Formula 1 Eni Magyar Nagydíj 2012

[niky]

He's definitely got talent. You need it it be the youngest ever to score points, to qualify on pole, to win and to win a championship. In that respect, he definitely goes on any "Top Fifty" list. But the issue of wheel-to-wheel racecraft is, I agree, a good reason to demote him below Alonso. Or even Hamilton, for that matter.

 

[Grand Prix]

10th? I'd put Alonso in the top five, easy.

If four current drivers are on the list... that means Kimi made it ahead of Alonso. An arguable choice. Kimi might have the advantage in raw speed or skill, but Alonso has proven himself more adaptable and more tactical than the Iceman.

That's one of the nine down. Then there's Schumacher (obviously), Fangio, Lauda, Stewart, Prost, Mansell and Senna. I can see Alonso going two or three places up into that group.

But there's one more... and no familiar names come to mind. Who am I missing?

Unless they made a mistake counting and five current drivers are on the list... in which case, they may have promoted Vettel over Alonso, as well. Also a questionable choice, though there's no denying Sebastian is a brilliantly quick qualifier.

Yes, it's missing Clark, Graham Hill, Nuvolari, Caracciola, Varzi, Rosemeyer, Rindt, Andretti, Ascari, Brabham, Moss and Gilles Villeneuve. Although, I realize this isn't a top ten list anymore.

 

[SagarisGTB]

For instance, I'm certain if he were in Indy, or the BTCC, or DTM, he wouldnt have half the success he has now, because he simply cant deal with traffic. In a field where cars are mostly similar, if he wasnt on the front row, he would have problems.

Vettel would be a great rally driver, out by himself all day. Introduce some overtaking? You can find much better overtakers than Vettel. Even in his own team.

Really? Really? A talent like Vettel wouldn't have half his success against lesser talented drivers in other series because he's not the best overtaker in F1 right now? He wouldn't have to overtake guys like Alonso or Hamilton in BTCC or DTM you know.

This anti-vettel movement is really driving you guys mad.

 

[Bye Ya]

Really? Really? A talent like Vettel wouldn't have half his success against lesser talented drivers in other series because he's not the best overtaker in F1 right now? He wouldn't have to overtake guys like Alonso or Hamilton in BTCC or DTM you know.

This anti-vettel movement is really driving you guys mad.

I think you are overreacting to his comment. Perhaps you should also reread the context it was made in. Although I agree that saying he "can't deal with traffic" is an exaggeration.

 

[hawkeye122]

Really? Really? A talent like Vettel wouldn't have half his success against lesser talented drivers in other series because he's not the best overtaker in F1 right now? He wouldn't have to overtake guys like Alonso or Hamilton in BTCC or DTM you know.

This anti-vettel movement is really driving you guys mad.

I'm not Anti-Vettel. I'm just saying he shouldnt be in a top 10 list of best F1 drivers.
The guy has skill, I know that. But you have to admit that at least a PORTION of the last few years have been down to the car.

Example: Prost-Senna, Sure they had the best cars for a time, but even when they didnt, they still had something... they still had the ability to go hard AND win, no matter what they were driving.

And the only guy in this F1 field who has done that this year is Alonso. In fact, he's the only one who has done so consistently for the past few years. He doesn't have the fastest car, but still gets at least one win in a season. He is fairly consistent, unlike Hamilton who either has bad luck, or is impatient (Or both) or Button, who doesnt scrap as hard as Alonso or Lewis.

Lewis is good too. But at the beginning of this year he had the best car, and he was out of contention because of his team. Last year he was able to consistently better Vettel in what was pretty much the inferior car. But the car itself was still miles ahead of the field.

Put Vettel in a Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, or Toleman for a year- You'll see that he isn't as special as everyone claims he is.

As much as I hate to say it... Alonso IS the driver to have right now.




"He wouldn't have to overtake guys like Alonso or Hamilton in BTCC or DTM you know. "

Meaning what? Sure, he could get pole occasionally, but I can almost assure you that if he messed up his start, or Priaulx/Ekstrom/Rockenfeller/Plato/Collard got creative going into turn 1, Vettel wouldnt see clear air for the rest of the race.
Just because you aren't in F1 doesnt mean you suck at driving. David Brabham, Allan McNish, Alex Wurz, and Anthony Davidson got kicked out of F1, and they still are the best drivers in LMP1.



My "Can't deal with traffic" is an exaggeration. But in that context, I still think it holds true next to the drivers mentioned above.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'm not Anti-Vettel. I'm just saying he shouldnt be in a top 10 list of best F1 drivers.
The guy has skill, I know that. But you have to admit that at least a PORTION of the last few years have been down to the car.

Example: Prost-Senna, Sure they had the best cars for a time, but even when they didnt, they still had something... they still had the ability to go hard AND win, no matter what they were driving.

And the only guy in this F1 field who has done that this year is Alonso. In fact, he's the only one who has done so consistently for the past few years. He doesn't have the fastest car, but still gets at least one win in a season. He is fairly consistent, unlike Hamilton who either has bad luck, or is impatient (Or both) or Button, who doesnt scrap as hard as Alonso or Lewis.

Lewis is good too. But at the beginning of this year he had the best car, and he was out of contention because of his team. Last year he was able to consistently better Vettel in what was pretty much the inferior car. But the car itself was still miles ahead of the field.

Put Vettel in a Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, or Toleman for a year- You'll see that he isn't as special as everyone claims he is.

As much as I hate to say it... Alonso IS the driver to have right now.

I would agree that Vettel isn't in the top 10 yet, that I can agree with, but not completely with your reasoning why.

Though Vettel has yet to win consistently without the best car, he also has yet to have a poor car for a consistent amount of time. His time at Torro Rosso he had a mid-field car, and he acquitted himself very well then, even winning in extreme circumstances. Not all that different to Senna. Senna never won in a Toleman for instance and arguably had the best car for all of his championships.

And I would agree that Alonso is the best in F1 right now, no arguments there, but Vettel is surely one of the top 3 or 4 drivers in the field, which is not something to make little of and you don't get there without being able to drive in traffic. His place in history is still to be determined.

"He wouldn't have to overtake guys like Alonso or Hamilton in BTCC or DTM you know. "

Meaning what? Sure, he could get pole occasionally, but I can almost assure you that if he messed up his start, or Priaulx/Ekstrom/Rockenfeller/Plato/Collard got creative going into turn 1, Vettel wouldnt see clear air for the rest of the race.
Just because you aren't in F1 doesnt mean you suck at driving. David Brabham, Allan McNish, Alex Wurz, and Anthony Davidson got kicked out of F1, and they still are the best drivers in LMP1.

My "Can't deal with traffic" is an exaggeration. But in that context, I still think it holds true next to the drivers mentioned above.

And what makes you believe Vettel wouldn't be able to cut it there? There's a huge difference with what you can do in F1 compared to closed wheel racing, especially touring cars. Less downforce and less dirty air means it's easier to follow cars and easier to overtake, outside F1 (outside of DRS). Also, contact is less of an issue in touring cars, slight touches are ok, so you can get away with less clean moves. I think you've got an exaggerated impression of the skills your touring car heroes have compared to top F1 pilots, that just because they overtake more often, doesn't mean they are better at it. Just because Vettel is average in traffic compared to other F1 drivers, doesn't mean he would struggle in tin-tops. I would say his natural talent would shine through in any discipline.

There's a reason most non-F1 drivers never made F1. Most of the time, they just weren't fast enough, not skilled enough. Think about it, some of the best in LMP are ex-F1 drivers. Makes sense that drivers who could make/almost make F1 are better than most who never got an F1 seat. Heidfeld is doing his first year in LMP and is already one of the best drivers in LMP1. Unfortunately, there is no substitute for talent and money talks, so the talented go to F1. That's life. Not saying there isn't talent outside F1, there is, but there's a higher concentration of it in F1.

And it's funny you bring up sports car racing, because in sports car racing there is less wheel to wheel racing than F1. Vettel would probably be suited very well to endurance racing, running stints at a fast pace, only lapping cars along the way for the most part.

 

[niky]

Question is... where to place Vettel in that list? If Hamilton manages a 15th, would Vettel be at 16th? 20th? Or even 14th?

 

[hawkeye122]

I would agree that Vettel isn't in the top 10 yet, that I can agree with, but not completely with your reasoning why.

Though Vettel has yet to win consistently without the best car, he also has yet to have a poor car for a consistent amount of time. His time at Torro Rosso he had a mid-field car, and he acquitted himself very well then, even winning in extreme circumstances. Not all that different to Senna. Senna never won in a Toleman for instance and arguably had the best car for all of his championships.

I think you missed the Toleman thing... it was a play on the fact that Lotus(Or whatever) have changed their name a million times. I used their first name.
You are right, he had a success in the Torro Rosso. Once.

Running with this line of thought....
When the McLaren stopped dominating with unstoppable performance (Sort of like... ermm.... Red Bull?) Senna kept winning. He kept at it, until he moved to Williams, in a vastly inferior car.
Meanwhile, it still seems that Vettel cant make up alot of places from his qualifying position...

And I would agree that Alonso is the best in F1 right now, no arguments there, but Vettel is surely one of the top 3 or 4 drivers in the field, which is not something to make little of and you don't get there without being able to drive in traffic. His place in history is still to be determined.
And what makes you believe Vettel wouldn't be able to cut it there? There's a huge difference with what you can do in F1 compared to closed wheel racing, especially touring cars. Less downforce and less dirty air means it's easier to follow cars in front and easier to overtake outside F1 (outside of DRS). Also, contact is less of an issue in touring cars, slight touches are ok, so you can get away with less clean moves. I think you've got an exaggerated impression of the skills your touring car heroes have compared to top F1 pilots, that just because they overtake more often, doesn't mean they are better at it. Just because Vettel is average in traffic compared to other F1 drivers, doesn't mean he would struggle in tin-tops. I would say his natural talent would shine through in any discipline.

F1 cars are harder to make overtakes in, and yet, Hamilton, Webber, Alonso and such manage just fine. They do much more passing than Vettel.

Thats not what I'm saying. Although I reckon he might... see the next section
Sounds a bit "Fanboy" to me... The only person I can think of to have managed that is Villeneuve.

There's a reason most non-F1 drivers never made F1. Most of the time, they just weren't fast enough, not skilled enough. Think about it, some of the best in LMP are ex-F1 drivers. Makes sense that drivers who could make/almost make F1 are better than most who never got an F1 seat. Heidfeld is doing his first year in LMP and is already one of the best drivers in LMP1. Unfortunately, there is no substitute for talent and money talks, so the talented go to F1. That's life.

At the Race of Champions, Michael Schumacher mentioned that he lost an event because they had him use a Closed-wheel car.
"If I had been in the Buggy, I would have won. I'm better at open-wheel driving"

I'm gonna roll with this ROC thing for a minute...

2005- Loeb
2006- Ekstrom
2007- Ekstrom (Beating Schumacher in the process)
2008- Loeb (Over Coulthard)
2009- Ekstrom
2010- Filipe Albuquerque(Who beat Vettel in the Semi-Final, and Loeb in the final)
2011- Sebastien Ogier(Beat Kristensen, who in the Semi-Finals beat Schumacher, and before that, Button)

So if we are to believe that the ROC is a fair representation of how good a driver is (It probably isnt), we can see that the "best" drivers are Touring Car and Rally aces. Not F1 drivers.*

*Except the team competition... Dont worry about that, Germany doesnt win with Schumacher and Vettel for 5 of those....


I'm not sold on WEC drivers being "Worse" than F1 drivers. Perhaps their style of driving suits a Closed-wheel car better. Same with Touring Car drivers.

And it's funny you bring up sports car racing, because in sports car racing there is less wheel to wheel racing than F1. Vettel would probably be suited very well to endurance racing, running stints at a fast pace, only lapping cars along the way for the most part.

I was thinking the same thing... but one thought came to mind...

"You really wouldn't want him to be in the car at the start... Or after a caution"

I'm totally happy with having a friendly discussion about this.

 

[SilverArrow]

Running with this line of thought....
When the McLaren stopped dominating with unstoppable performance (Sort of like... ermm.... Red Bull?) Senna kept winning. He kept at it, until he moved to Williams, in a vastly inferior car.
Meanwhile, it still seems that Vettel cant make up alot of places from his qualifying position...

That Williams was not "vastly inferior", Senna qualified on pole for the first race and spun off and his team mate finished 2nd. It was mostly his fault he didn't score any points in the first 2 races.

I also don't understand this whole Vettel can't overtake thing. How can you expect him to overtake anyone when his car is so slow in a straight line. Look at China, he needed DRS just to keep up with Raikkonen on the straights. He has made some good passes too, like going around the outside of Rosberg in Australia and the overtake on Alonso at Monza last year. He hasn't exactly had many opportunities to prove his overtaking skill because he keeps qualifying on pole. Pretty obvious if you start on pole and lap faster than anyone else you won't be doing overtaking...

 

[Blaze_409]

What is all this comparing apples to oranges??

There is no accurate way to compare Vettel to a Senna etc.
Its a matter of times.

Vettel drives a car with severe straightline speed issues. Even with the help of DRS.
It does not mean he's any less of a double world champion because this season he is struggling. These cars are so aero dependent compared to the cars of Senna day. You cant follow guys nowadays like they back then. The only cars that DRS didnt help is the Red Bull. How can he be expected to pass anyone when he can't go fast dow the straights even with DRS. Has failing Alternators, Broken Kers most of the time!

Apples to oranges.
How can you argue that Vettel can't do this or can't do that.

He's not jsut racing a bunch of gick and harries....With tires and all etc. There is no point in htese comparisons Hawkeye.

Similar to the way that You cannot compare a Novak Djokovic/Federer/Nadal to a McEnroe, Borg, Laver, Sampras.

What is the point? These are all pointless comparisons.

We dont know How Senna would fare in a modern F1 car. We dont know how Vettel or Alonso would fare in an old Lotus. For all we know look at Schumi in the modern F1 car....But that is also a point less comparison.

Rod Laver played with a wooden tennis racket for god sakes. Look at the carbon fibre gizmos they swing with ultra sytnthetic strings in 2012.

Once again its pointless to compare Vettel to those guys of the past.

What the heck do you guys know about overtaking in old f1 vs nowadays .

You think its suppose to be EASY for Vettel to overtake a Fernando Alonso??! or a Mark Webber?? The toughest guy to overtake in F1 prior to the DRS era.
Well you guys got another thing coming lol.

How can we say that these guys even drove the same types of Cars?
Todays F1 cars make Sennas car look like a LMP2 car thats heavier.

The cars of today are so vastly superior in every way to Senna's F1 car. He might as well have been driving an F3 car! So now you see that its like they're not even in the same series.


Your right Vettel is not on the same list as them. He's not in the Top tn. He's not even in the list! Because that list is outdated as are those drivers prost, hill, senna etc.

The proper place for him is a new list of greatest f1 drivers of all time with guys like Alonso and Schumi, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Button that has ana effective cut off date of early 2000's and onwards.

They are playing a different sport in the Senna era vs the Vettel Era. Its incomparable.

Its like saying Kobe Bryant needs to go on a list for greatest basketball player but behind Roger Federer the arguably greatest tennis player to ever live. Doesn't make sense. Sure the concept is there that tey drove high horsepower cars but the downforce, tires, engines etc. Completely different sport.

 

[hawkeye122]

I cant find a way to put my point into words... My shotgun arguments (Throw a bunch of them out there, maybe one will hit) didnt work either. I'll come back to it when I've figured out how to say what I'm trying to say...
So yes, I was wrong.

Anyways. How about that tight Karthikeyan-de la Rosa fight?

 

[Grand Prix]

It's very hard to sort a list of the top 20 drivers because some were let down by their machinery, others had their careers cut short by death, unfortunately. We can look back and say they were great drivers though. No question that to drive fast in the '30s, '50s and '60s was very impressive, but to win against similar titans was something else entirely.


Who knows how many championships Ascari, Clark, Villeneuve and Senna had in them if not for tragic circumstances? And you also have people like Moss who was stubbornly nationalistic, and chose to drive slower British cars most of the time. A great character though, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he said something along the lines of "...if I'm the man they want to beat, that works for me"


I'd put Vettel in the top 20, but like I said, very difficult to order the list.

 

[gorsad]

Anyways. How about that tight Karthikeyan-de la Rosa fight?

Karthikeyan all the way

 

[Blaze_409]

Its a completely different sport that just happens to have the same name from Clark, Senna Ascari, Fangio era. Just because the sport has the same name does not mean you can just lump the comparisons.

 

[United6694]

How about Mike Hawthron?

Personally I think that Vettel and Hamilton are overrated

 

[peter_vod69]

Its a completely different sport that just happens to have the same name from Clark, Senna Ascari, Fangio era. Just because the sport has the same name does not mean you can just lump the comparisons.

Why not?

 

[RTSolvalou]

As far as I'm concerned, Hungary has a similar layout and corner sequence to Germany, but I like Hungaroring much more.

I think the Saubers and Lotii will be stronger here, I'd say the slower corners (compared to Germany track) will be good for Lotus' early power/grip, and the track in general offering good move opportunities for Sauber.

 

[Grand Prix]

It's ridiculous to compare Nuvolari's and Alonso's driving styles, for example. The cars are very different and require different techniques to drive quickly. Another thing is, Caracciola would just get confused by Rosberg's steering wheel at first. On the other hand, it's really difficult to imagine any of today's drivers 4 wheel drifting a 250F at the Nordschleife for 3 hours. Very different skill sets.


We can look back at how they fared to their competitors though. Fangio, Schumacher, Caracciola, Senna, and Prost dominated their eras. Then you have people like Moss, Nuvolari and Villeneuve who dragged crap cars to a win. Could rank Alosno with that group maybe, just for funzies.

 

[peter_vod69]

As far as I'm concerned, Hungary has a similar layout and corner sequence to Germany, but I like Hungaroring much more.

I think the Saubers and Lotii will be stronger here, I'd say the slower corners (compared to Germany track) will be good for Lotus' early power/grip, and the track in general offering good move opportunities for Sauber.

Hungaroring is a much more interesting track than the generic, emasculated Hockenheim. It's got big elevation changes, and generally a lot more character. In the past it hasn't made for brilliant racing, but it did last year, and it should again this year.

I think Lotus will, yet again, be less than impressive, Williams will be back amongst it, and Webber will dice with Alonso for the win.

 

[Ra1kkoneN]

I might a bit biased because I support Raikkonen, but in my opinion he is close to the level of Alonso. People in the media often say Raikkonen is lazy and not a good developer of a car, but people at McLaren and Ferrari are still talking about how good he was at what he did. His raw speed is amazing too. Don't forget he had a break of two years before driving this season. His pace and form really suprises me. Listen to this interview with Rob Wilson (at 22:15):

 

[Anghammarad]

It is quite clear that Alonso is at the peak of his powers at the moment. He has matured as a person and now have the experience so judge his actions to perfection. He also doesnt seem to make any mistakes whatsoever anymore. When it comes to raw talent however I would rank the current drivers thus;
1. Räikkönen
2. Vettel
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Grosjean

And as complete racers;
1. Alonso
2. Räikkönen
3. Button
4. Hamilton
5. Vettel

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

I might a bit biased because I support Raikkonen, but in my opinion he is close to the level of Alonso. People in the media often say Raikkonen is lazy and not a good developer of a car, but people at McLaren and Ferrari are still talking about how good he was at what he did. His raw speed is amazing too. Don't forget he had a break of two years before driving this season. His pace and form really suprises me. Listen to this interview with Rob Wilson (at 22:15):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae6GdU544S8">YouTube Link</a>

This +1

(A Raikkonen fan here too)

But seriously, I think the media exaggerate on the criticisms of Raikkonen, because he's still, no doubt, one of the top drivers of this era now, especially due to his viscerally raw speed (along with Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, Alonso and perhaps Button)

Actually I think this problem (of exaggerated criticisms) also applies to everyone else too(like on Vettel's overtaking skills or Schumacher's pace after returning to F1)

After all, there must be a reason why all of them are racing in the top tier of motorsport in the first place...

 

[PeterJB]

The main issue with Raikkonen is that, while he is extremely fast, it's as if he doesn't care. He has a completely blank expression, zero charisma, and gets bored with it all too quickly. A year of WRC, followed by a year of NASCAR, and then back to F1 again.

When you have drivers with such apparently variable abilities when put in different machines it's easy to forget that they are all the best drivers in the world. Even with Karthikeyan, he may be the slowest driver currently on the grid, but he has bags of experience from a career spanning 20 years in a huge variety of categories, and does have the honour of essentially being the world's fastest Indian. And he remains humble about it, whereas people like Alonso clearly love themselves.

I would really love see all the drivers in the same car one day, or maybe get the Red Bulls to swap with the HRTs for a single test for example.

This year Vettel's starts haven't been as good a before, and the car clearly isn't a fast as last year. He made several good passes at Spain, and his speed at Valencia was mind-blowing. Thanks to the tyre degradation that all drivers are victim too, his only real opportunity to pass Alonso at Germany was disrupted by Hamilton. He stuck with Webber for most of Silverstone, and was catching Alonso at a rate of knots near the end. Interestingly enough, if he hadn't got the puncture at Malaysia, or broken down at Valencia, he'd be tied on points with Alonso.

 

[hornet_burnout]

I consider Kimi a diamond in the rough. And a huge one...

Once he gets winning... and thus adds motivation to his natural talent, he can become one of the greats, the kind that dominates a sport for years.

 

[Blaze_409]

Kubica!!

Grosjean is good but Kubica and Raikkonen at Lotus would have been magical!

He debuted in Hungary for BMW Sauber!

 

[Dotini]

It is quite clear that Alonso is at the peak of his powers at the moment. He has matured as a person and now have the experience so judge his actions to perfection. He also doesnt seem to make any mistakes whatsoever anymore. When it comes to raw talent however I would rank the current drivers thus;
1. Räikkönen
2. Vettel
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Grosjean

And as complete racers;
1. Alonso
2. Räikkönen
3. Button
4. Hamilton
5. Vettel

When I began following racing in the 50's, and since then, it is almost universal among drivers and motor racing correspondents that Juan Manuel Fangio has been held in the highest esteem. That was due not only to his pace and winning statistics, but also to his gentlemanly qualities, approach to safety and to the respect in which he held other drivers and spectators. As a consequence, he has been universally admired. (I have admired Jackie Stewart for these same reasons.)

Today, Fernando Alonso alone approaches that lofty standard. He does not push other drivers off the track like Schumacher, etc., and he does not whine and whimper into early retirements like Hamilton. He is truly today's most complete F1 driver. With his consistency of pace and finishing, and most of all in the calmness and strength of character he exhibits, he stands like a giant among pygmies, or a lion amongst jackals. But of course, as the great Graham Hill once ruefully remarked, it's always possible for a racer to go "from a gentleman to a twit in a fifth of a second".

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[niky]

Fortunately, Alonso's twit moments usually happen off the track.

 

[Blaze_409]

Fernando Alonso has had his share of driving people off track and being very un gentleman like with his teammates (Hamilton and Massa).

I could go on but I dont have it out for the guy. But he is not as flawless in character as suggested.

His driving is great but the rest of him is questionable. Alguersuari said he was just plain cold to the other Spanish drivers. Fernando Alonso is by definition an Elitist. He thinks he is owed certain honor like telling his teammate to gtf out the way. Similar to Schumacher. He is also known for being passive agressive in the press/ media stuff.

All drivers have there flaws. That doesnt meant Alonso won't win this champion and get paid the highest salary in F1 so he is where he is because of his personality.

So you don't have to exactly be all good and dandy to win an F1 WDC.

Vettel can be a sore loser
Webber can be "#2 driver"
everyone is just full of character good or bad.

 

[Blaze_409]

I think that in this era of Pirelli tires it will take a different kind of driver to be the greatest.

Whereas Hamilton was touted as one of the best when the tires where basically indestructible, which suited his aggressive driving style, now he is struggling. The target for best driver is constantly moving.
We can only really say that Alonso without doubt was the best driver of those seasons where he won his two WC's. and of 2012 as well.

Look back to when Hamilton was teammates with Alonso. Hamilton was such trouble and a match for Alonso that he had to be more creative in getting the upper hand...This was when the tires were not as fragile as today. Then of course there are all the drivers over the years that have struggle with different specifications of tires from grooved mihelins, bridgestones to slicks and narrower fronts etc.

It seem highly arbitrary to call someone the greatest F1 driver of all time because all he was really able to do was master the car and tires etc in that time period. The specs of the modern F1 car where constantly changing and it suited certain drivers. Vettel was particularly more devastating than Webber in the blow-diffuser era because his driving style relied on not having that entry vs Webber who proably has adifferent driving style. If the tires were not so fragile Hamilton would be in strong contention for the championship as his driving style is better suited to the tougher tires. There are just way too many anomalies in Formula One to make any kind of cross generation let alone 2-3 years comparisons.

 

[gorsad]

Well, I wouldn't exactly say Hamilton is struggling, but he definitely can't be aggressive like in 2007-2010.