Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021Formula 1

[GroupB]

I'm actually a little upset (though not surprised) that Ferrari and McLaren aren't protesting the race results, too. While I imagine that Ferrari in particular don't want to do anything that could benefit Mercedes, the call at the end of the race did screw over one of each teams drivers from achieving a better result.

I’m surprised there isn’t more outrage about Sainz being denied a chance at the race win. He should have been right on Max’s gearbox, waiting to pounce when the two title contenders started battling each other.
By the same token, Max would have been forced to defend his position from the chasing pack right on his tail, rather than having a worry-free situation from which to solely focus on attacking his helpless victim.

 

[Grayfox]

Lewis doesn’t need a teammate to surrender positions.

Max sure as hell needed one to defend and cover pit stops though. Such a wonderful driver!!

Lewis needed Bottas to cover as well and when max past Bottas, Bottas was driving slow and to the side to let Lewis through.

 

[McLaren]

Oh, absolutely. However, I've generally noticed that those kinds of individuals tend to hold Hamilton to a double-standard anyways, so they'd look for any excuse to take a dump on him, regardless. Of course, they don't realize that what happened to Hamilton 100% could happen to their preferred driver if they were in the same situation.

I'm actually a little upset (though not surprised) that Ferrari and McLaren aren't protesting the race results, too. While I imagine that Ferrari in particular don't want to do anything that could benefit Mercedes, the call at the end of the race did screw over one of each teams drivers from achieving a better result.

Ferrari would only protest if it had cost Sainz 3rd.

But next year Lewis wont have a Slave to "Surrender" positions without question.

Because Red Bull totally hasn't thrown Checo under the bus as much as Valtteri was, lol.

 

[Sum1s2pid]

Russell has already shown that he's more than willing to sacrifice own his race if it meant a teammate and the team benefited. I look forward to seeing if his defense can be as robust as Perez's was Sunday, 'cause that was damn good stuff.

 

[Imari]

Lewis doesn’t need a teammate to surrender positions.

Max sure as hell needed one to defend and cover pit stops though. Such a wonderful driver!!

Don't get salty because it's a team sport. Every driver has an entire freaking factory of engineers and strategists behind them. In no way is a championship ever an entirely individual achievement, and getting help from your teammate doesn't take away anything from the skill needed to win a championship over a season.

Using your second driver to help the first win is arguably just good strategy, if you're not doing that can you really say that you did everything you could to win? We've seen a lot of teammates giving tows in qualifying and the race and that's considered legitimate strategy I think. Why is putting up a particularly spirited defense on the track in a way that is intended to aid a teammate not valid?

 

[pumaATTACK]

Don't get salty because it's a team sport. Every driver has an entire freaking factory of engineers and strategists behind them. In no way is a championship ever an entirely individual achievement, and getting help from your teammate doesn't take away anything from the skill needed to win a championship over a season.

Using your second driver to help the first win is arguably just good strategy, if you're not doing that can you really say that you did everything you could to win? We've seen a lot of teammates giving tows in qualifying and the race and that's considered legitimate strategy I think. Why is putting up a particularly spirited defense on the track in a way that is intended to aid a teammate not valid?

Read GrayFoxes comments to see why I made mine. I know teammates are important

 

[Keef]

I posted this elsewhere but it looks like the real discussion is happening here so I'll quote myself.

I'm getting really annoyed by British people and media in particular and how miffed they are about the stewards and final events of Abu Dhabi.

I'm not a big soccer fan but I do know that the "extra time" thing is a ridiculously ref-biased construction and the entire concept of it is unfair. I know British folks don't watch American sports very often - football and basketball in particular - but refs aren't perfect, they make poor calls all the time, they miss calls, they can literally sway the momentum of a game. They even do "make-up calls" every now and then where they know they missed something so now they call things aggressively to try and fix a prior mistake. Refs and stewards do influence the game or race with every call they make.

But here's the bottom line: If a single call can throw your game, you didn't play hard enough. That's what Abu Dhabi came down to, a single call. Merc had not built a lead that could withstand a few made free throws in the final seconds, they couldn't absorb that pass interference or holding call on the final down. They had zero margin for error, and they pissed that margin away long before the final safety car and steward decisions. Mercedes did the thing that drives us Americans insane while watching football and basketball - they didn't keep playing to win, they started playing not to lose. It doesn't work. Meanwhile, RB and Max were playing to win. They knew that a single call could throw the game in their favor, and they were ready to pounce on the opportunity.

The stewards had nothing to do with this result. The fact is that Mercedes put themselves in a situation where a single call could lose them the race, and that's what happened, and Red Bull was right there to pounce on the opportunity. I don't know what you guys watched but what I watched was two cutthroat competitors duke it out on the final lap with the equipment their teams gave them, and the better combination won out. Merc even had the track position, they had it all race long, and still managed to lose, how do you explain that? Actually I should be more specific - Hamilton, the Queen of England, and his engineer lost the race. Merc still won the constructor title, they still out-averaged RB all year, credit to Bottas not Hamilton. This was Hamilton's loss. This was England's loss. They didn't play hard enough. Deal with it.

I know very well what it's like to lose a game. As a Buckeyes fan, my team just lost a game way more important than any championship just two weeks ago. It's the one game that we spend the entire year mentally and physically preparing for. We - and by we I don't mean the players, or the team, or the school, I mean the entire state of Ohio - assumed this game was a foregone conclusion because Michigan had lost their drive and didn't believe in themselves anymore after losing for a decade straight. The team feeds off the fans, and the fans thought we had it in the bag, just like Mercedes did for most of this race. But we didn't, and neither did Mercedes. Complaining doesn't fix it. Playing a better game next time is what fixes it.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I posted this elsewhere but it looks like the real discussion is happening here so I'll quote myself.


I know very well what it's like to lose a game. As a Buckeyes fan, my team just lost a game way more important than any championship just two weeks ago. It's the one game that we spend the entire year mentally and physically preparing for. We - and by we I don't mean the players, or the team, or the school, I mean the entire state of Ohio - assumed this game was a foregone conclusion because Michigan had lost their drive and didn't believe in themselves anymore after losing for a decade straight. The team feeds off the fans, and the fans thought we had it in the bag, just like Mercedes did for most of this race. But we didn't, and neither did Mercedes. Complaining doesn't fix it. Playing a better game next time is what fixes it.

I would agree, but Masi did kind of take a dump on the rules. My main question is are these great racing ideas coming from his head or is it coming from his bosses.

 

[O604]

I posted this elsewhere but it looks like the real discussion is happening here so I'll quote myself.


I know very well what it's like to lose a game. As a Buckeyes fan, my team just lost a game way more important than any championship just two weeks ago. It's the one game that we spend the entire year mentally and physically preparing for. We - and by we I don't mean the players, or the team, or the school, I mean the entire state of Ohio - assumed this game was a foregone conclusion because Michigan had lost their drive and didn't believe in themselves anymore after losing for a decade straight. The team feeds off the fans, and the fans thought we had it in the bag, just like Mercedes did for most of this race. But we didn't, and neither did Mercedes. Complaining doesn't fix it. Playing a better game next time is what fixes it.

10 seconds is big lead in F1. Red Bull "need a miracle". They got a miracle. Then they did something unprecedented in F1 by letting cars pass to set up a Netflix promo shot.

 

[kungtotte_]

I posted this elsewhere but it looks like the real discussion is happening here so I'll quote myself.


I know very well what it's like to lose a game. As a Buckeyes fan, my team just lost a game way more important than any championship just two weeks ago. It's the one game that we spend the entire year mentally and physically preparing for. We - and by we I don't mean the players, or the team, or the school, I mean the entire state of Ohio - assumed this game was a foregone conclusion because Michigan had lost their drive and didn't believe in themselves anymore after losing for a decade straight. The team feeds off the fans, and the fans thought we had it in the bag, just like Mercedes did for most of this race. But we didn't, and neither did Mercedes. Complaining doesn't fix it. Playing a better game next time is what fixes it.

As has been brought up several times in this thread already, Mercedes were hamstrung somewhat by the fact that they have had several negative experiences this year racing closely with Max and a lot of their options in this race came down to having to make Lewis race closely with Max. Even in this very race we saw the dirty lunge on lap 1, we had the brake check and prior dirty lunge in Jeddah, there was the complete shenanigans of the Brazilian T4 incident where Max skated completely on the consequences.

So Mercedes pits Lewis for fresh tyres and now he's back the road racing Max again, what happens? Is it a clean race to the end or does another incident like those ones occur? What is the outcome of the stewards investigation? Do you gamble on the stewards finally making a good call or do you try to avoid it? Add to this the fact that Max also becomes the champion even if both of them DNF and it's a risky proposition for Mercedes.

 

[McLaren]

I posted this elsewhere but it looks like the real discussion is happening here so I'll quote myself.

And you'd be off base. The lead you claim Mercedes didn't build was in-fact there with the 5 lapped cars. The rules go one way or the other: finish under SC to allow lapped cars to resort themselves or the race restarts with Max behind 5 cars. The Race Director decided to make up a ruling that favored Max & no one else.

You wanna make a comparison of American sports; the Bucks are up 5 with :01 on the clock, and foul the Nets' Durant on a layup-basket to get an 'And-1' at the free throw line. Except the refs let Durant shoot 2 baskets instead of 1 to make it a 1-point game, Nets get the ball back instead of the Bucks at half-court, & add 5 seconds to the clock for the Nets to get the win on a final possession through a basket. And the excuse becomes, "Well, Adam Silver can over-rule the rulebook as Commissioner".

The simple idea of trying to compare a 2-team game to a 10-team one already sinks this discussion of both.

 

[GroupB]

Hindsight is also easy. If Mercedes took an unnecessary risk that paid off, they’d be heroes. But had an extra pit stop hurt them, they’d be seen as idiots who threw it all away unnecessarily.

 

[-Fred-]

Given how he's been all over the place all season long with dubious sanctions, I wouldn't be surprised to learn down the line a few years from now that Michael Masi pulled a Pete Rose.

I jest. But to see a championship race come down to something that's out of both drivers and teams' hands is a bit... anticlimactic, to say the least.

 

[Keef]

dirty lunge on lap 1...brake check...dirty lunge in Jeddah...Brazilian T4 incident

So Mercedes pits Lewis for fresh tyres and now he's back the road racing Max again, what happens? Is it a clean race to the end or does another incident like those ones occur? What is the outcome of the stewards investigation? Do you gamble on the stewards finally making a good call or do you try to avoid it? Add to this the fact that Max also becomes the champion even if both of them DNF and it's a risky proposition for Mercedes.

A "dirty lunge" which both drivers have been guilty of all season - it's not dirty, it's racing. A "brake check" which was not a brake check, it was slowing down to highway speeds and Hamilton refusing to do what he was supposed to do - pass a slower car as racing drivers are wont to do. Again with the "dirty lunge" which isn't dirty but is racing. And the shenanigans you saw in Brazil I assume was the Max-being-ahead-before-the-apex that I saw in Brazil. I'm not sure what the car on the outside is supposed to do other than go off the track - being at the mercy of the car on the inside is the risk you take when trying to pass on the outside. Both drivers have been on both ends of these arguments at various points during the season so it's odd that you're only pinning them to Max.

As for strategy, all Mercedes had to do is give Ham better tires. Simple as that. Hamilton already had the pace - if Latifi's spin and SC never happened, both drivers would've been on fresh tires and racing. That goes in Ham's favor because he had the pace. If Merc had pitted for softs expecting a shootout (like RB did) then they still would have been racing for the win on the same fresh softs. Point is, Merc missed two opportunities to put Ham on the same footing as Max and allow them to duke it out. RB took two extra pit stops and Merc had no response. That's not the ref's fault lol, that's Mercedes playing not to lose, rather than playing to win.

And you'd be off base. The lead you claim Mercedes didn't build was in-fact there with the 5 lapped cars. The rules go one way or the other: finish under SC to allow lapped cars to resort themselves or the race restarts with Max behind 5 cars. The Race Director decided to make up a ruling that favored Max & no one else.

You wanna make a comparison of American sports; the Bucks are up 5 with :01 on the clock, and foul the Nets' Durant on a layup-basket to get an 'And-1' at the free throw line. Except the refs let Durant shoot 2 baskets instead of 1 to make it a 1-point game, Nets get the ball back instead of the Bucks at half-court, & add 5 seconds to the clock for the Nets to get the win on a final possession through a basket. And the excuse becomes, "Well, Adam Silver can over-rule the rulebook as Commissioner".

The simple idea of trying to compare a 2-team game to a 10-team one already sinks this discussion of both.

The rule book doesn't say all cars have to pass the safety car which is the argument RB presented and the stewards agreed with. At the very beginning of the season, one of the stipulations all the teams agreed to was that this year all the races would end on green. Both of these rules were met. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Any and all", a common legal term because "any" doesn't mean "all" and vice versa. The regulation about allowing lapped cars to pass the safety car doesn't say "any and all".

Ultimately, the situation we were left with was two drivers sat in the equipment their teams gave them and one lap to go. This did not favor Max at all - he was in second place. Arguing that it somehow favors the guy who isn't winning is ridiculous. Hamilton had the race in the bag.

Or at least he would have if his team gave him the same quality of equipment as RB gave Max. Mercedes failed to plan accordingly. And I don't see how it could be argued that they couldn't risk it - RB saw fit to take two extra pit stops and lose over ten seconds of track time, just in case there was a shootout. You're telling me Merc never even considered the idea that there might be a shootout? They never considered the idea that, tire for tire Ham had the faster car all race long so even if he was in second during a shootout he had a good chance of passing?

People didn't get the result they wanted so they're blaming the refs, ignoring the fact that Merc played a bad game.

Hindsight is also easy. If Mercedes took an unnecessary risk that paid off, they’d be heroes. But had an extra pit stop hurt them, they’d be seen as idiots who threw it all away unnecessarily.

Unfortunately, now they look like idiots who are trying to blame the refs for their own mistakes. You gotta play the game during the game, not after it's over.

 

[McLaren]

A "dirty lunge" which both drivers have been guilty of all season - it's not dirty, it's racing. A "brake check" which was not a brake check, it was slowing down to highway speeds and Hamilton refusing to do what he was supposed to do - pass a slower car as racing drivers are wont to do. Again with the "dirty lunge" which isn't dirty but is racing. And the shenanigans you saw in Brazil I assume was the Max-being-ahead-before-the-apex that I saw in Brazil. I'm not sure what the car on the outside is supposed to do other than go off the track - being at the mercy of the car on the inside is the risk you take when trying to pass on the outside. Both drivers have been on both ends of these arguments at various points during the season so it's odd that you're only pinning them to Max.

As for strategy, all Mercedes had to do is give Ham better tires. Simple as that. Hamilton already had the pace - if Latifi's spin and SC never happened, both drivers would've been on fresh tires and racing. That goes in Ham's favor because he had the pace. If Merc had pitted for softs expecting a shootout (like RB did) then they still would have been racing for the win on the same fresh softs. Point is, Merc missed two opportunities to put Ham on the same footing as Max and allow them to duke it out. RB took two extra pit stops and Merc had no response. That's not the ref's fault lol, that's Mercedes playing not to lose, rather than playing to win.

The rule book doesn't say all cars have to pass the safety car which is the argument RB presented and the stewards agreed with. At the very beginning of the season, one of the stipulations all the teams agreed to was that this year all the races would end on green. Both of these rules were met. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Any and all", a common legal term because "any" doesn't mean "all" and vice versa. The regulation about allowing lapped cars to pass the safety car doesn't say "any and all".

Ultimately, the situation we were left with was two drivers sat in the equipment their teams gave them and one lap to go. This did not favor Max at all - he was in second place. Arguing that it somehow favors the guy who isn't winning is ridiculous. Hamilton had the race in the bag.

Or at least he would have if his team gave him the same quality of equipment as RB gave Max. Mercedes failed to plan accordingly. And I don't see how it could be argued that they couldn't risk it - RB saw fit to take two extra pit stops and lose over ten seconds of track time, just in case there was a shootout. You're telling me Merc never even considered the idea that there might be a shootout? They never considered the idea that, tire for tire Ham had the faster car all race long so even if he was in second during a shootout he had a good chance of passing?

People didn't get the result they wanted so they're blaming the refs, ignoring the fact that Merc played a bad game.

Unfortunately, now they look like idiots who are trying to blame the refs for their own mistakes. You gotta play the game during the game, not after it's over.

The rule book doesn't say all cars have to pass the safety car which is the argument RB presented and the stewards agreed with.

It actually does. Per Michael Masi:

"There is a requirement in the sporting regulations to pass ALL duplicate cars.

At the very beginning of the season, one of the stipulations all the teams agreed to was that this year all the races would end on green. Both of these rules were met.

Incorrect.

If Merc had pitted for softs expecting a shootout (like RB did) then they still would have been racing for the win on the same fresh softs. Point is, Merc missed two opportunities to put Ham on the same footing as Max and allow them to duke it out. RB took two extra pit stops and Merc had no response. That's not the ref's fault lol, that's Mercedes playing not to lose, rather than playing to win.

Ignores the fact that Mercedes were in the ideal situation of either scenario & pitting would jeopardize the win.

Pit with Max potentially taking the lead & the race either ends in a shootout with Lewis behind Max, or ends in a SC because of the lapped cars resulting in a loss. If Max does pit & stays behind, Lewis goes into a shootout with a hungry Max or Lewis manages a win through SC because of lapped cars.

Ultimately, the situation we were left with was two drivers sat in the equipment their teams gave them and one lap to go. This did not favor Max at all.

The mix-mash of SC rules that puts a guy on fresh softs against old hards for the final lap doesn't put Max in favor at all is delusion. You can just tell everyone you didn't watch the race instead of coming in here with these arguments.

Or at least he would have if his team gave him the same quality of equipment as RB gave Max. Mercedes failed to plan accordingly. And I don't see how it could be argued that they couldn't risk it - RB saw fit to take two extra pit stops and lose over ten seconds of track time, just in case there was a shootout. You're telling me Merc never even considered the idea that there might be a shootout? They never considered the idea that, tire for tire Ham had the faster car all race long so even if he was in second during a shootout he had a good chance of passing?

Once again, ignores the situation Merc. were in initially before the Race Director made up his own rules.

Race ends under SC with the lapped cars, Lewis automatically wins. Race ends under current order, Lewis has to hope Max doesn't get through 5 cars before the end of the lap, which plays heavily to his advantage.

People didn't get the result they wanted so they're blaming the refs, ignoring the fact that Merc played a bad game.

Nope. Lewis could've won regardless & it would not have changed the fact Michael Masi did not enforce the rules as they were defined.

If Max is allowed to have his 5 lapped cars removed between him & Lewis, everyone should & is allowed that same situation. Sainz could've literally lost his position to Yuki because he was held up by 2 lapped cars instead of having a clean track behind Max.

 

[Terronium-12]

I posted this elsewhere but it looks like the real discussion is happening here so I'll quote myself.

But here's the bottom line: If a single call can throw your game, you didn't play hard enough. That's what Abu Dhabi came down to, a single call. Merc had not built a lead that could withstand a few made free throws in the final seconds, they couldn't absorb that pass interference or holding call on the final down. They had zero margin for error, and they pissed that margin away long before the final safety car and steward decisions. Mercedes did the thing that drives us Americans insane while watching football and basketball - they didn't keep playing to win, they started playing not to lose. It doesn't work. Meanwhile, RB and Max were playing to win. They knew that a single call could throw the game in their favor, and they were ready to pounce on the opportunity.

The stewards had nothing to do with this result. The fact is that Mercedes put themselves in a situation where a single call could lose them the race, and that's what happened, and Red Bull was right there to pounce on the opportunity. I don't know what you guys watched but what I watched was two cutthroat competitors duke it out on the final lap with the equipment their teams gave them, and the better combination won out. Merc even had the track position, they had it all race long, and still managed to lose, how do you explain that? Actually I should be more specific - Hamilton, the Queen of England, and his engineer lost the race. Merc still won the constructor title, they still out-averaged RB all year, credit to Bottas not Hamilton. This was Hamilton's loss. This was England's loss. They didn't play hard enough. Deal with it.

This is utterly perplexing.

So your argument is that Mercedes hadn't built up enough of a lead to withstand or completely ignore the possibility of Verstappen threatening it. Would you be referring to the lead he, Verstappen, had no chance of threatening prior to being wiped out by the Safety Car, or the five car gap between himself and Hamilton that was wiped out because Masi played it fast and loose with the rules?

We're not talking about someone making a mistake or clerical error. This is someone, the Race Director taking it upon himself to change/modify a rule on-the-fly that benefitted one person and one person only: Max Verstappen. That's an insanely egregious "mistake" to make and not realize it. Had things played out as they should have, Hamilton would have won the race behind the SC, or Max could have tried weaving his way through the five cars — all of whom would have been blue flagged anyway — and raced for potentially the same result on brand-new soft tires.

What you're suggesting is that we're blaming Masi for playing a part in the decision...which is 100%, without question, exactly what he did.

You're asking what race it is that we watched but I have to ask: what race did you watch? Or did you happen to only catch the highlights and form an opinion from that? There's no way you're sitting there and thinking this is a "gotcha" moment.

 

[O604]

Some really good info in this. I learned a lot.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59643988

 

[Monkey Man]

Doubters need only look at the lead Max managed to gain in less than a lap after taking Lewis; those new slicks vs Lewis' old hards was chalk and cheese.

It's a bloody disgrace in my book. The result deserves to be overturned if ever there was a case for this AFAIC.

 

[Imari]

Read GrayFoxes comments to see why I made mine. I know teammates are important

Do you?

You say Hamilton doesn't need a teammate to surrender positions, even though that has absolutely happened.
You say with what can pretty easily be interpreted as sarcasm that Max is "such a wonderful driver!!" that he needs a teammate to defend, even though this has happened with both Bottas and Perez during the season. What tactics his team chooses to use to help him win the race has nothing to do with how good a driver Verstappen is.

It's been pretty clear for a long time now that Bottas' and Perez's roles in the title fight were to be tailgunners for Hamilton and Verstappen. I think @Grayfox is wrong, Russell is potentially fast enough to challenge Lewis early in the season but if Hamilton becomes the championship contender then Russell will perform exactly the same role as Bottas. Except he's likely to be less tetchy about it than Bottas was.

I think you need to get over this implied idea that Hamilton gets to where he is based mainly on his skill as a driver, and that Max is being carried by his team. The reality is that they're both pretty incredible drivers who are working with the two best teams on the grid to exploit every rule to it's fullest, and that includes using their teammates. It wasn't that long ago that team orders were banned, and they got rid of that rule for a good reason.

As has been brought up several times in this thread already, Mercedes were hamstrung somewhat by the fact that they have had several negative experiences this year racing closely with Max and a lot of their options in this race came down to having to make Lewis race closely with Max. Even in this very race we saw the dirty lunge on lap 1, we had the brake check and prior dirty lunge in Jeddah, there was the complete shenanigans of the Brazilian T4 incident where Max skated completely on the consequences.

So Mercedes pits Lewis for fresh tyres and now he's back the road racing Max again, what happens? Is it a clean race to the end or does another incident like those ones occur? What is the outcome of the stewards investigation? Do you gamble on the stewards finally making a good call or do you try to avoid it? Add to this the fact that Max also becomes the champion even if both of them DNF and it's a risky proposition for Mercedes.

Even with the benefit of hindsight, I think Mercedes made the best calls they could have with the situation given to them. Maybe if they'd done something different they'd have gotten a better result, but I think any other call comes with far more risk than just being in front and trying to hold Max off for a lap. It makes Max go for the move, and so even if it goes wrong and there's a crash it's more likely to be Max at fault.

People didn't get the result they wanted so they're blaming the refs, ignoring the fact that Merc played a bad game.

No. Whatever you think about the safety car shenanigans, Mercedes did not play a bad game. They made good decisions that put their driver in an excellent spot to take the win, and they got unlucky. Unfortunately, it was only partially the sort of random luck that makes sports great (Latifi crashing at a critical moment in the race) and mostly the sort of BS "luck" of the refs making a pretty bonkers decision with all precedent against it, a decision that ultimately decided the race and the championship.

I don't particularly care who won, I think Hamilton and Verstappen are both incredible drivers working for incredible teams. Either one is absolutely deserving of a world championship. I'm annoyed that the rules were changed mid-race, for reasons that are entirely inscrutable and have a heavy odour of favouritism. After a season with a bunch of dubious calls and weird double standards, this sort of clear break from any established procedure in order to set up a final lap in which one driver has a staggering advantage that was entirely due to luck is too much.

The "refs" absolutely deserve to be scrutinised for this, they did not behave in a reasonable manner.

 

[Samus]

one of the stipulations all the teams agreed to was that this year all the races would end on green.

No, they agreed they would prefer to end under green if possible, not that they must under any circumstances. If LAT dropped it on the second to last lap then clearly it wouldn't end under green.

 

[Monkey Man]

Whatever you think about the safety car shenanigans, Mercedes did not play a bad game. They made good decisions that put their driver in an excellent spot to take the win, and they got unlucky. Unfortunately, it was only partially the sort of random luck that makes sports great (Latifi crashing at a critical moment in the race) and mostly the sort of BS "luck" of the refs making a pretty bonkers decision with all precedent against it, a decision that ultimately decided the race and the championship.

I don't particularly care who won, I think Hamilton and Verstappen are both incredible drivers working for incredible teams. Either one is absolutely deserving of a world championship. I'm annoyed that the rules were changed mid-race, for reasons that are entirely inscrutable and have a heavy odour of favouritism. After a season with a bunch of dubious calls and weird double standards, this sort of clear break from any established procedure in order to set up a final lap in which one driver has a staggering advantage that was entirely due to luck is too much.

The "refs" absolutely deserve to be scrutinised for this, they did not behave in a reasonable manner.

Superbly-stated, Imari.

 

[Samus]

Nothing will change the fact that without the safety car HAM had won comfortably, barring any unlikely mechanical failures. The call to stay out on the hards was the right one, VER was not catching quickly enough.

As for pitting under the SC it would have been a HUGE gamble because they knew there was a chance the race doesn't get going again. Of course with the benefit of hindsight it was the wrong call but at the time it'd take balls of steel to pit HAM and put him behind VER only to see the race end under SC and they lose that way.

 

[Grayfox]

Russell is potentially fast enough to challenge Lewis early in the season but if Hamilton becomes the championship contender then Russell will perform exactly the same role as Bottas. Except he's likely to be less tetchy about it than Bottas was.

We did see how fast Russell was.
He was out pacing Bottas(now whether anyone can really do this if put in a merc is hard to say) but Russell was in an unfamiliar car(See Ricciardo as proof how this effects you) and he was in a car that did not fit him.
With those two handicaps playing against him,he did a darn good job.
Without them he will be faster, how much is hard to say.

As for him being Bottas 2.0 at what point does Merc go, you will now yield places for Hamilton and I wonder if the tables would be reversed, will Lewis play the role of Bottas 2.0

I can see a Russell v Hamilton v Max championship battle going on, Similar to the Hamilton v Rosberg days

 

[CarreraGT]

2016 and 2012 beat it for me.

And regardless of that, do you want exciting or authentic? It isn't staged, or at least wasn't until yesterday. WWEF1.

Nothing staged about it. The race director wanted the race to finish under green flag, that is the aim at every race. They managed to clear the track safely and finish the race under green flag conditions, what more do you want?

 

[Samus]

Nothing staged about it. The race director wanted the race to finish under green flag, that is the aim at every race. They managed to clear the track safely and finish the race under green flag conditions, what more do you want?

Are you just purposely ignoring the issue that the internet has been discussing the past 72 hours? You know, the race director doing something he'd never done before, going against what he himself had said in the past? Where procedure wasn't followed, because he just wanted a show between the front two and screw everyone else? That issue?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Doubters need only look at the lead Max managed to gain in less than a lap after taking Lewis; those new slicks vs Lewis' old hards was chalk and cheese.

It's a bloody disgrace in my book. The result deserves to be overturned if ever there was a case for this AFAIC.

It doesn’t deserve to be overturned because the driver who loses out has done nothing wrong.

 

[Samus]

@MagpieRacer why are you flinging poop? Do you not think what Masi did was wrong or staged in any way? I've never said the result should be changed but the facts don't lie. There has never been a time in history where only a few lapped cars between only the two leaders have been released and then we immediately go racing. That isn't the procedure.

He said "let them race" but what about Sainz? He might have been able to fight for the win as well but he had lapped cars between him and VER. Not exactly fair.

 

[kungtotte_]

Sainz would at least have been a worry for Max, possibly delaying his attack on Lewis long enough. Even if Sainz was never going to finish better than third, it's still a pretty big question mark hanging over everything.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

There is a question that has come to my mind that I'm not sure has been bought up much yet.

How aware was Masi of the underlying regulations when he made his decisions that night at Abu Dhabi?

I ask as I feel many are assuming Masi already had the argument about one regulation overriding another and the definition of "any" in mind when he made his ultimate decision. It's not inconceivable - see American Football's tuck rule - but he was in a highly stressful situation with limited time, incessant politicking in his ear and the pressure not to allow an intense season end under a safety car.

I do have a theory but I'll be frank. The idea that I am even considering everything I am stating below frightens me.

1. Masi was going to do everything within his power to allow at least one green flag lap, if at all possible. This was the impetus for all subsequent decisions.

2. Masi did not allow lapped cars to overtake initially as the marshals had to first clear Latifi's car off the track; safety dictated this choice.

3. By the time track was clear, Masi realized time was critically short to allow the lapped cars to unlap themselves. Therefore, he stood with his initial choice.

4. Masi realized the possibility of a final lap head to head battle between Lewis and Max was there, either on his own or thanks to Red Bull pointing this out. This was too much to ignore. However, the lapped cars prevented this.

5. In his eagerness to deliver something truly special, Masi rushed his decision to only allow the unlapped cars between Lewis and Max through. Motives on only partial application of the regulation is unclear but the two theories are either because:

a. Masi had forgotten the exact details of that regulation in that moment due to the intense pressure he was under.

b. Masi's eagerness overrode his professional judgment.

6. Once the scope of this egregious error was unfolding, the development of the rationale currently being used by the FIA began. It is possible that Red Bull's points were Integrated or were the actual baseline.




TL;DR: Masi made a serious mistake and the FIA is trying to cover it up.

 

[Grayfox]

Maybe in future.
Instead of making lapped cars do a FULL LAP, the cars on the current lap are told stick to the right of the track.
Then cars that are 1 lap down starting from the front of the grip move to the left in order and slot in last place.
Then cars that are 2 laps down to the same and so forth.
Then the cars are all marked as "On Current Lap"
One can argue, they don't cover "Full Race Distance", but does it matter?
A car that is 2 laps down and crosses the line after the checked flag is shown doesn't do those 2 extra laps, the race is over right there for them, so overall its the same as it would be if its not under a SC.

This can all be done in 1 lap,
This way racing is resumed quicker.