Formula 1 Gran Premio de México 2019Formula 1

[baldgye]

THAT'S the problem, combined with the aero wall they hit. None of the top 6 could really get within 2s without those aero issues.

Nah the problem was brake and overall temps. The air is so thin due to the altitude that soon as the cars got within a second or so they started to overheat everything.

 

[TenEightyOne]

THAT'S the problem, combined with the aero wall they hit. None of the top 6 could really get within 2s without those aero issues.

This is the only race of the year at anything like this altitude and is therefore the least optimum for air-hungry F1 cars. We haven't seen that issue in recent races near sea level, if anything we've seen the closest running we've had for a long time.

 

[Jubby]

Where do you get the idea from? It's up to the driver to cope with the given tyres and strike the balance between tyre compound, lap times, and number of pitstops.

I am glad to see different approaches by different teams and drivers.

I can appreciate the different strats too... but the result made little sense. Bottas closed in 4 seconds in a few laps but couldn't get by Vettel. If you say that's because of his engine power, then why didn't he go pass Lewis with 20 lap better tires? Oh, and please don't say it wasn't possible with all the passing in p7-p16.

Nah the problem was brake and overall temps. The air is so thin due to the altitude that soon as the cars got within a second or so they started to overheat everything.

Yeah, that's the aero wall I was talking about. If the suck up was less taxing and a car was able to keep its true pace, they could close in and pass with DRS, easy. 20kph on the straight will do it all day.

This is the only race of the year at anything like this altitude and is therefore the least optimum for air-hungry F1 cars. We haven't seen that issue in recent races near sea level, if anything we've seen the closest running we've had for a long time.

Seen what issue? The aero wall? That's every race. The closest running is because they couldn't run close to pass... not that they're actually closer. Now, I can't prove it, but the conditions and circumstances lead me to it. Based on some of my earlier points.

 

[Famine]

Unless my math is off, Hamilton leads Bottas in the championship by 74pt, with 78pt left available (three wins, with three fastest laps).

That means Bottas must win every remaining race with the fastest lap, while Hamilton scores no more than three points across the three races - four would give him the title on countback (10 wins to 6).

Hamilton's worst ever three-race points scoring sequences are:
0 - Spain, Monaco, Turkey; 2009
0 - Monaco, Turkey, GB; 2009
0 - Turkey, GB, Germany; 2009
5 - Bahrain, Spain, Monaco; 2009
8 - Europe, Belgium, Italy; 2009

However that was all on 10pt for a win, points down to ninth. Converted to the current scoring format it'd be:
0 - Monaco, Turkey, GB; 2009
0 - Turkey, GB, Germany; 2009
2 - Spain, Monaco, Turkey; 2009
14 - Bahrain, Spain, Monaco; 2009
18 - Europe, Belgium, Italy; 2009

His worst ever three-race sequence in the Mercedes era is:
30 - Singapore, Malaysia, Japan; 2016

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

If he lost the championship he would have to top his 2007 effort.

 

[baldgye]

Yeah, that's the aero wall I was talking about. If the suck up was less taxing and a car was able to keep its true pace, they could close in and pass with DRS, easy. 20kph on the straight will do it all day.

There was passing, but imo even with the new areo regs, passing would be difficult. The infield section is a single file precession and the final stadium complex seems tailor made to increase field spread.


Add that to the very thin air and warm temps, and most cars of similar performance would struggle to battle.

 

[Jubby]

There was passing, but imo even with the new areo regs, passing would be difficult. The infield section is a single file precession and the final stadium complex seems tailor made to increase field spread.


Add that to the very thin air and warm temps, and most cars of similar performance would struggle to battle.

How do you explain the midpack? Quali times were within a second for 7- 16 (or something like that). Passing was happening 7-13 pretty reliably by F1 standards.

 

[baldgye]

How do you explain the midpack? Quali times were within a second for 7- 16 (or something like that). Passing was happening 7-13 pretty reliably by F1 standards.

In the midfield you've got different strategies mixed together and a bigger delta between the cars generally. In race-trim on Friday it looked like there was about a tenth between the Ferrari's and the Mercs'

 

[Jubby]

In the midfield you've got different strategies mixed together and a bigger delta between the cars generally. In race-trim on Friday it looked like there was about a tenth between the Ferrari's and the Mercs'

20 lap newer tires! If Vettel and Hamilton were separated by .1s in practice, the dropoff from 20 laps should account for at minimum .5s. Hamilton didn't have a full second in the bag, otherwise we would have seen him closer to Leclerc and gain on Vettel, as he closed up only like 4s in 20 laps before Seb met his box.

I just don't put this down to a superior Merc car and Lewis being the best driver. I put this down to a crappy tire formula and an aero wall, which we've seen too many times compromise good head to head racing. James and the strategists did a great job playing the game. Don't get me wrong, I'd play it too... I just wish there was more head to head.

 

[baldgye]

20 lap newer tires! If Vettel and Hamilton were separated by .1s in practice, the dropoff from 20 laps should account for at minimum .5s. Hamilton didn't have a full second in the bag, otherwise we would have seen him closer to Leclerc and gain on Vettel, as he closed up only like 4s in 20 laps before Seb met his box.

I just don't put this down to a superior Merc car and Lewis being the best driver. I put this down to a crappy tire formula and an aero wall, which we've seen too many times compromise good head to head racing. James and the strategists did a great job playing the game. Don't get me wrong, I'd play it too... I just wish there was more head to head.

I can see what you are saying, but we had a similar situation at the British GP and the strong tyres actually made the racing exciting because the drivers could push and follow. The difference was temps (and obvs altitude).

We've seen amazing racing throughout the season and I do think the cars play a large part in the issues. But I think, in this instance, the track layout and the altitude of the track was the biggest contributing factor.

 

[DriftShock]

Maybe we should pick a track slightly closer to Sea Level
The most common problem in this thread seems to be Air Pressure and Temperature, so maybe a slightly lower track may help
As @baldgye said, the fact that the tyres didn’t actually degrade made the racing more exciting because people could push the tyres harder without worrying about wear at Silverstone, which is pretty much at Sea Level. Therefore, if Mexico could potentially build a track at a lower altitude and with similar design to Mexico City (minus the Infield section, because that’s basically Hermann Tilke’s impression of Monaco), I think it would make for some excellent racing

 

[baldgye]

Maybe we should pick a track slightly closer to Sea Level
The most common problem in this thread seems to be Air Pressure and Temperature, so maybe a slightly lower track may help
As @baldgye said, the fact that the tyres didn’t actually degrade made the racing more exciting because people could push the tyres harder without worrying about wear at Silverstone, which is pretty much at Sea Level. Therefore, if Mexico could potentially build a track at a lower altitude and with similar design to Mexico City (minus the Infield section, because that’s basically Hermann Tilke’s impression of Monaco), I think it would make for some excellent racing

I think we can still have good racing at that altitude, but the track needs to be laid out better...

For example the stadium complex basically enforces field spread. If there was a way to make the back S's more straight and smooth out the entrance to the stadium so it's hairpin acted more like an actual hairpin, we'd see far more action into there that wasn't a Max lunge... and that could then combo into more T1 action.

 

[DriftShock]

I think we can still have good racing at that altitude, but the track needs to be laid out better...

For example the stadium complex basically enforces field spread. If there was a way to make the back S's more straight and smooth out the entrance to the stadium so it's hairpin acted more like an actual hairpin, we'd see far more action into there that wasn't a Max lunge... and that could then combo into more T1 action.

I get that, but it’s also a case of Tyre management
The compounds the drivers were given are far too hard. Softer compounds would really allow them to push with the reduced downforce

 

[baldgye]

I get that, but it’s also a case of Tyre management
The compounds the drivers were given are far too hard. Softer compounds would really allow them to push with the reduced downforce

Softer compounds would have just meant more saving and slower laps

 

[twitcher]

Typical Hamilton win. 4th in qualifying, gifted 3rd from an idiotic move by Verstappen, Ferrari completely throws away the win by covering Albon wth the race leader and giving the struggling Vettel in 2nd place the preferential strategy. Hamilton complains the entire race about being on the wrong strategy/tire and it just all works out for him after 50 laps as the tires hold and with Vettel completely useless while Leclerc is too far back to do anything after a fumbled pit stop and the wrong strategy. Unbelievable.

Hamilton is the best driver in the field, don't mistake my words, but his luck and mismanagement by Ferrari (and Red Bull sometimes) nearly at every single race is just ridiculous. Cannot wait to hear him whine about Ferrari being so much quicker for the final races while clearly having the best race pace of the field. And does it really matter how fast Ferrari are when they get the strategy completely wrong at least 80% of the time? It's like taking candy from a baby.

What move by Verstappen was idiotic?

He challenged Hamilton...the guy with everything to lose....going into T1. Hamilton got a tank slapper which forced Max off the track.

Then he pulled off a excellent move on Bottas, only to have Bottas pull a Nico and puncture his rear tire.

Nothing about his moves were idiotic, twice he got taken out by a Mercedes driver who couldn’t control their car appropriately. If Max shouldn’t have gone for those moves, then we might as well not go racing.

DRS was supposed to be a temporary bandaid, and it’s to the point now where fans actually condemn drivers making hard moves in corners instead of waiting for the easy, boring, no talent required DRS pass on the straight.

Fans complain about boring racing, but wag their fingers at any driver who even attempts something remotely exciting.

 

[EDK]

Maybe we should pick a track slightly closer to Sea Level
The most common problem in this thread seems to be Air Pressure and Temperature, so maybe a slightly lower track may help
As @baldgye said, the fact that the tyres didn’t actually degrade made the racing more exciting because people could push the tyres harder without worrying about wear at Silverstone, which is pretty much at Sea Level. Therefore, if Mexico could potentially build a track at a lower altitude and with similar design to Mexico City (minus the Infield section, because that’s basically Hermann Tilke’s impression of Monaco), I think it would make for some excellent racing

Would maybe be fans watching on TV at home, but not so much for the race promoter.

Did you see the attendance figures? From a promotion point of view, the race was wildly successful. They had nearly 350,000 attendees for the weekend.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...exican-grand-prix.77Znp9IOzVTiI9U367X2ZS.html

And, I would argue that the first half of the race was actually pretty darn entertaining. Then it became a boring slog.

 

[DesertPenguin]

They had nearly 350,000 attendees for the weekend.

I'm curious, how does this get calculated over the weekend? Do they mean 350,000 separate tickets, from day passes to full weekend passes all lumped together? I'd like to know how many people attended the race itself on Sunday.

 

[EDK]

I'm curious, how does this get calculated over the weekend? Do they mean 350,000 separate tickets, from day passes to full weekend passes all lumped together? I'd like to know how many people attended the race itself on Sunday.

Sounds like from the article I linked that ~92,000 fans attended Friday practice alone, which is pretty crazy.

I believe they add attendance from all sessions, so it's not 350,000 unique fans, but rather probably ~150,000 on race day, and then another 100k on each of the other 2 days. Something like that.

I attended the Austin race in 2012 and 2014, and there were a LOT of fan from Mexico sporting Checo gear at those races.

I think there were comments when Mexico came back on the calendar that the attendance from those fans in Austin was one of the key reasons for Mexico's return. They actually have the same event promoter.

http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/168813.html

 

[DesertPenguin]

150K is still a hell of a lot of people

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

What move by Verstappen was idiotic?

I'm guessing the whole going through a yellow flag zone flat out then begging the stewards to take pole off him.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I'm guessing the whole going through a yellow flag zone flat out then begging the stewards to take pole off him.

I think he's talking about his overtake on Bottas, which was actually a pretty decent move, it's just a shame it was at such an unexpected corner for a pass that Bottas just turned in normally and suddenly clipped Verstappen's rear tyre which was suddenly where his front wing was supposed to be, causing the puncture.

 

[BrainsBush]

I think he's talking about his overtake on Bottas, which was actually a pretty decent move, it's just a shame it was at such an unexpected corner for a pass that Bottas just turned in normally and suddenly clipped Verstappen's rear tyre which was suddenly where his front wing was supposed to be, causing the puncture.

Yep. Max' only chance to overtake was at an unexpected place on the track.Even with DRS on the long straights the RedBulls are not able to overtake the power Mercedes (or Ferrari). So he has to do something (risky) different. Puncture was the result. But at least he tried...

 

[daan]

What move by Verstappen was idiotic?

I think he's talking about his overtake on Bottas, which was actually a pretty decent move,

He was obviously talking about Verstappen's qualifying idiocy.

Hamilton... 4th in qualifying, gifted 3rd from an idiotic move by Verstappen,

 

[DesertPenguin]

I know this probably isn't the right topic for this, but does anyone know what's going on with the Formula 1 YouTube channel right now? Some live thing called F1: Live on Hollywood Boulevard

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Per the youtube description: Formula 1 brings the spectacle of racing to Los Angeles for the first time as Daniel Ricciardo, Valtteri Bottas, Max Verstappen and Alexander Albon take to Hollywood Boulevard for a special live car run.

💡

 

[DesertPenguin]

Genius! I was asking just as I saw it pop up and they were getting started. Just a typical F1 city event