Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada 2016

[RACECAR]

I don't think Hamilton has some of the best wheel-to-wheel moments on occasion, but crikey, the amount of people out to get him is ridiculous.

They are just as hilariously delusional as the Hamilton fanboys. Hell, its the GT Sport forums all over again

Yeah, no issue at all. That's why Ricc not even looked at Lewis during the entire podium celebration/interview.

Last I checked, he didn't want anything to do with his team either.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can ask you the same question of Rosberg in 2014.

And I can ask you the same question of Hamilton in any one of a dozen other instances. Like I said, the move itself is not the problem - the problem is Hamilton's habit of pushing people wide. Why do you think this comes up every race?

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Sorry, well I'm not really sorry but, that's why Rosberg will never be a Champion. Bold statement for sure but, c'mon.... This guy...

I really like Rosberg, but he just doesn't have it, there'll always be someone who's more aggressive than him, you don't just get worldchampion simply because you're fast, other drivers are fast, too. And his problem is Hamilton definitely got it and Rosberg getting out maneuvered by a rookie* like today clearly shows this.

*no idea if this is Verstappen's first season, to me it's obviously a rookie though (who's also a strong championship contender in the future going by his showings so far).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

And I can ask you the same question of Hamilton in any one of a dozen other instances. Like I said, the move itself is not the problem - the problem is Hamilton's habit of pushing people wide. Why do you think this comes up every race?

Well you tend to be one of the biggest factors in driving driver hate, it's just today you're finding company with it rather than everyone telling you to be quiet. Monaco was valid many agree, Spain was put down to both drivers being at fault, and here similar racing incident. You have people fighting for a win and pushing at each other.

I really like Rosberg, but he just doesn't have it, there'll always be someone who's more aggressive than him, you don't just get worldchampion simply because you're fast, other drivers are fast, too. And his problem is Hamilton definitely got it and Rosberg getting out maneuvered by a rookie* like today clearly shows this.

*no idea if this is Verstappen's first season, to me it's obviously a rookie though (who's also a strong championship contender in the future going by his showings so far).

It's his second season, not a rookie.

 

[Samus]

And I can ask you the same question of Hamilton in any one of a dozen other instances. Like I said, the move itself is not the problem - the problem is Hamilton's habit of pushing people wide. Why do you think this comes up every race?

So if it's not about the move itself then why is it being discussed? Was the move 'dirty' or not? Was Rosberg doing the exact same thing dirty? You can't have it both ways.

 

[FutureF1]

How long have you been watching F1 for? In Almost every occasion, the World Champion is in the fastest car.

I really like Alonso, but Lewis matched him at McLaren, as a rookie. He didn't have the best car a lot of the time he drove for McLaren, yet won races and a World Championship.

Vettel always had the fastest car (by a big margin). Ricciardo had done nothing so far.

Been watching since 06 and I never spoke about world championships. Fernando Alonso is the best driver on the field and he's only won 2. The stats don't mean much to me. It's what you see on track that's important and Fernando Alonso has driven better than anyone else in the past 10 odd years.

He didn't have the best car in 2011-2014 and 2009 was an awful car as well and he did his best in those. He's won a race each year he's driven so that says a lot, I feel you have a massive chip on your shoulder about a driver you'll never meet. He is one of the best because he's shown raw pace/speed, and being quite a driver in varying conditions while also being quite adaptable. The same feature that Vettel and Alonso have. Lewis isn't the best I'd say, but he's in the league with a couple others.

His cars haven't been awful though. 2009 was probably his worst car and even that was 3rd best. He's scored in every season because he's always been in a competitive car. Put him in some of the stuff Alonso's driven and you'll see him down the order.

It's tough to gauge a driver since the cars play 90% in who wins, but when a driver makes a midfield car look good, you know he's good.

 

[Dennisch]

I'll interrupt this dejavu turd of a discussion with the appreciation for Max, who was told not to hold up Daniel. In which he responded by just driving away from him.

 

[Samus]

Every damn F1 thread goes like this. It's rather tiresome, I'm out.

 

[Dennisch]

Every damn F1 thread goes like this. It's rather tiresome, I'm out.

We have a civilised one in the Infield.

 

[RACECAR]

Love how people discouraging jumping on a driver for everything automatically makes the place Pro-driver when clearly, its the exact opposite.

Every damn F1 thread goes like this. It's rather tiresome, I'm out.

Yeah, I'm finished here. Like I said, its the GT Sport forums all over again.

 

[Stotty]

Been watching since 06 and I never spoke about world championships. Fernando Alonso is the best driver on the field and he's only won 2. The stats don't mean much to me. It's what you see on track that's important and Fernando Alonso has driven better than anyone else in the past 10 odd years.

His cars haven't been awful though. 2009 was probably his worst car and even that was 3rd best. He's scored in every season because he's always been in a competitive car. Put him in some of the stuff Alonso's driven and you'll see him down the order.

It's tough to gauge a driver since the cars play 90% in who wins, but when a driver makes a midfield car look good, you know he's good.

Alonso's had every opportunity to win more Championships. He's driven for Ferrari and McLaren, 2 of the most competitive teams in F1 history. Maybe he's a good driver, but he can't 'build a team' or 'develop a car' as well as other?

So what makes Alonso the best? He couldn't beat Lewis when Lewis was a Rookie

Surely part of managing your career is to try and ensure you're going to be in a competitive car? Just as MS did.

 

[Terronium-12]

I really like Rosberg, but he just doesn't have it, there'll always be someone who's more aggressive than him, you don't just get worldchampion simply because you're fast, other drivers are fast, too. And his problem is Hamilton definitely got it and Rosberg getting out maneuvered by a rookie* like today clearly shows this.

*no idea if this is Verstappen's first season, to me it's obviously a rookie though (who's also a strong championship contender in the future going by his showings so far).

Generally I would agree with this, however, he's shown that he absolutely possesses a... let's call it an 'overly-competitive streak', he just isn't willingly able to rely on it. That, perhaps more than anything else, is his undoing.

He has the pace. He has the skill. He lacks that necessity, the grit to tell those around him to 🤬 off because the championship belongs to him and no one else.

 

[Bo]

Why do people put Lewis Hamilton up on a pedestal of the best in this generation?

I get that it's a matter of opinion but he hasn't done anything of significance until he was given the best car.

Except rack up a championship, notch up countless wins, podiums and poles. He had a rough patch with McLaren's reliability issues, so who knows, it could have been even more.

But yeah, that's definitely not significant at all.

The likes of Alonso, Vettel, and Ricciardo are much better than him if you ask me. They don't have off days.

Vettel has made more mistakes than a good chunk of the grid in his time at Ferrari, and his last season with Red Bull wasn't much to shout about. Alonso and Ricciardo are undoubtedly some of the best drivers of the modern era too, but it's not like nobody recognises that. Both are continually praised for their talent.

I just don't see that in Hamilton.

How many times has Hamilton come up from the very back of the field to rescue a weekend? Regardless of how good the car is, and regardless of the blips he's had, he's never shown himself to be a weak charger. I think that's the first time I've ever seen Hamilton described in that way.

He's been gifted so much in his career that it's hard to count him as one of the all-time greats let alone one of the best of this time period.

Yes, he was fast-tracked into F1 because of his connections to McLaren. He didn't get those connections, he didn't get his junior formulae results, and he didn't get his F1 results by being an average driver.

I don't like Hamilton that much, but I can't say he's a bad driver. It's obvious you're not a fan either, but there's a lot of clutching at straws to devalue his achievements.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

His cars haven't been awful though. 2009 was probably his worst car and even that was 3rd best. He's scored in every season because he's always been in a competitive car. Put him in some of the stuff Alonso's driven and you'll see him down the order.

It's tough to gauge a driver since the cars play 90% in who wins, but when a driver makes a midfield car look good, you know he's good.

Okay let's break this down then. 2009 was not third best and in reality at many times was as weak as it's 2008 rival Ferrari, and there were many design queues both took from each other. Ferrari could have probably easily beat McLaren had it not been for Massa injury, Toyota had many fast moments too. Just cause you finish 3rd in WCC that automatically proves, them 3rd best? Mid 2000s McLarens would love to have a talk with you relative to their finishing positions in WCC.

2011 McLaren had no chance to RBR, and they really beat Ferrari through the second half of the season. 2012 McLaren was fast but team issues for both drivers constantly dropped the ball, and even still Ferrari and RBR were still strong competition and the first half of 2012 was a time where many cars on the grid had potential to win a race.

2013 the car was a one trick pony, which was quali, and then it came down to weather conditions and track layout as to if the car could keep the pole position, but once the second half of the season started, RBR had no problems.

It wasn't until 2014 that Lewis had something on par and actually greater than his 2008 WDC winning car.

This still doesn't change the fact that he beat his 2 time WDC winning team mate as a Rookie.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I'll interrupt this dejavu turd of a discussion with the appreciation for Max, who was told not to hold up Daniel. In which he responded by just driving away from him.

Yep, that was pretty awesome!

 

[FutureF1]

Right well maybe I see see something no one else really sees.(I used to like the guy btw. Not a hater)

I just don't think he's as good as people make him out to be. Even out the grid and he won't be winning.

It's just unfortunate that the best drivers don't always end up in the best cars. I'll be off to the Lost Talents thread. Good day!

 

[Famine]

2009 was probably his worst car and even that was 3rd best.

2009 was not third best and in reality at many times was as weak as it's 2008 rival Ferrari

To the Famine's Adjusted Constructor Championship!

2009
1. Brawn 127pt
2. RBR 81pt
3. Toyota 71pt
4. Ferrari 57pt
5. Sauber 54pt
6. McLaren 53pt
7. Williams 50pt
8. Renault 36.5pt
9. Force India 33pt
10. STR 23pt

 

[Saidur_Ali]

He has the pace. He has the skill. He lacks that necessity, the grit to tell those around him to 🤬 off because the championship belongs to him and no one else.

I think problem for him is he lacks a bit of pace to Lewis. A lot of misfortune for Lewis seems best hope for him to bag a WDC. Thought following was quite telling in terms of Nico's mindset, I don't think Lewis would be thinking like that: Link

 

[Bo]

Even out the grid and he won't be winning.

Well unless you have a single-make or BoP'd series, you won't get that. The best drivers more often than not find themselves in the best cars, and that's how it's always been.

Hamilton has been in equal machinery in his junior days though, and won championships in Formula Renault, Formula 3 and GP2, so your argument doesn't stand up very well.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To the Famine's Adjusted Constructor Championship!

2009
1. Brawn 127pt
2. RBR 81pt
3. Toyota 71pt
4. Ferrari 57pt
5. Sauber 54pt
6. McLaren 53pt
7. Williams 50pt
8. Renault 36.5pt
9. Force India 33pt
10. STR 23pt

@FutureF1 I dont think he's proving you right with your theory.

 

[zzz_pt]

Ricc didn't look at anyone, hell Ricc didn't even want to be on the podium.

Tense situation at a very tight chicane, I mean I just watched a 4 time WDC make the same mistake 3 or 4 times now at the same corner while chasing the leader thus destroying his chances at a win. These things happen, but you've taken it as a sinister act. Go watch the videos and look at the pictures, if he had made a second move RBR would have made a complaint and Lewis would have been penalized so you're point doesn't hold water.

I never said it was a black and white situation. I just said I don't have the same opinion on this case. Read the report, saw the footage and the pictures before several times already.

He had position before the turn and as the switched over Rosberg was driving into a wedge to pass Lewis, same way Lewis did it 2 years prior as video showed by @Samus, which you also ignored.

I didn't watch the 2014 race and when Samus posted the video I was still writing. I went to watch the start of the race and I think the same. If stewards are going to let drivers push each other out of the track (and this has also happened to other drivers without penalties), they will keep pushing and abusing the rules. Hamilton did the same today because he knew nothing would happen. If Rosberg had push him a second time, I would like to see him penalized.

You can't leave a car with going side by side after you were passed up the inside on the entrance to it.

How did the RBR managed to go side by side and the Mercs didn't?

You're asinine ideas of this is some perfect world and there is so much track width people are easily accessible to a car width is just baffling.

Were the RBR drivers in another world? No. They did exactly what I said the Mercs could and should have done. But I'm the one with asinine ideas.

But let's cut this easy cause just like are arguments over the whole Israel Palestine stuff a couple years back, this will go the same way. Many disagree with your views professionally and fan wise and there is enough evidence of similar events from differing drivers to show that this may just be bias.

Aren't you mistaking it for the Guns thread? Yes, many disagree with me. We're in GTP. Many have the same opinion because the majority are from the US/UK. What a surprise.

I'm not going to bother from here on cause it will be quite counter productive since you'll just repeat yourself as you tend to do, thus ignoring any argument I've given.

I didn't repeat anything. If you don't want to bother do yourself a favor and don't bother to reply.

@TenEightyOne Yes, BRB pit stop was the major issue (after Spain) with him losing the race. Didn't say the contrary. He was pissed.

 

[FutureF1]

Man I was 9 in 2009. How am I supposed to remember exactly how good the McLaren was?

Again I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't think Hamilton has had a tough time in Formula One. He's been given a lot which I don't like but who really cares what I think. It just gets to me that the better driver may not be remembered in 20-30 years while the likes of Hamilton and Vettel will.

 

[Terronium-12]

I think problem for him is he lacks a bit of pace to Lewis. A lot of misfortune for Lewis seems best hope for him to bag a WDC. Thought following was quite telling in terms of Nico's mindset, I don't think Lewis would be thinking like that: Link

Hm. I don't know if I'd size it down to outright pace, as even Hamilton himself has said on more than one occasion that [Rosberg] shouldn't be underestimated. I'd really liken it to Brawn.

Between the two, Rubens was almost unequivocally the faster of the two. However, Jenson is notoriously known for being a smoother and more consistent driver, thus leading to his victory. As I expressed, Nico has the skill and pace but he isn't as consistent as he really needs to be. He's either on it (and when he's on it, he really on it almost scarily so) or he's off it.

And when he's off it things like today happen.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Man I was 9 in 2009. How am I supposed to remember exactly how good the McLaren was?

Again I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't think Hamilton has had a tough time in Formula One. He's been given a lot which I don't like but who really cares what I think. It just gets to me that the better driver may not be remembered in 20-30 years while the likes of Hamilton and Vettel will.

Eh okay, I don't really believe when there are "opinions" being based on thing that have facts to back them up that people can loosely say that it's an opinion and you're off the hook. Sure who the best driver is is subjective like what the best flavor of cake is, but what's being discussed here isn't so vast and vague.

@zzz_pt no go look at the palestine thread during the Israel bombing where you'd argue against many of us, and how that didn't go anywhere. Same thing here, my memory is less fickle, but yeah if the gun threads works for you as an example that also is another place.

 

[FutureF1]

Eh okay, I don't really believe when there are "opinions" being based on thing that have facts to back them up that people can loosely say that it's an opinion and you're off the hook. Sure who the best driver is is subjective like what the best flavor of cake is, but what's being discussed here isn't so vast and vague.

@zzz_pt no go look at the palestine thread during the Israel bombing where you'd argue against many of us, and how that didn't go anywhere. Same thing here, my memory is less fickle, but yeah if the gun threads works for you as an example that also is another place.

Not saying it to get myself "off the hook." I'm saying it because who you think is the best drivers is purely down to opinion. Hell there are millions of people in Indonesia who might think Rio Haryanto is a serious talent(and maybe he is).

The fact is that Hamilton hasn't had smooth sailing his whole career, but it's been a hell of a lot smoother than many others who I personally would rate higher. Simple as that.

 

[Bo]

It just gets to me that the better driver may not be remembered in 20-30 years while the likes of Hamilton and Vettel will.

The two "better" drivers you've alluded to - Alonso and Ricciardo - are, again, both praised for their talent. Alonso has 2 WDC's, so he's not exactly going to be forgotten, and Ricciardo surely has the potential for at least one - if not, he'll definitely be remembered as one of the most talented to never win a championship.

Stirling Moss doesn't have an F1 title to his name, but that doesn't stop him from being remembered as an all-time great. It's not as though drivers vanish off the face of the earth after their careers.

Again I'm entitled to my opinion.

Nobody has said you aren't entitled to it. You're just basing your opinion off some very odd reasoning, which we're pointing out.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not saying it to get myself "off the hook." I'm saying it because who you think is the best drivers is purely down to opinion. Hell there are millions of people in Indonesia who might think Rio Haryanto is a serious talent(and maybe he is).

But this isn't who is the best driver though, you're questioning a 3 time WDC winner based on an incident at Canada that the stewards didn't find necessary to follow up on.

The fact is that Hamilton hasn't had smooth sailing his whole career, but it's been a hell of a lot smoother than many others who I personally would rate higher. Simple as that.

Like who? Vettel spent one full season in a toro rosso and even if he hadn't won a rain soaked Monza, was well on his way to the mother ship. Alonso, who I just saw you claim injustice to on another thread had the chance to be in a McLaren 2008, but because of his ego took himself out of fighting for another potential WDC. 2010 he had it and just couldn't close the deal, some blame Petrov but there were other factors, 2011 he had a crap Ferrari, 2012 he made mistakes that cost him, Japan easily comes to mind. And 2013 was a not so good Ferrari, 2014 transition was similar to that of Vettel a very bad car all around in the new turbo era.

And well the rest is painful history. Point is he's had the same active chance at a class winner as the other two he's placed in the same rank with. And usually it's his own person that is at fault and not "luck".

Any other drivers you'd like to discuss go ahead, but if Lewis is so horrid, then he would have never come this close. And he sure as hell wouldn't have won what he has against tough competitors.

 

[FutureF1]

I think you might be taking words from my mouth here as I never said Lewis was bad. I said he owes most of his success to his cars. Which is very true at least in my eyes.

I agree Alonso lost it in '07 but he's evolved into a much better person and driver since. His time at Renault seriously helped him become who he is today.

This argument can go on for a while so it's honestly best for both of us to let it go. You have your opinion and your views, and I have mine. Let's agree to disagree and move on with our lives.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think you might be taking words from my mouth here as I never said Lewis was bad. I said he owes most of his success to his cars. Which is very true at least in my eyes.

I agree Alonso lost it in '07 but he's evolved into a much better person and driver since. His time at Renault seriously helped him become who he is today.

This argument can go on for a while so it's honestly best for both of us to let it go. You have your opinion and your views, and I have mine. Let's agree to disagree and move on with our lives.

Well you've tried to discredit Lewis in the same way people tried to do to Vettel when winning at RBR, and since proves it's not the car. Lewis did the same thing when he got on with a new team and won a race with them his first season. Usually when people do this, it's cause they don't think a driver is all that great, or perhaps bad. I'm not putting any words anywhere just going off what your past comments on the subject have said.

Also many would disagree with you about Alonso, as recent as 2014 when he was pushed out of Ferrari, many claimed the guy was aloof and hard to work with if not impossible.

 

[Samus]

Rosberg: Hamilton contact infuriating but fair

Nico Rosberg has said he was angry in the heat of moment following his first corner brush with Mercedes team mate Lewis Hamilton in Canada, but that he ultimately views it as a racing incident.

Rosberg attempted to pass Hamilton around the outside of Turn 1, but the Briton held his line and nudged Rosberg wide - forcing him to take to the grass, which ultimately dropped him down to ninth at the end of the first lap.

"Sebastian [Vettel] made a good start, I had a decent one and Lewis had a really bad one," Rosberg said of the start.

My position was on the outside. In Barcelona I gave it a go around the outside of Lewis and it worked out really well, and I went for the same again today. He did a really hard racing manoeuvre, we touched and I was off, and that's it. It didn't work out.

"I was very [angry] in the moment, but that's racing. In the end it's my job to make sure I'm in front after a battle like that next time.

"It was very costly for me because I lost a lot of places and from then it was an uphill battle trying to fight back.

"We had a great car today, so it was even more disappointing - as Lewis showed, the car was worthy of the win."

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom...g--hamilton-contact-infuriating-but-fair.html