Formula 1 Rolex Magyar Nagydíj 2021

[Samus]

Lewis would have had pole anyway without the dirty games.
They were complaining about Red Bull tarnishing his reputation, but honestly he's ruining his reputation himself by behaving like this

Behaving like what? He drove as slow as he was allowed to and no different to any other weekend, nobody even attempted to overtake him. It's not like he weaved all over the track to keep them behind or something.

 

[Adam41]

RB could have avoided that if 1. they went fast enough on their first q3 laps and 2. came out of the pits before Merc just like they did with Max on the first run.

At least Horner admitted it was gamesmanship. I don't expect the same from their fans though.

 

[PeterJB]

Here are the updated qualifying averages:

Verstappen: 0.153
Hamilton: 0.195
Bottas: 0.349
Leclerc: 0.634
Norris: 0.637
Perez: 0.654
Sainz: 0.723
Gasly: 0.755
Ricciardo: 1.102
Alonso: 1.206
Ocon: 1.281 +1
Stroll: 1.292 -1
Vettel: 1.304 +1
Tsunoda: 1.429 -1
Russell: 1.474
Giovinazzi: 1.506
Raikkonen: 1.895
Latifi: 2.125
Schumacher: 2.410
Mazepin: 2.907

 

[PaMu1337]

Behaving like what? He drove as slow as he was allowed to and no different to any other weekend, nobody even attempted to overtake him. It's not like he weaved all over the track to keep them behind or something.

1. He clearly drove much slower than usual, even in the pitlane, clearly with the intention to block RB
2. Max attempted to get by a few times, but couldn't, because:
3. Lewis did, in fact, weave quite a bit in a few places

There is a general rule saying that you may not drive unnecessarily slowly.
To add on to that rule, it has been decided that there is a maximum time that drivers may take between the two safety car lines. Anything over that is definitely driving too slowly, but if you are under that, you are not necessarily driving fast enough.

 

[GingerBredMan]

There is a general rule saying that you may not drive unnecessarily slowly.
To add on to that rule, it has been decided that there is a maximum time that drivers may take between the two safety car lines. Anything over that is definitely driving too slowly, but if you are under that, you are not necessarily driving fast enough.

Here we go again with the unwritten rules. He's not even being investigated for anything

 

[PaMu1337]

Here we go again with the unwritten rules. He's not even being investigated for anything

Unwritten rules?

F1 sporting regulations:

27.4 At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be
deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.

 

[Fat Tyre]

Unwritten rules?

F1 sporting regulations:

Do you think Karen Horner will ask to speak to the manager for that?

 

[PaMu1337]

Do you think Karen Horner will ask to speak to the manager for that?

I was just (indirectly) responding to @Samus saying he drove as slow as he was allowed to. I'm not saying anything about how RB or the FIA should respond to that.
In general acting on the edges of the rules in an unsportsmanlike manner is bad for your reputation, so I'm just saying that Mercedes should stop complaining that Lewis' reputation is being tarnished by others, because they are doing this themselves.

 

[McLaren]

Do you think Karen Horner will ask to speak to the manager for that?

Horner surprisingly was fine with it. Reports also saying it was Lewis’ fastest out lap of the day.

Teams are focused on tomorrow now whilst Twitter and Reddit throw a fit.

 

[Northstar]

I'm just loving the fact we have an actual rivalry on our hands, seems that's a rarity in motorsports these days.

 

[PaMu1337]

I'm just loving the fact we have an actual rivalry on our hands, seems that's a rarity in motorsports these days.

It's good to have a proper rivalry.
It's better to have that rivalry being fought out by clean racing instead of crashes and setting fast laps in qualifying instead of preventing others from setting theirs

 

[Fat Tyre]

Horner surprisingly was fine with it. Reports also saying it was Lewis’ fastest out lap of the day.

Teams are focused on tomorrow now whilst Twitter and Reddit throw a fit.

That's really surprising and nice to hear. I was expecting Horner to complain to Masi or something. I can't wait for the race to start.

 

[Northstar]

It's good to have a proper rivalry.
It's better to have that rivalry being fought out by clean racing instead of crashes and setting fast laps in qualifying instead of preventing others from setting theirs

I can't recall there ever being a rivalry worth mentioning that didn't feature dirty tactics from all parties involved. It's war, only the losers play fair...

 

[Adam41]

1. He clearly drove much slower than usual, even in the pitlane, clearly with the intention to block RB
2. Max attempted to get by a few times, but couldn't, because:
3. Lewis did, in fact, weave quite a bit in a few places

There is a general rule saying that you may not drive unnecessarily slowly.
To add on to that rule, it has been decided that there is a maximum time that drivers may take between the two safety car lines. Anything over that is definitely driving too slowly, but if you are under that, you are not necessarily driving fast enough.

1. He drove no slower than any other driver in front of him. There was a queue of cars going down the pitlane. What difference does it make if he is on Bottas' gearbox or 50m up the road?

2. He really didn't. If he wanted to, he probably would have.

3. No, he didn't.

Here is the list of drivers part of that queue and how many seconds was left of the session when they crossed the line to start their lap:

Gasly 54
Leclerc 42
Alonso 36
Norris 28
Ocon 21
Bottas 13
Hamilton 6
Verstappen 2

Oh look, every driver leaving 7-8 seconds.

Stop making stuff up to suit your hate agenda.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Unwritten rules?

F1 sporting regulations:

Now help me understand why he's not being investigated for this?

I was just (indirectly) responding to @Samus saying he drove as slow as he was allowed to. I'm not saying anything about how RB or the FIA should respond to that.
In general acting on the edges of the rules in an unsportsmanlike manner is bad for your reputation, so I'm just saying that Mercedes should stop complaining that Lewis' reputation is being tarnished by others, because they are doing this themselves.

You don't like Lewis, we get it. Spare us the character assassination. Nobody feels any different about Lewis today than we did yesterday.

 

[PaMu1337]

1. He drove no slower than any other driver in front of him. There was a queue of cars going down the pitlane. What difference does it make if he is on Bottas' gearbox or 50m up the road?

View attachment 1070738

2. He really didn't. If he wanted to, he probably would have.

3. No, he didn't.

Here is the list of drivers part of that queue and how many seconds was left of the session when they crossed the line to start their lap:

Gasly 54
Leclerc 42
Alonso 36
Norris 28
Ocon 21
Bottas 13
Hamilton 6
Verstappen 2

Oh look, every driver leaving 7-8 seconds.

Stop making stuff up to suit your hate agenda.

I'll admit that with that data it doesn't look nearly as bad as the cameras were making it seem.

I'm not making stuff up, I'm stating what I saw. And on the cameras there was no real visibility of any cars in front and it looked way worse.

As for my points 2 and 3, there were a few moments where Max was trying to get by, and Lewis quickly moved in front of him. (Which to be fair happens in most qualifying sessions)

Assuming your numbers are correct I'll take back my points.

I don't have a hate agenda though. I just want to see a championship being fought out in a clean and fair way, and not by crashes and by bending rules.

 

[Samus]

1. He clearly drove much slower than usual, even in the pitlane, clearly with the intention to block RB
2. Max attempted to get by a few times, but couldn't, because:
3. Lewis did, in fact, weave quite a bit in a few places

There is a general rule saying that you may not drive unnecessarily slowly.
To add on to that rule, it has been decided that there is a maximum time that drivers may take between the two safety car lines. Anything over that is definitely driving too slowly, but if you are under that, you are not necessarily driving fast enough.

Do you have the time delta's that show he drove slower than usual? The driver tracker shows nothing unusual compared to the other cars ahead



I didn't see any attempts by Max to pass, nor any weaving. Is the on board for either driver available?

Red Bull just got this wrong going out too late, simple as that.

 

[PaMu1337]

Now help me understand why he's not being investigated for this?


You don't like Lewis, we get it. Spare us the character assassination. Nobody feels any different about Lewis today than we did yesterday.

Do you have the time delta's that show he drove slower than usual? The driver tracker shows nothing unusual compared to the other cars ahead



I didn't see any attempts by Max to pass, nor any weaving. Is the on board for either driver available?

Red Bull just got this wrong going out too late, simple as that.

See my post above.
Tldr: camera work making things seem worse than they are. (Judging from the tracker, it's in fact mainly Max just staying closer to Lewis than other drivers are)

The weaving moment was in turn 9. But as mentioned in my previous post, it's not really any different from what you see in Q3 most weekends.

 

[Samus]

See my post above

Fair enough. For reference anyway, here is the outlap as broadcast. Whilst HAM does certainly seem to go slower than usual on the pit exit it doesn't really have any effect, once they're on the track he catches up to the standard gap.



Anyway, back to the terrible camera angles/zooming, here is another couple from the end of that clip

I mean yes it's nice to see them close in sometimes but how on earth am I supposed to judge how well he's taking the corner? It was the same throughout most laps, couldn't even properly see them going through T4 most of the time where the exit is so key. Did they get it bang on? No idea.

 

[PaMu1337]

Fair enough. For reference anyway, here is the outlap as broadcast. Whilst HAM does certainly seem to go slower than usual on the pit exit it doesn't really have any effect, once they're on the track he catches up to the standard gap.



Anyway, back to the terrible camera angles/zooming, here is another couple from the end of that clip

View attachment 1070739
View attachment 1070740

I mean yes it's nice to see them close in sometimes but how on earth am I supposed to judge how well he's taking the corner? It was the same throughout most laps, couldn't even properly see them going through T4 most of the time where the exit is so key. Did they get it bang on? No idea.

I think one thing we can all agree on is that there need to be some serious changes about the F1 TV direction and camera work in general.

It's such a recurring topic lately. So many good battles missed, so many useless replays hiding real action, so many AWS overlays with complete nonsense data...

 

[Samus]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that there need to be some serious changes about the F1 TV direction and camera work in general.

It's such a recurring topic lately. So many good battles missed, so many useless replays hiding real action, so many AWS overlays with complete nonsense data...

It's been gradually getting worse over the years but I'm really starting to notice this year, especially in quali. Naturally they use less zoom in the races to show the battles but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I mean take the crash in Silverstone, the initial live angle was really quite poor, we couldn't see they were going to tangle until they did. We'd have had a much clearer view from a slightly higher angle.

But perhaps that is what they want, the "tension" from not seeing it all. I also notice we get far less on-board shots these days as well.

 

[Dreadmed]

Going off what I recall seeing on the broadcast, there was at least one moment where Max (who was generally about 2, maybe 3 car lengths behind on the out lap) shaped to power by Lewis, who moved over to "cover" it while speeding up. Not really the same as weaving at full speed to block someone off but... eh.

I mean yes it's nice to see them close in sometimes but how on earth am I supposed to judge how well he's taking the corner? It was the same throughout most laps, couldn't even properly see them going through T4 most of the time where the exit is so key. Did they get it bang on? No idea.

Yep.. Had no clue either and was having to rely on Nico for most of the focused quali laps e.g. Russell.

 

[PaMu1337]

It's been gradually getting worse over the years but I'm really starting to notice this year, especially in quali. Naturally they use less zoom in the races to show the battles but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I mean take the crash in Silverstone, the initial live angle was really quite poor, we couldn't see they were going to tangle until they did. We'd have had a much clearer view from a slightly higher angle.

But perhaps that is what they want, the "tension" from not seeing it all. I also notice we get far less on-board shots these days as well.

I think the onboard shots decreasing is partially due to the halo being in the way for doing them at an "exciting" angle. Now the camera needs to be a bit higher and it looks slightly slower.

For a while we had this really nice angle from besides the drivers head, but that became fully impossible.

That being said, I still would like to see more onboards. Especially in replays it really helps to judge what actually happened. In Silverstone it took ages before we saw both drivers' onboards, and that was while there was a red flag with nothing else to show...

 

[Samus]

Going off what I recall seeing on the broadcast, there was at least one moment where Max (who was generally about 2, maybe 3 car lengths behind on the out lap) shaped to power by Lewis, who moved over to "cover" it while speeding up. Not really the same as weaving at full speed to block someone off but... eh.


Yep.. Had no clue either and was having to rely on Nico for most of the focused quali laps e.g. Russell.

Indeed, that Nico commentated Russell lap was terrible to watch.

 

[Famine]

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

It's been gradually getting worse over the years but I'm really starting to notice this year, especially in quali. Naturally they use less zoom in the races to show the battles but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I mean take the crash in Silverstone, the initial live angle was really quite poor, we couldn't see they were going to tangle until they did. We'd have had a much clearer view from a slightly higher angle.

But perhaps that is what they want, the "tension" from not seeing it all. I also notice we get far less on-board shots these days as well.

It took me a while to notice, but it definitely bothered me a bit at Silverstone. As said there are too many zoom ins, and it just didn't flow well from one camera to the next. Well, that's disappointing.

 

[GTFan24]

Is it just me or is this a very arrogant response from Lewis towards someone who drove for 9 years in F1?

 

[BrainsBush]

Best response.

 

[PaMu1337]

Is it just me or is this a very arrogant response from Lewis towards someone who drove for 9 years in F1?

As usual, motorsport.com making a headline that completely puts things out of context.

Reading the entire article, it seems to me that what he said was fine. I'm also not sure if he was specifically referring to Grosjean with that final quote. Sounds more like it is aimed at everyone in general (including us here)

 

[kungtotte_]

What are the odds on a lap 1 red flag tomorrow?