Formula 1 Scraps The Use Of Grid Girls For The 2018 SeasonFormula 1

[MatskiMonk]

As @Pagey279 also says, there's potential to have 'grid girls' replaced with people who simply represent each team, much like mascots in football/soccer. It's not an outlandish concept.

I'm down with that..

... but equally, if a team wanted a beautiful woman in figure hugging lycra to represent them, I'd be down with that too.

edit: Just in case the photo is not showing up, it's from a story about the "Support our Paras" BTCC team. Link to the story here -> http://www.maxcoatesracing.co.uk/paras-racing-get-hero-visit

 

[Brend]

I'm down with that..

... but equally, if a team wanted a beautiful woman in figure hugging lycra to represent them, I'd be down with that too.

The beauty of individual mascots is that teams do get the chance to honour whatever tradition they want. Though I guess that could start a political war.

 

[phenomphlyer]

There’s always Super GT.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

I’m heterosexual, though I've often suspected if I weren't, I'd be totally gay for Kimi Raikkonen.. does he count as eye candy? I'd hate to think I had poor taste

Haha I’m more of a Stoffel Vandoorne kind of guy but yes Kimi does have some eye (and ear) candy

 

[TheCracker]

I'm pretty sure the Grid Girls at every F1 round are a different group each time, probably from the nation that hosts the round. Not having a couple of days work a year isn't going to ruin anyone's career as no body has ever been a professional Grid Girl. Lets face it, they're just jobbing models for the rest of the year.

It's not like The Sun suddenly getting rid of page 3. They already dress pretty demurely these days anyway, so it's not like guys are going to miss seeing a bit of flesh. Getting rid of them is just the next logical step in keeping the sport up to date. You can't pretend to by at the cutting edge in many respects, but still have some attitudes left over from the 70's.

 

[warp9engage]

If that's your view on grid-girls, then fine. If you find yourself insulted by it, I'm glad I'm able to accept or ignore such seemingly insignificant things much more easily I guess.

Grid-girls never stopped me from enjoying racing. They were a more of a pet peeve of mine. One of those things that made me go: "This is great! But if that was gone, it would be even better!". I really didn't like when the cameraman would show a grid-girl instead of the car and the driver. I was watching a race, after all, not a modelling showcase. Everything has its best suited place.

I wouldn't, I'd guess 85% of the shots I take are cars, but you're missing my point. I'm not complaining that I wouldn't be able to take photo's of grid girls anymore, I'm emphasizing that I like visual variety... the things you claimed are a distraction - because y'know, you're a true racing fan.

I would call you a true racing fan as well, because your main focus is the cars and racing. The problem is the using of grid-girls to attract folks who couldn't give two cents about the on-track action. Cheapens the sport, to be honest. I'd rather fans coming in, in fewer numbers, but fans that are there for the actual championship than a bunch of "fans" that were fished by the bait of a few, insignificant extras.

 

[homeforsummer]

But again, who says its not the best way of inspiring younger generations to get into the sport? Anything can be an inspiration, just seeing girls in the same vicinity as motorsport, regardless of the level of involvement, could be the inspirational spark for someone... who knows! It should really be seen as a good example of female involvement because as it is there are way too many men on screen in F1.

The men in F1 are doing things like driving the cars, changing tyres, fixing engines (okay so that's mostly in the McLaren garage), sitting on the pit wall directing their drivers' races, waving the checkered flag, owning the entire sport... and so-on.

The women in F1 are mostly just standing around in matching outfits looking pretty.

If you can't see why those are unlikely to inspire younger boys and girls in the same way or to the same extent (and why the latter might be off-putting for young girls) then you're either being wilfully obtuse or you're completely detached from reality.

You wanted an example of a girl who has transitioned from that role, I gave you one. Whether she is on the fence about the profession (totally her right) is irrelevant with regards to that point. Also there have been more than a few current and former grid girls that certainly haven't been on the fence about all this as well as some drivers.

Who'da thunk that a bunch of girls who've lost one or two days of employment a year and a bunch of red-blooded males who get to stare at their arses for a few minutes each race would be miffed about such a situation! I'm sure they've considered all sides of the argument completely rationally.

How is declaring your love for something you do or appreciate an unbalanced approach?

Being on one side or other of the argument isn't balance. Balance is being able to understand why this decision has been made and understand that it's not just some overly-PC "feminazi" conspiracy to rid the world of beauty.

 

[eran0004]

You mean the century that delivers a higher quantity of exploitation and graphic over-sexualisation of women straight to your homes, TVs, computers, and your kids mobile phones than ever before..... yeah... "welcome! take a seat, have a cigar!"

What in my post made you think that's what I meant?

 

[KingK76]

This is total B.S. What the hell... smh...

 

[MatskiMonk]

What in my post made you think that's what I meant?

I don't think that's what you meant... I was highlighting that it's a flawed idiom, in terms of media and corporations exploitation, via over sexualization - or explicit sexualization, of women through the ever more direct channels that lead into every facet of our lives... ... obvs.

 

[Spurgy 777]

But no, it's definitely feminists and political correctness rather than logic and promoting broader opportunities.

To say that by removing grid girls, or removing opportunities, is promoting broader opportunities is a really twisted way to look at it to say the least with no logic behind it at all. To use your example, the 8 year old girl will go from seeing grid girls as the only women involved in the sport to seeing no women involved in the sport at all. This is meant to be better at encouraging her to become an engineer/driver how exactly? I think both situations are just as likely as each other to discourage young girls so using your argument I see no reason to remove them at all. And to suggest that feminists want to promote broader opportunities is laughable as well when most of them obsess over equality of outcome without really caring much about equality of opportunity.

If you want to make sure kids aren't discouraged from pursuing the careers they want to pursue then a far better solution is to talk to them as individuals, find out their interests and what they want to do and do everything you can do help and encourage them to achieve their goals. A stupid and dangerous course of action would be to start removing their opportunities in some sort of an attempt to force them to pursue the careers you think they want to pursue.

Personally I couldn't care less if there are grid girls or not as I skip everything that isn't either qualifying or the race so I never see them anyway. What I do care about is the reason for getting rid of them, and if it's something reasonable like @Danoff mentioned about grid girls not fitting image that the F1 organizers think F1 should have then fair enough, but if it's a stupid attempt at "encouraging" young girls to become engineers as you suggest then it's been done for the wrong reasons and I can't see it achieving that goal at all.

 

[homeforsummer]

This is meant to be better at encouraging her to become an engineer/driver how exactly?

Negative reinforcement. If she doesn't see women in the more technical or exciting roles in the sport, there's not actually anything to suggest it isn't possible (absence of evidence isn't evidence etc). If she sees that women are in the sport solely as decoration (evidence is evidence), she may be discouraged assuming that that's the only way she can get into the sport.

If we introduce the concept of talking to kids as individuals (which everyone is falling over themselves to mention like I'm ignoring it completely for some reason) then it's also easier for a parent to explain that the reason she's not seeing women drivers or engineers is because fewer apply, than it is to try and convince her it's possible even though the only women she's seeing are there for their looks.

And please people, read my earlier post, for pity's sake. I'm personally indifferent on grid girls and I'm very aware that F1 is doing it for the reasons @Danoff suggested.

I brought up the idea of making the sport look better for future generations because that's a potentially positive outcome resulting from F1's decision, even if it isn't explicitly the reason F1 has ditched grid girls. Anyone claiming they're unable to see any benefit whatsoever is being intellectually dishonest.

 

[Roo]

I'm all for anything that stops the cringy, creepy applause the winning drivers get on their way to the podium.

I'd take the people-losing-work arguments more seriously if there was as much uproar when teams shut down. 400 women losing a few days' work with several weeks/months notice seems like a complete non-issue compared to 400 or so employees of, say, Manor losing their main, if not only, source of income with no notice at all, and yet that passed with barely a mention.

Nothing personal against the individuals involved, but I'm glad we'll no longer have women on the grid solely there for their appearance. I'll feel less weird about calling myself an F1 fan without them.

Still, I find all the whining and crying about the abscence of grid ladies hilarious.

 

[05XR8]

VASC's view of grid girls
https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/02/02/supercars-always-reviewing-grid-girl-policy/

 

[coryclifford]

So, you guys don't like looking at girls, or am I not getting it?

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I'd take the people-losing-work arguments more seriously if there was as much uproar when teams shut down. 400 women losing a few days' work with several weeks/months notice seems like a complete non-issue compared to 400 or so employees of, say, Manor losing their main, if not only, source of income with no notice at all, and yet that passed with barely a mention

Manor ended with barely a mention? No uproar when teams close? Our memories certainly have their differences.

You also say you'd take people more seriously and then try and compare two entirely different, incomparable situations as a counter point. One is an image and/or politically driven choice, the other is a business that couldn't get the sponsorship.

 

[ThePotatoKing]

Leena Gade is the first female race engineer to win Le Mans and will be doing the same job for James Hinchcliffe in IndyCar this year.

When did that happen ?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Negative reinforcement. If she doesn't see women in the more technical or exciting roles in the sport, there's not actually anything to suggest it isn't possible (absence of evidence isn't evidence etc). If she sees that women are in the sport solely as decoration (evidence is evidence), she may be discouraged assuming that that's the only way she can get into the sport.

So what do you do when your kid is a little chubby and turns on the Olympics and sees a bunch of buff looking high jumpers, sprinters and gymnasts? "Oh look Daddy, they're all so skinny and athletic looking, I can never do that. It's not fair they don't let the chubby girls in the Olympics!!" Sorry, but I don't buy the argument that the world has to change so it can be slightly easier for you to explain something difficult to your child. What's next? No more pretty, slim, athletic cheerleaders? No more pretty women in movies? No more magazines focusing on pretty women?

If we introduce the concept of talking to kids as individuals (which everyone is falling over themselves to mention like I'm ignoring it completely for some reason) then it's also easier for a parent to explain that the reason she's not seeing women drivers or engineers is because fewer apply, than it is to try and convince her it's possible even though the only women she's seeing are there for their looks.

If it's so easy to explain why she isn't seeing women drivers or engineers, which involved the very broad and complicated concept of differing preferences among men and women, how is it suddenly so hard to explain why there are grid girls?

I brought up the idea of making the sport look better for future generations because that's a potentially positive outcome resulting from F1's decision, even if it isn't explicitly the reason F1 has ditched grid girls. Anyone claiming they're unable to see any benefit whatsoever is being intellectually dishonest.

I guess I'm being intellectually dishonest. The women who will no longer get to work as grid girls certainly don't benefit. Any exposure they may have gotten on the world's largest motorsport stage is now gone and any career benefit they may have received is also gone. The fans that enjoyed ogling the grid girls certainly aren't better off. Not a single little girl is going to be encouraged to be a mechanic, engineer, driver, team owner, or anything else involved in motorsports, by the removal of grid girls. Nor do I believe any little girl was ever discouraged from being any of those things simply from watching pretty girls on tv. Anything that could have been done to promote women getting into motorsport, if that is a concern here, could have been done with the grid girls intact.

IMO the powers that be at F1 aren't doing this to promote opportunities or because they care about women. They're doing it to avoid politically motivated, SJW backlash. It's about image and making sure you have your back to the winds of political correctness.

Rebecca Cooper, a five time F1 grid girl, said on Twitter that it is "ridiculous that women who say they are 'fighting for women's rights' are saying what others should and shouldn't do, stopping us from doing a job we love and are proud to do. [It is] political correctness gone mad."

From Michelle Westby, former grid girl. "If it wasn't for grid work / promotional modelling, I wouldn't be where I am now in a 'male dominated' sport and job as a stunt driver and drift competition driver, inspiring and influencing females into this 'intimidating male environment.' I get girls messaging me all the time saying how I inspire them and made them want to get into racing and drifting when they didn't think they would be accepted… What people don't realise, is that the girls have knowledge of the products and teams they are promotion — that's part of the job. We get a brief on the uniform but it's up to us if we feel comfortable in it. We are more clothed than what teenagers wear down the supermarkets. I'm now retired but to think girls have lost a lot of important income because feminists think they know best, when they really haven't got a clue, is frustrating."

 

[crooky369]

When did that happen ?

 

[Spurgy 777]

Negative reinforcement. If she doesn't see women in the more technical or exciting roles in the sport, there's not actually anything to suggest it isn't possible (absence of evidence isn't evidence etc). If she sees that women are in the sport solely as decoration (evidence is evidence), she may be discouraged assuming that that's the only way she can get into the sport.

Seeing women doing other non-technical jobs in the sport isn't evidence that it isn't possible to do those technical jobs if you're a women just as there not being any women in those roles already isn't evidence. It takes a lot more than just looking at the current representation of women in those jobs to determine how difficult/possible it is to get that job as a women compared to a man. If we actually aim to educate kids properly on how the world actually works, rather than trying to change the world so that an 8 year old doesn't get the wrong idea we would be a lot better off.

If we introduce the concept of talking to kids as individuals (which everyone is falling over themselves to mention like I'm ignoring it completely for some reason) then it's also easier for a parent to explain that the reason she's not seeing women drivers or engineers is because fewer apply, than it is to try and convince her it's possible even though the only women she's seeing are there for their looks.

It's hardly difficult to explain that more women choose to be models instead of engineers and that that fact is irrelevant to a woman's capability of being an engineer. And frankly if it takes a while to explain then good! Parents shouldn't avoid teaching their kids stuff simply because it is difficult to explain and the world shouldn't be changed to allow parents to avoid discussing potentially difficult concepts. Do you not think it is important for kids to learn that what they choose to do in life shouldn't be influenced by what everyone else thinks?

And please people, read my earlier post, for pity's sake. I'm personally indifferent on grid girls and I'm very aware that F1 is doing it for the reasons @Danoff suggested.

I brought up the idea of making the sport look better for future generations because that's a potentially positive outcome resulting from F1's decision, even if it isn't explicitly the reason F1 has ditched grid girls. Anyone claiming they're unable to see any benefit whatsoever is being intellectually dishonest.

I did, and if that's all you had said then I wouldn't be disagreeing with you, I'm discussing your initial point that somehow getting rid of grid girls makes a difference to how much young girls are encouraged (or discouraged) into pursuing one of the technical F1 careers.

 

[twitcher]

A whole thread about grid girls, and from a quick skim through, I see one opinion from an actual grid girl. I'll leave these here (it's really not hard to find this stuff)






It's a good thing FOM are saving these silly little girls from themselves.

Particularly interesting this one

Woman uses grid modelling to pay to go racing...BAN HER!

I'm not one who's all "we NEED grid girls"....but I am quite anti BANNING grid girls. Let women chose what they want to do. If they want to be a grid girl, let them!

 

[Roo]

So, you guys don't like looking at girls, or am I not getting it?

Personally I find the idea of anyone being lusted after to be uncomfortable, but that's just me.

Manor ended with barely a mention? No uproar when teams close? Our memories certainly have their differences.

Manor's closure garnered less than 10 posts on page 5 of a thread about F1 contstructors on GTP. Outside of this forum the event had almost no coverage at all outside of the specialist motorsport press - a few brief online articles from a handful of newspapers.

In contrast, we're on nearly 140 posts in just over 24 hours about a group of people losing a few days' earnings in an industry where long term careers are, as far as I'm aware, few and far between. In the wider world this change made it into mainstream news bulletins and some newspaper front pages (although describing The Sun as a newspaper is streching the term to almost breaking point).

The reaction to "grid girls" no longer being employeed seems to me to be massively disproportional to the actual effect the decision will have on the individuals concerned.

You also say you'd take people more seriously and then try and compare two entirely different, incomparable situations as a counter point. One is an image and/or politically driven choice, the other is a business that couldn't get the sponsorship.

In both situations, people were made redundant. The much less serious redundancy has generated much discussion, bleating, and hand wringing, whereas the more serious nature of losing one's livelihood at a moment's notice passed comparatively quietly.

When did that happen ?

A few weeks ago.

 

[eran0004]

I don't think that's what you meant... I was highlighting that it's a flawed idiom, in terms of media and corporations exploitation, via over sexualization - or explicit sexualization, of women through the ever more direct channels that lead into every facet of our lives... ... obvs.

That is the expansion of media, not a shift in values. There is now more of anything than ever before, not just sexual content.

As for the "offended" debate, it's quite clear which the offended group is.

 

[infamousphil]

If there was ever a grid girl, who was physically and/or subjectfully unattractive to me, put out there on display to model or represent a brand, i could respect the idea. Unfortunately, the norm has been... 'sex sells'.

Or am i stuck in the 60s?

 

[homeforsummer]

Seeing women doing other non-technical jobs in the sport isn't evidence that it isn't possible to do those technical jobs if you're a women just as there not being any women in those roles already isn't evidence. It takes a lot more than just looking at the current representation of women in those jobs to determine how difficult/possible it is to get that job as a women compared to a man. If we actually aim to educate kids properly on how the world actually works, rather than trying to change the world so that an 8 year old doesn't get the wrong idea we would be a lot better off.

It's hardly difficult to explain that more women choose to be models instead of engineers and that that fact is irrelevant to a woman's capability of being an engineer. And frankly if it takes a while to explain then good! Parents shouldn't avoid teaching their kids stuff simply because it is difficult to explain and the world shouldn't be changed to allow parents to avoid discussing potentially difficult concepts. Do you not think it is important for kids to learn that what they choose to do in life shouldn't be influenced by what everyone else thinks?

Of course it is, but young children are very impressionable and are already bombarded by both positive and negative information that can have an influence on how they develop.

Is it that difficult for people to understand where I'm coming from with this? Yes, parents should help their kids learn about how the world works, but the media is an incredibly powerful and influential force on how people develop and has been for most of the last century or so, and removing just a few behavioural stereotypes from a sport as big as F1 has to do more good than it does harm.

I did, and if that's all you had said then I wouldn't be disagreeing with you, I'm discussing your initial point that somehow getting rid of grid girls makes a difference to how much young girls are encouraged (or discouraged) into pursuing one of the technical F1 careers.

Right. It was a really simple suggestion and I'm surprised it's persisted this long.

To me it seems abundantly obvious that removing the concept of "women as decoration" from a massively-viewed sport has the potential to improve that sport's image, particularly for younger viewers. Does that make me completely insane or is it fair to say that's a reasonable viewpoint, because so many of you don't seem to make that connection that I'm honestly beginning to wonder.

I'm not one who's all "we NEED grid girls"....but I am quite anti BANNING grid girls. Let women chose what they want to do. If they want to be a grid girl, let them!

It's not really a "ban" (though that word gets the most clicks in the - mainly tabloid - media, obviously). F1 has decided simply not to have grid girls any more. It isn't legally required to provide employment to grid girls and it's a decision by the sport itself rather than by the governing body of the sport, the FIA.

 

[Roo]

Woman uses grid modelling to pay to go racing...BAN HER!

I'm not one who's all "we NEED grid girls"....but I am quite anti BANNING grid girls. Let women chose what they want to do. If they want to be a grid girl, let them!

Nobody's banned anyone. Just because a company has decided not to maintain a job doesn't mean you can't do the same job somewhere else. You may as well suggest that everyone who has ever been made redundant was banned. There's no rule in place to prevent women being hired again at a later date, but for now that position is closed. Edit: tree'd by hfs.

 

[lancia delta hf]

LMAO at the arguement that grid girls cant inspire young boys and girls to become engineers. Do all boys watch F1 wanting to be a driver, a mechanic, an engineer, a commentator? no. Theres a variety of dreams. So what about the girls who watch F1 but also dream of being a model? and maybe they dreamnt of being a grid girl to. If there are 1 million little girls watching F1, they cant all be engineers in F1. Quite a silly arguement.

Also look at the people who are actually happy at grid girls have been abolished from F1. Its all people that it has no affect on one way or another. its all fat ugly women and beta males. Go look at their joy. They are the people that constantly check their social media to see who they can aim the rage machine at and get gratification from seeing the media run with their campaign.

Bring grid girls back. I ont care for them myself but the reasons for dropping them is wrong as imo it looks as if its to cater to the very few who spend all their time being SJW (warriors lmao) on the net because they dont have real issues.

P.S Women losing their income because feiminists (ogres mostly) whinging and MEN decided these women cant think for themselves.

p.p,s i wonder if F1 teams can hire them themselves?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

its all fat ugly women and beta males.

Serious question, how old are you?

 

[crooky369]

Personally I find the idea of anyone being lusted after to be uncomfortable, but that's just me.

That doesn't make any sense to me unless your asexual? Could you explain yourself a bit more please.

 

[twitcher]

If there was ever a grid girl, who was physically and/or subjectfully unattractive to me, put out there on display to model or represent a brand, i could respect the idea. Unfortunately, the norm has been... 'sex sells'.

Or am i stuck in the 60s?

Maybe like, 1060...as in 1060ish BC, or whenever it was that Greeks started worshipping the human form. Ever heard of a statute of a dude named David? What do you think the statue is celebrating?