Formula 1 STC Saudi Arabia Grand Prix 2025Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
  • 132 comments
  • 8,199 views
Max is an aggressive driver and there's no denying that. Considering what he has achieved in the sport by being the way he is and driving the way he does, he has no incentive to change. In addition, when you hear Horner in the radio blaming everyone else even if Max is at fault, there's absolutely no way Max would think otherwise. Maybe harsher penalties but even with that, I doubt that will change anything for him since he's been groomed to believe that he can't do no wrong.
 
The 5 second penalties are a joke, imo they only really work with track limit infringements. Everything else like passing while off track and not giving the place back should be at least 10 seconds. Maybe add it to their total race time instead of allowing them to serve it in the pits too, idk.
 
Last edited:
That Lawson penalty was a joke!! Not sure if I'm missing something or not but from what I saw, he wasn't fighting for position, he barely went off track, and most definitely gained no advantage from it ?? ... Basically the opposite of Max but gets twice the penalty !

I know everyone is debating the opening lap penalty, but for me the Lawson one is more concerning, if they can give 10 seconds for basically a (single) track limits violation then no one is safe.
 
Last edited:
That Lawson penalty was a joke!! Not sure if I'm missing something or not but from what I saw, he wasn't fighting for position, he barely went off track, and most definitely gained no advantage from it ?? ... Basically the opposite of Max but gets twice the penalty !

I know everyone is debating the opening lap penalty, but for me the Lawson one is more concerning, if they can give 10 seconds for basically a (single) track limits violation then no one is safe.
Max is safe with 5 seconds as they said they give discounts for lap 1. And they like to excuse Max driving like an angry cab driver.
Remember Max running Lewis miles off track without trying to make the corner at Interlagos in 2021 and doing it to Lando in Austin last year is no problem. Max getting left no space while his opponent Actually Makes the Corner! is cheating and filthy.

The FIA garbage about corner rights is and always was going to be a setup for arguments and problems. First issue is where is the apex? If it's a late apex corner where it doesn't match the track curbs or painted line "apex" how do you judge? Max got Verstappened and will never change in F1. If they try to crack down on him it'll be simple, he'll leave rather than admit he needs to adapt.
 
Last edited:
I’d really like to see Max racing for another team, see if it mellows him out a bit. Most drivers talk crap over the radio to see if it sticks, but Red Bull is always there to back him up, its clearly a toxic environment. I actually hate that Christian Horner has seemingly just gotten away with being a weird little creep with little to no repercussions, and Helmut is like a cartoon villain. :lol:
 
FIA sleeping for years watching Max exploiting rules to his (unfair) advantage and acting against the sport by doing so. Now or since last year they finally started punishing him for these shenanigans. He acted like a child on smaller things before so not sure why anyone is now surprised he went or probably still on his way from childish to toddler. Nasty horny Horner and big mouth Marko backing that up like they always did for their faultless golden boy. We'll surely have another Jos dutch media interview in the next days with yet another new dumb take on the matter or probably again the british bias or race control always against Max etc. etc..
 
Max is safe with 5 seconds as they said they give discounts for lap 1. And they like to excuse Max driving like an angry cab driver.
Remember Max running Lewis miles off track without trying to make the corner at Interlagos in 2021 and doing it to Lando in Austin last year is no problem. Max getting left no space while his opponent Actually Makes the Corner! is cheating and filthy.

The FIA garbage about corner rights is and always was going to be a setup for arguments and problems. First issue is where is the apex? If it's a late apex corner where it doesn't match the track curbs or painted line "apex" how do you judge? Max got Verstappened and will never change in F1. If they try to crack down on him it'll be simple, he'll leave rather than admit he needs to adapt.
Yeah this is what I mean, everyone is debating the opening lap penalty (I understand because they are the title contenders) but why is no one concerned that a driver got a 10 second penalty for 'leaving the track and gaining an advantage' but the incident appears no more than a simple (and single) track limits violation ?
 
Yeah this is what I mean, everyone is debating the opening lap penalty (I understand because they are the title contenders) but why is no one concerned that a driver got a 10 second penalty for 'leaving the track and gaining an advantage' but the incident appears no more than a simple (and single) track limits violation ?
The Lawson penalty goes back to the FIA understanding that the rules are ironclad and 100% non-debatable if you're not a star. Lawson isn't so gets the slam dunk penalty. Similar to HAAS repeatedly getting meatball flags for "suspected loose parts on the car" while Alonso got nothing for driving around with a mirror flapping in the breeze that then fell off.
 
The Lawson penalty goes back to the FIA understanding that the rules are ironclad and 100% non-debatable if you're not a star. Lawson isn't so gets the slam dunk penalty. Similar to HAAS repeatedly getting meatball flags for "suspected loose parts on the car" while Alonso got nothing for driving around with a mirror flapping in the breeze that then fell off.
Yeah that kinda seems about right... (I think it was Stroll he overtook before corner entry ?) Stroll complains over the radio that Lawson went off track, stewards saw it was 'just Lawson' no need to review the footage, automatic 10 second penalty it is !!
 
I laughed out loud when Verstappen started complaining about being pushed off. Piastri's great start definitely rattled his cage a bit.
Yeh, it is going to be interesting to see how this escalates. Max complaining with Horner in full whinge mode is entertaining although for drama rather than pure sporting interest. I am a little worried about Max getting dirtier on track in the next few races but perhaps we will see something new.

I would make the argument he has single handedly lowered the driving standards of the sport to a farcical level. If he left the sport tomorrow I wouldn't miss him one bit.
Most narcissistic driver driving for the most toxic team in racing. Great combo.
Agree except for "single handedly", he been a significant actor in the downward trajectory of Fl in my opinion.

I totally agree with this, but the reason I've quoted it was in memory of Hamilton's 2010 campaign; throughout the year, Lewis was subject to harsher and more stringent punishments each time above the normal amounts in order to try and temper his behaviour and it's something which Max needs - he's been close to the limit of his penalty points for years, he's shown that, left to his own devices, he's simply incapable of driving in a sportsmanlike manner and is willing to bend/break the rules/cheat (delete as applicable) instead of race cleanly when wheel-to-wheel.

We could see that the rot started with Senna and got worse with Schumacher, but Max takes it to a much more dangerous level. As Famine mentioned above, an unwillingness to take more action above what the rulebook says (considering we had a 'great reset' and created the rules of engagement) created an environment where cheating is given an inconsequential slap on the wrist.
Some really good points, I think it's interesting how the sports rule application severity swings back and forth... cynically there more $ in sensationalism than in sport?

I think Senna becoming a martyr for the sport is such a tragedy and a double edged sword as even the sport organisers and commentators perpetuates the idol-worship and tries to hide problems against sportsmanship. I cringe at repeats of "never go for a gap" quote as oft used as justification for win-at-all-cost behaviour and seen as a positive when in context he was making a potentially disrespectful childish selfish retort to a genuine question of racing safely asked by a triple world champion and legend of the sport.

I don't think it necessarily got worse with Schumacher, unless you mean the inconsistency of action / reaction by stewards and media. For most of MSC career there was a massively negative tone from Brit-centric commentary that I found equal entertaining and annoying - including a bit of vitriol such as the never ending perpetuation of single sided views of grey area things, such as Adelaide 94 where "MSC stole Hill's championship by crashing him" where by modern standards Hill would probably be penalised for causing a collision as his wheels didn't get far enough alongside (a day and dollar late whatever could be a modern reaction). Nevermind that title was only in contention due to 3 race disqualification for obeying the team instead of the stewards which was a pretty extreme penalty... imagine anyone in the last 20 years having a 2 race ban - he overtook a driver on the warmup lap (that has zero impact on the race), then got a penalty and the team said keep driving we will dispute it... that is exactly type of thing RedBull would do with Max but can you imagine them getting disqualified and a 2 race ban? Maybe eventually a modern driver would obey stewards because of the 1994 precedent, but probably not Max.

I think the inconsistency got worse, but I genuinely think MSC resorted to win-at-all tactics as a last resort only a few times in his career. For example, in 1994 Schumacher didn't run Hill off the road and had done a big portion of the race trying to win fairly, and in 1997 he had at least tried to win for many laps before he seemed to be under too much pressure and resorted to the unsportsmanlike action. While in 1990 Senna didn't even try to race fair and he took the cheap shot to take out rival to win the title.

Max is more like Senna - must always win or be the victim. Max will cheat on turn 1. The commentator used to incessently repeat hyperbole "Schumi chop" but that was more vitriol than anything and it was not commenting on anything against the rules.

Max on the contrary enjoys lions share of benefit the majority of adoration from the commentators, who largely say "isn't he clever for lifting off the brake to get his wing ahead at the apex to draw a penalty for his rival!" and only draws their ire if he really goes over the line.
Although the stewards will eventually penalise him, however, the majority of the time if there is room things seem to go in his favour.
 
I have a new silly but mildly entertaining hobby. I've been trolling the "completely blind to any faults" Max ultra "fans" by defending the Saudi turn 1 with the same defenses they used in Austin, Austria, Mexico, and Jeddah 2021. I avoid Abu Dhabi because that was 90% remembered for other garbage. Quite entertaining to keep prompting them and watch them tear their own arguments on why Max is never at fault to shreds.
 
Back