Formula 1 STC Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2022Formula 1

[Samus]

Fun race, looking forward to more battles between those two at the front. Really bad luck for Perez.

The world feed direction is still so annoying though. There is a battle happening live, right now, I don't need to see a slo-mo replay of the battle 2 minutes ago and I certainly don't need yet another cut to fans in the crowd when the move isn't even finished! Helmet cam is also terrible for actually watching racing, save that for replays when nothing else is happening.

 

[Redneckchef]

I have to admit, I despised Max last year. He has always been a lightning fast talent trapped in a midfield or slightly above car so it was understandable some pushy moves would happen. Last year he had the better car for at least 40pct of the season. And he was still doing wild and reckless sends. Constantly. I thought it was a Supreme waste of his talent to let him stay so aggressive all the time and not help him mature and I placed the blame with Marko, Horner and Jos.

Last week he was trying the same stuff. But this GP I was excited to see him be more cautious and learn from what had been happening. Taking a measured approach to passing when the first big send promptly got him passed back. It showed some patience and maturity, things I've always thought were lacking in his racecraft. I'm excited to see if he keeps it up because I would hate to see his obviously immense talent wasted by always keeping it on full send at all times instead of pacing and planning things more.

Full credit, great set up and pass in the end, he earned that the right way.

 

[Jimlaad43]

@Jimlaad43
I went to rewatch it instead of just retelling the same comments as the Sky presenters in the heat of the moment.

In about 3 corners, it went yellow, green, yellow, and finally green, before becoming a hard double yellow with only a few corners left.

During those moments Leclerc did not gain, he remained at ~~0.500s til the end. Neither driver eased up, so I don't get what the issue is.

This becomes a he said she said argument until Verstappen crosses the line and all is forgotten...

Such as Verstappen gaining ~.700 from ~1.7s delta during the virtual safety car before restarting at ~1.0s behind.

Regarding crossing the pit entry, a lot of drivers did so during their scraps but it was a non issue because the drivers involved just wanted to race.

I just find it amusing when the most aggressive driver of the last season cries out like some great injustice has befallen him.

Absolute hypocrisy and a poor character trait.

My comment was a barbed bit of sarcasm aimed at both those drivers (and the entire field) for not actually properly slowing down for yellow flags,.

 

[GroupB]

The world feed direction is still so annoying though. There is a battle happening live, right now, I don't need to see a slo-mo replay of the battle 2 minutes ago and I certainly don't need yet another cut to fans in the crowd when the move isn't even finished! Helmet cam is also terrible for actually watching racing, save that for replays when nothing else is happening.

This pretty much sums it up, and is a good indication that the personnel group has been brought in to maximize drama and action. They most likely have limited knowledge and/or interest in the sport, which is what we’ve had to deal with in USA race broadcasts for decades.

 

[Jezza819]

This pretty much sums it up, and is a good indication that the personnel group has been brought in to maximize drama and action. They most likely have limited knowledge and/or interest in the sport, which is what we’ve had to deal with in USA race broadcasts for decades.

WEC does the same thing. Two cars are battling down the Mulsanne and they cut away for a reaction shot in the team garages. Annoys the heck out of me.

I will say it was nice during the Rolex 24 hours of Daytona that the directors focused on that Porsche GTD battle as much as possible. I think IMSA does a pretty good job overall which considering how many classes they have has to be a tough job at times.

 

[Peter.]

I said that too last week, DRS seems way too advantageous. I.ve always hated it.

It's a bit artificial but it has kept the sport alive in some ways. Pre DRS, overtaking was not difficult in a way that rewarded speed and skill, but physically impossible. The idea is to be able to stay close to cars you are on pace with or faster. It's mostly done a good job over the years of not being too intrusive or advantageous, with how difficult it was to follow.

But in this case, it felt like Max was erasing a 6 tenth gap in 2 DRS zones just from being close enough. Felt like slipstream pre GT Sport. I don't know if they have adjusted DRS zone length this year, but they should consider being more pre-emptive with this.

Maybe they're also too scared to dial it back too much and ruin a weekend? After all, you could also argue the faster cars haven't lost because of DRS, Alonso passing Ocon, Ocon passing Norris, or Max passing Leclerc were instances of the faster car or driver passing a slower one, and in all 3 instances they stayed ahead without DRS.

 

[Dennisch]

Anyone heard what Günther would have done for 2 points last year?



Language warning for the young and feeble.

 

[Dotini]

The 2022 Saudi Arabian GP was an instructive moment in politics, morality and activism as well as racing car and circuit design.

MEDLAND: A good race, in the wrong place

Sport has an incredible ability to distract. It’s escapism at its finest, and a Formula 1 race is just one of the many different events that can help take your mind off what is going on in the rest…

racer.com

 

[TheElbows]

I mean, we still have races in China, Turkey, etc...if they want to be genuine they need to can all the races in places like that, but they won't.

 

[Blitz24]

 

[Peter.]

I mean, we still have races in China, Turkey, etc...if they want to be genuine they need to can all the races in places like that, but they won't.

The list of countries would be very small if we only went to countries with a clean record of morality and human rights. That said, it's probably a good idea to at least start with only going to countries that aren't getting missiles lobbed over their border. If you ask me, they should probably stop their genocide of Yemen before hosting a world sportswashing event with the guided long range repercussions knocking on the door.

 

[Keef]

I mean, we still have races in China, Turkey, etc...if they want to be genuine they need to can all the races in places like that, but they won't.

I have a feeling that as F1 expands across America - to the utter dismay of European fans - it will open up opportunities to cancel the more controversial races on the calendar. Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Russia which thankfully got canned. Hell, even the Hungaroring is only 540 miles from an active warzone right now, the same distance from where I live to New York City. That's a 10 hour drive lol, I've done it several times.

There are now three done-deals in the US, COTA, Miami, and Vegas, the former two of which have huge potential for longevity, and Indy still looms large in the background waiting for Roger Penske to stop being a grumpy old man. Opportunities abound and hopefully such races and the overall security and stability of the US market will replace the sketchier events one by one. We need fewer dictators trying to gain global influence and more genuinely economically viable races on the calendar.

Even if it pisses off European fans to no end.

 

[MSZ]

 

[Famine]

Hell, even the Hungaroring is only 540 miles from an active warzone right now, the same distance from where I live to New York City. That's a 10 hour drive lol

Yeah, but you're also 190 miles from an active warzone: Detroit.

 

[Keef]

Can't argue with that. I can't even imagine an F1 race in Detroit - you could run it down a straight road and let the potholes be the apexes.

 

[GroupB]

I would argue that the US market is now probably oversaturated with 3 races, and one is going to die quickly while the other 2 fight over what is left.
It will be interesting to see how attendance fares at the Miami venue. It’s a region that is notoriously fickle about professional sports even when home to top-level talent or championship-winning teams.

 

[McLaren]

I would argue that the US market is now probably oversaturated with 3 races, and one is going to die quickly while the other 2 fight over what is left.
It will be interesting to see how attendance fares at the Miami venue. It’s a region that is notoriously fickle about professional sports even when home to top-level talent or championship-winning teams.

I feel like they should rotate 1 out to help the others if they intend on keeping them. Iirc, this is what Germany did with Nurburgring & Hockenheimring, right?

COTA just signed a new deal & is a purpose-built track. The other 2 are street circuits that could be swapped with each other.

 

[Blitz24]

I feel like they should rotate 1 out to help the others if they intend on keeping them. Iirc, this is what Germany did with Nurburgring & Hockenheimring, right?

COTA just signed a new deal & is a purpose-built track. The other 2 are street circuits that could be swapped with each other.

Only issue you run into is if F1 is hell-bent at running 30 races in a year. That would mean they'd need 7 more races? Vegas makes it 24 so where next? If you want to avoid running multiple races at the same track but don't have anything against running another race in countries you already are in.... does that open up Donnington? Magny-Cours? Nurburging? Hockenheim? (Both?) Sepang? Fuji? That would get to 30 but I'm not sure F1 would get exactly what they want from those tracks ($$$$$$).

 

[McLaren]

Only issue you run into is if F1 is hell-bent at running 30 races in a year. That would mean they'd need 7 more races? Vegas makes it 24 so where next? If you want to avoid running multiple races at the same track but don't have anything against running another race in countries you already are in.... does that open up Donnington? Magny-Cours? Nurburging? Hockenheim? (Both?) Sepang? Fuji? That would get to 30 but I'm not sure F1 would get exactly what they want from those tracks ($$$$$$).

I didn't know that. I thought there were already some rumors going around that the teams/drivers didn't want to overload the schedule with races.

 

[sillybilly]

Why didn't the race director correct the positions of Perez and Sainz safely under safety car conditions?

New stance is 'do no action and take no blame' of the new race directorship team?

 

[rsh]

Teams and drivers needs to fix it first between each other.
If that doesn’t go well, the stewards will make the call.

The thought is to use more common sense, less politics and stimulate ownership instead of pointing and blaming the stewards or a race director.

 

[MatskiMonk]

does that open up Donnington?

It's only just recovered from the last attempt, which nearly forced its closure, and the required works were never completed. It's changed ownership since and is now part of the MSV group that owns Brands, Oulton, Cadwell and Snetterton. It's just had a load of money spent on it to turn it back into a respectable venue after the F1-works from 13 years ago left half the circuit as an abandoned building site - I'm not sure the circuit owners would be that quick to rip it up again, given the venue still has a couple of issues with hosting an event that size, and it'd probably require a commitment from someone to upgrade the road past the circuit and the airport to at least a dual-carriageway - which would be no small undertaking, given it connects to one of the UK's busiest roads at the other end.

Any secondary F1 bid in the UK is pretty much going to have to be based on a new circuit, or a street circuit.

We no longer get DTM or World Touring cars here, The SRO doesn't bring any Endurance races here, Creventic no longer bother, and Britcar seems to be a shadow of its former self. We get a Formula E race run on service roads at the back of an exhibition centre. In my personal opinion, the domestic circuit owners need to look at getting some events back that we've lost, before going broke ruining their venues for the sake of an F1 race.

 

[NICKname]

I didn't know that. I thought there were already some rumors going around that the teams/drivers didn't want to overload the schedule with races.

The teams have already agreed to 25 races. 30 races is probably the long term goal but they should be up to 25 races next year with Las Vegas, Qatar and China on top of the current 22. If they can make that work the path to 30 races is wide open.

Speaking of Las Vegas, doesn't that track layout vaguely resemble Tokyo R246 reverse?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I do wonder how much of the social media reaction to the time is from new European fans. If you started following in 2020, you haven't yet had to watch a race in China, Japan, Australia, or even going back some years but Malaysia. Vietnam would have been another early race, and Bahrain used to be as well. It should be normal practice really, it is a WORLD Championship after all and not a European Championship.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I loved the days when I'd have to wake up at like 3am to catch the Australian Grand Prix, but then they got boring and made it 5 or 6am start time in the UK. I think Suzuka especially looks awful in the orange glow of sunsets, and would prefer them to race towards the middle of the day.
I appreciate that for other parts of the world that is annoyingly normal, but the middle-of-the-night races are fun when they're a novelty rather than the norm. I'm looking forward to the 4am Vegas GP.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Do you know what I'm looking forward to most about the Australian Grand Prix?

Racing in the day. There are too many night races and we've just had 5 in a row. With Singapore returning and Vegas planning to be a night race as well, we're losing daylight races.

Singapore was unique when it came in, Bahrain's switch suddenly dramatically improved the quality of racing at that circuit, so night races in the desert make sense, but it's getting oversaturated now.

 

[sillybilly]

Teams and drivers needs to fix it first between each other.
If that doesn’t go well, the stewards will make the call.

The thought is to use more common sense, less politics and stimulate ownership instead of pointing and blaming the stewards or a race director.

I think the idea of teams self managing is going to blow up later when the title stakes get a bit higher and contenders are involved.

The teams can't correct the positions while running under the safety car as passing would be against the rules. It would I think be within the rules - maybe previous rules - for the race director to be able to correct this so that cars are at the correct order at the restart.

To restart with cars out of order seems super illogical and borderline dangerous. A driver will strategically wait for a whole lap or number of laps before giving up the position... especially if there is vagueness in the rules for timeframes to allow the teams to fix before the steward's issue penalties - because they are saying they will give 'time' for the team to fix, but how much time? If a driver is allowed a couple of laps then they can wait until DRS is active and strategically yield the position approaching a DRS line.

Then they will invent rules about gaining an advantage from giving up a position strategically.

I think they should not be allowed to give up positions strategically, I think Red Bull's radio message last year to Max to give up the position strategically led to the malarky and collision, and it was legal but not good sportsmanship and should not be allowed.

 

[rsh]

Do you refer to the moment where Mercedes where busy on their own lines and didn’t respond to Masi? And then Lewis hit Max from behind?

I believe that was the main reason to change the process. Don’t wait for the rules to be heard by the race director, use common sense first.
I agree with you that I first need to see how all of this works out.
Can’t say yet if I am positive or negative about it.

 

[Famine]

Lewis hit Max from behind

Even Helmut Marko admits "Max" was at fault.

Even. Helmut. Marko.

 

[sillybilly]

Do you refer to the moment where Mercedes where busy on their own lines and didn’t respond to Masi? And then Lewis hit Max from behind?

I believe that was the main reason to change the process. Don’t wait for the rules to be heard by the race director, use common sense first.
I agree with you that I first need to see how all of this works out.
Can’t say yet if I am positive or negative about it.

Seems to me a weird solution to the problem...

last years problems was multi-fold in my optinion:

1. Race director / Stewards too a ridiculously long time to request the position fix and there was some back and forth with team whinge messages. It should have been

2. Red Bull asking Max to give up the position strategically was logical but in bad taste. He's a driver it's his job to be sensible and strategic - but the tone of their message was a bit more malicious in terms to trying to disadvantage Hamilton. Remember Max made the mistake he was wrongfully in a position of advantage and there was no reason for Hamilton to be disadvantaged.

3. Merc might have have messed up and not heard the message. I didn't know about this, I thought the race director did not send them a message basically the time Max was trying slow down at an illogical place on the track to be strategic.


So for that incident I give them all a yellow card.


Common sense would not have helped because the steward's set a precedent the previous race that it was ok for Max to run off track and not give back the position.

They can't rely on common sense, the race directors and steward's should just try to be more accurate and consistent.. Do a better job, instead they are copping out.