So, ''zero progression In GT5 loss of grip'', when was the last time you guys played GT5? tried 2.10 yet? Now I'm tired of this but I'll say it again, Loss of grip that takes ages to correct is not realistic, GT5 has this much better now, it's snappy and progressive depending on the car, then in FM4 all cars, inlcuding lmps start drifting around like some random NFS title and to make things worse, it's as easy as Mario Kart to handle the oversteer, everybody can drift in FM4. These are my biggest issues with FM4:
Yes I have tried 2.10 and while it (and 2.09) are both a step in the right direction its still not addressed the fundamental issues that exist with the GT5 tyre model and its not progressive to me at all. Nor has it changed the fact (and it is one) that GT5 tyres use a simple grip value and changing compounds acts as nothing more than a grip multiplier. That you can have a Mini Cooper and a 'vette getting the same lat-g on the same compound points to some serious and fundamental issues with GT5's tyre model.
A issue that can be clearly demonstrated by a simple standing start burn-out in both titles. In FM4 the suspension and tyre model will simulate the torque steer that occurs in these situations, in GT5 the car will simply spin the tyres up and at some point fudge the grip and then take off in a perfectly straight line.
Now while I am the first to admit that neither title gets it right, comments such as "in FM4 all cars, inlcuding lmps start drifting around like some random NFS title" and "it's as easy as Mario Kart to handle the oversteer" do little more than make me question your own time with FM4, as neither of these statements is close to being accurate.
-Cars are way too loose to be releastic, leading to excesive steering and overall arcade type of gameplay
Sorry but I can't agree with that at all. Again its not perfect (no sim is) but its most certainly not arcade either.
-Brakes are just wrong, Scaff did post some interesting points but let's be honest here, when you are playing FM4, your visual judgement tells you to start braking at a certain point, usually this point works just fine with GT5, on FM4 you just end up braking too early and this judgement comes from real life experience so maybe FM4's graphics are so ****ed up that it alters your perception abilities, either that or braking is wrong all together.
No they are not wrong (and strictly speaking brakes don't determine how quickly a car stops - your tyres do unless your brakes are not capable of exceeding the grip limit of the tyres).
I do however find it interesting that you were quite quick to berate hennessey86 for as you put it ''It's not true, this is my truth'', yet you are quite happy to do the same.
As Wolfe has said this seems to be an issue with your perception of the braking distances within FM4, that doesn't make the physics wrong.
-Super glue grass, there's no excuse for this, it's wrong at soooo many levels that it takes the ''simulator'' title out of the question. People liked to point out GT5 bad collision physics and damage and said it couldn't be called a simulator because of that, well this is the same situation isn't it?
The superglue grass in FM4 is a pain, but its often overstated as to how much of it exists and certainly doesn't stop it being called a simulator. Once again I find it odd that you are arguing then even with the issues with collision, etc. in GT5 you are OK with it being a sim, but FM4 can't be one because of its grass?
You are certainly not applying a consistent standard here at all (odd because that seems to also be what your complaining about).
-Tracks are poorly modeled, too wide and too clean, again, no excuse for that.
One track is too wide, poorly modeled and too clean. Everyone here knows what that one is and quite frankly you will not find anyone disagreeing with that. However its a massive leap to then say that applies across the rest of the track and it has nothing to do with the physics at all.
These are only the physics related ones, I don't like a lot of things in FM4, including car list, sounds and graphics
Got to ask, why do you bother with it then?
I mean most of us here are quite happy to talk about the pros and cons of both titles, but it would seem that FM4 has almost no pros for yourself, given that you may feel more at home at our sister site gtplanet.
What do you think about the "braking distance" and controllability of using the handbrake? I don't remember much about GT5's handbrake other than its ability to "fix" the understeery handling in tight corners -- for example, it allowed you to ace certain license tests with ease -- but in FM4/Horizon, you can hang onto the handbrake for ages going into a corner. It may have more to do with kinetics than tire modelling, but countersteer is almost always enough to keep you floating along, and prevent you from backing into a spin. It's quite drift-friendly, which may be intentional, but I'm not quite sure what the game is doing to pull it off.
The handbrake in both is pretty much messed up. They work OK for a quick 'tug' but anything that would require any more than that (such as a realistic representation of a handbrake turn) just doesn't work right. Enthusia still does it better and so does WRC3 (a shame the rest of that title is so iffy).
Lets be honest neither of them still gets it quite as well as this does....
...but for my money FM4 gets a damn sight closer than GT5.
I have however put a quick FM4 version together:
