Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[artboy76]

The thing with GT5 is this, we have a minority of players like this in Forza aswell but its worse by a massive amount in GT5, most Forza players are intelligent to know the simple fact that its a game, a very very good game and a great interpretation of driving, tuning etc......

But with a huge amount of GT5 players, well they really do believe that hand on heart, if they are lapping N'burg ring in record time in a Zonda.......this is proof that they could do exactly the same in real life......... the fact most of the GT5 folks i've come across probably dont even drive a car yet on the roads let alone a decent car or a race car is of no consequence to them.
They are fast on GT5 racing pixels around a track governed by some shonky mathimatical physics equations......but it IS the REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.....So therefore they are proving that they are awesome drivers.......

That is the biggest issue when you enter the great FORZA v GT debate....you are effectively debating with fools that strongly believe that GT5 is so acurate and so real that everything they can do in a car of any performance level in that game is exactly what they would achieve were they let lose on a track in real life with one....you can not debate rationally with folks like that.

Seriously you may think im being flippant but i have read on forums posts from manchilds who with no hint of irony claim that GT5 does in fact have better physics than real life..... in fact they can argue that point that real life physics are wrong and GT5 is right.....

this is what your up against.....

 

[imported_phillkillv2]

From what I've experienced in Autocross Forza 4 feels the best. I know Autocross isn't really pushing the car I've experienced alot of things that you wouldn't normally experience while driving lets say to the store. I've spun out a bit revving too much through corners.

 

[somebodysb2]

The thing with GT5 is this, we have a minority of players like this in Forza aswell but its worse by a massive amount in GT5, most Forza players are intelligent to know the simple fact that its a game, a very very good game and a great interpretation of driving, tuning etc......

But with a huge amount of GT5 players, well they really do believe that hand on heart, if they are lapping N'burg ring in record time in a Zonda.......this is proof that they could do exactly the same in real life......... the fact most of the GT5 folks i've come across probably dont even drive a car yet on the roads let alone a decent car or a race car is of no consequence to them.
They are fast on GT5 racing pixels around a track governed by some shonky mathimatical physics equations......but it IS the REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.....So therefore they are proving that they are awesome drivers.......

That is the biggest issue when you enter the great FORZA v GT debate....you are effectively debating with fools that strongly believe that GT5 is so acurate and so real that everything they can do in a car of any performance level in that game is exactly what they would achieve were they let lose on a track in real life with one....you can not debate rationally with folks like that.

Seriously you may think im being flippant but i have read on forums posts from manchilds who with no hint of irony claim that GT5 does in fact have better physics than real life..... in fact they can argue that point that real life physics are wrong and GT5 is right.....

this is what your up against.....

Thing is, you do realize just how many real race drivers use sim racing as a tool to learn the track? Not just talking about GT here, but any game that has X car & Y track in it. I can tell you that ALL the drivers of Clio Cup China hopped onto a sim to practice for the two events @Le Mans/Ring, ALL of the drivers at Macau use RACE Pro for training, (hell, I was at the games store today and out came a guy in a suit asking for a game with Macau in it, my guess a N class or Roadsport driver). And all this in within my area alone, imagine sim racers in germany who go to the ring, this is a big big deal for them.

I feel that it is this "sim to track" revolution has sparked the fanboy phenomena (or group script to a lesser extent). Its like how DICE used real soldiers input in BF3 and now everybody thinks BF3 is 100% real.

 

[GT6mebe]

just pop over GTP and that reminded me how devoted their fanbase are, when they seem happy to pay $4 for 4 cars.

Thats because one year later, PD are still updating the game considerably and introducing DLC which was NEVER planned. That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC. Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.

While people are still saying physics is superior when the tire grip, tire wear, reverse suspension tuning, instant on/off clutch issues are still staring at their faces.

No one said it was perfect, they said superior. Go to GTP people still complain about above issues and I am sure Pd have or will recognise them

I am thankful the forza community isn't as fanatec.

GT has a great community, one of the largest if the largest in the racing genre. It has a huge following and fans that realise how great the title or series is too them. I think this is what makes PD so devoted: the fans not the haters or trolls but the fans who do criticise but constructively.

Make it pretty clear that a large group of people who prefer GT over FM still haven't even tried the latter. Which is sad, really, because both games are good in their own different ways, but I find it's much easier to compare the two here, as the vast majority of us have played both games, something which is seeming increasingly rare.

If you honestly think that a forum called FORZA PLANET is not going to be forza biased then I think you need to wake up.

Any driving game that cant even allow you to change your tire pressures is fundamentally flawed. Kaz races IRL he would know the importance of tire pressures, it can be after all the mods and tuning...the one deciding factor on a win or a loss....yet its not there in GT5!!!!

I did not know that in IRL during races the space time continuum freezes and that weather on Earth is always sunny as it is in Forza 4.

Before today, I've never even heard of "ROLECKS", but yeah I've been dealing with that all day yesterday from people who haven't a clue what they're even talking about.

Oh yes, and you do dont you. Especially with such educated responses like this:

Or, you know, the DLC is planned ahead of time and wouldn't be completed by the time the discs are printed.

Of course, you probably knew that. I'll also presume you knew you paid to unlock two (three?) cars that were already available in the game for free (in Arcade Mode) for use within the entire game.

If you had any sense you would know that those karts only arrived after an installation of spec 2 update so were not on the disc originally.

In that thread you were constantly trying to defend Turn 10 about their greediness which amuses me.

Your telling me that in two months turn 10 were able to model 20 cars but were only able to model 90 or so cars in two years

Not only that but the aventador's gauges were shown half a year ago....yet Turn 10 could not make the deadline for one car in 6 months; but dont worry it coincidentally appeared in the first car pack.

See the problem with you is you lack of comprehension. People do not mind dlc not matter how stupid it is, like for instance paints in GT5 because it is optional. What people do mind is how close the dlc is released within the game s launch a la Forza 4 which had pre planned dlc 1 month later.

Your rebuttal about the scirocco in GT5 was pathetic too; the words "Missed in the last minute" do not prove PD did the same thing as Turn 10. Lets suppose your right though, because even if they did they did not release it straight away because DLC was never planned. It was only due to huge fan outcry that DLC was given.

I would also like to see your excuses for season passes ( lot of other devs do it is not good enough), car tokens, oh yes and of course the wonderful ultimate collection

 

[Killer46]

The thing with GT5 is this, we have a minority of players like this in Forza aswell but its worse by a massive amount in GT5, most Forza players are intelligent to know the simple fact that its a game, a very very good game and a great interpretation of driving, tuning etc......

But with a huge amount of GT5 players, well they really do believe that hand on heart, if they are lapping N'burg ring in record time in a Zonda.......this is proof that they could do exactly the same in real life......... the fact most of the GT5 folks i've come across probably dont even drive a car yet on the roads let alone a decent car or a race car is of no consequence to them.
They are fast on GT5 racing pixels around a track governed by some shonky mathimatical physics equations......but it IS the REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.....So therefore they are proving that they are awesome drivers.......

That is the biggest issue when you enter the great FORZA v GT debate....you are effectively debating with fools that strongly believe that GT5 is so acurate and so real that everything they can do in a car of any performance level in that game is exactly what they would achieve were they let lose on a track in real life with one....you can not debate rationally with folks like that.

Seriously you may think im being flippant but i have read on forums posts from manchilds who with no hint of irony claim that GT5 does in fact have better physics than real life..... in fact they can argue that point that real life physics are wrong and GT5 is right.....

this is what your up against.....

Are you talking about the kind of people who think GT is more realistic than real life?

Yea, no point arguing with people like that.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

The thing with GT5 is this, we have a minority of players like this in Forza aswell but its worse by a massive amount in GT5, most Forza players are intelligent to know the simple fact that its a game, a very very good game and a great interpretation of driving, tuning etc......

But with a huge amount of GT5 players, well they really do believe that hand on heart, if they are lapping N'burg ring in record time in a Zonda.......this is proof that they could do exactly the same in real life......... the fact most of the GT5 folks i've come across probably dont even drive a car yet on the roads let alone a decent car or a race car is of no consequence to them.
They are fast on GT5 racing pixels around a track governed by some shonky mathimatical physics equations......but it IS the REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.....So therefore they are proving that they are awesome drivers.......

That is the biggest issue when you enter the great FORZA v GT debate....you are effectively debating with fools that strongly believe that GT5 is so acurate and so real that everything they can do in a car of any performance level in that game is exactly what they would achieve were they let lose on a track in real life with one....you can not debate rationally with folks like that.

Seriously you may think im being flippant but i have read on forums posts from manchilds who with no hint of irony claim that GT5 does in fact have better physics than real life..... in fact they can argue that point that real life physics are wrong and GT5 is right.....

this is what your up against.....

^^^what he said and...

PD has built quite a reputation in the GT series and a very large fan following without a doubt. Sony has sold many a PS3 primarily because of the GT series alone - myself included. T10 with Forza, especially with FM4, has a momentum that could seriously challenge PD, "in time". It won't happen overnight especially with the "perception" that GT is the best thing since sliced bread! Many (mostly the immature) don't want to believe, and refuse to even consider, that another game on another platform could be better than what they have. The GT crowd is rabid and PD is one happy developer!

As I have said before, I am a virtual racing/driving enthusiasts FIRST, which tool I use to satisfy my appetite is irrelevant. I honestly don't think I drink any developers kool-aid.

EDIT:

Thats because one year later, PD are still updating the game considerably and introducing DLC which was NEVER planned. That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC. Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.
...

I will give this one to PD and they do deserve some credit. But most developers don't have PD's support (Sony) and sales to follow suit. If T10 (and Microsoft) can learn anything from PD is this continued support and feed the machine - build the fan (fanboy :-)) base and the rest will follow ($$$). But it will take time to "enlighten" that masses to the virtues of the FM series. To turn "perception" into reality.

 

[PzR Slim]

Thats because one year later, PD are still updating the game considerably and introducing DLC which was NEVER planned. That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC. Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.

As they should, that's what should happen when you release an unfinished game. Still a ways to go what with the missing features still on the back of my three games cases.

GT has a great community, one of the largest if the largest in the racing genre. It has a huge following and fans that realise how great the title or series is too them. I think this is what makes PD so devoted: the fans not the haters or trolls but the fans who do criticise but constructively.

It also has a huge number who would fall on their knees claiming greatness if PD served up a turd on a plate, then again most games have fans like that, but GT has some of the most extreme.

If you honestly think that a forum called FORZA PLANET is not going to be forza biased then I think you need to wake up.

That wasn't his point. The vast majority of people posting here made their way here from GT Planet. They have played both games. A large number of GT fans over there have never played FM. That was the point.

I did not know that in IRL during races the space time continuum freezes and that weather on Earth is always sunny as it is in Forza 4.

So you use an issue that is also present in the vast majority of GT5's tracks to bash FM4. GT5 doesn't have any ability to change tyre pressures. Which if you ask most people in motorsport is one of the most important options available to you when setting up a car.

See the problem with you is you lack of comprehension. People do not mind dlc not matter how stupid it is, like for instance paints in GT5 because it is optional. What people do mind is how close the dlc is released within the game s launch a la Forza 4 which had pre planned dlc 1 month later.

So people don't mind how stupid DLC is.....except for you of course who do mind about FM4's DLC. This is a contradiction, so which is it?

I would also like to see your excuses for season passes ( lot of other devs do it is not good enough), car tokens, oh yes and of course the wonderful ultimate collection

Why does a season pass need an excuse? The ability to purchase all DLC at a cheaper price than if you bought them individually. Surely anybody who 'do not mind dlc not matter how stupid it is', would be chomping at the bit to get it all cheaper. A huge number of FM and GT fans will buy all of the DLC released for the respective games. Why is it wrong for T10 to offer a way of getting it cheaper?

 

[artboy76]

Ability to change my virtual tire pressures in game, or ability to have a few tracks with rain effects?

Tire pressures please. Were i to pick my ideal weather for my real life track days......guess what weather i'd choose.................................

Same as my karting days, give me bright sunshine and i'm happy as pig in muck, rain and grey i'd always rather of stayed at home...... diff strokes for diff folks but i am lucky as in my virtual world i want sunshine and dry track please...lol.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Thats because one year later, PD are still updating the game considerably and introducing DLC which was NEVER planned. That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC. Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.

PD is also well-known for moving much, much slower than just about any other company (surely more true in the racing genre). So the fact they're just getting around to DLC when most games' add-on support would be starting to dwindle shouldn't surprise many. I'm happy they're supporting it, but I'm still wondering where my leaderboards are for more than just a handful of seasonals.

GT has a great community, one of the largest if the largest in the racing genre. It has a huge following and fans that realise how great the title or series is too them. I think this is what makes PD so devoted: the fans not the haters or trolls but the fans who do criticise but constructively.

Many of us do criticise constructively. I've been playing the GT series for over 13 years, and it was my default racing game until two months ago. I want to see it succeed, but every year it moves further away from what I'm looking for in the genre these days. The time and weather changes are welcome, but the awful idea of recycling near-decade old content from the previous generation wasn't.

If you honestly think that a forum called FORZA PLANET is not going to be forza biased then I think you need to wake up.

By that same token, you expect fair and balanced review on GTP? As already mentioned, the vast majority of our members came from GTP - most of us have at least played both games. As the thread I linked to earlier shows, that can't be said of GT fans.

I did not know that in IRL during races the space time continuum freezes and that weather on Earth is always sunny as it is in Forza 4.

Up until GT5's release, that's exactly what the GT series did, too. I didn't realize that attaching the same tires to a Mini would net the same lateral grip as those tires would on a Vette ZR1, either, but if GT does it, does that make it true? This is where your line of reasoning ends up.

If you had any sense you would know that those karts only arrived after an installation of spec 2 update so were not on the disc originally.

His point was that those karts were available in Arcade Mode at the moment one had finished installing the 2.00 patch. You had to pay to unlock them in any other mode.

In that thread you were constantly trying to defend Turn 10 about their greediness which amuses me.

Your telling me that in two months turn 10 were able to model 20 cars but were only able to model 90 or so cars in two years

I don't think anybody's arguing that the DLC pack contents are probably, at least partially, made well in advance. I wouldn't want either PD or T10 making 10 new models in just a month, as the quality would be questionable. But on the topic of greediness - $2.00 for 100 one-time-use paints, where I have to pay $2.00 again if I want to re-use even one, is alright?

Not only that but the aventador's gauges were shown half a year ago....yet Turn 10 could not make the deadline for one car in 6 months; but dont worry it coincidentally appeared in the first car pack.

Kaz said before GT5's actual release that the HSV-010 wasn't included because while they were working on it, they couldn't finish before the game went gold. Over a year later...

See the problem with you is you lack of comprehension. People do not mind dlc not matter how stupid it is, like for instance paints in GT5 because it is optional. What people do mind is how close the dlc is released within the game s launch a la Forza 4 which had pre planned dlc 1 month later.

T10's work model is very different from PD's. If PD did plan on releasing DLC on a regular basis, having cars ready a month after release is not a bad thing (nevermind that I doubt GT fanatics such as yourself would've been bothered if they did it so soon, despite it being an apparent problem if T10 does). It's not hard to imagine even with their six-month creation, car models are finished on a regular basis each week or month. This can create a steady stream of new content that can be packaged off each month or two.

Kaz' statement that DLC will now be bi-monthly leads many to believe that while their attitude on DLC has changed, and it now, funnily enough, reflects Forza. Releasing the game doesn't (and shouldn't) mean all new content creation should be halted.

Your rebuttal about the scirocco in GT5 was pathetic too; the words "Missed in the last minute" do not prove PD did the same thing as Turn 10. Lets suppose your right though, because even if they did they did not release it straight away because DLC was never planned. It was only due to huge fan outcry that DLC was given.

Kaz himself said that about the Scirocco. And I'll admit, it's fantastic PD are listening to their fans in regards to DLC. And fixing the awful situation with the first DLC pack. Speaking of listening to the fans, are you aware of FM3's Forzalopnik car pack?

I would also like to see your excuses for season passes ( lot of other devs do it is not good enough), car tokens, oh yes and of course the wonderful ultimate collection

I'd consider the ultimate collection a valid argument if the same thing happens for FM4 (and I'll admit to being very annoyed if it does). Car tokens are a great idea, and GT wouldn't hurt to have them included - some people don't want to spend hours in-game grinding to drive a single car. Yes, just drive, because in GT, a good chunk of cars aren't even available for you to drive at all without buying them. In Forza, car tokens exist if you want to tune or paint a particular model and don't want to grind for the in-game credits, because every car is available to drive in Arcade Mode.

The season pass provides a discount on the six DLC packs (which now has turned into seven since the first was given to all members). If PD's holding their word on DLC bi-monthly, and would actually let us know what it would entail, I imagine a lot of players would jump at the chance to drop money in advance for a discount.

Well, considering the lackluster content of this first "new car" DLC pack, maybe some wouldn't. I paid for the FM4 Season Pass despite never playing Forza before because I had looked at FM3's DLC packs and realized the huge variety they brought. PD doesn't seem as interested in the variety, at least going on the basis of this first pack. I sincerely hope that changes though, because after re-visiting the game with friends last night, it's still very fun in the right circumstances.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

While I see many on ForzaPlanet discussing the pros & cons of this new FM release, I am only seeing one-sided contributions from you @Maxrelaxing. You have every right to be here, I am not questioning that, but why? You "seem" to be the model of the GT player many are talking of.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Fanatic. Fanatec is the wheel. But close enough.

But yeah I was reading about the new DLC for GT5 and its pathetic. The update looks good, but the DLC is laughable. And yes, people are actually thanking PD for the blessing of the DLC. Yes, I also believe Forza fans would be utterly pissed about getting 4 cars (especially one of which a GTR with already tons in the game) as a DLC for 4 bucks.

Some people were pissed when the car pack price upped to 560MSP from 400MSP. I think the PD & T10 cars cost roughly the same to us buyers, I think the main difference is the T10 pack are more interesting and mostly have at least one or two cars that most individuals sees as a welcome addition to the game.

To put that into perspective, the Mini, Golf and Scirocco from the latest PD pack have all been the free cars from the T10 packs at some point. I think the only one T10 would charge for would be the 2011 GT-R, and even then chances of that are slim because the trend for them is not to charge for cars that are updates of cars already on the disc.

 

[t.o.]

Thats because one year later, PD are still updating the game considerably and introducing DLC which was NEVER planned. That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC. Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.

I've read the whole post and all the replies that followed but I could not get THIS part out of my head to concentrate. You actually typed this with a sense of they're doing something good for us that they didn't have to do??? You mean they were NEVER planning to finish GT5? That was supposed to be it? WOW what people accept. You got to be kidding me. Oh there was one other posts that stuck in my head ....

GT has a great community, one of the largest if the largest in the racing genre. It has a huge following and fans that realise how great the title or series is too them. I think this is what makes PD so devoted: the fans not the haters or trolls but the fans who do criticise but constructively

I doubt all 10 of them made any difference. You might have to chalk these updates to some haters or as I call them "pissed off intelligent consumers who don't have GT5 stamped to their forehead like the mark of the beast"

 

[omgitsbees]

I wish the fanboys on GTP would just admit they bought a **** game. It's cool if you like it, but don't be dishonest about the quality. The game really is piss poor quality, and all of the patches and DLC a year later is not going to change that fact.

 

[Imari]

I wish the fanboys on GTP would just admit they bought a **** game. It's cool if you like it, but don't be dishonest about the quality. The game really is piss poor quality, and all of the patches and DLC a year later is not going to change that fact.

I don't know that it's that bad. GT5 does have some redeeming features, like most games. My favourite console racers are Shift 2, F1 2011 and Ferrari Challenge, all of which are often described as piles of excrement. They have flaws, but the good parts make them worth playing to me. And the same with GT5. It's not great, but there's still stuff there worth coming back to.

The difference is that some people are able to enjoy something and still discuss it's flaws rationally, and others are unable to help themselves from defending a game they like from any criticism, however justified it may be.

GT5 is a decent game, in my opinion. It's just not on the same level of previous iterations of the franchise (which is where the disappointment come in), and neither is it on the same level as FM4.

 

[cuco33]

Thats because one year later, PD are still updating the game considerably and introducing DLC which was NEVER planned. That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC. Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.

PD aren't the only ones who support a racer a year from launch. T10 was active hosting various community events and releasing DLC through a year with FM3 and stated they would do the same with FM4. I believe one of the reasons why PD has continued to patch and support GT5 because GT5 was not the grand vision of GT5 that Kaz had, and was embarassed for porting the bulk of content, archaic menus, and required numerous patches to update a title 5+yrs in development yet launched unfinished.. It is GT btw, and GT is Sony's biggest franchise to date, across all generations even. Not updating the title would mean many folks would jump ship to the competing platform and competing game (many have already)

I did not know that in IRL during races the space time continuum freezes and that weather on Earth is always sunny as it is in Forza 4.

Funny, because last I checked there are 2 real world tracks only in GT5 that have dynamic time shift so I supposed time doesn't stop for those tracks but does for the remaining ones?

If you had any sense you would know that those karts only arrived after an installation of spec 2 update so were not on the disc originally.

In that thread you were constantly trying to defend Turn 10 about their greediness which amuses me.

Your telling me that in two months turn 10 were able to model 20 cars but were only able to model 90 or so cars in two years

Not only that but the aventador's gauges were shown half a year ago....yet Turn 10 could not make the deadline for one car in 6 months; but dont worry it coincidentally appeared in the first car pack.

See the problem with you is you lack of comprehension. People do not mind dlc not matter how stupid it is, like for instance paints in GT5 because it is optional. What people do mind is how close the dlc is released within the game s launch a la Forza 4 which had pre planned dlc 1 month later.

Your rebuttal about the scirocco in GT5 was pathetic too; the words "Missed in the last minute" do not prove PD did the same thing as Turn 10. Lets suppose your right though, because even if they did they did not release it straight away because DLC was never planned. It was only due to huge fan outcry that DLC was given.

I would also like to see your excuses for season passes ( lot of other devs do it is not good enough), car tokens, oh yes and of course the wonderful ultimate collection

T10 announced before Forza 3 that they would be doing monthly DLC and released 11 of 12 DLC packs, mixed of cars and tracks, mostly cars. T10 announced again that Forza 4 would follow similar route. There are 90 new cars to the series but a ton of FM3 DLC actually came in as cars available on the FM4 disk. All cars were remodeled to be higher polys working under the new lighting engine. FM4 also added and tweaked many features in the game improving upon the experience to every degree.
I actually like the DLC as long as it's not a joke and something I want. So far T10 has impressed with their DLC model and the only thing that impressed me about PD's GT5 DLC was the track pack. One time use paint chips, race suits, helmets... really? And the DLC cars... a tweaked X1, 3 fictional KARTS and they sold you 11 RACE MODS of cars that existed in the game... a game which boasted "1000+ cars" where only 19 were race moddable.... GT5's next DLC looks rather disappointing as well. Everyone's getting the GT 86 form my understanding so you pay $4 for another Skyline, 2 VW hatchbacks that are built VERY similarly and a variant of a Mini Cooper S...

I think car tokens are a joke in FM4 and is nothing more than a cash grab. Season pass gives you discount on DLC and if you plan to buy all DLC then the season pass will be cheaper in the long run. I look at season pass as 'preorder' type of thing. I also did not appreciate the exclusive content to the FM3UC as I was an early adopter, LCE/VIP owner, buying almost all DLC, and would have to repurchase the FM3UC to get access to those exclusive cars

See, some folks here, like myself, can see the good and bad of both titles. Some will just defend their preferred title/platform regardless of the facts.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

If you look at the frequency of the latest (fall of 2011) PD updates (DLC's, patches, etc.) there is something that is clearly evident - PD is VERY aware of FM4 and the level that the competition as risen to. FM4 has been very good for GT fans. T10 is pushing PD just like PD "may" push T10 with GT6. We all benefit 👍
Some of the things that made the PS3 attractive as a virtual racing platform is waning - one being a good selection of wheels. Xbox is now becoming more attractive because of the new hardware options and the cross-platform software in most cases run better on the Xbox (S2U, F1 2011, etc.). The developer community just has not been able to produce as efficiently on the PS3 even though the PS3 is suppose to be technically more advanced. The end result is what matters and the Xbox gamers are reaping the benefits.

 

[t.o.]

I think car tokens are a joke in FM4 and is nothing more than a cash grab. Season pass gives you discount on DLC and if you plan to buy all DLC then the season pass will be cheaper in the long run. I look at season pass as 'preorder' type of thing. I also did not appreciate the exclusive content to the FM3UC as I was an early adopter, LCE/VIP owner, buying almost all DLC, and would have to repurchase the FM3UC to get access to those exclusive cars

Car tokens would be an outrage IF you could only get certain cars by using them. Since this is not the case I could care less about the car tokens and actually like the idea. If the added revenue helps FM5 then so be it. I for one will not be buying tokens, ever. But if someone wants to that their money. Infact I even know a guy who did it and I was surprised he did. Didn't say anything but hey that's his cash. On the flip side if you truly don't have the time to get anywhere near the cash you need for your favorite cars I guess I can see the benefit of it.

If you look at the frequency of the latest (fall of 2011) PD updates (DLC's, patches, etc.) there is something that is clearly evident - PD is VERY aware of FM4 and the level that the competition as risen to. FM4 has been very good for GT fans. T10 is pushing PD just like PD "may" push T10 with GT6. We all benefit 👍

This was another reason I was so ticked off about GT5. I posted this elsewhere, GT5 could have opened up a door of laziness for Turn10. It set the bar so low that FM4 could have mailed it in. Fortunately that wasn't the case.


EDIT: I should say fortunately that SEEMS to be the case. I just have this strange feeling that there was more on the table that Turn10 was going to come out with but were able to back off and not push the team to the limit because of GT5. Something tells me this, don't know why.

 

[Luminis]

That is why Gt fans approve because any DLC > no DLC.

Weren't you the one who faulted T10 for their DLC? So, what you actually mean is more like "any DLC > no DLC if it's GT", right?

Also please tell me a racing dev (not PC obviously) that continues to update their game, one year on.....I think PD do care about the name of Gran Turismo.

Name one that also has as many issues with their game left to fix. And one that takes as long to deliver a sequel, which makes that much fixing necessary in the first place.

No one said it was perfect, they said superior.

There seem to be enough people on GTP that actually do seem to think they are indeed perfect. And I'd doubt the "superior" bit, as well.

GT has a great community, one of the largest if the largest in the racing genre.

Eh... If the GT5 section of GTPlanet is anywhere near representative, then yes, it might be one of the largest, but great? I mean, most of the time, I make sure to avoid the GT5 section over there like the plague. But whenever I take a look, it seems like a huge gathering of... Well, of people who seem to be incredibly biased.

If you honestly think that a forum called FORZA PLANET is not going to be forza biased then I think you need to wake up.

Most of the members here have played GT5 or even still play it, a lot of the members are members of GTPlanet as well, with PSN IDs and everything. How many of the guys that are passing judgment on Forza over at GTPlanet do even own an Xbox? And how many have played the game they're judging at all?

I did not know that in IRL during races the space time continuum freezes and that weather on Earth is always sunny as it is in Forza 4.

Dunno, I always thought that tyres were actually filled with something called 'air' that actually has pressure and reacts to tyre temperatures, for example.

People do not mind dlc not matter how stupid it is, like for instance paints in GT5 because it is optional.

Was there a T10 employee included in your FM4 case that's continuously pointing a gun to your head, forcing you to buy everything?

I would also like to see your excuses for season passes ( lot of other devs do it is not good enough), car tokens, oh yes and of course the wonderful ultimate collection

How about your own excuse: It's all optional. And the season pass saves me quite a few bucks, too. See, being optional seems to be great to justify everything if it's GT5, but not so much for FM4, eh? Oh, I wonder why that is...

You "seem" to be the model of the GT player many are talking of.

I guess there needs to be at least one of them here, no?

As long as he's not one of the guys who are reffering to Kazunori as 'the Master' and such, it's okay

And yeah, I've read exactly that over at GTPlanet, quite a few times...

GT5 is a decent game, in my opinion. It's just not on the same level of previous iterations of the franchise (which is where the disappointment come in), and neither is it on the same level as FM4.

Yeah, that's pretty much it... However, most of the previous GT titles didn't get much competition. I wonder how things would've gone if T10 were around when GT1 was released...

If you look at the frequency of the latest (fall of 2011) PD updates (DLC's, patches, etc.) there is something that is clearly evident - PD is VERY aware of FM4 and the level that the competition as risen to.

Pd themselves seem to acknowledge FM4 as some actual competition, I guess- Much more so than most of the more die-hard PD/GT fans.

 

[Northstar]

EDIT: I should say fortunately that SEEMS to be the case. I just have this strange feeling that there was more on the table that Turn10 was going to come out with but were able to back off and not push the team to the limit because of GT5. Something tells me this, don't know why.

I know the feeling, I can't exactly put my finger on it either. I guess if I could I would be working for one of them.

Eh... If the GT5 section of GTPlanet is anywhere near representative, then yes, it might be one of the largest, but great? I mean, most of the time, I make sure to avoid the GT5 section over there like the plague. But whenever I take a look, it seems like a huge gathering of... Well, of people who seem to be incredibly biased.

To be fair, Forza's official forums are pretty biased as well(not to mention the terrible staff). I can't say much about GT's official forums as they don't really have any, just a subsection on Playstation's overall forum(which last time I visited, are terribly laid out).

So in closing, games in general have horrible, biased fanbases if you look at the super dedicated bunch and neither GT or Forza have good official forums, thankfully Jordan exists.

Was there a T10 employee included in your FM4 case that's continuously pointing a gun to your head, forcing you to buy everything?

You mean there wasn't one in yours?

 

[cuco33]

I don't post on fm's official forums. I do post here and occasionally dabble on forzaz central. I lurk all of them though. FM.net is like gtplanet, mostly filled with extreme fans of the series. Well in my view, gtp is worse but... that's my view. Say something negative about Forza at fm.net and you'll get similar responses as you'd get if you said something negative about gt on gtplanet.
Just one of those...

I'm glad that Forza exists, in my eyes the first real competition to GT franchise. It will make T10 and PD move forward properly and those who reap the benefits are the multiplatform owners who are into both franchises, like myself.

 

[Luminis]

To be fair, Forza's official forums are pretty biased as well(not to mention the terrible staff). I can't say much about GT's official forums as they don't really have any, just a subsection on Playstation's overall forum(which last time I visited, are terribly laid out).

So in closing, games in general have horrible, biased fanbases if you look at the super dedicated bunch and neither GT or Forza have good official forums, thankfully Jordan exists.

I haven't been active over at FM.net's forums for a year and a half, so I doon't know how things are around there, right now... Back in the FM3 days, though, the boards were mostly filled with complains towards T10.

Guess I'll have to take a look at the forums over there again, sometime

 

[omgitsbees]

The only time the Forza forums got kinda obnoxious was when GT5 came out, and it was nothing but threads about how Forza 3 was superior. It was, but still... I goto an official forum to talk about just that game, not the competition, as weak as it was at launch.

 

[Wolfe]

I don't post on fm's official forums. I do post here and occasionally dabble on forzaz central. I lurk all of them though. FM.net is like gtplanet, mostly filled with extreme fans of the series. Well in my view, gtp is worse but... that's my view. Say something negative about Forza at fm.net and you'll get similar responses as you'd get if you said something negative about gt on gtplanet.

I agree with what was said before about the members here having mostly emigrated from GTPlanet. We've played both series, and many of us were GT fans because it was around first -- it's an unusual demographic for a "dedicated" forum.

I don't think it's unfair to claim a degree of objectivity in comparing the two games. Obviously subjective opinion still plays into it.

 

[artboy76]

Well Ive said before I can list 20 things that could be better in Forza 4, and at least 5 of those are of a significant importance. I'm no blinkered forza fanboy, I also loved Shift 2 because despite its flaws, some game breaking, it had at its heart a great game almost and actually in racing terms had the beating of both Gt5 and Fm4... it is the better RACING game still..... but the issue with GT5 and it's problems is that I actually feel and felt cheated... ripped off, taken a mug for... both Shift 2 and especially Forza 3-4 have me thinking that I got more than I paid for in value and that's including both games DLC, I wanted to buy it, yet Gt5 just makes me want to boycott PD and Sony products.... GT5 like Simbin with Race Pro on Xbox 360 are both guilty of taking console gamers for fools... and those wounds take time to heal.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Back in the FM3 days, though, the boards were mostly filled with complains towards T10.

Not much has changed.
Nowhere near as bad as the whole FM3 "custom public lobby" saga/revolt though.

Still...You won't find many people painting Dan Greenawalt as a saint the same way they do at GTP for Kaz-San though. In fact you'll find it difficult to see his name brought up there at all since launch.

GT5 is a decent game, in my opinion.

Mine too, just could have been better with the assets PD already had in place and a little polish. Same can be said for FM4.

 

[cuco33]

Since you mentioned Dan Greenwalt and Yamauchi... one of the things I simply laughed at, even to this day, was how fans of the GT series were up in arms crying foul when DG stated 'definitive' a few times while promoting Forza 3, and these GT fans continued to neglect lines that PD/Sony tagged on the GT franchise such as 'the standard' and 'the real driving simulator'. Double standard much?!
I'm most glad for Forza franchise's existence as it pushes PD to make a better GT game and vice versa. I would not doubt that FM5 comes out on the next XBOX system and incorporates the extra features that GT5 still has over Forza 4 (even if inconsistent throughout the game) such as off road tracks, weather, dynamic time, maybe even a custom track editor. Likewise, I would not be surprised if things like a livery editor and an auction house of some sorts find it's way into GT.
Competition is best suited to the gamers.

 

[Luminis]

Likewise, I would not be surprised if things like a livery editor and an auction house of some sorts find it's way into GT.
Competition is best suited to the gamers.

I wouldn't be too sure of that... I have a nagging feeling that PD aren't creating these games to appeal to the audience but tailor them to their (or maybe just Kazunori's) taste.

That's the feeling I get when looking at the car list, for example...

 

[I'm Motarded]

Cusco.. It wasn't just the PD fans that mocked the "Definitive" thing, it was rife among the FM fans too, mainly on Neogaf, then it really spread from there I think. The same group really jumped on the use of the words "IBL" and "Incubated" from E3 this year.

As for the features you mentioned. I agree with everything apart from off-road tracks. I've never liked it since GT2, just feels like a lowered grip percentage, random gradients and sound effects. Back in the days before online multiplayer none of my GT playing friends weren't keen on it either. To do it properly would take to many man hours unless you bring in dirt physics specialists. the latter isn't something Turn 10 is afraid of or shy about doing so it could work. But I feel they've only just got the tarmac tyre physics right and should keep moving forward with that that and even more variables into the mix. I'm not a fan of the 'Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none-in-this-respect.

Good read about some intricacies of adding dirt into racing simulation..
http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/iracing-news/dave-kaemmer-comes-clean-on-dirt/

 

[DomasRC]

As for myself, I have PS3 and GT5 with G27. Fan of GT since GT2. Haven't touched it since release of F4. Playing with gamepad. Does this tell anything?

 

[cuco33]

You mentioned NeoGAF... tsk tsk lol (j/k). That reminds me... you guys remember Che?! Ughhhh...!! He was more involved on GAF than he was on FM's main site, and he was the community manager!!!

Believe me when I say it, GT fans were (and still are to a degree) up in arms over the 'definitive' talk. The mentality was 'how dare T10 (or anyone really) claim to be 'definitive' when not once they mentioned GT during their speaches but always it was the GT fans that were going crazy over PR speak! All while neglecting 'the standard' and 'the real driving simulator' lines!

I know some Forza fans didn't like the arrogant way. I didn't, but then again I've seen worse, much worse, and I know it's nothing more than PR speak. The GT fans on various sites I'm on... went ape****!