Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)
- Thread starter hennessey86
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I will never give a s*** about headlights details 'cause I drive with the hood view and generaly going forward so... 
Anyway, I bought these 2 games for the way they feel ''in game'', not for up close cosmetic details although I'll admit they are cool.
Anyway, I bought these 2 games for the way they feel ''in game'', not for up close cosmetic details although I'll admit they are cool.
- 1,732
- cuco33
Do the cars have this much detail
Not even GT5 has this level of detail throughout. Premium car on a new 'premium' track. And yes, Forza 4 can get that level of detail, on ALL the cars not just 200+/20% of them. Not that it really matters much since in game during racing both games do model swaps where in photo modes it looks a whole lot better than it does during racing.
My shots, albeit not super zoomed in:
GT5 - BMW E92 M3 - race replay
FM4 - Audi RS2 - race replay
What would happen if I tried to zoom in to a standard like my mk1 VW Rabbit?
Would that same level of gorgeous detail appear on a 2D pasted image onto a low quality model with less detail?
I don't think many were touched up. A few, sure, like the Belinette, the Suzuki Alto Works and a few other horribly modeled econoboxes but my VW Rabbit GTI, VW Lupo, Audi quattro coupe, etc etc all still have the same modeling issues, the same jagged pillars, the same missing textures in the models, etc that's been there since launch 13+ months ago. Some might get touched up but the majority of the standards won't. I'm amazed the Lupo wasn't even touched up but the Belinette and the Suzuki Alto Works were. There's A and B spec events specific to the Lupo!!! And those races were the biggest and most obvious eye openers to me about the whole car split since as you drive by a Lupo the jagged hatch pillar looks like a moving escalator!
Forza also has no premium cars unfortunately
It sound to me like your one of those rabid forza fans. Afraid of some criticism or questioning of your precious game.
I have played Forza 4....do not own it though.
Please show me a shot of such detail on a headlight in Forza 4 please (honestly was a genuine question but it seems most the people on this thread take any insult to Forza 4 personally).
So I see it looks like you have given up and are admitting that GT5 premiums have a greater level of detail than Forza cars. Well that was easy.
What PD did with GT5's car split was never done, on any platform, in any genre, of any generation to date. I'm glad T10 didn't go on splitting up content into 'premiums' and 'standards'. It's also obvious to me why GT5 has only been shown off in premium car/track form only.
I also highly doubt you've played FM4. Sorry, but a demo at a GameStop/Best Buy kiosk does not count. It wasn't a genuine question, but rather a trolling/flame baiting one. Most people take your posts as that because you aren't really level headed here and nothing more than a brand loyalist.
Rabid forza fans? Define irony...
And to answer your last question, yes the 20% of GT5's premiums are of greater level of detail when compared to all 100% of Forza 4's cars. Under certain conditions, I still think GT5 is the best looking racer to date. Even when not racing and in photo travel mode with the right camera settings it looks stunning, photo-realistic even, something that's very hard (for me at least) to get to that level in FM4. Sadly this isn't the norm in GT5. When 80% of your cars are lower quality ports lacking any interior detail and are locked out of certain modes/features, along with almost 1/2 of ported over and slightly touched up tracks, it becomes even more apparent.
Consistency, GT5 has none.
- 1,732
- cuco33
100% agreed. Thing is some of us like the photomodes in these games. I only got into picture taking in games with Forza 2 when friends and I did our own leagues and went blogging about the results of those races afterwards. I barely touched it in GT4 or other games. But from FM2 and on I've been snapping pictures like it's my job
For that, I want the best polish and touch ups. I know they aren't usually representative of what's in the game during racing but I'm also a big car nut and motorsports fan so toss those into the mix of me being a big gamer and racing game fan and voila. With FM4 I'm already up to 100 pics
The "minimum" requirement to contribute to a fair VS discussion, whether here or on GTPlanet, should be "owning" both AND with similar controls - wheel or pad on both, similar display and sound. Otherwise most opinions are based on hearsay or an agenda. I don't see many tototally uneducated contributions here on ForzaPlanet, other than "xxxx" (won't mention his name), but go over to GTPlanet and it is amazing the number of comments like "...Forza sucks", etc.. Sorry, Forza does not suck, neither does GT. Saying so just reveals the posters inmature and/or uneducated position on the subject.
Actually, there are three things that should never be discussed; Religion, Politics, and Forza vs Gran Turismo
Actually, there are three things that should never be discussed; Religion, Politics, and Forza vs Gran Turismo
- 1,409
- PA
- JEFF636
- OLDSKOOLACURA
The "minimum" requirement to contribute to a fair VS discussion, whether here or on GTPlanet, should be "owning" both AND with similar controls - wheel or pad on both, similar display and sound. Otherwise most opinions are based on hearsay or an agenda. I don't see many tototally uneducated contributions here on ForzaPlanet, other than "xxxx" (won't mention his name), but go over to GTPlanet and it is amazing the number of comments like "...Forza sucks", etc.. Sorry, Forza does not suck, neither does GT. Saying so just reveals the posters inmature and/or uneducated position on the subject.
Actually, there are three things that should never be discussed; Religion, Politics, and Forza vs Gran Turismo
lol, I agree ^
they are the same and completely different at the same time.
People are just getting worked up over a game, yes I enjoy discussion (that's why I check this thread out ), but unless you show proof you are just saying what "YOU" like.
If you do not like forza and you are just here crying that it sucks and not showing proof, then go play GT5.
I think the pros and cons of both games have been covered and now its people just crying (I think everyone knows who I'm talking about).
Now I'm going to go play Forza 4
Both games have their pluses and minuses. My preference of one over the other really depends on my mood. Sometimes, I feel like playing GT5 for the stunning Nordschleife 24 hours experience, other times I feel like driving oodles of supercars in Forza. I agree that to truly appreciate both games, you have to own both.
Also if you have 'played Forza around a mates house', its hardly conductive to having an opinion on said game which spans 25 pages of an online debate is it?
Its hardly fair to take a game as massive as GT5 or Forza 4, play it once, then feel you can comment much more than say a post or 2.
These games take over your life, you live them, until you have sat there and painted a car up, tuned it to your needs, or just done so by buying from the storefronts, you cant really have much of an opinion on what Forza IS, same with GT5.
Until you have at least done that and got inside Forzas soul......... until you have done that and still come away unsatisfied then i'll listen and probably agree with you on some points........but until then with your assertion of having 'played it round a mates house' anything you say is really of little interest.
See i missed the chance to paint up my GT5 cars in racing liveries, i missed not being able to put web addresses on my cars (people have found my website from Forza 3 and 4....) thats why i can state clearly for me Forza is the better game, that and many reasons compared like for like....you cant Maxrelaxing...
I really wished you'd of said you owned both GT5 and FM4. I cant believe you have filled 25 pages of thread with your hatred of a game you played once!!
i give up.
p.s. i own GT5.
oh and as for me being a forza fanboy.....dont even start me on the turn 10 servers for online racing...you'd see im no turn 10 fanboy.... but what they give is pretty great value for money....... splitting cars into Premium and standard for me...wasnt.... there is my deal breaker.....
"oh look the head light on that car is so detailed!!!......who cares that 800 of the cars look like cardboard cut outs, not me i have a picture of a highly detailed head light from one car.....oh how great you are Kaz, thank you so much, no tire pressures?! who cares!"
This just makes me want to cry...... how can anyone say thats acceptable.... seriously, whatever time it took to model the headlight detail that maxrelaxing posted few posts above, you wasted it....you should of spent it on the iconic Golf GTi.....
This is why GT5 sucks...... petrolheads....ok...whatever..
Its hardly fair to take a game as massive as GT5 or Forza 4, play it once, then feel you can comment much more than say a post or 2.
These games take over your life, you live them, until you have sat there and painted a car up, tuned it to your needs, or just done so by buying from the storefronts, you cant really have much of an opinion on what Forza IS, same with GT5.
Until you have at least done that and got inside Forzas soul......... until you have done that and still come away unsatisfied then i'll listen and probably agree with you on some points........but until then with your assertion of having 'played it round a mates house' anything you say is really of little interest.
See i missed the chance to paint up my GT5 cars in racing liveries, i missed not being able to put web addresses on my cars (people have found my website from Forza 3 and 4....) thats why i can state clearly for me Forza is the better game, that and many reasons compared like for like....you cant Maxrelaxing...
I really wished you'd of said you owned both GT5 and FM4. I cant believe you have filled 25 pages of thread with your hatred of a game you played once!!
i give up.
p.s. i own GT5.
oh and as for me being a forza fanboy.....dont even start me on the turn 10 servers for online racing...you'd see im no turn 10 fanboy.... but what they give is pretty great value for money....... splitting cars into Premium and standard for me...wasnt.... there is my deal breaker.....
"oh look the head light on that car is so detailed!!!......who cares that 800 of the cars look like cardboard cut outs, not me i have a picture of a highly detailed head light from one car.....oh how great you are Kaz, thank you so much, no tire pressures?! who cares!"
This just makes me want to cry...... how can anyone say thats acceptable.... seriously, whatever time it took to model the headlight detail that maxrelaxing posted few posts above, you wasted it....you should of spent it on the iconic Golf GTi.....
This is why GT5 sucks...... petrolheads....ok...whatever..
- 929
- United States
I don't understand the GT5 crowd and their instance that graphics matter, yet at the sametime they completely dismiss the fact that 80% of the cars in GT5 (that's 800+ cars) look terrible.
You can't criticize Forza's graphical short comings without first taking a long hard look at GT5 itself, which i've yet to see any of the fans in that camp, do and be honest about it.
You can't criticize Forza's graphical short comings without first taking a long hard look at GT5 itself, which i've yet to see any of the fans in that camp, do and be honest about it.
- 641
- Hong Kong
Depends on what you prefer, the finer, nitpicky details or the bigger picture.
It wont let me get it any bigger........ but this is the bigger picture my friend...
This is a disgrace to this gens gaming and PD's customers.....
80% of a game as last gen.....isnt 'nitpicking'..... no amount of pictures of headlights from prem cars will change that..
i wont even mention the ugly elephant man holding the camer......... no....box...
- 641
- Hong Kong
Nitpicking as in the premium cars being the minority.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Just want to understand what you mean. Are you saying that it is nitpicking to point out that 80% of the cars in GT5 are standards?
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
If you look very closely, it looks like a golf.
UK advert, in joke there.
UK advert, in joke there.
- 641
- Hong Kong
- 24,664
- Anoka, MN
I was bored so I decided to crunch some numbers when it came to tracks as I've heard people say Forza 4 is extremely biased towards US tracks, so I decided to see how true it was.
First is Forza 4, Benchmark has been left out as it's not on the disc.
Fantasy/Real:
Fantasy: 9/25 (36%)
Real: 16/25 (64%)
Forza 4 by country:
France: 1/16 (6.25%)
Germany: 2/16 (12.5%)
Italy: 1/16 (6.25%)
Japan: 3/16 (18.75%)
Spain 1/16 (6.25%)
UK: 2/16 (12.5%)
USA: 6/16 (37.5%)
Forza 4 by continent:
Asia: 3/16 (18.75%)
Europe: 7/16 (43.75%)
North America: 6/16 (37.25%)
Now for the other party, GT5, I left out Spa as it's not on the retail disc. Cote d' Azur is also the only street course counted as real because it's the only one used as a track in real life, the others are just based on real roads.
Fantasy/Real:
Fantasy: 15/26 (57.69%)
Real: 11/26 (42.3%)
GT5 by country:
France: 1/11 (9.09%)
Germany: 1/11 (9.09%)
Italy: 1/11 (9.09%)
Japan: 3/11 (27.27%)
Monaco: 1/11 (9.09%)
UK: 1/11 (9.09%)
USA: 3/11 (27.27%)
GT5 by continent:
Asia: 3/11 (27.27%)
Europe: 5/11 (45.45%)
North America: 3/11 (27.27%)
I didn't bother with country breakdowns of fictional tracks from either game as they are just that, fictional, they could say they are on the moon if they wanted to.
The point of this is to show both games have their biases, they are just in different areas and that may be a positive to one and a negative to the other, of course I win because I have both.
First is Forza 4, Benchmark has been left out as it's not on the disc.
Fantasy/Real:
Fantasy: 9/25 (36%)
Real: 16/25 (64%)
Forza 4 by country:
France: 1/16 (6.25%)
Germany: 2/16 (12.5%)
Italy: 1/16 (6.25%)
Japan: 3/16 (18.75%)
Spain 1/16 (6.25%)
UK: 2/16 (12.5%)
USA: 6/16 (37.5%)
Forza 4 by continent:
Asia: 3/16 (18.75%)
Europe: 7/16 (43.75%)
North America: 6/16 (37.25%)
Now for the other party, GT5, I left out Spa as it's not on the retail disc. Cote d' Azur is also the only street course counted as real because it's the only one used as a track in real life, the others are just based on real roads.
Fantasy/Real:
Fantasy: 15/26 (57.69%)
Real: 11/26 (42.3%)
GT5 by country:
France: 1/11 (9.09%)
Germany: 1/11 (9.09%)
Italy: 1/11 (9.09%)
Japan: 3/11 (27.27%)
Monaco: 1/11 (9.09%)
UK: 1/11 (9.09%)
USA: 3/11 (27.27%)
GT5 by continent:
Asia: 3/11 (27.27%)
Europe: 5/11 (45.45%)
North America: 3/11 (27.27%)
I didn't bother with country breakdowns of fictional tracks from either game as they are just that, fictional, they could say they are on the moon if they wanted to.
The point of this is to show both games have their biases, they are just in different areas and that may be a positive to one and a negative to the other, of course I win because I have both.
- 674
- M.I.A
- 929
- United States
Does the American version have square headlights? All that matters is that the car accurately represent the version it's trying to. I think people are asking to much for 100% accuracy here. Turn-10 tries their hardest, and it's really unfair to expect either them or Polyphony Digital to get 100% accuracy here. They do the best they can with the cars they are able to get ahold of to scan.
Sometimes the cars that are loaned out to them are not exact, they might be special editions or have had modifications done by their owners. I know at least turn-10 tries their hardest to get the most common version of each car, that they put into Forza. But manufacturers do have options and different variations of each car they make.
- 1,732
- cuco33
Mk1 vw cars had 4 different grill/lights, all depending where the car was made for, type of mk1 VW and what options (as well as owner mods of course). Single and dual rounds were a euro thing while us got the single square for the most part. The caddy and jetta also had dual square (quad) fronts as well. This being the hot hatch, there are 2 major tail light differences. One is the small tail lights while other is longer versions. Bumpers and trim are a bit different too and to the untrained eye you wont notice the differences (due to crash testing mostly) light wise im sure it was a us market choice since not many round lights were on small cars in late 70s early 80s. Oh and us spec vw cars come out roughly a year minimum than europe. The mk6 platform, as an example, was put out to the euro market over a year before coming to the states. The first mk6 vw I saw was brought over by VW at a car show where VW goes to annually. In the real modding scene it is funny because many Americans go for the euro look while many europeans go for the us domestic look. I would LOVE an option for (OEM) upgrades like being able to swap out headlights or grills or bumpers. I LOVE the single round fronts a lot more over the square fronts, and as for tails I'm mixed between the shallow tails and long tails. The US spec is usually the single square fronts btw.
My Audi has the euro spec S-line bumpers and was a US option, are shorter and stubbier than US domestic versions. In Canada, the same exact car would have seen the euro spec S-line front bumper but normal US/NA spec rear bumper due solely to crash testing (in Canada, Audi never rear end crashed the euro rear, only the front).
This is true for other generations as well. The mk2 VWs saw single rounds, dual rounds, rectangle headlights and the most iconic (and most expensive = $1000+ just for grill/lights/rad support!! IF YOU FIND ONE!!) rallye front. Bumpers can in small us, small euro, and then the big bumpers, as well as trim pieces (fender flares). MK3 VWs saw a split between the Jettas and the Golf/Cabrio versions, and within this split the headlights, same shapes and all, were single chambered or dual chambered. Some models I believe had a slight smoke effect but that could be aftermarket. Oh and HELLA also made mk4 look headlights which many dealers sold. Cabrios are funny because there was the mk3 cabrio, the mk3.5 cabrio (mk3 chassis w/mk4 style bumpers/grill/lights) and then the mk4 cabrio.
In GT5, I want to build something like this:
The iconic and original hot hatch, on the most iconic wheels, the BBS RS. Sadly, I don't think the BBS RS wheel is an option for any standard. It is not an option for the mk1 Rabbit GTI which is a standard. It is however an option for a Ford Mustang, amongst many cars that never saw this wheel, ever...
Ya, I know a lot about VWs lol
Sorry you misunderstand me, i just showing how the forza 4 version of the iconic Golf is done with the care and respect it deserves, unlike GT5's version..... the square headlights i can live with is that IS the Golf USA style.
Mk1 vw cars had 4 different grill/lights, all depending where the car was made for, type of mk1 VW and what options (as well as owner mods of course). Single and dual rounds were a euro thing while us got the single square for the most part. The caddy and jetta also had dual square (quad) fronts as well. This being the hot hatch, there are 2 major tail light differences. One is the small tail lights while other is longer versions. Bumpers and trim are a bit different too and to the untrained eye you wont notice the differences (due to crash testing mostly) light wise im sure it was a us market choice since not many round lights were on small cars in late 70s early 80s. Oh and us spec vw cars come out roughly a year minimum than europe. The mk6 platform, as an example, was put out to the euro market over a year before coming to the states. The first mk6 vw I saw was brought over by VW at a car show where VW goes to annually. In the real modding scene it is funny because many Americans go for the euro look while many europeans go for the us domestic look. I would LOVE an option for (OEM) upgrades like being able to swap out headlights or grills or bumpers. I LOVE the single round fronts a lot more over the square fronts, and as for tails I'm mixed between the shallow tails and long tails. The US spec is usually the single square fronts btw.
My Audi has the euro spec S-line bumpers and was a US option, are shorter and stubbier than US domestic versions. In Canada, the same exact car would have seen the euro spec S-line front bumper but normal US/NA spec rear bumper due solely to crash testing (in Canada, Audi never rear end crashed the euro rear, only the front).
In GT5, I want to build something like this:
The iconic and original hot hatch, on the most iconic wheels, the BBS RS. Sadly, I don't think the BBS RS wheel is an option for any standard. It is not an option for the mk1 Rabbit GTI which is a standard. It is however an option for a Ford Mustang, amongst many cars that never saw this wheel, ever...
That picture has nearly made my winkey cry tears of joy....
- 1,732
- cuco33
That picture has nearly made my winkey cry tears of joy....
Same here! I love the mk1. At every show I go to I always walk around the mk1 section, and online at least once a week I browse certain forums for a 'built' one. Thought about building one myself from scratch but there's a lot of rust issues as they are very old cars. One of my buds is building one and he's already quite a few grand (think 5k+) in just on body and paint, and he's still not done! The BBS RS wheel is such a gorgeous wheel (and quite played out in the VW scene to be honest) and I don't know if I'd want this wheel. There is just so much detail you will be there cleaning the wheels for hours to look as good as this photo shows. I know folks who put their BBS RS wheels on their VWs solely on photo shoot or car show days, only to swap back another wheel for normal driving (if their cars even see the roads lol)
BTW here's my mk1 in gt5 w/BBS wheels on it:
and while I'm browsing my photobucket, a RWB style RUF:
clearly you can see the poor model stuff, but then on other occasions like darker scenes or rain or with smoke, the uglies goes away and look quite good:
- 674
- M.I.A
Agreed. Personally, I'd rather have a racing game with Wii-quality graphics that has a ton of great content, day/night and weather on every track, immersive special effects, superb physics & sound, etc. Instead we get games that drop planned features (GT5), need install discs and HDD space for basic content (Forza), and spend a significant portion of your gaming time on loading screens.
Art direction is what makes a game look good, not how many pixels it pumps out. I'm all for advancement in graphics, but we've been slowly ceding gameplay to HD textures and polygon counts. The "pixel counters" that whine on the internet about aliasing or upscaling are only making the problem worse.
It was a federal requirement for several decades. There was also the "5mph bumper" regulation that added the big bumpers you see on USDM European cars from the 1970s into the mid 1980s. The intention was to reduce repair costs in minor collisions and allow essential components like headlights to remain intact. Here's an interesting anecdote from that second article:
My '85 BMW has been in a number of bumps and has only a crooked rear bumper to show for it (a gift from an anonymous stranger when I was parked on the street). My '97 Subaru was in a few incidents before I bought it and was not so lucky.
- 1,471
- hennessey_86 and GTP_evox
- hennessey861
Do the cars have this much detail
There is a lot of detail in Forza's cars and they are all equally detailed.
- 5,768
- Anoka, MN
Actually those refer to the newer lenses that have the removable bulbs. The rectangular sealed beam bulbs on the other hand were I believe more of a styling deal. Seems like in the 80's the headlights on all American vehicles went to the rectangular sealed beams, heck that's why the YJ Wrangler had the rectangular headlights rather than the iconic round headlights.
Edit: Reread the post in Wiki and it basically says that the NHTSA required sealed beam headlights, either round or rectangular in shape, probably because they had definitive data on the light patterns. Ford and other companies eventually lobbied to allow cars to have the newer composite headlights with separate bulbs. As I said though, round versus rectangular was basically just styling.
