Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Wolfe]

I can't do Forza photos on the internet here, but someone could get a similar photo of the Ferrari logo on the underside of the 288 GTO, which I noticed before (real photo below):

Reread the post in Wiki and it basically says that the NHTSA required sealed beam headlights, either round or rectangular in shape, probably because they had definitive data on the light patterns. Ford and other companies eventually lobbied to allow cars to have the newer composite headlights with separate bulbs. As I said though, round versus rectangular was basically just styling.

Round, square, and rectangular were the all the options I think, but if a round one didn't fit or look right I can see why VW would go with the square lights.

Foreign manufacturers didn't necessarily rush to bring in models with their original headlights, either, probably for cost reasons. So you'll see models after 1983 that still have the old headlights. However if you look at the Mark VII it most definitely does not have any of the standardized shapes. It's the right legislation I was thinking of.

 

[buickgnx88]

Round, square, and rectangular were the all the options I think, but if a round one didn't fit or look right I can see why VW would go with the square lights.

Foreign manufacturers didn't necessarily rush to bring in models with their original headlights, either, probably for cost reasons. So you'll see models after 1983 that still have the old headlights. However if you look at the Mark VII it most definitely does not have any of the standardized shapes. It's the right legislation I was thinking of.

Those are the composite headlamps I'm talking about, where there's a fixed polycarbonate lense with replaceable bulbs. The reason for keeping the sealed beam lights (bulb and lense are together) is cheapness, though eventually the price probably was lowered enough where it became cheaper to use the composite lights.

 

[newbielives]

I am so glad GT5 has standard cars, because there are so many cars like my 2002 Impreza STI Wagon that is in GT5 but not in Forza 4 because really why would you spend that much time modelling a freaking 2002 Impreza, but it was awesome that PD atleast took the time to import it into GT5 from past GT games.

What PD did with GT5's car split was never done, on any platform, in any genre, of any generation to date. I'm glad T10 didn't go on splitting up content into 'premiums' and 'standards'. It's also obvious to me why GT5 has only been shown off in premium car/track form only.
I also highly doubt you've played FM4. Sorry, but a demo at a GameStop/Best Buy kiosk does not count. It wasn't a genuine question, but rather a trolling/flame baiting one. Most people take your posts as that because you aren't really level headed here and nothing more than a brand loyalist.
Rabid forza fans? Define irony...

And to answer your last question, yes the 20% of GT5's premiums are of greater level of detail when compared to all 100% of Forza 4's cars. Under certain conditions, I still think GT5 is the best looking racer to date. Even when not racing and in photo travel mode with the right camera settings it looks stunning, photo-realistic even, something that's very hard (for me at least) to get to that level in FM4. Sadly this isn't the norm in GT5. When 80% of your cars are lower quality ports lacking any interior detail and are locked out of certain modes/features, along with almost 1/2 of ported over and slightly touched up tracks, it becomes even more apparent.

Consistency, GT5 has none.

 

[imported_JJ72]

yeah, took them 10mins to do so, god be rejoiced!

 

[Luminis]

Always felt like a slap in the face when a car I liked was only available as a standard. always felt I was being told that the car I like isn't worth it. I somewhat expected a "U MAD BRO?" face to pop up somewhere around the UCD.

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

Anyone feel like gt and forza are totally missing out on the racing experience. I recently got shift 2 limited edition for 17 bucks and it is such a different animal. I seriously believe that the helmet cam is the future for the racing genre as it is one of the best feature I have ever used. Also gt and forza need to add damage at the level of grid or at least shift 2 which has wheels fly off and windows cracked to hell.

It was also cool to have works conversions available and nos(loved it in gt4) for low class cars. Why do they not bother with having dirt fly on the windshield or even in forzas case leaving the windshield out all together. The sounds are annoying as the whine makes it hard to hear the cars actual note and every car sounds like a supercar, but the reason I always come back to this game is the track list.

Spa, Bathurst, Monza, The ring, old Hockenheim, Duabai, road america, and fantasy tracks that feel real all in one game is absolutely amazing. Thanks to EA's poor handling of the marketing the game will probably never see a sequal so I look for Turn 10 or PD to try and take the racing experience to the next level on consoles.

Edit: Also the hand animations are top notch which make sit very hard to stomach forza's driver animations.

 

[omgitsbees]

Yeah, the Shift series is done with. Slightly Mad Studio's broke away from EA and is doing a whole new racing sim now (C.A.R.S.).

 

[BarronGeddon]

[DELETED]

 

[Terronium-12]

I've had quite the good day today, er, yesterday so I'll let that thinly-veiled personal dig slide.

Do not do that again.

 

[imported_JJ72]

Shift 2 was almost perfect but the tire physics is just beyond fixing, even the mods found on nogrip does not feel as natural and drivable as forza. The car list and performance different between cars can be much better too, but I do miss a lot of Shift2's strengths.

 

[X-Ray-Cat]

I can't do Forza photos on the internet here, but someone could get a similar photo of the Ferrari logo on the underside of the 288 GTO, which I noticed before (real photo below):

Im no photographer, im lucky to get the subject in the shot letalone know how to get the most out of it, but here you go good sir.

 

[omgitsbees]

God, really!? You have an issue with GT5's standards!?

And what's that you say? Forza has things right?

That's news to us all! It's not like you haven't been trash talking GT5 in this thread for the last month or anything. Seriously, how long will your personal crusade continue?

It's like a broken record. Over and over again..

It's almost as if a Forza website is going to have people who like Forza more. 💡

 

[artboy76]

God, really!? You have an issue with GT5's standards!?

And what's that you say? Forza has things right?

That's news to us all! It's not like you haven't been trash talking GT5 in this thread for the last month or anything. Seriously, how long will your personal crusade continue?

It's like a broken record. Over and over again..

Unfair. 👎

maybe read some of maxrelaxings bile which is based on one play of FM4 round a mates house...... at least Luminis OWNS GT5... sheesh...

 

[artboy76]

[/IMG]

 

[GT6mebe]

It's almost as if a Forza website is going to have people who like Forza more. 💡

I dont think he is just referring to your comments on this site but also on another *cough*gtplanet*cough* site. 💡

But lets forget that people have their preferences its natural.

I am glad PD put standards too....there are so many amazing standard cars, group B rally cars, a ton of lmps, group c cars, GT cars, RUF YELLOWBIRD AND RUF BTR (my favourite cars), old vintage cars and how can we forget normal everyday cars. You have not enjoyed GT to its fullest without trying the standard cars.

Those are some pretty bland textures in the Forza one.

maybe read some of maxrelaxings bile which is based on one play of FM4 round a mates house

One play = 3-4 hours of SP and MP and I played it at London MCM expo on the fanatec wheel for a good hour. Why would you expect me to buy a game that I think is inferior to a game I already have. I am not going to waste my money for no apparent reason at all. The points in this thread on why Fm4 is better are livery editor, storefront, and GT5 having no consistency.

 

[artboy76]

I dont think he is just referring to your comments on this site but also on another *cough*gtplanet*cough* site. 💡

But lets forget that people have their preferences its natural.

I am glad PD put standards too....there are so many amazing standard cars, group B rally cars, a ton of lmps, group c cars, GT cars, RUF YELLOWBIRD AND RUF BTR (my favourite cars), old vintage cars and how can we forget normal everyday cars. You have not enjoyed GT to its fullest without trying the standard cars.

Those are some pretty bland textures in the Forza one.



One play = 3-4 hours of SP and MP and I played it at London MCM expo on the fanatec wheel for a good hour. Why would you expect me to buy a game that I think is inferior to a game I already have. I am not going to waste my money for no apparent reason at all. The points in this thread on why Fm4 is better are livery editor, storefront, and GT5 having no consistency.

But yet you'll happily waste your time trying to convince people that standard cars are a GOOD thing!!

Every car in forza......from the Ford pinto.......to the McLaren F1.....is given the same care and love......

there is nothing good about making a Golf MK1 look like this in 2011-2012.

NOTHING!!

 

[omgitsbees]

Those are some pretty bland textures in the Forza one.

You can't say this and then defend Gran Turismo 5. So you posted some interior shots that look impressive with all of the Anti-aliasing, and special graphical tweaks in the photo mode. So what? You don't see any of this during normal gameplay. You have to go way out of your way to spot these touches in the interior views. Completely wasted effort on PD's part to bother with this stuff.

As for the points so far against Gran Turismo 5, you haven't been paying close enough attention to this thread:

- Very short career mode that doesn't even begin to touch on all of the cars possible and racing combinations available. Everything feels more like a sample of what can be done in the game, and even then it's poorly implemented.
- Long load times
- Terrible menu that is slow and difficult to navigate with load time in between each menu change
- Questionable car selection; to many Japanese cars, to many of the same type of cars (way to many Miata's, GTRs, etc.). Standard cars are not acceptable in a triple-A exclusive console title.
- A lot of the tracks are not much better, the older ones are just ported over from Gran Turismo 4.
- Performance issues, inconsistent graphics that include jaggy shadows and awful looking smoke effects. Frame rate drops and screen tearing are a major problem and very noticeable.
- Really awful sound effects and sound design. None of the cars sound close to realistic. A developer that prides itself on realism, should know better.
- A lack of upgrades, and customization for your cars.
- No real community options, creating paint jobs for your cars, and sharing tuning setups is a huge plus for Forza.
- Poor netcode; cars disappear, mics don't work, lobbies crash pretty often. Even over a year later, a lot of the multiplayer issues are not fixed.
- Taking over a year just to implement very basic features. It's great PD is supporting the game, but they straight up lied about how ready the title was to ship. They were very misleading and shipped a beta test, you can't let that slide either way you cut it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You can't say this and then defend Gran Turismo 5.

Sure he can - but it shows an incredible amount of bias and a pretty sturdy set of blinkers.

But lets forget that people have their preferences its natural.

Preferences, sure. Completely overlooking other games features for the sake of argument, and refusing to assess both games equally? Still looks like flame-baiting.

I am glad PD put standards too....there are so many amazing standard cars, group B rally cars, a ton of lmps, group c cars, GT cars, RUF YELLOWBIRD AND RUF BTR (my favourite cars), old vintage cars and how can we forget normal everyday cars. You have not enjoyed GT to its fullest without trying the standard cars.

So I haven't enjoyed GT5 to the fullest unless I've used cars that are intentionally behind the curve both modelling-wise and likely physics-wise too? The cars that are also missing out on features available to Premiums - well, now they can finally get aftermarket wheels, and that only took 13 months.

GT5's Standard garage does include some absolutely fantastic metal, and that's part of the frustration - I can't enjoy them to any serious degree, like I can in FM4 (or with the Premiums in GT5). Not allowed to do much to them visually past 3 default wings, not allowed to get near them in Photomode, or take them to the Travel locations, can't enjoy all the weather/lighting effects.

Those are some pretty bland textures in the Forza one.

...in the interiors? As opposed to 800 cars having slabs of black cardboard put on screen instead of real interior views... and you can't even see the car's exterior from this new view?

One play = 3-4 hours of SP and MP and I played it at London MCM expo on the fanatec wheel for a good hour. Why would you expect me to buy a game that I think is inferior to a game I already have. I am not going to waste my money for no apparent reason at all. The points in this thread on why Fm4 is better are livery editor, storefront, and GT5 having no consistency.

If someone told you they played GT5 for that amount of time, and made claims that it was an awful game, would you put any weight in their comments?

You're also conveniently ignoring the better physics.

You still haven't answered this post, now why is that?

 

[Northstar]

Every car in forza......from the Ford pinto.......to the McLaren F1.....is given the same care and love......

That isn't entirely true, the interior on the Eagle Talon is horrendous(the windshield wipers are white for some reason and door panels are very 2D), the gap is considerably smaller than GT5 though.

 

[omgitsbees]

Let me post some positives about Gran Turismo 5, and see if this drives home my point even more;

- Dynamic day/night cycles, random weather
- Certain parts of the game do look impressive
- The driving model feels really good
- A very good and varied track selection

And that's about all I got. This isn't enough, this is a failing grade for a triple AAA PlayStation 3 exclusive. This isn't Sony and Polyphony Digital delivering their best. I expect better because I know they are capable of bringing out some of the best video games, and they really dropped the ball on what they called a flagship PlayStation title. I cannot believe this met Sony's quality standards. I can imagine at the board room meetings discussing this game, there was a lot of nervous talk about whether or not it would even make a profit. Kaz is lucky it sold as well as it did, because if GT5 bombed, Polyphony Digital would not exist right now, and I doubt Kaz would be able to find a job in the game industry ever again.

 

[RedSuinit]

Whew. Lots of interesting banter going on here. As someone who has and plays (regularly) both games, I find them to be quite equal in enjoyment.

Forza:
Pros:
Consistency: There is no difference in the quality of any of the vehicles.
Audio: Car sounds SOUND better, even though a lot of the lower end cars are too loud, and their aggressiveness is highly exaggerated, it's just more pleasing to the ears.
Online: Lets face it T10 has been at it online for a while and PD is just now trying their hand at it.
Customization: No real need for explanation here is there?

Cons:
Graphics: Depends on who you are. I don't like the fact that even now, after 4 iterations, the cars still have a high gloss plastic look to them. I can't explain it any other way, if you don't agree, then you don't agree.
Physics: I know I will get some beef for this, but I just find Forza to have less resemblance to what I have experienced in real life than GT.
AI: Neither GT nor Forza does this very well. It's either fast AI or cleaner AI. They both still have not figured out how to get fast AND clean AI.
Autovista: Sorry to most of you, but I consider this a con, much like GT's automotive history stuff. I can't race the car with that level of detail, so in my mind that is pretty wasted effort. I'm also not a very big shutterbug.
Race Elements: Lack of weather, and night racing, and limited number of cars on course.

GT5:
Pros:
Graphics: They're better than Forza 4. They just are. I know, I know, "but what about **** standard cars?! Or the tracks that are just ported from GT4, and earlier?!" I'll get to that later. Tick for tick though, GT5's premium cars just look better than Forza 4's anything IMO,and GT5's tracks are better too, and tend to be more accurate, at least I think so.
Physics: I find both games to be arcade-ish in areas, but I find GT5 to be closer to my own experiences when it comes to driving physics, and what actually happens out on the course.
Racing Elements: Weather, night racing, and less limited number of cars on the course.

Cons:
Consistency: I wish that all of the cars had been up to the premium car level. I still like the fact that I have the standard cars to drive (because in the end, that is what the game is about, driving) but I do not like the lack of consistency at all. Especially in regards to the tracks....
Audio: Even though I think it is better than most other people tend to think it is, I still find it extremely lacking in the areas of the higher end cars. The pitch sounds to high, and their filtering system is to clean. If they added a distortion effect to most of their sounds, it would greatly improve the overall sound quality. When the human ear hears loud noises, most of it gets distorted due to the packing of air in the ear canal. Sound waves are physical waves that create differences in pressure. The louder the noise the stronger the wave, the more the air is pushed. GT lacks any form of distortion in their audio, which makes the cars sound tame and quiet.
Online: I love it, but it's not implemented well, and WHERE THE HECK ARE THE LEADERBOARDS?!
Customization: Again, no comparison here.
Photo travel: I also consider this a con. That level of detail on the interiors of the cars has no effect on the racing aspect of things. So I see it as wasted effort. However, most of the detail on the exterior of the cars is still there during the race, that is why I think GT5 beats Forza graphically.

This is all my opinion, take it as you see fit. However, both games are VERY fun, and I have wasted the same amount of time on each. Especially playing split screen mode. I just wish one of them would implement AI on splitscreen mode. If one of them did that, the other would end up collecting a lot of dust.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Very balanced, RedSuinit 👍

I could be wrong, but doesn't FM4 have AI in split-screen? I'm positive it does, but it might only be two computer opponents...

One interesting way to look at AutoVista, at least how I have, is sort of the opposite of Standards in GT5 - AutoVista is obviously too highly-detailed for racing this generation, but I'd be very, very surprised if those models aren't what the next-gen system uses for the actual gameplay.

I'll also agree that at it's best, GT5 does look better. Taking the GT86 to the 'Ring at sunset and watching the replay makes for a very convincing video, but on the other hand, taking the Hommell to Trial Mountain looks a little too much like GT4. For all the talk of FM4's improved lighting (and it really is very much so compared to FM3), I feel like the saturation is still too high to pull off absolute realism in some instances. The sunsets, for example, look more like paintings, which while certainly attractive, is a different direction.

Right now I'm looking at the Alfa Romeo Montreal on a pre-race screen at Mugello, though, and I feel comfortable saying that, modelling-wise, there is very little between T10 and PD. The newest car models from both houses are of incredibly high quality 👍

 

[Vaxxtx]

I agree Autovista is a total waste. I checked out a few cars and never went back to unlock more. Nothing there does it for me since I have access to the internet. I could not care less for that mode.

Then again, I dont care about photomodes either. I like the part of the game where you actually get to tune, paint, and race. Since those are solid, I am good.

If you could merge Race07/WTCC2010/STCC/GTR Evo, rules, flags, and race setups with FM4, there would be nothing that could compare. IMO of course.

 

[artboy76]

balanced, but i still dont agree that given GT5 has 800 standard car how can "tick for tick" GT5 be better than forza in graphics department??

Why do so many GT5 players not care!!!

What worries me is come GT6 will we still have this spilt?

If Kaz listens to his army of boot lickers then yes we will...... very very sad....

Seroiusly me personally want the next GT and Forza game to have close to Shifts in car views please..... tick for tick shift 2 destroys both games for incar emmersion

I feel that Kaz could poo in a box and the GT faithful would buy it and say its awesome.

 

[RedSuinit]

balanced, but i still dont agree that given GT5 has 800 standard car how can "tick for tick" GT5 be better than forza in graphics department??

Why do so many GT5 players not care!!!

What worries me is come GT6 will we still have this spilt?

If Kaz listens to his army of boot lickers then yes we will...... very very sad....

Seroiusly me personally want the next GT and Forza game to have close to Shifts in car views please..... tick for tick shift 2 destroys both games for incar emmersion

I feel that Kaz could poo in a box and the GT faithful would buy it and say its awesome.

Woah. Glad to see you read the whole post. I am NOT happy that there are standard cars. I wish that ALL of them had been premium, but they aren't and they are still fun to drive. At the end of the day, it's still about DRIVING. I hope that there is no split in GT6. Glad to see that the conversation is still docile.

 

[omgitsbees]

If there is a Gran Turismo 6, in order to get me to even consider buying it, the game would have to have the following:

- All premium cars, with a well rounded and varied list
- All tracks need to look next gen
- Better car customization, and upgrade options
- A much more well rounded and larger career mode
- Realistic sound effects
- More community features and sharing; tuning setups, paint jobs, and replay uploads to youtube.
- Multiplayer that actually works
- More accessible, none of this used car dealership business, let me use any car I want in Arcade mode, and buy any car I want from the start, so long as I have the credits to afford it.
- No more pointless features like changing the oil, getting your car cleaned or needing an engine repair.

And last, but not least: Zombie Jeff Gordon needs to go:

 

[Terronium-12]

One, you might as well let go of the "Realistic sound effects" optimism right now. It's been 5 full-length games and they're still off the beaten path with only a handful sounding close to accurate.

Two, I don't see how changing oil or engine repair is useless. It can argued that washing the car has it's merits as well, as dirt and grime will almost certainly affect aerodynamics to some degree, negligible, but to some degree nonetheless.

 

[omgitsbees]

I suppose its personal preference, in my opinion I still found the whole thing annoying. I just don't feel like it's needed. It's another time waster in a game that already wastes your time enough as is.

PD doesn't have to do this stuff, but if they don't want to lose long time Gran Turismo fans (i'm one of them) then they should really try harder next time. Their competition has surpassed them. Developing in a bubble where they pretend no other racing sims exist, is just not going to cut it anymore.

And i'm not saying I think the realistic sound effects are going to happen, i'm just saying that is one of my demands. Either they do this, or there is at least one long time GT fan that is done with their games for good.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Changing oil is a neat feature, but its implementation could be improved - I shouldn't have to change the oil as soon as I've bought the car just for it to hit its proper power levels. Oil changes and engine rebuilds are interesting, but I will admit I don't miss the constant upkeep when I'm playing FM4 - I know that my car will always be in good condition, and doesn't need oil changed every 150 miles. How's that realistic?

As for online play - strange, the few times I've gone online with FM4 I've witnessed atrocious lag. I played GT5 online almost daily a few months ago and very rarely experienced any, and only had a handful of disconnects. Speaking of online though, I do really enjoy the fact I don't have to have races in GT5 - open track days are fun

 

[buickgnx88]

Cons:
Graphics: Depends on who you are. I don't like the fact that even now, after 4 iterations, the cars still have a high gloss plastic look to them.

You know, I've been thinking the same thing, however I couldn't think of how to describe the look exactly. That's the one thing I like about GT5 is the Premiums look more natural, whereas the cars in Forza look like they have about 10 coats of wax that were applied before each race.