Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[omgitsbees]

I currently play Forza 4, iRacing, F1 2011, C.A.R.S. and GT5 myself. Although of all of those, I still like Forza the most, I get pretty excited whenever a new sim comes out. I'm pretty pumped for rFactor 2 even though I really didn't like the first one, but its been years now since rF1 came out.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I currently play Forza 4, iRacing, F1 2011, C.A.R.S. and GT5 myself. Although of all of those, I still like Forza the most, I get pretty excited whenever a new sim comes out. I'm pretty pumped for rFactor 2 even though I really didn't like the first one, but its been years now since rF1 came out.

I am jealous you are playing CARS! I don't have a tower capable of handling it at the current moment; or I would have donated and been playing every alpha lol.

One play = 3-4 hours of SP and MP and I played it at London MCM expo on the fanatec wheel for a good hour. Why would you expect me to buy a game that I think is inferior to a game I already have. I am not going to waste my money for no apparent reason at all. The points in this thread on why Fm4 is better are livery editor, storefront, and GT5 having no consistency.

And I still wonder why we have members joining and commenting in these forums that do not even own Forza and/or an XBOX. The moderators I obviously understand. But honestly, why waste your time and ours? Are you THAT bored? If GT5 was as good as you claim it is.... you wouldn't be spending your time on a Forza forum.

 

[artboy76]

I am jealous you are playing CARS! I don't have a tower capable of handling it at the current moment; or I would have donated and been playing every alpha lol.



And I still wonder why we have members joining and commenting in these forums that do not even own Forza and/or an XBOX. The moderators I obviously understand. But honestly, why waste your time and ours? Are you THAT bored? If GT5 was as good as you claim it is.... you wouldn't be spending your time on a Forza forum.

amen.

For someone like maxrelaxing to get that annoyed by Forza 4 when by his own admission he's not actually gone out and spent money on it just played a mates copy for few hours..... shows to me....that the reason he hates it so much is that its a great game!! this must annoy him cause he knows theres things it does much much better than GT5... clearly hes not annoyed with Forza cause its cost him money and as a consumer he'd have a right to honest gripes and complaints....

See me, i promised i'd wait till GT5 came out, then and only then would i buy a PS3, i was very happy with xbox 360 but knew i wanted GT5 and needed a PS3... so i preordered in all the hype, saw the screen shots, waited patiently, folllowed progress on forums....couldnt wait!!

Then i played it..... and my beloved GTV V6 that was in the game....was a standard...i couldnt even drive it in car...i had to float behind it circa 1990's arcade driving games.....oh dear......oh dear....

That is why i feel i can comment on GT5 cause Sony and PD both got my money and frankly i felt conned and cheated......

Had i of played a mates copy i'd never of shelled out for it and saved myself 300 odd quid!!!

thats why i cant see why you want to slate forza so bad...

 

[omgitsbees]

I am jealous you are playing CARS! I don't have a tower capable of handling it at the current moment; or I would have donated and been playing every alpha lol.

I got in the second the first alpha build was released. It's making some really good progress. I really like Slightly Mad Studio's and what they are trying to do here.

See me, i promised i'd wait till GT5 came out, then and only then would i buy a PS3, i was very happy with xbox 360 but knew i wanted GT5 and needed a PS3... so i preordered in all the hype, saw the screen shots, waited patiently, folllowed progress on forums....couldnt wait!!

I had my PS3 a year before GT5 came out. It wasn't the reason why I wanted a PS3, but it was up there. I was so hyped for that game, paid attention to everything about it, especially after E3 2010. The trailers were amazing! I pre-ordered the second the release date of November 2nd was announced. In retrospect, I should have never pre-ordered. From the second GT5 was shown at E3 2010, there were instant and alarming red flags about the game. People that were way more level headed then me about it, were pointing out some pretty worrying things, like the standard cars and how long the game has been in development. There were a lot of very good points against pre-ordering GT5. I ignored them though, and paid the price for it. :/

Someone I knew on another website, knew a guy who worked at Sony Computer Entertainment of Europe. They had a group there that was squashing bugs for GT5, and setting things up on the European side, for the games launch. This person on the inside, was saying that GT5 was a total mess and absolutely not ready for release. The game up until the very last moment, was very buggy and incomplete and Sony knew this. There was a lot of nervous talk within Sony and Polyphony Digital about GT5s development and release. Neither company was very confident, internally, about its success. If GT5 failed, it would have been very bad.

I wonder what would happen if I typed all of that out on GTPlanet.

 

[hennessey86]

@Maxrelaxing, ok now show me the textures for the road, grass, trees and so on. You won't because they are average at best, I am sure turn 10 could have put that kind of detail in if they had track detail as lacking as GT5

 

[omgitsbees]

You know what was awesome though? All of the graffiti that GT5 got on the Nurburgring. Minus the mature rated stuff.

 

[RedSuinit]

The other thing regards the "GT fan not a racing game fan" thing, is that i love motorsport, i love cars, i am a total utter petrolhead, for what its worth both my brother race in the UK and so did my Dad back in the day so i have grown up and live with motorsport and cars.....

hence why i own Forza / Shift 2 / F1 2011 / Race Pro / GT5 etc.

What i find is that GT fans in general aren't motoring or motorsport fans, rather they own GT5 cause its like having the latest trainers, or phone....its an accessory this is why they are so preoccupied with it being "the best" driving game.....

just an observation...

Really? I do not find this to be the case. That is why most of them aren't all hot and bothered by the premium/standard issue. It's more cars for them to drive and enjoy BECAUSE they are gearheads, and greasemonkeys, and less hung up on the visual/whatever. While there are those that are "fanboys" a lot of them aren't. That is a pretty broad generalization of the GT community, and no offense, but you, yes you, right now are more guilty of what you are accusing the GT community of being than MOST of the GT community actually is.

 

[cuco33]

I'm a huge gearhead and I do love the fact that I have the standards to drive, for the most part at least, because at the end of the day I wouldn't have my Audi S4, RS6, S3 or VW GTI, amongst many other cars in the game without them... but I am NOT happy about the split at all. It has never been done before, in any game, in any genre, on any platform, ever... and most GT fans excuse it as if it's a bonus and great.

It's not just being able to drive these cars. At one point you didn't have cockpits, now you have generic black cockpits as a bandaid. At one point you couldn't even put wheels on them and now we can, albeit limited (why can I put a BBS RS on a Ford Mustang but NOT a mk1 VW RABBIT GTI?!!!!? ). And still to this day standards don't get the extra fluff like working wipers, cool splash effects in rain, and can't even access those gorgeous backdrops for photos in photo travel. Mind you, I used to be heavily against taking pics in games but from FM2 and on, I got hooked on it. It stinks I can't take a Lambo Countach to one of the pretty Italian backdrops but I can take a freakin Toyota Prius or a VW Schwimwaggen there?!

They also sound like crap and are even more limited in mods you can do. And dare I say, me not being a graphics whore, some look atrocious while racing past them. The VW Lupo is a perfect example... A and B spec race events specific to Lupos yet we saw some of the worst ladder style jaggies on the rear hatch pillars

 

[artboy76]

Really? I do not find this to be the case. That is why most of them aren't all hot and bothered by the premium/standard issue. It's more cars for them to drive and enjoy BECAUSE they are gearheads, and greasemonkeys, and less hung up on the visual/whatever. While there are those that are "fanboys" a lot of them aren't. That is a pretty broad generalization of the GT community, and no offense, but you, yes you, right now are more guilty of what you are accusing the GT community of being than MOST of the GT community actually is.

Nope like i say, owning GT5 to them is like owning latest pair of NIKE trainers, they need constant validation they "have the best", so they beat down on anything that appears to be competing , F1 games, rally games...you name it.

Go onto any youtube video of forza game....and see the comments from GT fans.....thats all the proof you need....

Whether they love cars or not, they just want GT5 cause its flag ship game of the great SONY chav console.

 

[imported_eSZee]

Go onto any youtube video of forza game....and see the comments from GT fans.....thats all the proof you need....

How is that proof? The simple fact that the same can be said about GT5 videos and forza fanboyz completely invalidates your argument.
Basing your view of a community based on a small number of individuals, youtubers nonetheless, is just absurdly stupid.

Your post does show your feelings towards the ps3 and it's users and even further nullifies anything you say on this matter.
Tootles, chap.

 

[cuco33]

I forgot one thing... Had GT5 and Forza 4 both been multiplatform titles, GT5 would be bashed like no tomorrow for many of it's issues and questionable decisions. I doubt Forza 4 would get as much flack as it does now, mostly from the Sony/GT crowd. I'm a gamer, so any great game on any genre or platform I'm into I will try out, regardless if on console or PC. I got massively into racing games from GT1 and was at one point a diehard GT loyalist.. and then a buddy introduced me to a PC racing sim with a wheel... and I opened my eyes to what else is out there.
I've told many folks on both sides of the fence that if you're into 1 franchise you will be into the other. If you love GT games you'll love the Forza games. I still play both today, with pad AND wheel!

 

[Luminis]

I don't quite get what being a car guy and gear had has to do with the standard cars. I really don't.

Shift 2, for example, had to make do with, what, 150 cars? And it still felt pretty "gear-heady" because you could actually do something to your cars. Granted, the livery editor was very limited, but generally speaking, the modifications possible were pretty neat. I', still waiting for widebody kits and cockpit upgrades in Forza (or GT, for that matter.

Anyways, I'm still pretty certain that PD would've given us a better car list of premiums if it wasn't for the standard cars to fill in the holes. They could've pulled another GT3, really. A bit short on content, sure, but the quality was great throughout. They could've expanded the amount of content with GT6...

As it is, though, they started with a huge amount of content but dropped the qualitx throughout the game. But I do hope that the guys at PD are going to expand the quality with GT6, instead of just content.

Problem is, I don't know whether they will. I mean, if it was me, I'd look at the feedback I've been getting and I'd probalby thinK: "Yeah, our fans want quantity! Quantity matters most!" Might not be the case, but if it was, I do fear that GT isn't going to return to its former glory. And I do want a game that's as awesome as GT4 was, back in the day. What kinda annoys me is that, right now, I've got the feeling that T10 is going to manage that before PD does.

How is that proof? The simple fact that the same can be said about GT5 videos and forza fanboyz completely invalidates your argument.
Basing your view of a community based on a small number of individuals, youtubers nonetheless, is just absurdly stupid.

I'm not trying to back him up or anything, but my personal experience is that the PS3 community in general seems a bit more, dunno, aggressive. Might just be my personal perception, but there's always been some sort of elitist atmosphere around some of the PS3-only owners I've gotten to know over the years. Maybe because at one point, it was the most expensive console or maybe because the PS has been out for so long and has been such a huge success in the PS1 and PS2 days, who knows. I know that in the PS2 days, I felt the same. Until I experienced Twilight Princess and Windwaker on the GameCube, which made me realise that there's more to gaming than the PlayStation brand.

This isn't specifically the GT5 community, though, not at all. Granted, I'm not claiming this to be a fact, just my personal experience. While the Xbox community sure isn't great from what I've seen, the PS3 guys seem to be, well, worse.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Guys, we don't really need any personal attacks. People are just stating their opinions and observations.

Honestly, I find the GTP community to be fine when it comes to clean debate. There is, however, a large minority of.... "faithful" players that just happen to be the most vocal. You typically see the most mature fans simply staying out of the debate all together.

That being said I don't dare mention Forza in GTP. You are garunteed to go into a flame war after the children get out of school.

Regardless, in my opinion, Forza is the better game. Which is why I haven't touched GT5 in months. Well, except for about five minutes after the latest update came out with "improved racing sounds" lol.

 

[I'm Motarded]

The news section at GTP is pretty bad when it comes to forza talk. This is the first most recent comment I found containing the word forza..

"Forza 4 is the worst game I’ve ever played, it might as well be called bowling or tennis because it certainly aint driving."

lol
Go looking through the older news articles and it gets much worse. Sometimes the Sony community reminds me of that video I'm sure most of you here have seen where the guy is going off in his bedroom spouting all sorts of nonsense about GT5 is way superior vs fm4. I know he's a verrrrrry extreme case, and not every PS3 (only) console owner is like that, but it's just the impression I get sometimes.

PS if anyone has that video link post it up, it's good to watch for a laugh.

Ahhh I found an edited version of him to quench my thirst

The other video on that channel is the money video, hilarious stuff.

 

[cuco33]

Most of my closest buddies who have a PS3 also have GT5 and all of them play with a pad and are more of your casual minded player. They don't blog about games and only get a few 'classics' like GT, Mortal Kombat and FIFA games. All of them have played with my DFGT and struggled quite a bit and all of them who have tried out a Forza title at my place with a pad (none have tried Forza w/wheel yet) were simply stunned at how great the game was especially the sounds. They all stopped playing GT5 some 6+ months ago and have at most 50-70 cars. Their way of tuning is maxing out a car's power, Racing Softs, and go racing, while mostly bumping walls and cars and whatnot. They saw me put a very impressive and fast lap time with a pad in a DTM Audi TT on Nurburgring's Nord and were nowhere near close. When I tell them I'm at 800 cars they drop their jaws.

One time, one of them showed me his Shift1 game and said it's better than GT5 (he likes it more is all). I went for a go the 1st time and had to restart. He had every possible assist on. When he saw me turn them all of he thought I was crazy, and then I destroyed 2 of his lap times. Bragged a lil 'this is how you do it son!!' lol

 

[omgitsbees]

Really? I do not find this to be the case. That is why most of them aren't all hot and bothered by the premium/standard issue. It's more cars for them to drive and enjoy BECAUSE they are gearheads, and greasemonkeys, and less hung up on the visual/whatever. While there are those that are "fanboys" a lot of them aren't. That is a pretty broad generalization of the GT community, and no offense, but you, yes you, right now are more guilty of what you are accusing the GT community of being than MOST of the GT community actually is.

I would believe this if so many users on GTPlanet didn't constantly bring up that the premiums in GT5 are better looking then the cars in Forza 4. Clearly graphics do matter to them. Yet they can't seem to answer why at the sametime they don't care about ugly standard cars.

Honestly, I could careless about the graphics, I truly mean that. The standard cars are the least of GT5s problems.

Regardless, in my opinion, Forza is the better game. Which is why I haven't touched GT5 in months. Well, except for about five minutes after the latest update came out with "improved racing sounds" lol.

I do at least recommend checking out the new Toyota that was added for free. It's a really fun to drive car.

 

[high_end]

If you want the most accurate driving model on console that gives you the closest sensation of real life driving with the bare minimum (or less) of bells and whistles in a video game than GT5 is it.

But if you want the bells and whistles in spades with a pretty close but no cigar feeling of real life driving in a videogame than Forza 4 is it.

Some people would be willing to forego the bells and whistles for the extra care that went into the driving alone...just like the inside of a real race car it is ugly with wires hanging out of the dash and sharp edges all around the roll cage. But one thing the car does while looking ugly inside is that its ready to race. That to me is GT5. As long as the driving part of the driving game is the best on console I would rather go that way than the 98.9% with icing and a cherry on top that is Forza 4.

At the end of the day its still apples and oranges.

 

[t.o.]

The news section at GTP is pretty bad when it comes to forza talk. This is the first most recent comment I found containing the word forza..

"Forza 4 is the worst game I’ve ever played, it might as well be called bowling or tennis because it certainly aint driving."

lol
Go looking through the older news articles and it gets much worse. Sometimes the Sony community reminds me of that video I'm sure most of you here have seen where the guy is going off in his bedroom spouting all sorts of nonsense about GT5 is way superior vs fm4. I know he's a verrrrrry extreme case, and not every PS3 (only) console owner is like that, but it's just the impression I get sometimes.

PS if anyone has that video link post it up, it's good to watch for a laugh.

Ahhh I found an edited version of him to quench my thirst

The other video on that channel is the money video, hilarious stuff.

You ever see my reply video to this idiot?

 

[omgitsbees]

If you want the most accurate driving model on console that gives you the closest sensation of real life driving with the bare minimum (or less) of bells and whistles in a video game than GT5 is it.

I'm going to completely disagree with this until the end of time. I still feel that Forza 4 is more realistic. I remember when GT5 first came out, the website, Jalopnik.com, ran a pretty comprehensive article with real life racing drivers comparing GT5 to Forza 3, and the conclusion was that GT5 was just barely more realistic.

Turn-10 completely rewrote their physics engine and tire model, using the help of Pirelli Tires. There is no way that is not going to be better then what GT5 has. FM4's tire model has its issues, but its by far the best of any racing sim right now.

 

[tribolik]

 

[high_end]

Turn-10 completely rewrote their physics engine and tire model, using the help of Pirelli Tires. There is no way that is not going to be better then what GT5 has. FM4's tire model has its issues, but its by far the best of any racing sim right now.

I know this to be true but I can only go on what I know about videogame driving compared to real life driving. I don't know how to program software just the end result of using it. Maybe since its the first iteration of this new tech and they missed the bill by a bit. PD did the same thing. It happens to all companies who scrap everything and start again from the ground up. There's bound to be foul ups along the way. I'm sure Forza 5 will get it perfect just as GT6 will hopefully fix all of its wrong doings.

 

[high_end]

I saw that video few months back when I was trying to decide whether to get Forza or GT. You can easily tell from that video that Forza is a videogame no question. Its really colorful in places, but too colorful compared to when i look out my bedroom window. Real life is beautiful and colorful but not like that. GT as bland as it may look to some looks really close to how it looks when im staring out through my windshield.

Still besides that I feel the driving in GT is spot on and only gets trumped by the PC sims.

 

[ImaRobot]

I saw that video few months back when I was trying to decide whether to get Forza or GT. You can easily tell from that video that Forza is a videogame no question. Its really colorful in places, but too colorful compared to when i look out my bedroom window. Real life is beautiful and colorful but not like that. GT as bland as it may look to some looks really close to how it looks when im staring out through my windshield.

Still besides that I feel the driving in GT is spot on and only gets trumped by the PC sims.

You must live in a dull colorless area. Only thing that i think are overthetop are some of the special paint colors, but what two tone paint isnt. One thing that i really liked in GT5 though was the photomode. I also miss alot of the lower class and old race cars that they had.

 

[zr1chris]

Tracks are much more accurate in GT5 imo especially objects around the track.

 

[high_end]

You must live in a dull colorless area. Only thing that i think are overthetop are some of the special paint colors, but what two tone paint isnt.

San Francisco bro...yea its grey and rainy here ALOT but even on sunny days it doesn't look quite like Forza...and i agree i think the paint on many of the cars is the biggest dead giveaways for Forza's lack of realism. I have a 2007 Sublime Lime Green Charger Daytona (one of the most colorful cars on the road) and many of Forza's cars make it look bland in comparison

 

[Vaxxtx]

vid

Really? You really think that video is a good comparison? My goodness.

Again, reaching for anything...

 

[ImaRobot]

San Francisco bro...yea its grey and rainy here ALOT but even on sunny days it doesn't look quite like Forza...and i agree i think the paint on many of the cars is the biggest dead giveaways for Forza's lack of realism. I have a 2007 Sublime Lime Green Charger Daytona (one of the most colorful cars on the road) and many of Forza's cars make it look bland in comparison

Ah i see. It might be the vasts amount of colorful rose and flower covered gardens that i live next to haha. My neighbors have really nice yards so thats what i see when i look outside.

 

[Scaff]

If you want the most accurate driving model on console that gives you the closest sensation of real life driving with the bare minimum (or less) of bells and whistles in a video game than GT5 is it.

But if you want the bells and whistles in spades with a pretty close but no cigar feeling of real life driving in a videogame than Forza 4 is it.

I've said this a few time before, but feel I would like to respond to this.

I could not disagree with you more, in terms of both how weight transfer is managed and the tyre physics model FM4 has GT5 beat. The more I play FM4 the clearer (to me) the difference is.

I've logged hundreds of hours on track and proving grounds while working in the motor industry and while neither FM4 or GT5 is perfect, in terms of replicating what happens dynamically to a car, FM4 is far closer.

Its been shown (and the thread is long and detailed over at GTP) that GT5 doesn't even account for the differences that contact patch and suspension makes to lateral G. With the same grade tyre on wildly different cars returning the same lateral G figures.

Tyre scrub may be overdone in FM4, but at least it present. Understeer or oversteer in GT5 and you loose very little speed at all, do the same in FM4 and you will scrub off speed.

All of the above is also far more accurately effected by weight transfer itself and such the combination of the two means you get a realistically progressive build and loss of grip from all four of the tyre. GT5 goes from grip to nothing in a heartbeat, and to be blunt that's not how the vast majority of tyres, particularly road legal tyres, react at all.

The weight transfer is also well illustrated in that FM4 does a reasonable job of recreating lift-off oversteer, something that GT5 fairs poorly at particularly once understeer has set in.


Personally I don't see how GT5 does a better job overall in terms of physics and in particularly 'feel' at all, and would ask if you have yet picked up FM4 as in your first post you had only experienced the demo...

http://www.forzaplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=16599#post16599

...if that's still the case then its not exactly a valid comparison. If you have now got FM4 then some more specific examples of how GT5 has the better physics would be great to discuss.


Scaff

 

[X-Ray-Cat]

I saw that video few months back when I was trying to decide whether to get Forza or GT. You can easily tell from that video that Forza is a videogame no question. Its really colorful in places, but too colorful compared to when i look out my bedroom window. Real life is beautiful and colorful but not like that. GT as bland as it may look to some looks really close to how it looks when im staring out through my windshield.

Still besides that I feel the driving in GT is spot on and only gets trumped by the PC sims.

As somebody that obviously has realistic graphics as such a high priority, Im surprised when deciding what game you want to own based on the visual appearance of a youtube video alone, You decided you could live with 80% of the game being monstrosities like this

or this

I do feel sorry for you that while the video does show off fm4s head tracking a little (you must have missed this one), It really doesnt show of the extremely active, involved and community based playstyle of fm4, the auction house and storefront that will allow you to become an ingame "professional painter" or "professional tuner" making tonnes of credits from selling your tunes, or super creative paints and liverys. The super competative rivals mode that will keep you glued to your wheel for hours trying to beat your friends times and give you updates every time a friend has beaten one of your times.

Driving model is very close between the two, Alot closer than the previous generation of GT and FM series. Its to be said that forzas simulation is alot more comprehensive as gt5 doesnt even model tyre pressures! Driving and physics model aside.

FM4 feels like im playing the living, breathing interactive experience that one would expect in 2011. GT5 on the other hand, when I run to get my pen and paper to write down tunes and lap times, And when I have to run to grab my phone to call my friends and recite the tune that I have written down on my paper setting by setting. I just cant help feel that im in 1995. Certainly not the experience I expect from current generation gaming.

EDIT: I have one more thing to say, On the subject of GT5 having better looking tracks and more realistic track side scenery ect. I present this picture and say no more on the subject.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

If you want the most accurate driving model on console that gives you the closest sensation of real life driving with the bare minimum (or less) of bells and whistles in a video game than GT5 is it...

Ok, your opinion. Sorry cannot agree, IMO Forza has passed GT this go around. And I am comparing apples to apples - Fanatec CSR/Elite pedals on both.

Your not related to @Maxxxxx are you? All of your posts are also ONLY in the FM vs GT thread. You said yourself that you don't own Forza - only played the demo.