Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[hennessey86]

GT Academy flaws?

I'd like to hear more on this, I've been doing it that last couple of days (Yes, I know late to the party), and not enjoying the Motegi TT at all, I seem quite sensitive to the lack of tyre feedback through FFB, and that numbness makes me get bored after a period of time..

But I have noticed some aspects of the handling that don't sit right with me, i.e. following some top ghosts, they go quicker in certain situations and my immediate reaction is something looks not quite right between lateral and tractive grip, but that might be my misunderstanding of how things should be..

For example, the left hander (Turn 3 I think, after the tunnel) they carry an insane amount of speed into the corner ad change direction out of the corner in a way that seems to defy physics, but that could all be my lack of skill (Still struggling around 1:32.7xx)

They are basically taking advantage of GT5's really bad tire model, they are sliding the car round the corners and then quickly gaining traction with a short shift. Short shifting only works in real life on the exit of a corner while these guys are using it on the entrance to a corner. It really highlights GT5's flaws in its physics but its the way GT has handled since 3 and its never really advanced.

 

[shawtyoner]

A number of modern cars have button operated gear changes (as in not even paddles), these act far closer to what you find on a pad that anything on a wheel/pedal set-up. Are they not driving?

Not entirely true. Wheels also have buttons which can be mapped to accommodate this.

This is dragging on because, to be blunt, you seem to not understand that simply because others have a different view when it comes to a sim we are still capable of enjoying the simulation and understanding the physics.

Yea I think we can put this to bed. I feel that both parties (wheel and pad users) have the ability to enjoy and experience physics in their own way. The purest form I feel would be a wheel and thats just my opinion because to me, and Goshin and Hennessey and other wheel users, its the connection of actually driving a car that stands out for us without any buffers or interference.

It is a game however, and console games were born to be played with a pad, so I am at least happy that FM4 does a great job at making this game enjoyable as well if you are using one.

 

[cuco33]

Personally I like playing these games with pad and wheel. Sometimes it's just easier to turn on the system and do a race or two with a pad rather than bring out the whole wheel setup (no dedicated setup right now) and then go into racing. Half the times I play FM4 (or GT5) is to buy and build a car, maybe test it out real quick and have it saved in my garage until I get the wheel out.

I can do both, and I think the better immersion and more fun with more control is with the wheel but I would not discredit a pad player. Pad players just don't know what they are missing with a wheel

 

[t.o.]

Personally I like playing these games with pad and wheel. Sometimes it's just easier to turn on the system and do a race or two with a pad rather than bring out the whole wheel setup (no dedicated setup right now) and then go into racing. Half the times I play FM4 (or GT5) is to buy and build a car, maybe test it out real quick and have it saved in my garage until I get the wheel out.

I can do both, and I think the better immersion and more fun with more control is with the wheel but I would not discredit a pad player. Pad players just don't know what they are missing with a wheel

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[Spagetti69]

Due to Forzas inability to work with a Wheel/pad combo ive had to resort to a pad for photo oportunitys.

When I use a pad I can hardly drive the thing lol. I'm all over the place. Guess in just to used to the wheel.

In previous games when I was used to the pad. The physics were indeed basically the same. Cars would oversteer and understeer in the same situation as a wheel user.
It's just what you've grown accustomed too. I've always said that a buffer has to be used with a pad, it's common sense. The buffer however is really good. So good in fact you wouldn't notice it anyhow. That's how it should be.

 

[MaDHaX]

On a related point I have been doing a little testing with regard to track surface and its effect on the car, and while this is limited to one car (all I had time with last night) it does clearly show that it is present.

I used a Corvette Racing ZR-1 at Le Mans (why not after all it is topical) and on any of the long straights you can feel the transition of the surface bumps from low speed suspension movement as the car visibly moves but its not felt through the steering, through to higher speed suspension travel as the car increases speed at which point it can be felt through the steering as well as being seen visually. Once the car is at it's V-max the steering is twitching but its not being deflected (nor should it be on a car of this type) as long as you don't try and steer. However even small steering inputs cause the track surface and the high speed suspension travel to have an effect on steering response.

Over the larger rumble strips on the track its also quite possible for either the front or the rear of the car to get unbalanced from the force, causing the steering correct you mentioned to be required.

In-car 50% speed - rear deflection causing steering correction to be needed


Trackside view


So it would appear that FM4 does simulate this, we have no way of knowing exactly how accurate it is, but certainly it feels 'right' and is certainly present.

I'm not so sure that it is Scaff, I know that in FM4 the physics is abit strange when you hit the rumble strip and more often than not you are going to have to correct the back end of the car. However our discussion earlier does not relate to the video you made, let me explain. The other video you posted is completely different in what the car and driver is doing to what you did on the video, the first video the car did not slip out at all, rather he was getting resistance from the wheel while hitting bump's in the turns. That resistance when you hit a bump does not exist in FM4 and does in GT5

 

[Goshin2568]

This is dragging on because, to be blunt, you seem to not understand that simply because others have a different view when it comes to a sim we are still capable of enjoying the simulation and understanding the physics.

I'm not going to deny it. I mentioned from the get-go that I didn't understand how you were capable of enjoying the simulation, and I still don't. I just wanted to know how you did. I guess there isn't an answer, and there won't ever be an answer. I'm glad to put this to rest haha.

 

[MaDHaX]

Ahh found it! this is the video I watched over a year ago, now take a look at how the driver is constantly fighting with the wheel in a real RUF around Nordschliefe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9jj8YGQWGA

 

[Scaff]

Ahh found it! this is the video I watched over a year ago, now take a look at how the driver is constantly fighting with the wheel in a real RUF around Nordschliefe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9jj8YGQWGA

You need to watch the video with the trackside footage as well (3 mins onwards but the bumper cam prior shows it as well), a lot of that (not all of it) is countersteer, the car is sideways for a LOT of the time. What isn't is highspeed feedback and deflection caused by the curbs and track surface (which was far bumpier when this was shot). Now does FM4 get every bit of that high speed feedback right? Almost certainly not, however I would rather have that than the feedback GT5 gives which contains lowspeed (that's suspension velocity not car speed) and engine FFB that should not be present.



The driver is Stefan Roser, otherwise known as Sideways Stefan Roser (honest you can google it).

You are right that GT5 does throw a lot more through the steering at you, but as I have already explained a lot of it shouldn't be routed via steering feedback. Does that mean that FM4 is wrong, not at all, however it also doesn't mean it perfect either. Its a personal call but I would rather take the feedback FM4 gives rather than the overpopulated noise that GT5 gives.

Now while FM4 and GT5 do both have the Yellowbird a comparison is difficult as the 'ring in FM4 is far from great and the track itself has been massively resurfaced since the video was shot and the curbs have changed out of almost all measure.

BTW - I also can't agree that FM4 throws the back of the car out on every rumble strip, the lap of Le Sarthe I did in the ZR-1 had a few occurrences of it per lap and them depend on the curb in question and the speed and angle you hit it at.

 

[MaDHaX]

wow what a driver, he drives like he has a deathwish...lol and I know he is driving that car with respect but it looks like he aint showing that RUF any respect at all...lol nice video. I've never heard of him before but I do know that the car has alot of HP and because of the way the car configuration being rear engined rear wheel drive is why he was driving that way, but still I can see that the wheel wants to rip his arms off, i'm sure you noticed that too, he had a firm grip on the wheel and he was constantly fighting with it. I do get resistance in FM4 but not that kind of sudden and violent resistance feedback which is what I want.

BTW how do you post up a video on the thread? mine was a link because I dont know how to put up a video yet.

Also which wheel do you use because I dont get resistance like you say you do, i'm on a GT2 and wondering if the new firmware will improve on the resistance and feedback for FM4.

I want to ask you another question Scaff sorry but need to clear my head of these questions

I know that GT5 and FM4 are both sim's but feedback are very noticably different even though I changed the settings to make both games feel the same as possible the main difference is that resistance feedback, now there is 2 factors of why I think it is different:-

1. wireless vs. wired

2. polyphony's interpretation of feedback vs. Turn 10's.

Undoubtebly Turn 10 is getting better in delivering quality not just the game but in the way the cars feel and without a doubt I know that the next installment the feedback will be better or rather should be. I got to ask why is the wheels connected to the xbox wirelessly, they should have given the option to have it with or without the usb because the technology is different, could that have an effect on the way feedback is translated to the wheel?

Edited:- to be honest I rather the feedback that I got from GT5 and I think if Forza 5 could have that sudden resistance FFB I think forza could well take the crown in every aspect of the game.

In my opinion track layout is better on GT5

Car selection better on FM4

Engine noise better on FM4

Tuning is better on FM4 because you have to tune a car upto the specified PI in GT5 you can downtune a car to meet regulation's which I very much dislike, it isnt professional and I cant help but think polyphony changed it because people found it hard to maximize tuning potential. It wasnt like that when it was first released, they changed it in an update which got me annoyed.

Customization is better on FM4

but i got to say for me FFB is better on GT5 only because of the resistance. FM4 FFB is still damn good.
Also think graphics is better on GT5 on track, off track in garage looking at the cars FM4 graphics are better.

I still cannot give a verdict on which I think is the better game, appart of me is saying FM4 wins just because of the sheer quality of customer satisfaction with cars and dlc, polyphony seriously lack's in that department but let's not forget that polyphony did get affected by the tsunami and had to move because of the nuclear radiation leak. But when it comes to certain thing's in game which they change I don't understand who they get their advice off, such as the HP limiter and how fast the tyre's wear out.

 

[t.o.]

wow what a driver, he drives like he has a deathwish...lol and I know he is driving that car with respect but it looks like he aint showing that RUF any respect at all...lol nice video. I've never heard of him before but I do know that the car has alot of HP and because of the way the car configuration being rear engined rear wheel drive is why he was driving that way, but still I can see that the wheel wants to rip his arms off, i'm sure you noticed that too, he had a firm grip on the wheel and he was constantly fighting with it. I do get resistance in FM4 but not that kind of sudden and violent resistance feedback which is what I want.

I see him fighting to keep the car out of the trees but all this constant arm-ripping you're talking about I don't see. All I see is him trying to keep the car straight when sliding it around. If I were to do all of what he was doing in GT5 it'd be unrealistically tiring.

 

[nofxmike06]

I recently bought all the Porsche cars I could afford in the Forza 4 expansion. I find that, for me, Forza 4 and GT5 are so similar in the physics that I can jump from one to the other and feel like i've been practicing. I've been reading as many replies as I can find on this post as well as the thread on GTplanet.net. All I can propose is: everyone who enjoys cars, sim racing on consoles, and winning lots and lots of money buy both Forza 4 and GT5 because supporting too good franchises is a way for we the consumer to keep the developers honest and competitive with each other. I'm glad that Forza exists to make GT5 better and vice versa. /end blanket statement to weed out the passive aggressive/short attention span reader. Now, my POINT is, as I was so rudely interupted, that GT5 has the more accurate physics. GT5 simply makes me try harder when cornering. The weight distribution is more evident in GT5 and I can therefore brake accurately and more precisely because of it. I can't explain the math and I bet many people who will attack me for this viewpoint can't either but that doesn't discount it. Judging by the maniacal responses and personal attacks mixed with childish, passive aggressive ranting salvos hurled at others who posted this viewpoint, I expect the metal rain in a few seconds of me posting this gem of an insult to all Forza players...Oh wait its not an insult but it will be taken that way. I play Forza and I love the new Porsche sounds. If you'd like to insult my username its a close version of the username of that one dude in that one movie about those transformers. Its not meant to be literal as I'm married and have no need to be a ladies' man anymore.(que ball and chain jokes) Que the "glad you're leaving" "I'm smarter than you anyway" "cool story, amateur" "I'm an elistist and but you're the worst" responses...aww the internet.

 

[Goshin2568]

I recently bought all the Porsche cars I could afford in the Forza 4 expansion. I find that, for me, Forza 4 and GT5 are so similar in the physics that I can jump from one to the other and feel like i've been practicing. I've been reading as many replies as I can find on this post as well as the thread on GTplanet.net. All I can propose is: everyone who enjoys cars, sim racing on consoles, and winning lots and lots of money buy both Forza 4 and GT5 because supporting too good franchises is a way for we the consumer to keep the developers honest and competitive with each other. I'm glad that Forza exists to make GT5 better and vice versa. /end blanket statement to weed out the passive aggressive/short attention span reader. Now, my POINT is, as I was so rudely interupted, that GT5 has the more accurate physics. GT5 simply makes me try harder when cornering. The weight distribution is more evident in GT5 and I can therefore brake accurately and more precisely because of it. I can't explain the math and I bet many people who will attack me for this viewpoint can't either but that doesn't discount it. Judging by the maniacal responses and personal attacks mixed with childish, passive aggressive ranting salvos hurled at others who posted this viewpoint, I expect the metal rain in a few seconds of me posting this gem of an insult to all Forza players...Oh wait its not an insult but it will be taken that way. I play Forza and I love the new Porsche sounds. If you'd like to insult my username its a close version of the username of that one dude in that one movie about those transformers. Its not meant to be literal as I'm married and have no need to be a ladies' man anymore.(que ball and chain jokes) Que the "glad you're leaving" "I'm smarter than you anyway" "cool story, amateur" "I'm an elistist and but you're the worst" responses...aww the internet.

More accurate physics or not, the major problems with GT5's tire model (or lack of) give FM4 the upper hand overall.

 

[MaDHaX]

I see him fighting to keep the car out of the trees but all this constant arm-ripping you're talking about I don't see. All I see is him trying to keep the car straight when sliding it around. If I were to do all of what he was doing in GT5 it'd be unrealistically tiring.

LOL t.o. I didnt mean literally, it was a figure of speech. As for the driving I think that it's right for GT5 to make you tired driving a car like that around the nurburgring. Why? because if you could drive the same way as Sideways Stefan Roser can in real life as well as in game I think that you would take back your statement. GT5 does in my opinion do a good job of tiring out wheel users which also in my opinion is closer to reality, why do I say that? because it is very tiring to be driving on the limit for an hour in real life, sure it would be less tiring if you are a strong fit lad but then that would also apply for you on GT5 which is actually easier to drive than real life. I can drive all day on my wheel in my living room but I doubt that I could do that amount of hours in real life without endangering my life.

 

[Scaff]

wow what a driver, he drives like he has a deathwish...lol and I know he is driving that car with respect but it looks like he aint showing that RUF any respect at all...lol nice video. I've never heard of him before but I do know that the car has alot of HP and because of the way the car configuration being rear engined rear wheel drive is why he was driving that way, but still I can see that the wheel wants to rip his arms off, i'm sure you noticed that too, he had a firm grip on the wheel and he was constantly fighting with it. I do get resistance in FM4 but not that kind of sudden and violent resistance feedback which is what I want.

He's been a test driver for Ruf for years and the film was produced as part of the promotional material for the Yellowbird.

I have to disagree about the firm grip, he actually has quite a light touch on the steering most of the time, exactly as you should do. An older 911 doesn't react well to being fought with, but you do need to be very quick and direct with the actions you make and most of what you see in regard to that in the video is correction of oversteer.

BTW how do you post up a video on the thread? mine was a link because I dont know how to put up a video yet.

you need to take the code from the youtube video link that appears after the = and post it between youtube tags, so for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6NMCSIq1k

You would take the es6NMCSIq1k and insert it between teh right tags (I will have to spell it wrong in this example so you can see what I mean.

[yuotube]es6NMCSIq1k[/yuotube]

and spelt correctly you get

Also which wheel do you use because I dont get resistance like you say you do, i'm on a GT2 and wondering if the new firmware will improve on the resistance and feedback for FM4.

I use an old MS wheel and a GT2 around a friends house. To be honest it unlikely that I would drop any money on a Fanatec myself as all mine (that the family leaves me) goes into guitars or a Series 2 Land Rover my dad and I are restoring.

I want to ask you another question Scaff sorry but need to clear my head of these questions

I know that GT5 and FM4 are both sim's but feedback are very noticably different even though I changed the settings to make both games feel the same as possible the main difference is that resistance feedback, now there is 2 factors of why I think it is different:-

1. wireless vs. wired

2. polyphony's interpretation of feedback vs. Turn 10's.

Undoubtebly Turn 10 is getting better in delivering quality not just the game but in the way the cars feel and without a doubt I know that the next installment the feedback will be better or rather should be. I got to ask why is the wheels connected to the xbox wirelessly, they should have given the option to have it with or without the usb because the technology is different, could that have an effect on the way feedback is translated to the wheel?

To be honest the wired vs wireless is likely to have little to do with it and its PD and T10's differing interpretation of feedback combined with differing uses of the motors within the wheels.

Edited:- to be honest I rather the feedback that I got from GT5 and I think if Forza 5 could have that sudden resistance FFB I think forza could well take the crown in every aspect of the game.

We differ in regard to which one we prefer, as for me T10 gets it already simply based on the tyre feedback, GT5 has almost none. However I am always happy for more progression in am area of the sim.

In my opinion track layout is better on GT5

Car selection better on FM4

Engine noise better on FM4

Tuning is better on FM4 because you have to tune a car upto the specified PI in GT5 you can downtune a car to meet regulation's which I very much dislike, it isnt professional and I cant help but think polyphony changed it because people found it hard to maximize tuning potential. It wasnt like that when it was first released, they changed it in an update which got me annoyed.

Customization is better on FM4

but i got to say for me FFB is better on GT5 only because of the resistance. FM4 FFB is still damn good.
Also think graphics is better on GT5 on track, off track in garage looking at the cars FM4 graphics are better.

I still cannot give a verdict on which I think is the better game, appart of me is saying FM4 wins just because of the sheer quality of customer satisfaction with cars and dlc, polyphony seriously lack's in that department but let's not forget that polyphony did get affected by the tsunami and had to move because of the nuclear radiation leak. But when it comes to certain thing's in game which they change I don't understand who they get their advice off, such as the HP limiter and how fast the tyre's wear out.

Can't really argue with a lot of that, but I would add that some of the issues and compromises PD made are now deal breakers for me.

The tyre and suspension model in GT5 is so outdated that it feels dead to me a lot of the time, I ran through the first 3 rounds of the GTA and just stopped, nothing about it drew me it at all.

I recently bought all the Porsche cars I could afford in the Forza 4 expansion. I find that, for me, Forza 4 and GT5 are so similar in the physics that I can jump from one to the other and feel like i've been practicing. I've been reading as many replies as I can find on this post as well as the thread on GTplanet.net. All I can propose is: everyone who enjoys cars, sim racing on consoles, and winning lots and lots of money buy both Forza 4 and GT5 because supporting too good franchises is a way for we the consumer to keep the developers honest and competitive with each other. I'm glad that Forza exists to make GT5 better and vice versa. /end blanket statement to weed out the passive aggressive/short attention span reader.

OK - not a great start as digs at any users are not acceptable here, just as they are not at GT Planet.

Now, my POINT is, as I was so rudely interupted, that GT5 has the more accurate physics. GT5 simply makes me try harder when cornering. The weight distribution is more evident in GT5 and I can therefore brake accurately and more precisely because of it. I can't explain the math and I bet many people who will attack me for this viewpoint can't either but that doesn't discount it.

No one interrupted you that I am aware of?

Now in regard to you comment here I can assure you that no one will attack you for holding it, and should they do so then the sharp end of the AUP will be the next thing they see.

They are however perfectly free to point out what they disagree with in regard to your opinion, counter it and ask you to provide examples so we can all test it.

Attacking an argument is perfectly acceptable here (and at GTP), attacking the person is not.

Judging by the maniacal responses and personal attacks mixed with childish, passive aggressive ranting salvos hurled at others who posted this viewpoint, I expect the metal rain in a few seconds of me posting this gem of an insult to all Forza players...Oh wait its not an insult but it will be taken that way.

I seriously doubt it will be taken that way, but to be honest the rather defensive manner in which you post and the derogatory manner in which you are making assumptions about members here is not a good start at all.

You are perfectly free to hold any opinion you want, as are others, we are all free to disagree with each other. The rules are quite simple in that regard, however anything posted as fact must be supported with evidence and personally attacks are not permitted.

I play Forza and I love the new Porsche sounds. If you'd like to insult my username its a close version of the username of that one dude in that one movie about those transformers. Its not meant to be literal as I'm married and have no need to be a ladies' man anymore.(que ball and chain jokes) Que the "glad you're leaving" "I'm smarter than you anyway" "cool story, amateur" "I'm an elistist and but you're the worst" responses...aww the internet.

I'm at a loss to understand why you are opening your membership with an assumption you will be personally attacked and using as examples comments that no one has come close to saying here?

 

[Goshin2568]

LOL t.o. I didnt mean literally, it was a figure of speech. As for the driving I think that it's right for GT5 to make you tired driving a car like that around the nurburgring. Why? because if you could drive the same way as Sideways Stefan Roser can in real life as well as in game I think that you would take back your statement. GT5 does in my opinion do a good job of tiring out wheel users which also in my opinion is closer to reality, why do I say that? because it is very tiring to be driving on the limit for an hour in real life, sure it would be less tiring if you are a strong fit lad but then that would also apply for you on GT5 which is actually easier to drive than real life. I can drive all day on my wheel in my living room but I doubt that I could do that amount of hours in real life without endangering my life.

I don't know if adding in fake effects just to make the user more tired is the best way to go about that.

Also, remember the allowed play that's built into cars as a safety feature. I'm not sure what the technical definition is, but it adds play in the steering at higher speed's so that you don't twitch and spin out or accidentally change lanes on the highway from slight wheel movement. If you ever watch videos of street cars being driven very fast, drivers will often be moving the wheel back and forth a little, just because it's so light near the center.

 

[Scaff]

I don't know if adding in fake effects just to make the user more tired is the best way to go about that.

Also, remember the allowed play that's built into cars as a safety feature. I'm not sure what the technical definition is, but it adds play in the steering at higher speed's so that you don't twitch and spin out or accidentally change lanes on the highway from slight wheel movement. If you ever watch videos of street cars being driven very fast, drivers will often be moving the wheel back and forth a little, just because it's so light near the center.

With power assisted steering your referring to Speed Sensitive Steering which adjusts the level of assistance as speeds increase so that you don't do exactly as you have described above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering#Speed_Sensitive_Steering

It's also achieved by adding a deadzone to the steering or can simply be the byproduct of older type of steering assembly.

 

[MaDHaX]

He's been a test driver for Ruf for years and the film was produced as part of the promotional material for the Yellowbird.

Ah that explains why he understands how the car handles and is able to keep it stable under extreme limit's and why in the second video you linked the 2nd lap was a continued lap after the video link that I had posted with the extra camera's plus the helicopter cam. When I first watched the video I thought that he was the owner of the car and that he knew it very well before he took it to the ring

I have to disagree about the firm grip, he actually has quite a light touch on the steering most of the time, exactly as you should do. An older 911 doesn't react well to being fought with, but you do need to be very quick and direct with the actions you make and most of what you see in regard to that in the video is correction of oversteer.

Ok and point taken, I know how hard it is to drive that car from driving it in GT5. Especially without a good setup it is extremely difficult to drive fast. However I think you're missing the point that i'm trying to make and that is, he is getting pullback resistance which I do not feel in FM4.

What I will do as soon as Microsoft fix the update so I get consistent feedback through my wheel and when I get the new firmware from Fanatec is drive the same said RUF Yellowbird around Nordschliefe on both games with the standard setup and give my feedback on here. If I had a video capture card it would be even better if I could put them side by side. I will save the replays and hope to get a card in future.

you need to take the code from the youtube video link that appears after the = and post it between youtube tags, so for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6NMCSIq1k

You would take the es6NMCSIq1k and insert it between teh right tags (I will have to spell it wrong in this example so you can see what I mean.

[yuotube]es6NMCSIq1k[/yuotube]

and spelt correctly you get

thanks buddy

I use an old MS wheel and a GT2 around a friends house. To be honest it unlikely that I would drop any money on a Fanatec myself as all mine (that the family leaves me) goes into guitars or a Series 2 Land Rover my dad and I are restoring.

I'm sorry to hear that but why don't you try convincing them you need a new toy. I'm sure you're aware of how good the wheel is, it is a work of art. Who knows maybe your Father might even take to it and enjoy using it more than you do

To be honest the wired vs wireless is likely to have little to do with it and its PD and T10's differing interpretation of feedback combined with differing uses of the motors within the wheels.

Wireless could be an issue need to ask someone who understand's it. Yeah I think it is more likely T10 but i'm sure in the next two instalment's we will see a massive improvement with physics and i'm hoping feedback. My experience in both games are on the GT2.

We differ in regard to which one we prefer, as for me T10 gets it already simply based on the tyre feedback, GT5 has almost none. However I am always happy for more progression in am area of the sim.

Yes I think our dissagreement is probably due to our time spent in the game and relating it to reality. I've played GT series since the first and only recently within 4 month's I had started playing Forza and last two week's of that has been on wheel, suffice to say though I have adapted pretty well. I'm assuming you have played Forza from the first? how much experience have you had on the GT series?

Can't really argue with a lot of that, but I would add that some of the issues and compromises PD made are now deal breakers for me.

The tyre and suspension model in GT5 is so outdated that it feels dead to me a lot of the time, I ran through the first 3 rounds of the GTA and just stopped, nothing about it drew me it at all.

Yep some of those updates along with no decent dlc was deal breakers for, but the big thing for me was the sound of cars and no Porsche, but at the very least they could have given us premium RUF cars don't understand why they did'nt.

Yes I agree that the tyre physics and suspension needs a major revamp as they are dated. The GTA is very difficult to be competitive even for me as a GT veteren I find it almost impossible to be competitive with the top guy's but having said that there is a trick to most of the challenges. Someone put up a tutorial in gtplanet under GT Academy section, smoothness is the key which is difficult on slippery tyres I know but with some patience your times will shrink so quickly as you get used to it.

 

[t.o.]

The last time I drove something that had as heavy a feel in the wheel as GT5 does to cars was this:

If I EVER would test drive a sports car that felt like that it'd be the shortest test drive in history because it'd consist of a quick U-turn back to the dealer.

 

[MaDHaX]

The last time I drove something that had as heavy a feel in the wheel as GT5 does to cars was this:

If I EVER would test drive a sports car that felt like that it'd be the shortest test drive in history because it'd consist of a quick U-turn back to the dealer.

LOL t.o. that's hilarious but a serious overstatement, I would not have played GT5 for so long if it was bad. The only reason I left GT5 for FM4 is because of car choice, DLC and PORSCHE along with the sound of cars and a physics engine that rivals GT5.

There's no way I would have left had they got Porsche and had better cars in the premium list.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The last time I drove something that had as heavy a feel in the wheel as GT5 does to cars was this:

If I EVER would test drive a sports car that felt like that it'd be the shortest test drive in history because it'd consist of a quick U-turn back to the dealer.

What cars have you driven?

My RX-7 has much heavier steering than GT5...

 

[Goshin2568]

What cars have you driven?

My RX-7 has much heavier steering than GT5...

Really? You can't drive your car with one finger? Does it have power steering?

Every car I've driven I can more or less take a corner with it with one finger. In GT5 I can hardly drive with one hand, let alone one finger.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

No power steering. Doesn't really need it.

Ruf Yellowbird didn't have it
Ferrari F40 didn't have it
Mclaren F1 didn't have it
Lamborghini Countach [obviously] didn't have it

Now obviously the steering effort reduces as speed increases, but in most cases my car still has heavier steering than GT5. Why don't you reduce the FFB strength?

 

[Wolfe]

Why don't you reduce the FFB strength?

I was about to say...shouldn't you all be listing the wheels you have and the settings you use on your wheel and in the game? This stuff is variable isn't it?

 

[Goshin2568]

No power steering. Doesn't really need it.

Ruf Yellowbird didn't have it
Ferrari F40 didn't have it
Mclaren F1 didn't have it
Lamborghini Countach [obviously] didn't have it

Now obviously the steering effort reduces as speed increases, but in most cases my car still has heavier steering than GT5. Why don't you reduce the FFB strength?

Well first off..... Duh. If your car doesn't have power steering of course it will be really heavy.

Secondly, because reducing FFB strength also reduces FFB feel, and heaven knows GT5 already is lacking there.

 

[t.o.]

What cars have you driven?

My RX-7 has much heavier steering than GT5...

Really? You can't drive your car with one finger? Does it have power steering?

Every car I've driven I can more or less take a corner with it with one finger. In GT5 I can hardly drive with one hand, let alone one finger.

No power steering. Doesn't really need it.

Come on man, if it's heavy but first you say but .....

 

[Scaff]

I'm sorry to hear that but why don't you try convincing them you need a new toy. I'm sure you're aware of how good the wheel is, it is a work of art. Who knows maybe your Father might even take to it and enjoy using it more than you do

Of the many new toys I need I would still rather drop money on real cars and/or guitars than a sim (and at 41 my wife and kids leave me little free money for toys).

Don't get me wrong I'm the money turns up I would get one, but in a straight battle for £500 a new valve head would win any day.

Wireless could be an issue need to ask someone who understand's it. Yeah I think it is more likely T10 but i'm sure in the next two instalment's we will see a massive improvement with physics and i'm hoping feedback. My experience in both games are on the GT2.

Its a digital signal being sent wirelessly and the days of serious lag from that kind of tech are pretty much gone. So while it would be nice for people to have the option I don't think its the route cause of the differences.

Yes I think our dissagreement is probably due to our time spent in the game and relating it to reality. I've played GT series since the first and only recently within 4 month's I had started playing Forza and last two week's of that has been on wheel, suffice to say though I have adapted pretty well. I'm assuming you have played Forza from the first? how much experience have you had on the GT series?

I've still have every release in the GT series, including all Prologue and Concept titles and all UK release demos discs (including the BMW 1-series one which was the first to have the 'ring), all purchased on the day of release.

My history with the GT series is actually far stronger than my history with Forza (which I also have every release of but apart from FM4 were bought after release), however my experience with both series is long and I have carried out a quite ridiculous amount of testing, in particular with the GT series. To relate it to the real world I've worked in and around the motor industry for most of my adult life, with a good amount of time in product training.

I think its also important to note that my preference in terms of physics between the two series has always been with GT, its the work T10 have put into FM4 and in particular the tyre and suspension modelling that has shown the vast improvements them have made in that area.

Yep some of those updates along with no decent dlc was deal breakers for, but the big thing for me was the sound of cars and no Porsche, but at the very least they could have given us premium RUF cars don't understand why they did'nt.

Physics and how it relates to tuning have always been the two main draws to a sim for me (and still are), things like DLC and car selection are icing but the failure of PD to move on with the physics engine have done a lot of damage to the GT series for me, to he point that GT6 will not currently be a launch day purchase for me unless they are able to demonstrate a significant improvemnents has been made, particularly in the tyre and suspension models.

Yes I agree that the tyre physics and suspension needs a major revamp as they are dated. The GTA is very difficult to be competitive even for me as a GT veteren I find it almost impossible to be competitive with the top guy's but having said that there is a trick to most of the challenges. Someone put up a tutorial in gtplanet under GT Academy section, smoothness is the key which is difficult on slippery tyres I know but with some patience your times will shrink so quickly as you get used to it.

I don't agree that smoothness is the only key to success in the GTA, abusing the issues with the physics engine are also a major key (and is a big topic in this regard over at GT Planet).

The lack of actual feedback from the tyres just doesn't make the GTA enjoyable for me at all, the transition from grip to loss is just not even close to real and having to be smooth to avoid a serious issue with the tyre model is not the same as having to be smooth to get the most out f a tyre.

 

[t.o.]

The lack of actual feedback from the tyres just doesn't make the GTA enjoyable for me at all, the transition from grip to loss is just not even close to real and having to be smooth to avoid a serious issue with the tyre model is not the same as having to be smooth to get the most out f a tyre.

Everything. This is the reason why I can't seriously spend any time doing the GTA and I'm a competitive person secretly. These issues outweigh the competitiveness. The only thing really that makes me think about it is that I and another board member here have a little friendly mini-rivalry sorta. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't touch the game and haven't touched it in a few days. I don't think I spent a week's worth of days on the event since it first came out.

 

[MaDHaX]

Of the many new toys I need I would still rather drop money on real cars and/or guitars than a sim (and at 41 my wife and kids leave me little free money for toys).

Don't get me wrong I'm the money turns up I would get one, but in a straight battle for £500 a new valve head would win any day.

Understandable, I hope you advance to go and collect your £200 toward's the wheel

Its a digital signal being sent wirelessly and the days of serious lag from that kind of tech are pretty much gone. So while it would be nice for people to have the option I don't think its the route cause of the differences.

Yeah the technology certainly is good, however my wheel has disconnected from console twice not sure why.

I've still have every release in the GT series, including all Prologue and Concept titles and all UK release demos discs (including the BMW 1-series one which was the first to have the 'ring), all purchased on the day of release.

My history with the GT series is actually far stronger than my history with Forza (which I also have every release of but apart from FM4 were bought after release), however my experience with both series is long and I have carried out a quite ridiculous amount of testing, in particular with the GT series. To relate it to the real world I've worked in and around the motor industry for most of my adult life, with a good amount of time in product training.

I think its also important to note that my preference in terms of physics between the two series has always been with GT, its the work T10 have put into FM4 and in particular the tyre and suspension modelling that has shown the vast improvements them have made in that area.

I am from the same background, I didnt keep all the releases but I did buy the main release full game GT's, I bought every FM since 1 also but didnt like them as much except for FM4. I dont see a problem with GT5 physics I think it is great but does need a revamp in tyre modelling and suspension tuning as FM4 has more options in the tuning menu.

I wish I were lucky enough to get a job in the motor industry, I would never look for another job ever again.

Physics and how it relates to tuning have always been the two main draws to a sim for me (and still are), things like DLC and car selection are icing but the failure of PD to move on with the physics engine have done a lot of damage to the GT series for me, to he point that GT6 will not currently be a launch day purchase for me unless they are able to demonstrate a significant improvemnents has been made, particularly in the tyre and suspension models..

That is the main reason why I also like to play sim driving games, I like to try out so many different cars and try to tune them to be faster.
I was dissapointed with certain actions that PD decided to take and I also will not buy GT6 on release date, I want to see first hand all the changes they will make before I part with my cash.

I don't agree that smoothness is the only key to success in the GTA, abusing the issues with the physics engine are also a major key (and is a big topic in this regard over at GT Planet).

The lack of actual feedback from the tyres just doesn't make the GTA enjoyable for me at all, the transition from grip to loss is just not even close to real and having to be smooth to avoid a serious issue with the tyre model is not the same as having to be smooth to get the most out f a tyre.

I have to agree about the tyre's it is annoying how fast without warning the tyre's can loss grip.

Do you have a link for that discussion?

 

[cuco33]

Regarding no power steering... My first car was a mk2 VW GTI that had no power steering (amongst MANY other 'luxuries'... like power windows, AC, and a radio that worked but the tape deck was pulled out of it lol). It was YEARS ago but from what I remember only in parking or going VERY slow was it a problem in not having power steering. Actual driving at normal speed to even highway speed was no issue at all because the car is in motion.