Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

  • Thread starter hennessey86
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Goshin2568
If you change the sensitivity in game it will disconnect you from the console.
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Yes I am aware of that but my wheel disconnected twice without me changing anything. Also my wheel locked to the right with the accelerator jammed, did that to me twice aswell. Coincidentally I was taking a right corner on both occasions.
 
This doesnt sound to good, I'm quoting a statement Savoury69 made over on forzamotorsport.net

"I used to get quite regular issues with the throttle not reading 100% which only ever happened on the Xbox. Tested thoroughly each time on PC via USB and wheel PS/2 connection and never any problems, each time the PC drivers showed the pedals were working perfectly.

Only way I found to eradicate the issues was regularly establishing a fresh wireless connection between wheel and console.

Wireless wheels are very convenient but the connection can be problematic sometimes."

He mentioned that in here:-

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/17/5494946/ShowThread.aspx#5494946

a thread that was made regarding the issue of FFB with new microsoft update.
 
M8DH8X
This doesnt sound to good, I'm quoting a statement Savoury69 made over on forzamotorsport.net

"I used to get quite regular issues with the throttle not reading 100% which only ever happened on the Xbox. Tested thoroughly each time on PC via USB and wheel PS/2 connection and never any problems, each time the PC drivers showed the pedals were working perfectly.

Only way I found to eradicate the issues was regularly establishing a fresh wireless connection between wheel and console.

Wireless wheels are very convenient but the connection can be problematic sometimes."

He mentioned that in here:-

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/17/5494946/ShowThread.aspx#5494946

a thread that was made regarding the issue of FFB with new microsoft update.
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Yeah that's a known issue. Just reestablish the connection like once a week and you should be fine.
 
Da-bomber
Turn 10 actually use their licenses effectively unlike PD. Why has their been no Ferrari's in a DLC for GT5 when they lack so many classics.
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I find it quite laughable that even tough people always rightly criticise PD for having 10 versions of the same car in the game, their latest releases again have been cars that were already in there, but now with a dumb GT academy sticker, and the scion which is basicly the american version of the 86 GT which was already in there also :dopey:.

Dunno if all the user feedback is lost in Japanese translation, or they just don't care about customers opinion over there. Another reason why i'm glad i made the switch to Forza, just look at the lineup we are getting for July...
 
Goshin2568
For me, and I suspect 90% of every other car person on the entire face of the earth, is the interaction between man and machine. Turning the wheel and moving the pedals is why driving is fun! Catching the slide, modulating the gas, all are the things that make driving fun for me. A pad takes every single one of those things away. Is it really that different for you?
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I know this is an old post but, when I first went FSAE autocross driving, I used my experience with GT4 (mostly played with a controller) as a starting point.

What I was able to apply to the real car was mostly what I had picked up from controller driving. I learned about racing lines, traction circle, oversteer, and understeer from the controller (Never had a wheel until halfway through GT4).

The Logitech wheel wasn't particularly more helpful than the controller, as the seating position, feeling through the wheel, and pedal resistances were all different in the real car. Just as a digital wheel is a step above a controller in precision, a real car was a step above a digital wheel (though it probably helped that I was not driving on the limit very hard). Maybe if the wheel I used for GT was a replica of the wheel for the FSAE car, it could have been more helpful, but it would be unlikely for me to find such a wheel.

The point is, you can get quite a lot from the controller, it does not turn a sim into an arcade game. I prefer a wheel when playing a racing sim, but I can feel very immersed with a controller, after all the car is reacting just the same to my inputs. I can catch slides, modulate the gas, and anything else with a controller all day.

Not many would, but there isn't anything stopping someone from using a controller to drive a real car. You could even program in the steering assists that exist in GT and Forza.
 
I thought of adding something similar back then, but I figured it would distract from my point. 👍

Frankly, if you need a gaming wheel to learn anything at all from a sim, you're probably trying to learn explicitly. Understanding how a car behaves and responds at its fundamental level allows you to develop your skills implicitly, making performance driving more natural.

With a proper sim, you can still learn about vehicle dynamics with any controller. My first experiences with Live for Speed were with a 180-degree spring-loaded wheel with no FFB, and I could still tell immediately that I had discovered something far more advanced than Gran Turismo 3.
 
You may notice a few posts have disappeared. It appears some people still can't read the bullet points listed in the very first post, specifically:

hennessey86
  • The term 'fanboy' (including any and all derivations) is banned
  • Don't just post up pictures and video without any form of meaningful comment. This is a discussion thread not a picture/video gallery. Offending posts will be deleted on sight.
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This is doubly true if the video in question is nothing more than a very sweary rant. Anything like that gets posted again and I have no problems sending someone on a vacation.
 
I am using this older threat because I want to show you the difference between Forza 4 physics and Gran Turismo 5 physics. I have made 2 short videos of myself driving the same car on the same track. I have chosen a Scion FR-S (because its rear wheel drive and has only 200 HP) and Tsukuba (because it has lots of tight corners).

I didnt change anything on the cars (not even the tires) and did drive one lap. Please notice the necessary steering on my wheel to keep the car on the track. In GT5 I can drive the car without any drama. In Forza 4 I have to countersteer several times. All assists are off in both games (just ABS is on 1 in GT5).

Thanks a lot for watching:

GT5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terc5YVpDBc
FM4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8pBRJtV2g

By the way: The wheel is a Fantec CSR Elite (on full 900° in both games), the rig is a Speedmaster.
 
tomcat66
I am using this older threat because I want to show you the difference between Forza 4 physics and Gran Turismo 5 physics. I have made 2 short videos of myself driving the same car on the same track. I have chosen a Scion FR-S (because its rear wheel drive and has only 200 HP) and Tsukuba (because it has lots of tight corners).

I didnt change anything on the cars (not even the tires) and did drive one lap. Please notice the necessary steering on my wheel to keep the car on the track. In GT5 I can drive the car without any drama. In Forza 4 I have to countersteer several times. All assists are off in both games (just ABS is on 1 in GT5).

Thanks a lot for watching:

GT5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terc5YVpDBc
FM4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8pBRJtV2g

By the way: The wheel is a Fantec CSR Elite (on full 900° in both games), the rig is a Speedmaster.
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You say you didn't change anything? I am assuming you had SM tires on in GT5 then? If so, that in itself is not a fair comparison, as Sports Medium tires have way more grip then actual Stock tires. Please check, and if you did have SM tires on, please redo the video with either Comfort Hard or Comfort Medium Tires instead, thanks!
 
ShawtyoneR
You say you didn't change anything? I am assuming you had SM tires on in GT5 then? If so, that in itself is not a fair comparison, as Sports Medium tires have way more grip then actual Stock tires. Please check, and if you did have SM tires on, please redo the video with either Comfort Hard or Comfort Medium Tires instead, thanks!
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The Scion FR-S comes with Sport Hard tires as standard in GT5. And that are the tires used in my video.

But I tried the same track with CH and CM tires yesterday. It was almost impossible to make the rear axle comes "alive" even with that tires. So the video would look very much the same, just the lap times would be a little bit longer.

But I will try to make another video this weekend and upload it to youtube for you.


By the way: Those videos were originally made for the InsideSimracing-forum because the OP of this threat (hennessey86) wanted Darin and Shaun to make a show comparing GT5 with FM4. Here is the link: http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/topic/7232-forza-4-vs-gt5-episode/
 
tomcat66
The Scion FR-S comes with Sport Hard tires as standard in GT5. And that are the tires used in my video.

But I tried the same track with CH and CM tires yesterday. It was almost impossible to make the rear axle comes "alive" even with that tires. So the video would look very much the same, just the lap times would be a little bit longer.

But I will try to make another video this weekend and upload it to youtube for you.


By the way: Those videos were originally made for the InsideSimracing-forum because the OP of this threat (hennessey86) wanted Darin and Shaun to make a show comparing GT5 with FM4. Here is the link: http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/topic/7232-forza-4-vs-gt5-episode/
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Sounds good, I haven't driven the FR-S in a long time in GT5 so I just wanted to be sure, thank you! By the way, which did you prefer? Do you feel that the FR-S should move around a bit more than it does in GT5? I think it should, even though it is underpowered, giving it throttle while turning should break the back end out, as well as lifting off through high speed bends.

 
ShawtyoneR
Sounds good, I haven't driven the FR-S in a long time in GT5 so I just wanted to be sure, thank you! By the way, which did you prefer? Do you feel that the FR-S should move around a bit more than it does in GT5? I think it should, even though it is underpowered, giving it throttle while turning should break the back end out, as well as lifting off through high speed bends.

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I don't think it should.

A) It's way too underpowered to do so

B) The weight is at the front, it wouldn't make sense for it to start sliding at high speeds.

C) It does slide a lot more in GT5 than that.
 
mikecustom
I don't think it should.

A) It's way too underpowered to do so

B) The weight is at the front, it wouldn't make sense for it to start sliding at high speeds.

C) It does slide a lot more in GT5 than that.
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So then are you saying that FM's physics are over the top when it comes to oversteer? Some cases I feel it is, but not here.

No matter the power, you can get any rear wheel drive car to slide, just depends on driving style. FM's version is giving him more slip on corner exit than GT. Flooring the throttle coming out of a corner should slide the rear end with no prob in that car, regardless if it only has 200HP. Also in the vid I posted, you can see the car slide during high speed corners, regardless that the engine position is in the front, the tires are just reaching their limit.

I want to try myself right now but I just moved and all my stuff is packed up :-(
 
ShawtyoneR
So then are you saying that FM's physics are over the top when it comes to oversteer? Some cases I feel it is, but not here.

No matter the power, you can get any rear wheel drive car to slide, just depends on driving style. FM's version is giving him more slip on corner exit than GT. Flooring the throttle coming out of a corner should slide the rear end with no prob in that car, regardless if it only has 200HP. Also in the vid I posted, you can see the car slide during high speed corners, regardless that the engine position is in the front, the tires are just reaching their limit.

I want to try myself right now but I just moved and all my stuff is packed up :-(
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Yes, you could make any car do whatever you want but certainly not as easy as in FM where you only need to turn the wheel a little for the car to start sliding. Earlier today I grabbed a Fiat 500 Abarth in FM4, it was completely stock and I was going like 170 km/h around the Nurb straights, the ones that precede the Karussell which are not exactly straights but anyway. I was going at that speed in 5th gear and I just turned the wheel to go around those long-extended corners and ther rear was coming out everytime, wut? really? a fiat 500, FF and I'm getting oversteer? how the f?

So yes, FM physics are way over the top.
 
^^ FF cars..when driven at high speeds, and you take your foot off the throttle and if you're not picking lines properly, or give too much steering input... chances are your tail will give out. This is not oversteer...but rather the rear breaking loose as a result of your foot coming off the throttle in a front engine front wheel drive car. Unless you've got a sport suspension set up with grippy tires, this happens in most stock FWD cars.
 
Speedster911
^^ FF cars..when driven at high speeds, and you take your foot off the throttle and if you're not picking lines properly, or give too much steering input... chances are your tail will give out. This is not oversteer...but rather the rear breaking loose as a result of your foot coming off the throttle in a front engine front wheel drive car. Unless you've got a sport suspension set up with grippy tires, this happens in most stock FWD cars.
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But I didn't let my foot off the throttle in any of those long corners becuase like I said, a Fiat 500 never reaches high enough speeds to start braking on those corners and I'm not talking about a liitle slide, it goes like a 911.
 
^^ That's just wierd. What are your deadzone settings? Assists off?

I'm playing on a controller with steering set to SIM, all assists off. Deadzones, inside at 0, outside set to max.

Change your deadzone settings and give it a shot. Because what you're describing is just plain wierd.

If you're on a wheel, you should have the latest FM4 title update, along with the latest firmware for your wheel.
 
Speedster911
^^ That's just wierd. What are your deadzone settings? Assists off?

I'm playing on a controller with steering set to SIM, all assists off. Deadzones, inside at 0, outside set to max.

Change your deadzone settings and give it a shot. Because what you're describing is just plain wierd.

If you're on a wheel, you should have the latest FM4 title update, along with the latest firmware for your wheel.
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The problem is that the wheel I used to play FM4 wasn't mine and it's no longer with me so now I need a new wheel or maybe just stick with the gamepad. So yeah, I'm on the controller now, I did the deadzone thingy and it does make it more responsive, I still don't know what to use, ''normal'' or ''sim'', ''normal'' seems to feel more natural with the gamepad but ''sim'' seems to make the car more stable.
 
mikecustom
The problem is that the wheel I used to play FM4 wasn't mine and it's no longer with me so now I need a new wheel or maybe just stick with the gamepad. So yeah, I'm on the controller now, I did the deadzone thingy and it does make it more responsive, I still don't know what to use, ''normal'' or ''sim'', ''normal'' seems to feel more natural with the gamepad but ''sim'' seems to make the car more stable.
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The only thing i've noticed with normal vs sim is when you have to correct following loss of grip.

With sim it's harder to correct and all to often ends up in a counter steer mess and you in the wall.
 
mikecustom
The problem is that the wheel I used to play FM4 wasn't mine and it's no longer with me so now I need a new wheel or maybe just stick with the gamepad. So yeah, I'm on the controller now, I did the deadzone thingy and it does make it more responsive, I still don't know what to use, ''normal'' or ''sim'', ''normal'' seems to feel more natural with the gamepad but ''sim'' seems to make the car more stable.
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SIM will give you more control over your car. I'd highly recommend this, especially since you've adjusted your deadzones.

RPM Bibblefish
The only thing i've noticed with normal vs sim is when you have to correct following loss of grip.

With sim it's harder to correct and all to often ends up in a counter steer mess and you in the wall.
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Right, if you're in the habit of just whacking the analog stick left/right, then yes, it will have undesirable affects! Keeping the analog stick at an angle of a millimeter or more takes practice and patience. Keep your thumb lose and flexible.. breathing helps too!

Controlling high speed slides IRL, no matter what powertrain the car has, is by no means a walk in the park.
 
Best advice is just use whichever one feels more comfortable

I've used sim since the game launched, the counter steer thing is a pain but i'm used to it now and i've managed top 100's with both sim and normal. I know a few top 20 guys who use both as well so as far as i'm concerned one isn't superior to the other
 
With a controller:
  • Sim = Altered assist on steering angle, resulting in steering-inflicted understeer, even at lower speeds; very rapid/rough countersteer, resulting in twitchy oversteer and overcorrecting spins
  • Normal = Typical assist on steering angle (like 99% of games), understeer caused more by overspeeding than bad steering input; progressive countersteer that dials in and out as you adjust to the corner
In the end, it's up to you whether the more sensitive controls are worth the catastrophic mistakes. Like RPM Bibblefish said, the best course of action is to use what feels most comfortable.
 
As promised more videos from me. And this time I wanted to have a real life reference too. I failed to find a video of a Scion FR-S on Tsukuba with a camera showing the action in the cockpit. So I searched for different videos showing the FR-S. I did find this on Laguna Seca (they used a Subaru BRZ, but that it almost the same):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38WqRJf7So8

Unfortunately there are not many cockpit views and the little car is not powerful enough for this track. So I switched to more powerful cars. I found this video, where they have driven a Corvette ZR1 and a Viper GTS on Laguna Seca (the hot lap in the ZR1 begins at 08:25):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgJxgNSWtk

So I tried to duplicate this lap with Forza 4 and Gran Turismo 5. I couldnt use the Viper because GT5 only has the old version with a lot less HP. So I just used the ZR1.

FM4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYNUGRR0eK8
GT5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE9Ydc4jzUg

Again both cars are stock (in GT5 the ZR1 has sport hard tires). This time I connected the sound output directly to my mic-in of my camera (HD Hero2) so you will be able to hear the game sound much better. I also switched to a different mounting position.

This time I had to countersteer in both games ... and had to drive very carefully with that powerful car without any driving assists switched on ;-) I had a lot of fun with both games but the driving expierence is still different. And I like Forza more. Oh, by the way: I didnt use my manual gear shift in GT5 because the clutch is still not working properly in this game.

Just for fun I also did drive the ZR1 in Forza Horizon. The car handles very similar in that game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FN6DIxHtI
 
For the best, most accurate and realistic experience = SIM steering. But that's just my opinion. Casual gamers might want to stick to NORMAL.

^^ Wolfe gives a good explanation.
 

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