Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Thatman]

^wall of text....

 

[mikecustom]

OK, let's be honest here, who seriously thought that FM4 graphics were good or even comparable to GT5? Before I purchased FM4 all I saw over the internet were people saying FM4 graphics were ''realistic'' and ''superior'' than GT5's. Seriously, I'm shocked now, what the hell were they talking about? where?

3D trees that look worse than GT5's 2D trees? better track detail that looks worse than GT5's low res textures? It doesn't make any sense, all that's said over the internet is non-existent when you see the game in front of you.

I felt the need to compare FM4 with Shift 2 just because they are very similar games and the moment I saw Shift 2 after many months I was blown away, amazing cockpit views, insane and realistic reflections and lightning. The tracks looked all worn out and destroyed. amazing...

I seriously don't see where the hell FM4's graphics are, it looks like a last-gen game to me everywhere. the interiors, the tracks, the cars. Even Autovista looks too artificial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6vXJa7vS24

He's got to be joking.

 

[HAL20XX]

^^^ I have to agree with you. I think the one plus that FM4 has over GT5 is consistency. However, when GT5 shines, it puts FM's best to shame.

You can't really fault T10 for it, though. They had to make certain concessions to hit a constant 60 FPS (which GT5 cannot claim) on hardware that was 6-years old at the time.

You would think that Horizon's 30 FPS would bump the graphics ante, but with the inclusion of day/night transitions and impressive draw distances, the 360 just doesn't have enough power left.

Plus the team at PD have a knack for realistic lighting.

 

[Wolfe]

Huh. The earlier Forza games always looked like candy-colored, unfinished tech demos to me, but the only thing that bothers me about FM4 is that generic sheen on the road surface. The tracks don't seem that disparate to me, but the Nordschleife is obviously a huge contrast.

Horizon is positively gorgeous with its ray-traced haze (I don't care that it's overdone), but I wish it had the headlight effects of Shift 2 and some weather like Dirt 3. Some of the distant scenery is sparse/polygonal but it's nothing like FM4's literally empty voids beyond the track walls. It's clearly time to move on from the humble DVD.

 

[VXR]

I really hope the next Forza is next gen. Do it justice and bring the graphics and variety in line with the handling and amazing audio.

 

[mikecustom]

Huh. The earlier Forza games always looked like candy-colored, unfinished tech demos to me, but the only thing that bothers me about FM4 is that generic sheen on the road surface. The tracks don't seem that disparate to me, but the Nordschleife is obviously a huge contrast.

Horizon is positively gorgeous with its ray-traced haze (I don't care that it's overdone), but I wish it had the headlight effects of Shift 2 and some weather like Dirt 3. Some of the distant scenery is sparse/polygonal but it's nothing like FM4's literally empty voids beyond the track walls. It's clearly time to move on from the humble DVD.

Yeah, Horizon looks gorgeous, everything has a better feel to it than in FM4, the dash views are better than FM4's. Horizon gets a little too orange at times though but it's a better looking game. I seriously think Shift 2 even puts GT5 to shame in some areas, best interiors I've ever seen position and texture wise and I love how the car get's dirty with mud and bugs, when you finish a race, you'll see all the dirt that gathered on the front, really nice attention to detail.

Also, I think FM4 would benefit a lot if they changed the surface color, just a little darker tone of gray, especially on Circuit de la Sarthe, they have a very light gray but really dark skidmarks which look unnatural.

 

[Wolfe]

Didn't realize you were playing Horizon too, mike. I've sent a FR your way.

Shift 2 has some truly excellent details, but the car models and reflections aren't nearly as impressive. Interestingly enough, the Caterham in that game is a glaring example of what Turn 10 wants to avoid in open-wheeled cars.

Hopefully we'll get dirt accumulation in FM5/FH2; it's a shame Horizon couldn't manage it. I love how in Enthusia your car gets dust-caked on the gravel tracks and snow-scummy on Wintertraum. It seems like a small thing until it's absent.

 

[cuco33]

Mike I would suggest you take a look at your xbox360 connection and settings because FM4 is a really good looking game. GT5 to me looks more realistic due to the better color palette and lighting engine but that is the problem, because that tends to be mostly true on premium cars and tracks. Take a standard car on a legacy track like Trial Mountain and you start to wonder if it is the same GT5 game that just made your jaw drop. GT still suffers from awful flickering shadows and it is great that it has weather but transparencies like rain and mist, even smoke and dirt pickup just doesn't look good. When the stars are aligned, gt5 to me looks the best. Forza 4 though still looks great though. Greenwalt is the head, all he is doing is PR speak promoting his game. I am with wolfe here, the overblown lighting on some tracks is something I am not a fan of and carries over to the over shine on cars at times. Lighting engine was improved but it needs more and I hope FM5 is on the next system taking advantage of more powerful hardware. And speaking of next gen I hope gt6 is on ps4 with more improvements and additions but NO standard nor prologue nonsense. Oh and a complete overhaul of the audio is a must for me.

I will disagree though that horizon feels better than fm4. The dash views, car models, etc are also the same as fm4. Only lighting is different as horizon does night transition (thanks to slower 30fps). I have also personally been to Le Mans and follow the annual race all the time. Nothing unnatural looking about FM4 version. Most of the track is town roads that link up to the Bugatti circuit so is only run hard on that one week a year (big festival all week long, few races before main 24hr race, test n tune n qualifiers).

Which reminds me... wtf happened to the Bugatti circuit in fm4?! I loved it in fm3 and is gone, not even in dlc form for fm4?!!

 

[mikecustom]

Didn't realize you were playing Horizon too, mike. I've sent a FR your way.

Shift 2 has some truly excellent details, but the car models and reflections aren't nearly as impressive. Interestingly enough, the Caterham in that game is a glaring example of what Turn 10 wants to avoid in open-wheeled cars.

Hopefully we'll get dirt accumulation in FM5/FH2; it's a shame Horizon couldn't manage it. I love how in Enthusia your car gets dust-caked on the gravel tracks and snow-scummy on Wintertraum. It seems like a small thing until it's absent.

OK, well I've only rented it, I'm getting it for sure but I don't know when, probably this weekend. I still have to decide if I'm going to start paying for Xbox LIVE though, my free month trial ends this weekend and if I'm going to pay for it I'm going for the full year, so it's 60 bucks for xbox live or 50 (maybe less) for Horizon.

Cuco, I think my TV settings are where I want them to be. Maybe the game would look better if an expert came down and fine tune it for me but I doubt it. I first tried the exact same settings as GT5 but that didn't work. I had to really tune the contrast and exposure both in-game and with my TV, also had to personalize colors such as green to make it look less colorful. I don't know, it's a matter of preference, I think grass and trees look more realistic with darker shades of green.

Now. I have the xbox plugged into my TV with a 25 bucks HDMI cable which I think should be enough, I've also tried it with the same HDMI cable my PS3 and GT5 uses, I have both systems plugged into the same TV actually, so I don't think it's a ''setting up'' problem, I've gathered some tips from here to make the game look better too.

 

[Wolfe]

OK, well I've only rented it, I'm getting it for sure but I don't know when, probably this weekend. I still have to decide if I'm going to start paying for Xbox LIVE though, my free month trial ends this weekend and if I'm going to pay for it I'm going for the full year, so it's 60 bucks for xbox live or 50 (maybe less) for Horizon.

Don't worry about it, I'm Silver now and don't know when exactly I'll have Gold again -- all I do currently is Rivals mode. My fiancée and I will be moving in a few weeks.

I don't know, it's a matter of preference, I think grass and trees look more realistic with darker shades of green.

One thing about my trip to the Nordschleife several years ago -- the grass is a brighter shade than I expected. That brilliant, alpine, The-Sound-of-Music green. Gran Turismo has the correct hue.

 

[mikecustom]

Don't worry about it, I'm Silver now and don't know when exactly I'll have Gold again -- all I do currently is Rivals mode. My fiancée and I will be moving in a few weeks.


One thing about my trip to the Nordschleife several years ago -- the grass is a brighter shade than I expected. That brilliant, alpine, The-Sound-of-Music green. Gran Turismo has the correct hue.

Lol, and I've always tried to tone it down in GT5

 

[tomcat66]

I was very unhappy with the video in FM4 for a long time. I was getting some "shudder" with small horizontal lines on my LCD-TV (Sony). That was very annoying with tracks that needs to lock in the distant - like Le Mans. I blamed the internal 720 garphics in the XBOX. Now I fooled around with my TV-settings and improved the picture a lot. But GT5 has still the better graphics. Unfortunately the rest of GT5 is garbage - the game just is no fun.

And Forza Horizon has the better overall picture from my point of view. But I hope we will get both Forza products on the next gen XBOX with a lot better graphics card.

 

[Speedster911]

Hey Mike!

Just wanted to drop in my two regarding FM4's graphics:

Now, I am somewhat sorry you're not able to get as much "visual pleasure" out of Forza, as most of us have, but at this point, I'm quite sure of it.. that it's your TV.

On an HDTV that's been tweaked properly, FM4 at 1080p is nothing but pure automotive ecstasy. I found it a little shocking how you found even the Auto Vista graphics less than satisfactory! I like to play at a distance of 10 feet at times (on the bed), or as close as 4 feet (on a chair), and believe me when sitting closer, it looks even better. Get a Microsoft or Sony HDMI cable mate, and select the highest resolution your TV has. Also, could you post the display settings you're currently using? What TV model you got BTW?

I would though, give GT5 a slight edge in the visuals department, since PD's lighting engine does have a lot to be desired. The cars, the 200 that have been properly done.. are quite eye-catching.

As far as photo-realism is concerned, both games have certain hit and miss areas, but GT5's premium cars tend to look more photo-realistic. How photo-realistic your cars look in FM4, is to quite an extent, how your TV is set up to get the most out of Forza, simple as that. If you look at Forza's history on the X360, you'll see how it has innovated in every single department since FM2. Unfortunately, with hardware that's nearing it's life cycle, there is only SO much you can do with programming code.

Overall, I'd still say FM4's track detail stands out, and look livelier than GT5. And you just gotta love the intricate details on the wheels/rims, the tail and headlights, the spoilers especially, or the interior when you get a peak at it during replays. The interiors during racing are not bad, but T10 does have it's work cut out as far as improving the cockpit experience is concerned. And let's not compare a "realistic driving game" like FM4 to Shift 2... it has nothing to offer besides tasty visuals.

But then again, at the end of the day, that's simply my personal opinion.. really. I've played both, I've seen both of them mature.. and while GT had a good run going, it simply could not top FM4.

^^ I'm afraid that is a fact! FM4 simply has *more to do*, be it online or offline.

 

[Scaff]

Get a Microsoft or Sony HDMI cable mate, and select the highest resolution your TV has. Also, could you post the display settings you're currently using? What TV model you got BTW?

Settings can and do make a difference......


.....HDMI cable used will not (it will either work or not - its not however going to give you a better image).

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Good to know.

What about the HDMI cable version? 1.3 and you're all set right?

 

[mikecustom]

This are my settings both in-game and TV, I may post some pictures but quality is going to drop a lot because I need to take them off-screen so you guys can see what I'm seeing.

So this is how it goes, now, I'm really not sure what model my TV is but if this helps, it's a 55'' LED 3D Samsung, it's like 3 years old when they were calling them ''smart series''

Actually, lol, I don't know the model but I've found a picture of it.

OK, in-game brightness is set to 45, I think thats the only option available. Xbox 360 settings go like this,

Maximum resolution (1080p) enabled
Reference levels - expanded
HDMI color space - RGB
and of course, TV size is set to 55

Like I said, my HDMI cable is about the same as the one that came with my PS3 six years ago, gold plated and everything, not the best out there, but it's not a dirt cheap cable for sure.

As for my TV settings.

Picture Mode - standard
Backlight - full, 20 being the brightest
Contrast - 70
Brightness - 60
Sharpness - full
Color - 60
Tint - 48 G, 52 R

Advanvced settings.

Black tone - off or the lightest one
Dynamic Contrast - off
Shadow detail - max
Gamma - max
Color space - Custom, which means, darker green and warmer yellow, the rest is standard
Edge enhancement - on

Other features for movie enhancement are off, like Motion lightning and LED motion plus which makes fast action scenes clearer.

Even more options.

Color Tone - standard
Digital Noise Filter - high
MPEG Noise Filter - high
HDMI black level - Low
Auto Motion PLus which makes the games seem like they are running at solid 60 fps or higher is set to ''Smooth''

That is pretty much it, I use the same settings for GT5 for the most part, the differences are contrast levels, brightness levels and a much more tweaked color space.

In case you are wondering, my TV upscales both games to 1920 x 1080, FM4 in 720 p on my TV looks really bad, GT5 in 720 p on my TV looks a little pixelated at draw distance, track textures look sharper and the game runs better but overall the quality isn't as good as 1080 p.


EDIT: Some pictures of how my game looks.

 

[HAL20XX]

Like I said, my HDMI cable is about the same as the one that came with my PS3 six years ago, gold plated and everything, not the best out there, but it's not a dirt cheap cable for sure.

This doesn't make any difference. Since it is a digital signal, a 1 is a 1, and 0 is a 0.

Sharpness - full

Turn this down to at least 50. If you've ever worked in Photoshop, you'll understand how this is only creating the illusion of a sharper image but ultimately deteriorating the picture quality. It will look blurry at first but your eyes will adjust within a few minutes.

Edge enhancement - on

Turn this off too. Features like this ultimately make the picture worse.

Digital Noise Filter - high

Off

 

[mikecustom]

This doesn't make any difference. Since it is a digital signal, a 1 is a 1, and 0 is a 0.


Turn this down to at least 50. If you've ever worked in Photoshop, you'll understand how this is only creating the illusion of a sharper image but ultimately deteriorating the picture quality. It will look blurry at first but your eyes will adjust within a few minutes.


Turn this off too. Features like this ultimately make the picture worse.


Off

So, turning those off would make this

go away? as you can see it's pretty noticeable here, this is what I get, especially at draw distance, it makes it hard to see upcoming corners in circuits like La Sarthe.

 

[Speedster911]

Wow...woowww...MIKE..buuddyyy!!!

You got wayyy too many enhancements on bro! NOW we know why you're not enjoying FM4 visually!

OK look, I'd highly recommend these settings, if you want the graphics to look smoother and more photo-realistic:

Read this: ALL visual enhancements and motion enhancements MUST be turned off for games. No edge enhancements, no noise reduction filters, none of that! These settings may somewhat improve image quality on CRT TVs but not HD LED or LCD screens.

Color tint and color space - why do you have this set to custom? Use the default setting.

Shadow detail and Gamma - turn all of this off. And try lowering the reference levels, if you want the tracks and cars to look less saturated and overexposed.

You also have the back light waaayyy too high. It should be kept between 20% and 40% of the max value, and room lighting dim or completely off.

Sharpness - no wonder you were complaining about jaggies! Ideally on an HDTV, since the signal your getting from an HDMI cable is already noise free and "unadulterated", adding artificial sharpness will degrade overall picture quality and add unnecessary pixel and motion noise/distortion. Keep it very low, perhaps at 10 or 15% of the max value, or completely zero.

The way you have your enhancements set up are the sole culprit!

Turn ALL of them off, turn down the back light and keep sharpness very low.

There ya go!

And there is one more thing: make sure you have 1:1 pixel mapping enabled. That is very important my friend!

 

[Speedster911]

What's the model spec on your TV by the way?

I.e: mine's a Bravia 40S400A. Your's has one too. I'm going to do some quick research on your model.

 

[mikecustom]

Wow...woowww...MIKE..buuddyyy!!!

You got wayyy too many enhancements on bro! NOW we know why you're not enjoying FM4 visually!

OK look, I'd highly recommend these settings, if you want the graphics to look smoother and more photo-realistic:

Read this: ALL visual enhancements and motion enhancements MUST be turned off for games. No edge enhancements, no noise reduction filters, none of that! These settings may somewhat improve image quality on CRT TVs but not HD LED or LCD screens.

Color tint and color space - why do you have this set to custom? Use the default setting.

Shadow detail and Gamma - turn all of this off. And try lowering the reference levels, if you want the tracks and cars to look less saturated and overexposed.

You also have the back light waaayyy too high. It should be kept between 20% and 40% of the max value, and room lighting dim or completely off.

Sharpness - no wonder you were complaining about jaggies! Ideally on an HDTV, since the signal your getting from an HDMI cable is already noise free and "unadulterated", adding artificial sharpness will degrade overall picture quality and add unnecessary pixel and motion noise/distortion. Keep it very low, perhaps at 10 or 15% of the max value, or completely zero.

The way you have your enhancements set up are the sole culprit!

Turn ALL of them off, turn down the back light and keep sharpness very low.

There ya go!

And there is one more thing: make sure you have 1:1 pixel mapping enabled. That is very important my friend!

From my personal experience with this TV, turning some of those features off made the games look choppy, too colorfull or too dark. I have custom colors because I hate how FM4 represents the ''giallo modena'' from Ferrari, I've turned all enhancements off and sharpness is half way down and the game is now looking like Forza 3, plastic world makes its return, I don't think I'm gonna get any better graphics, GT5 and basically all of my games look just fine with almost identical seetings to the ones I posted earlier, it's just Forza that looks too ''forza'' and I hate the forza look. I knew it was gonna be like this but I didn't expect it to have jaggies.

 

[Scaff]

Mike. This thread over at AVS may help (not sure if its your exact HDTV - but its close)......


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1205070/my-calibration-for-un55b7000-samsung-led-tv


....as your settings are rather extreme to say he least, in over 20 years as a AV nut I've never seen a display look close to good with those kinds of settings. The edge enhancement and sharpness settings are way to extreme and your colour balance looks way to saturated.

The following has a lot more info on display calibration.....

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/view...ghlight=&sid=a7bf031a772406872c1aaa96dfa0d025

 

[Speedster911]

I'd give Scaff's tips a shot if I were you.

You ought to tone down the color saturation and also sharpness.

It looks to me like your reference levels are also too deep. I can't even see the front scoops on the bumper of that Ferrari 458! And the cockpit looks way too dark.

I think you're probably used to seeing all your games slightly over saturated, bright and very sharp. This can actually... be a bad thing in Forza!

 

[mikecustom]

You guys also have to take in account that taking pictures off-screen increase brightness and contrast due to the TV's own screen light and affects the camera, also, the Rosso Corsa color is quite special, going any less color saturation makes it look weird, and my color saturation is 60, I don't have any dynamic color enhancements on, so this is how my TV looks before starting to look dead.

Here's a pic of Rosso Corsa and Rosso Scuderia, taken with the same camera as my TV screenshot's

Rosso Corsa

Rosso Scuderia

Here's a photo mode pic

Color isn't really my problem, jaggies and lack of textures are, I mean, if the game has poor textures nothing will make it look better, it's just how it is. I tried what Scaff posted, it didn't work and I have no intention of buying gear just to make this game look better. It has poor graphics, let's leave it like that, case closed.

 

[Speedster911]

NICE!

Were you there testing this baby out?

 

[Scaff]

Color isn't really my problem, jaggies and lack of textures are, I mean, if the game has poor textures nothing will make it look better, it's just how it is. I tried what Scaff posted, it didn't work and I have no intention of buying gear just to make this game look better. It has poor graphics, let's leave it like that, case closed.

Your edge enhancement and sharpness settings will be doing you no favors at all in terms of jaggies, maxing them both out will simply magnify them to a massive degree.

As for it being case closed on FM4 having poor graphics, well no, that simply your opinion and one that I suspect a good number of people (myself included) don't agree with.

You have after all claimed that FM4 looks last-gen everywhere...



....which I certainly don't agree with.

 

[mikecustom]

NICE!

Were you there testing this baby out?

Yes, there was a California there too, a FF and a Maserati Gran Turismo Stradale but the last 2 were not test-driveable, it was 300 dollars for half an hour in a racetrack and you know, buffet, music and everything.

Scaff, I said everywhere because of the lack of textures, it looks clean and nice but with no feel to it and I think that's the tracks fault, the cars have nice reflections and everything but the little details look lifeless, for example, wheels in motion remind me of Midnight Club 3 DUB Edition for the PS2, flat and consistent, different rim designs produce different lightning and shadow effects when in motion, in FM4 they all look the same and c'mon, no real wheel spin? Wheels spin until you hit 2500 rpm and then the game replaces them for a 2D picture with a ''motion'' efect, it's very noticeable, GT5 has this too but it's almost unoticeable especially since they react to the envirorment. Shift 2 did have real wheel motion, it means that the full 3D render of a rim actually spins and it looks so much better. If Shift 2 could do that, why can't these ''superior'' games do it.

The driver hands in FM4 grab the wheel horribly and they look out of place, not to mention that the interiors have some depth to them but the driver hands look like a 2D animated picture on top of a 3D interior. Then you have the car panels that you can see from inside the car such as hood, mirrors, etc. they have very basic reflections, I mean, the god damn dashboard reflects a lot more than the paint.

Of course we can all take fancy pictures with photo mode but I don't care for those graphics because I know I'm never gonna play them, this is the truth, FM4 nor GT5 use Photo Mode graphics in race mode, let alone Autovista which still looks worse than GT5's Photo Travel, the reason? Rendering a car in a white empty room with basic lightning is no where near as complex as rendering a car in a whole real life scenario. Polygon count doesn't mean a thing if you can't render proper reflections and textures.

T10 needs to see the cars outside of controlled enviroments much more often

Oh, and Matte colors in FM4 are serous trash, if they don't get full spectrum light, they get pitch black, If I go inside a tunnel in a white car, my car turns black, similar to PS2 era.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, I said everywhere because of the lack of textures, it looks clean and nice but with no feel to it and I think that's the tracks fault, the cars have nice reflections and everything but the little details look lifeless, for example, wheels in motion remind me of Midnight Club 3 DUB Edition for the PS2, flat and consistent, different rim designs produce different lightning and shadow effects when in motion, in FM4 they all look the same and c'mon, no real wheel spin?

As you say no real wheel spin, which is no different to GT5. As far as tracks go I actually feel that the vast majority of FM4's tracks look a lot more full of life than the majority of GT5's. I find GT5 looks flat and far too clean in comparison.

Wheels spin until you hit 2500 rpm and then the game replaces them for a 2D picture with a ''motion'' efect, it's very noticeable, GT5 has this too but it's almost unoticeable especially since they react to the envirorment. Shift 2 did have real wheel motion, it means that the full 3D render of a rim actually spins and it looks so much better. If Shift 2 could do that, why can't these ''superior'' games do it.

I would imagine for the same reasons they limit rear view mirrors to 30fps, its a compromise to hit a locked 60fps when driving (which neither S2U or GT5 do).

The driver hands in FM4 grab the wheel horribly and they look out of place, not to mention that the interiors have some depth to them but the driver hands look like a 2D animated picture on top of a 3D interior. Then you have the car panels that you can see from inside the car such as hood, mirrors, etc. they have very basic reflections, I mean, the god damn dashboard reflects a lot more than the paint.

I would agree that the drivers hands in FM4 look odd (but a lot better than in FM3) but I don't really see it as the game beaker that you do.

Of course we can all take fancy pictures with photo mode but I don't care for those graphics because I know I'm never gonna play them, this is the truth, FM4 nor GT5 use Photo Mode graphics in race mode, let alone Autovista which still looks worse than GT5's Photo Travel, the reason? Rendering a car in a white empty room with basic lightning is no where near as complex as rendering a car in a whole real life scenario. Polygon count doesn't mean a thing if you can't render proper reflections and textures.

You are aware that's not the only Autovista location?



And you think that looks last-gen?

T10 needs to see the cars outside of controlled enviroments much more often

Oh, and Matte colors in FM4 are serous trash, if they don't get full spectrum light, they get pitch black, If I go inside a tunnel in a white car, my car turns black, similar to PS2 era.

Not noticed that myself - will have to take a look on both.

 

[Wolfe]

Read this: ALL visual enhancements and motion enhancements MUST be turned off for games. No edge enhancements, no noise reduction filters, none of that! These settings may somewhat improve image quality on CRT TVs but not HD LED or LCD screens.

What CRT TVs offer that crap? That's one thing I hate about playing on friends/family's HDTVs -- all the stupid fiddly enhancements you have to disable, and then there's still display lag because it has to "process" the image somehow. Driving in Forza/Enthusia or even twitchy "arcade-style" racing games is just difficult; trying to play an NES/SNES classic that requires precise timing will make you pull your hair out.

A big fat CRT will always be my top choice, unless you guys can point me to an HDTV brand that's completely "hands-off" on the signal. And I mean completely.

...wheels in motion remind me of Midnight Club 3 DUB Edition for the PS2, flat and consistent, different rim designs produce different lightning and shadow effects when in motion, in FM4 they all look the same and c'mon, no real wheel spin?...Shift 2 did have real wheel motion, it means that the full 3D render of a rim actually spins and it looks so much better.

But wheel spokes are blurred in your real vision...if you just spin a 3D render the spokes appear to slow, stop, and reverse directions, like you're looking through a videocamera. That's similar to adding lens flare for "realism" (or bloom, although that at least conveys a contrast of lighting you can't effectively get from a display, when used appropriately).

I agree that the effect doesn't have to be so same-y for all wheels, but it's not really a big thing IMO.

You are aware that's not the only Autovista location?

[image]

That was always my go-to example when showing off the IBL when the game was new. It does a brilliant job hiding the fact it's a warped 2D panorama. I preferred the "alpine road" aesthetically, but the illusion fell apart so easily.

 

[HAL20XX]

A big fat CRT will always be my top choice, unless you guys can point me to an HDTV brand that's completely "hands-off" on the signal. And I mean completely.

My Samsung PN50B650 gets pretty close (CNET's mid-level top pick for 2009). The "video game" mode disables nearly all processing done by the TV. Any delay that remains is imperceptible to me.