Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

[sayba2th]

I think it's been said before but imagine (and before I do up goes the riot shield and I am well aware this will never happen but) what a game would be created if T10 and PD combined forces to deliver the ultimate console driving/racing sim, what could be achieved as the best of both worlds would shine so amazingly bright.

 

[buickgnx88]

With all the unleashed cloud power, I'm literally singing in the rain

Just not in Forza 5.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think it's been said before but imagine (and before I do up goes the riot shield and I am well aware this will never happen but) what a game would be created if T10 and PD combined forces to deliver the ultimate console driving/racing sim, what could be achieved as the best of both worlds would shine so amazingly bright.

I feel like people say this too often, I use to agree with it but then I stop and realized it probably be more of a train wreck than GT5 and the early FM games combined. They would never see eye to eye on how to make a game enough to make the masterpiece to the console sim world we think they could.

 

[sayba2th]

I feel like people say this too often, I use to agree with it but then I stop and realized it probably be more of a train wreck than GT5 and the early FM games combined. They would never see eye to eye on how to make a game enough to make the masterpiece to the console sim world we think they could.

In reality agreed but it's nice to ponder what it would be if they could

 

[jimipitbull]

I think it's been said before but imagine (and before I do up goes the riot shield and I am well aware this will never happen but) what a game would be created if T10 and PD combined forces to deliver the ultimate console driving/racing sim, what could be achieved as the best of both worlds would shine so amazingly bright.

A third party hosting tracks online, that both consoles could access.

 

[Imari]

I think it's been said before but imagine (and before I do up goes the riot shield and I am well aware this will never happen but) what a game would be created if T10 and PD combined forces to deliver the ultimate console driving/racing sim, what could be achieved as the best of both worlds would shine so amazingly bright.

I used to think so too, but these days I sort of wonder what PD would bring to the game. The lighting in FM5 looks as good as GT6 to me. Physics in FM4 was more correct than GT5. AI is arguably better, and a push at worst. FM4 single player is deeper, and at least comparable with GT4. Sounds in FM4 are more evocative, if not more accurate. Liveries and Storefront are FM only. We haven't seen how the online will play out in the newer games, although PD still seems to be learning.

PD has a lot of content, but the bulk of it is a generation old and wouldn't be accepted by a T10 that has seriously cut content for FM5 just to assure everything is of the highest quality. PD have weather and day/night, but T10 wouldn't have agreed to make the sacrifices to frame rate that those would require.

I agree with @LMSCorvetteGT2, it would probably be a train wreck.

If anything, I'd have PD coming up with ideas and T10 doing the structure of the game and choosing what will fit, what will be fun, and what is just a wacky idea and shouldn't have time wasted on it. PD are good at coming up with lots of odd stuff, and some of it is fun. They just need someone to help them focus, and someone to say "that's a cool idea but it's never going to work in a game for these reasons, come up with something else".

 

[Minty]

PD could design the in game camera and the replay angles, I guess. Those two things were really the only thing that kept me playing GT5 as long as I did, it was just a fun game to look at.

 

[azrael1965]

Right now I don't even consider Forza5 to be in the same weightclass as GT6 right now. Sure it's next gen and it's pretty but 200 cars and 14 tracks make it contentwise to a middleweight like Shift2 , while Forza4 and GT5 were heavyweight class. But well the franchise is rebuilding itself and I am sure that Forza6 will be bigger than 4.

 

[another_jakhole]

PD could design the in game camera and the replay angles, I guess. Those two things were really the only thing that kept me playing GT5 as long as I did, it was just a fun game to look at.

PD might be able to help T10 out with the physics for driving in/on rain, snow and gravel at the very least. The reason FM doesn't have those things is because of the trade-off, Dan said. He wanted the team to spend time on the livery editor instead and he said it was too difficult. On the other side, they can help PD with the livery editor and immersion/sense of speed and other gameplay/drving aspects that GT lacks.

 

[Minty]

Since the only thing rain, gravel, and snow seem to do in GT5 is reduce the level of grip by a certain percentage, I'd rather them not help with that. Unless of course it's modeled better in GT6.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yeah, going by the evidence that GT5 provides (and the GT6 GTA demo), PD couldn't help T10 with very much physics-related. Their tire model in particular would be a massive backwards step, and @Minty nailed it on what the general feeling is for weather's affect on grip in GT. GT6 might change this, but just as I'm sure it's moved the game on from GT5, I wouldn't doubt FM5 has improved on FM4's physics, which were already fantastic.

I like the idea of PD dealing with the replays; they do have a knack for them, even if nothing has matched GT3's again. Their Photomode is unmatched, I'll definitely give them that. I suppose they can provide an accurately-mapped starry nightscape, too...

It's an interesting idea, the thought of the two working together for One-(Console-)Sim-To-Rule-Them-All, but some of the philosophies on display by the two companies in their newest titles just seem too disparate to believe they could ever work together. While we like to think we'd get the best of both worlds, we'd probably end up with the opposite.

 

[Imari]

Since the only thing rain, gravel, and snow seem to do in GT5 is reduce the level of grip by a certain percentage, I'd rather them not help with that. Unless of course it's modeled better in GT6.

I think the Horizon gravel-feel wasn't too bad, so I'd say T10 already have a sister company they can probably nick that from if they wanted.

 

[sparkytooth]

I'm still taking GT6. I'm not paying over 500$ just to play Forza as the rest of the VCR doesn't interest me much, atleast for now. I'll just wait out the first couple of years of this Toaster vs VCR slap fight and see what happens but right now I'm not interested in either the PS4 or the Xbox One.

Meanwhile I'll pay 60$ for my GT6 copy. GT6 has improved greatly over it's fun, entertaining yet lacking predeccesor. The revamped lighting is especially interesting as I can see it's photographic potential (I'm a massive photomode/photo travel nut). Aside from that the new machines and the strong line up of new tracks to drive on with promises (Which I take with a grain of salt) of atleast one track every month might actually make me buy DLC for once if they're interesting enough. The game is also much smoother now with a simple and pretty looking UI and faster load times as well as much improved machine dynamics and tyre model. I also have various diabolical racing series plans for GT6 . And will continue to participate in the racing series' present here on GTP as they make the jump.

 

[Kake Bake]

I think that whichever game we defend as if attacks against it were directed towards ourselves this holiday season, we can all agree that we've collectively lost because we can't play with the power door locks and watch those dealies on the doors go up and down.

 

[Wolfe]

Since the only thing rain, gravel, and snow seem to do in GT5 is reduce the level of grip by a certain percentage, I'd rather them not help with that. Unless of course it's modeled better in GT6.

I think the Horizon gravel-feel wasn't too bad, so I'd say T10 already have a sister company they can probably nick that from if they wanted.

I would rather have simple grip-modified rain/gravel/snow than none at all. While it's admirable on one level for T10 to have a "do it right or don't do it at all" attitude, there's too much "don't do it at all" going on with the Forza series anymore.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I would rather have simple grip-modified rain/gravel/snow than none at all. While it's admirable on one level for T10 to have a "do it right or don't do it at all" attitude, there's too much "don't do it at all" going on with the Forza series anymore.

I don't understand this, so you rather them put in a half arsed feature?

 

[Wolfe]

Sometimes getting a feature into the game is better than putting it off indefinitely because it wouldn't be "perfect." It's not like FM4 was a perfect simulation of a dry paved racetrack on a sunny afternoon anyway. The mere aesthetic variety of day/night and weather effects are enough to enhance the gameplay experience for me, even if they're not executed with flawless realism.

T10's attitude on these features strikes me as more of a cop out than a commitment to quality.

 

[Imari]

Sometimes getting a feature into the game is better than putting it off indefinitely because it wouldn't be "perfect." It's not like FM4 was a perfect simulation of a dry paved racetrack on a sunny afternoon anyway. The mere aesthetic variety of day/night and weather effects are enough to enhance the gameplay experience for me, even if they're not executed with flawless realism.

T10's attitude on these features strikes me as more of a cop out than a commitment to quality.

PD's attitude to time and weather strikes me as more of a cop out than a commitment to getting them fully functional.

GT5:
3/27 tracks with time.
8/26 tracks with weather.

Often not all variations of the tracks have these features. Frankly, a pretty pathetic showing for a pair of features, simply so that they could put it on the box.

GT6:
17/39 tracks with time.
21/39 tracks with weather.

A great improvement. Give or take, they're on almost half the tracks now. You could say that they're half-arsing it and be fairly accurate. And it's not like these features don't still slaughter the frame rate.

Maybe next generation we'll get a game with a locked frame rate and consistent features across all tracks and cars.

 

[Wolfe]

I was only commenting on T10 and Forza in this case, @Imari, not contrasting with PD or GT...but I can understand interpreting my posts that way given the thread we're in. GT5's inconsistency is laughable but it didn't bother me as much as its cruddy physics. I will agree that an unsteady framerate is a no-no.

 

[Imari]

I was only commenting on T10 and Forza in this case, @Imari, not contrasting with PD or GT...but I can understand interpreting my posts that way given the thread we're in. GT5's inconsistency is laughable but it didn't bother me as much as its cruddy physics. I will agree that an unsteady framerate is a no-no.

Fair enough. I will agree that taken on it's own I'm slightly underwhelmed by what FM5 offers. I'm not sure that it's entirely a cop out, but I know what you mean.

I did have the thought the other day that for any given team of people, there has to be a maximum amount of features that they can support to a reasonable level. I think PD probably isn't aware of this and thus just jams everything and the kitchen sink in thinking it'll be fine. I suspect T10 is far too aware of this, and don't want to dig themselves a hole by overcommitting.

Both ways are sort of working in their own fashion, although I do think the way PD is going about it is slightly more dangerous if it all goes wrong. The worst T10 can be accused of is not having enough content, and in the context of most racing games it's not really that bad. There's a lot of industries that work on low volume/high quality, and there's some evidence from things like iRacing that it works for racing games too.

 

[Zer0]

Often not all variations of the tracks have these features. Frankly, a pretty pathetic showing for a pair of features, simply so that they could put it on the box.

So, like T10 and its selectable day light variations on a few tracks? how have evolved that in FM5? make a list please.

And I agree with the double standard said in the previous page. Only the most hardcore Forza fans can defend to have "nothing" rather than having a few but very important tracks with 24h day and weather cycles. Even if was only one very special track like Le Mans or Nurburgring in the whole game.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

make a list please.

By all means, you go first.

double standard

Those words coming from you: irony.

 

[Zer0]

By all means, you go first.

Slipz why are you trying to avoid the issue?

Those words coming from you: irony.

Then double irony I guess.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Slipz why are you trying to avoid the issue?

You mean like you have for literally years, whenever presented with actual facts (you know, the things you claim you prefer over opinions) that run counter to your baseless claims?

Either start backing up your claims with some sort of proof in threads, or don't bother taking part in the discussions.

 

[Zer0]

You mean like you have for literally years, whenever presented with actual facts (you know, the things you claim you prefer over opinions) that run counter to your baseless claims?

Either start backing up your claims with some sort of proof in threads, or don't bother taking part in the discussions.

Take all my claims as personal opinions (what they are) and problem solved. No more off-topic distractions.

Now on topic please, is not that the topic issue would never happen if I don't take part in the discussions. You are not confortable when a Forza weakness is discussed?

 

[BoneSawTX]

I don't understand this, so you rather them put in a half arsed feature?

most everything about GT5 was half arsed, so are you surprised?

 

[eSZee]

I hope FORZA never has night racing or weather.
To this day no one has explained to me or convinced me why having either of those is essential in a racing game. Especially one with no endurance racing.

most everything about GT5 was half arsed, so are you surprised?

I wish everything about GT5 was at least half arsed. Would be twice the game we got.

 

[Wolfe]

I hope FORZA never has night racing or weather.
To this day no one has explained to me or convinced me why having either of those is essential in a racing game. Especially one with no endurance racing.

What truly counts as "essential" in a racing game anyway? At least one car, somewhere to drive it, and an opponent to beat?

I don't think night racing and weather are "essential," but I will say that I very frequently take advantage of those options in any game they're offered. Fair weather and daylight get boring after a while.

 

[Kake Bake]

I don't like eSZee's favorite car.

I hope it's not in Forza 5 because there isn't an eSZee's favorite car mode.

 

[HAL20XX]

I hope FORZA never has night racing or weather.
To this day no one has explained to me or convinced me why having either of those is essential in a racing game. Especially one with no endurance racing.

In that same vain, having multiple tracks isn't essential either.