Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Touch a weak spot much?

Did I touch one with you since you had to make rebuttal that talks about a assumption on a personal scale? Grasping at straws? The point I've made is why keep bring this up or other things up that have been explained to the public for either game. It's about as annoying as people saying GT6 still doesn't have new car sounds...we all already know this

 

[Captain Roh]

Except when it comes to physics and how much it parallel's real world, that can be claimed and proven as better over one or the other, which was my point. All the other stuff doesn't matter, I guess tracks and car renderings could also be held to the same level as physics too. Anyways if evidence shows a game has better quality which is what I'm getting at then you can't deny it. However, if one provides more entertainment even if not of the best quality then yes it's quite subjective (e.g. what cars are in the game).

I understand your point but I am unsure why you are making it. I dont wish to be rude but you seem passive aggressive in your responses to me. Perhaps you misread or mistook what I was putting across in my post. The only point I was making you actually wrote in your most recent response.

'if one provides more entertainment even if not of the best quality then yes it's quite subjective'.

I was commenting on a post that seemed to favour one game, but praised the other for having better qualities (in his opinion) of which I personally find most important.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I understand your point but I am unsure why you are making it. I dont wish to be rude but you seem passive aggressive in your responses to me. Perhaps you misread or mistook what I was putting across in my post. The only point I was making you actually wrote in your most recent response.

'if one provides more entertainment even if not of the best quality then yes it's quite subjective'.

I was commenting on a post that seemed to favour one game, but praised the other for having better qualities (in his opinion) of which I personally find most important.

And I agreed, my point in response was you painted with a broad brush that one being better than the other is only subjective, but that isn't true. If you had said it's subjective to dictate one game being more fun than the other I wouldn't have ever responded because it makes sense. However, all I'm saying is since there are many facets to a game being better, there are concrete measurements that can prove better quality or realism is all. Obviously we agree, I'm not passive aggressive just because I challenge something I disagree with in a post, just blunt.

 

[Cosbuster]

So I was looking at this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721448

I'm interested to know, how do the people that own FM5 feel about it? I don't dislike micro-transaction in their own right (I just ignore them), but it's a different story when a game seems to be designed (or rather, re-designed) around them. From what I've seen from Forza's career so far, it looks really bad compared to 3/4.

We also know GT6 will feature them but do we expect it to stoop that low? I can't imagine GT6 without earning prize cars.

 

[PzR Slim]

So I was looking at this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721448

I'm interested to know, how do the people that own FM5 feel about it? I don't dislike micro-transaction in their own right (I just ignore them), but it's a different story when a game seems to be designed (or rather, re-designed) around them. From what I've seen from Forza's career so far, it looks really bad compared to 3/4.

We also know GT6 will feature them but do we expect it to stoop that low? I can't imagine GT6 without earning prize cars.

For those with zero patience and more money that sense the option is there. For those with a smidgeon of willpower it's a none issue. You are perfectly able to attain anything you want in game through the standard game mechanic.

 

[Cosbuster]

For those with zero patience and more money that sense the option is there. For those with a smidgeon of willpower it's a none issue. You are perfectly able to attain anything you want in game through the standard game mechanic.

I don't think the issue is being "forced" into paying real money. What annoys me is "sacrificing" popular aspects of the game to accomodate for the option (Or rather, encourage it).

 

[PzR Slim]

I don't think the issue is being "forced" into paying real money. What annoys me is ruining popular aspects of the game to accomodate the option (Or rather, "encourage" it).

I don't think they have done that.

 

[Cosbuster]

I don't think they have done that.

There is no way to really prove it, but after reading that post, it's really hard not to think about it. I mean, what other reason is there to remove car rewards and the ability to take any car you like for a spin? Do they have something against fun?

 

[PzR Slim]

There is no way to really prove it, but after reading that post, it's really hard not to think about it. I mean, what other reason is there to remove car rewards and the ability to take any car you like for a spin? Do they have something against fun?

Maybe the same reason you don't get every weapon dumped on you at the start in a shooter or every level in a platformer open to you at the beginning or why you can't call check mate after your first move in a game of chess. Play the game, get rewarded for being good at it. When I started gaming 30 odd years ago that's what is was all about. However, in this gaming entitled world we now live everyone wants everything without having to work for it. Play the game, be good at it, enjoy it, and all the rewards will come your way

If you haven't got the patience to play the game properly there is a mechanic to allow you to do that but don't expect to get it for free.

 

[Tornado]

"Properly" being the arbitrary definition that they changed considerably from the previous game, of course.

 

[PzR Slim]

"Properly" being the arbitrary definition that they changed considerably from the previous game, of course.

I didn't claim otherwise. My point still stands, play the game properly and you can come by everything you want. Want a short cut and the option is there but it'll cost you.

 

[Tornado]

"Blah blah gamer's entitlement" isn't really a point so much as a random tangent. It certainly doesn't hold any water as a rebuttal for why people shouldn't take issue with the removal of popular features that allowed you somewhat limited access to all of the previous game's content at any time or chalk it up to a money grab when combined with other aspects of the game; nor do a couple of comparisons to board games or platformers.

 

[UKMikey]

I just cancelled my XBone order. Monetization is bad, borking the single game career is bad but if this picture is correct then the graphics of the game have been significantly downgraded since E3. For nearly five hundred quid (for game and console) it's the final straw for me.

 

[Magic Ayrton]

Did I touch one with you since you had to make rebuttal that talks about a assumption on a personal scale? Grasping at straws? The point I've made is why keep bring this up or other things up that have been explained to the public for either game. It's about as annoying as people saying GT6 still doesn't have new car sounds...we all already know this

If you don't like it, don't read it, it really is that simple.

 

[I'm Motarded]

but if this picture is correct then the graphics of the game have been significantly downgraded since E3.

Why does what it looked like then and what it looks like now even matter? You're not buying the game from E3. The game still looks fantastic, just not as good as E3. Your other reasons I get. Just not this one.

 

[Tornado]

I've been wondering what happened there, actually. Bullshots and "in-game engine" videos being different from the final game (like ona few pages ago) I can understand, but the actual game itself being downgraded is odd. The changes Microsoft was making to the system hardware in the run up to the launch, maybe?

 

[UKMikey]

Why does what it looked like then and what it looks like now even matter? You're not buying the game from E3. The game still looks fantastic, just not as good as E3. Your other reasons I get. Just not this one.

I liked what I saw at E3. Not so much what I see in this picture. If it looks fantastic to you then put your money down.

I've been wondering what happened there, actually. Bullshots and "in-game engine" videos being different from the final game (like ona few pages ago) I can understand, but the actual game itself being downgraded is odd. The changes Microsoft was making to the system hardware in the run up to the launch, maybe?

Frame rate optimizations maybe. Perhaps the picture comment is right and the game was running on non Xbox One hardware.

I still have until December 13 to change my mind about cancelling as that's when the next console release is. Maybe I'll wait for impressions from people who actually play the game. I really like Forza and would hate to miss out on the fun.

 

[jimipitbull]

I've been wondering what happened there, actually. Bullshots and "in-game engine" videos being different from the final game (like ona few pages ago) I can understand, but the actual game itself being downgraded is odd. The changes Microsoft was making to the system hardware in the run up to the launch, maybe?

The dev kits running E3 were a lot more powerful than the retail xbone.

 

[Minty]

Didn't GT have a similar set up to car access in GT5? Restricting cars except for what you can buy and a few cars available in free mode. Its been nearly a year since I even touched the game, so I could be remembering wrong, but if that's the case it seems like a "Hey, they sold bucket loads more than us, so lets copy this design choice. I remember having to hold on to every dime I could until the S7 popped up in the UCD.

I can get it being annoying, and it does come off as intended incentive to buy car tokens, but personally I enjoy the restriction. I have more motivation to actually save since I can't just jump into free mode and drive what I want right away.

 

[PzR Slim]

I liked what I saw at E3. Not so much what I see in this picture. If it looks fantastic to you then put your money down.

Frame rate optimizations maybe. Perhaps the picture comment is right and the game was running on non Xbox One hardware.

I still have until December 13 to change my mind about cancelling as that's when the next console release is. Maybe I'll wait for impressions from people who actually play the game. I really like Forza and would hate to miss out on the fun.

It looks great, don't worry about want went before because it's still fantastic. The handling model is a step up from FM4 and the AI really is better than anything on console before. Pick any car on any track and against the AI you will have an involved race full of fun where getting a top spot becomes a huge achievement. And that is why the lack of cars and tracks have not bothered me one bit so far. I'm not worried about getting in a better more expensive car at the moment because every car is a challenge and heaps of fun to drive.

Didn't GT have a similar set up to car access in GT5? Restricting cars except for what you can buy and a few cars available in free mode. Its been nearly a year since I even touched the game, so I could be remembering wrong, but if that's the case it seems like a "Hey, they sold bucket loads more than us, so lets copy this design choice. I remember having to hold on to every dime I could until the S7 popped up in the UCD.

I can get it being annoying, and it does come off as intended incentive to buy car tokens, but personally I enjoy the restriction. I have more motivation to actually save since I can't just jump into free mode and drive what I want right away.

Bingo!

 

[mister dog]

I like this post, it gives Forza 'the win' based off of personal preference. Which is fine by the way. 'Whichever is best' is completely subjective. Consequently making threads like this pointless but hey ho.

I'm posting because of the first three points where 'Mister Dog' thinks GT excels. I had to laugh, as my own opinion is that if you are into this kind of racing game, those are the only three points you should concern yourself with. Right?

Everything else adds to the experience of course, but for me those three criteria represent the core of a racing game and why I would buy one.

I on the other hand had to laugh quite loudly when 'Captain Roh' states that the 3 first points i mentioned where GT excels are the only 3 points one should concern himself with.

Like zombie AI, hoover engine sounds and a lame poorly tought out career mode are of no relevance? (AKA the points where FM wins).

Hilarious frankly!

 

[UKMikey]

It looks great, don't worry about want went before because it's still fantastic. The handling model is a step up from FM4 and the AI really is better than anything on console before. Pick any car on any track and against the AI you will have an involved race full of fun where getting a top spot becomes a huge achievement. And that is why the lack of cars and tracks have not bothered me one bit so far. I'm not worried about getting in a better more expensive car at the moment because every car is a challenge and heaps of fun to drive.

Thanks for the first hand impressions Slim.

Do you personally feel in any way pressurized to spend money on transactions when playing the game. If not, I'll preorder the console again from amazon again.

There was a stage in GT5 where I just hit a brick wall because to win the next race I'd need a car which required an inordinate amount of grinding. I hope this won't turn out to be the case with Forza 5.

What will probably change my mind either way is what people who enjoyed FM4 as I did and who've bought the new game think of it, not the opinions of those who have no intention of purchasing it.

 

[Imari]

Trouble is, there aren't many tracks in FM$

Touch a weak spot much?

Was it sensible to roast GT5P for lack of content?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the slim pickings either. But it is what it is, and considering the gestation time of the game it could hardly be any better without including last gen assets. Which will not be included, for reasons the developer has explained. Maybe that's not the perfect decision for everyone, but it's a valid choice.

I don't see how you can expect more that 200 cars and 14 tracks to next gen quality in 2 years. PD certainly hasn't managed anything like that in the three years between GT5 and GT6, and technically they only have to do them to current gen standards (although premiums are supposedly "next gen quality").


There's legitimate concerns about the gameplay, the microtransactions and a bunch of other stuff about FM5. But to keep going on about the lack of content is just beating a dead horse. It is what it is and there was no conceivable way that it could have been any different given the stated and long standing principles of that particular developer.

 

[VXR]

You don't feel pressured at all. I have only used a few of the 1250 tokens in the VIP pack to get access to the Holden GTS as it's one of my favourite cars. There was no need to beyond my own desire.

How's this for an impression on how the game has improved on FM4 - FWD cars now lift-off oversteer as they should, so you can exploit cars like the Fiesta ST properly and you can trailbrake into corners to tuck the nose in on tighter corners. By that measure, the RWD cars are a real joyful challenge as weight transfer will really bite you if you're playing fast and loose with it.

The way it plays is just top drawer stuff.

 

[Cosbuster]

However, in this gaming entitled world we now live everyone wants everything without having to work for it.

I don't see what entitlement has to do with questioning why the developers removed features existing in their previous games. I'd like to think I'm being quite reasonable as I don't want everything handed to me in a silver plate, just some of the stuff that made me really enjoy their previous games.

 

[PzR Slim]

Thanks for the first hand impressions Slim.

Do you personally feel in any way pressurized to spend money on transactions when playing the game. If not, I'll preorder the console again from amazon again.

There was a stage in GT5 where I just hit a brick wall because to win the next race I'd need a car which required an inordinate amount of grinding. I hope this won't turn out to be the case with Forza 5.

What will probably change my mind either way is what people who enjoyed FM4 as I did and who've bought the new game think of it, not the opinions of those who have no intention of purchasing it.

I honestly haven't. It's nowhere near as in your face as some would have you believe. I got 1000 tokens with the limited edition and haven't even considered spending them yet. And grinding races when you get in a car, drive around the track with no challenge from the AI, I agree is boring as hell. But in FM5 the handling model is so involving and so fun, that alongside the vastly improved AI makes racing a pleasure not a chore. I'm not going to say it won't get boring because it might but right now I'm having a lot of fun. And I can't remember that last time I could really say that about the single player side of a racing game. Watching some of the tussles the AI have ahead of you is amazing.

I don't see what entitlement has to do with questioning why the developers removed features existing in their previous games. I'd like to think I'm being quite reasonable.

I haven't got a problem with people questioning it. But what we are seeing is not questioning it's total and utter discarding of the game as a failure due to a design direction. The devs chose a different game mechanic this time around. A mechanic that will not cost you a penny more if you don't want it to.

 

[HAL20XX]

Trouble is, there aren't many tracks in FM$

What does that have to do with how they look?

 

[Ranman20]

I rather have more content than less. But my detailed argument will come on release date.

 

[HAL20XX]

I rather have more content than less. But my detailed argument will come on release date.

I don't think many would disagree with you. Content for the sake of content and at the cost of quality is what most have issue with.

 

[I'm Motarded]

I liked what I saw at E3. Not so much what I see in this picture. If it looks fantastic to you then put your money down.

It will be mine. Eventually

Frame rate optimizations maybe. Perhaps the picture comment is right and the game was running on non Xbox One hardware.

The software running the console wasn't finalised back then. See the comments from the Dead Rising 3 developers those are recent comments. Not as recent as the Nov. 7 publishing of that article. But much more recent than E3. That would explain the optimisation we see, the targets are always moving upto the point of final release. Dev kits running on non-final software could well show the results we saw at E3 I think. And I think FM6 and beyond could well look identical to the E3 footage and more. I think they just couldn't get it stable enough for a final release so early. We see the same thing with drive club, except Sony was gracious enough to give Evolution some space.

I don't think it's possible that a launch game is the final swan song in terms of graphical fidelity for the whole of the generation.