Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

[ScottPuss20]

I

I would recommend you play the game first (preferably with a wheel) before summing it up based on videos.


I fail to understand how that last part about terrible FM3 and onward replays add to the discussion.

I've played Forza 2, 3 and 4 and this is honestly what all the games have in common. I drove a tuned RX-7 on racing tyres and it was all over the shot! It was undriveable. My RX-7 in GT6 on racing tyres performs without any unintentional sliding. So there

You may want to clarify what you mean by "slide". Because in the generic sense of the word, they very much do.

Brake harder than the tyres can handle, tyres lock, car slides. Exceed the combined lateral and longitudinal grip of a tyre, car slides. Hell, just braking hard on an uneven surface will cause the car to move around quite a bit. Not to mention the well-known technique of trail braking all the way into the apex of a corner to keep the weight off the rear of the car and help it rotate tighter, by sliding.

If you're not sliding the car at least a little bit, you could be going faster.

Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

 

[HAL20XX]

Ha, and I wouldn't use GT's race tires as anything relating to real world tires.

Fast forward to 18 seconds. I see a whole lot of correction when he locks his tires up.

 

[Scaff]

Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

I've driven road and race cars on track and carried out high speed braking tests at proving grounds over the years, and it is more than possible to get a car moving about under high braking loads. It doesn't matter if you have a high potential level of grip, under braking you will almost certainly exceed it (unless your brakes are not up to the job). When they do it will not be by an equal level at each corner and the end result will be a grip imbalance across the four points of contact with the rather obvious results.

Oh and please watch both the double posting and attitude.

 

[ScottPuss20]

If a car locks up, then yes it will slide about, but not with ABS

 

[Imari]

Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

Are you seriously trying to claim that you can't get real life cars to slide under braking?

I can get my MX5 to lock wheels, no problem. I can get the back to step out on the way into a corner under braking, although mostly accidentally because I'm not a race driver (it was on a track day before someone asks).

If the grip level is high, then the lack of sliding means simply that you're not braking hard enough. Pretty much every car from the last twenty years has more than enough braking power to lock the wheels. That's a slide. When you don't let it get out of control and instead keep it so that the wheels are rotating slower than the road is passing under them, they're sliding and you can manipulate that into faster lines through the corner. Again, pretty much every car from the last twenty years can do this. Bumps in the road can make cars pretty twitchy when you attempt it though.


I still want to know exactly what you mean by sliding. Locking wheels? Getting sideways? Neither of these? Something else?

If I know exactly what you're referring to, I can find examples and explain exactly what's going on with the car dynamics to lead to those situations. As long as you simply refer to "sliding", it's so vague that it's very hard to respond meaningfully.

My RX-7 in GT6 on racing tyres performs without any unintentional sliding.

Racing softs in GT have far more grip than is possible from any real world tyre. They are unrealistic.

One would expect a car to be difficult to get loose with that amount of grip, but it does not mean that it is a realistic driving experience.

Try driving a stock RX7 in GT with some comfort tyres, those have grip levels more in line with the tyres that the car would be equipped with in the real world. Compare that to the feeling that you get when driving cars in Forza, and I think you'll find that they're not all that different.

Make sure you have ABS off in both games and relatively sensible brake balances dialed in. Both games seem to think 50:50 brake balances are a good default, whereas it's really only even close for the most rear-heavy of cars. I usually start with 60-65% front balance and fiddle from there. 62% is usually fine if you just want to get in and drive.

 

[Scaff]

If a car locks up, then yes it will slide about, but not with ABS

Odd because on a spirited drive into work this very morning my Alfa did just that.

ABS (in the real world) does not stop a car yawing (moving) under braking, in fact its very purpose is to allow that (so that you can brake and still steer around accidents), what you mean is EBD (Electronic Brake Force Distribution) and even that works to balance and minimize differences, it can't remove them entirely. So unless you have a perfectly level surface, totally equal lateral load distribution and the car is in a perfectly straight line when braking you are going to have differing grip levels at each tyre, and as a result you are going to get yawing (movement) under braking and the higher the speed the move pronounced its going to feel (unless you throw downforce into the mix, in which case you get none at first and then you get a bucket load when the downforce lifts).

But I've only spent the last couple of decades working in training in the motor industry, what would I know.

 

[ImaRobot]

I

I've played Forza 2, 3 and 4 and this is honestly what all the games have in common. I drove a tuned RX-7 on racing tyres and it was all over the shot! It was undriveable. My RX-7 in GT6 on racing tyres performs without any unintentional sliding. So there

Really? I had a tuned RX-7 in Fm4, that didnt even have racing tires, and it still handled damn well. It was one of my go to cars for B and A class. You must doing something wrong, either in your tuning department, or your inputs arent as fluid as they should be. Either that, or you just putting way to much power on your cars without enough supporting mods.

EDIT: and by tuned do you mean modified, or do you actually mean you spent the man hours to dial in some good settings for your car?

Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

Your experience comes from watching videos? Got it.

 

[Speedster911]

I

I've played Forza 2, 3 and 4 and this is honestly what all the games have in common. I drove a tuned RX-7 on racing tyres and it was all over the shot! It was undriveable. My RX-7 in GT6 on racing tyres performs without any unintentional sliding. So there


Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

Clownder, it seems to me your deadzones and max ranges are either not set up correctly, or you flick the stick while playing with your controller. Forza requires a lot of finesse, precision and intricate corrections with a controller. It's even more unforgiving on a wheel. Aside from your Forza/GT experience have you pushed a high powered AWD or RWD car IRL?

Forza captures the feeling very VERY well, and I'm afraid this is where GT takes a backseat. The race tyres in GT are far too grippy with no consequences. IRL, if you get any funny ideas with a GT or prototype car (or even a highly tuned and modded car with slicks, it will bite back and throw you off like you can't imagine!

Anyhow, I won't get into a debate over this. I'd suggest you rent a high powered car, test it out on a track, and do the same in GT, to compare.

 

[SlyNine]

If a car locks up, then yes it will slide about, but not with ABS

In my car, or even the Simi I drive, if I hit the breaks hard the vehicle tends to wander. Forza gets it fairly close to what I experience in real life. To a lesser extent even my bikes (sport bike and a cruiser) tend to do that.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

I've played Forza 2, 3 and 4

I've been competing in motorsport almost as long as I've been able to walk.

Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

Boy, I wish that applied to me when my Porsche 911 GT3 Touring Car slid under braking and went off the track at Sears Point. That cost me my podium finish and my chances of wining the season.

I'm trying to avoid sounding like a scientist with this, but the answers are all in physics. Formula 1 cars have extremely grippy tires, especially their Optional and Prime tires. Even with that, and their high level of downforce, the slightest touch of the throttle can disturb the tires and send the car off towards the tire wall. Deceleration is no exception. I don't understand why people treat deceleration any different from acceleration. It takes an equal or greater force to stop a vehicle at speed. Mind you, my Porsche has ABS, which according to you would eliminates the sliding.

The rubber used on the Go-Karts I competed in were as slick as it gets, and yet that darn thing would slide like crazy under braking, mainly due to the lack of a suspension system to absorb the inertia.
If you are basing your theories of vehicle handling and physics off of a video game, and not even considering the points made by users like me who have real world experience, then I am sorry. You are lost.

 

[JAHHAJ]

In my opinion GT6 has a lot better DLC than Forza 5, most of Forza 5's DLC is cars that were in previous generations that you have to pay for, this is one of those uncommon times where Turn 10 puts out free content, in GT6 we get free content which can be really good when PD decides they want to make good content and put it out. Turn 10 can also produce good free DLC as well if you look at their new cars but personally I feel that PD are overall better with DLC when they put their minds to it.

 

[CinnamonOD]

Dude but they got Formula E and Rolls Royce! I'm so jealous right now

 

[HAL20XX]

In my opinion GT6 has a lot better DLC than Forza 5, most of Forza 5's DLC is cars that were in previous generations that you have to pay for, this is one of those uncommon times where Turn 10 puts out free content, in GT6 we get free content which can be really good when PD decides they want to make good content and put it out. Turn 10 can also produce good free DLC as well if you look at their new cars but personally I feel that PD are overall better with DLC when they put their minds to it.

I haven't touched GT6 since about February. What DLC have they added?

 

[Igano]

I haven't touched GT6 since about February. What DLC have they added?

Mostly fantasy cars (which for me means absolutely nothing).

 

[VXR]

What DLC GT has received has been pretty good, the Vision GT cars are a neat idea. The racing Toyota and Lexus aren't my cup of tea, though.

 

[JAHHAJ]

I haven't touched GT6 since about February. What DLC have they added?

For me personally, I think the racing Toyota and Lexus are great plus the Senna cars were pretty good, that's probably the only good DLC but I personally think that's better than Forza where most of the paid DLC is cars from a previous Forza that should've been in the game anyway.

 

[BoneSawTX]

For me personally, I think the racing Toyota and Lexus are great plus the Senna cars were pretty good, that's probably the only good DLC but I personally think that's better than Forza where most of the paid DLC is cars from a previous Forza that should've been in the game anyway.

Those plus the Vision cars Vs 1967 Brabham BT24, 1967 Lotus Type 49, 1952 Ferrari 375, 1939 Maserati 8CTF, 1961 Maserati Tipo 61 Birdcage, 2013 Lamborghini Veneno, 2013 LaFerrari... yea okay

 

[JAHHAJ]

Those plus the Vision cars Vs 1967 Brabham BT24, 1967 Lotus Type 49, 1952 Ferrari 375, 1939 Maserati 8CTF, 1961 Maserati Tipo 61 Birdcage, 2013 Lamborghini Veneno, 2013 LaFerrari... yea okay

While I see the point your trying to make, most of FM5 DLC is paid whereas, GT6 DLC is free and from what I see and hear from Forza players, most of the car packs are cars from previous generations that should've been in from the start, which means your paying for previous content that you've played in a previous game and in some cases you're paying for DLC which you paid for in the previous game and to me in that respect GT6 has better DLC than Forza in my opinion.

 

[Speedster911]

I

I've played Forza 2, 3 and 4 and this is honestly what all the games have in common. I drove a tuned RX-7 on racing tyres and it was all over the shot! It was undriveable. My RX-7 in GT6 on racing tyres performs without any unintentional sliding. So there


Watch some real world videos will you? Cars do not slide under brakes while the grip level is high.

Friend, some facts for you:

* GT's tire model is linear. It's simplistic and there is practically no level of progression when it comes to losing grip and getting back on that grip. Maybe they've deliberately kept it like that.

* GT's slick tires have some outer space alien-tech super glue build inside of it, as the moment you install them, cars that generally have a tendency to slide, will instantly stop sliding. This is plain ridiculous and almost never happens IRL I assure you. It's your finnesse, skill and experience that keeps the car from sliding too much, but a little bit of sliding is inevitable, whether you're braking hard or accelerating out of corners. It largely depends on the track surface as well.

* Instead of comparing Forza to GT or videos, take a high-powered to a track, you might be able to rent slicks or rent a car with slicks.. perhaps ask a friend with a high powered RWD car to put on slicks.. then do some testing on an actual track.

* I don't have any track or motor sport experience, but believe me when I tell you: ALL power train cars slide under heavy braking when you push them over the edge hard enough - this includes heavy last-minute braking especially when you're just about to enter a turn and trying your level best to hit the apex.

* Forza captures this well. Wish I could say the same for GT. I've enjoyed both at length, and for me personally, Forza comes much closer to real-life driving. So I stick with it.

Ha, and I wouldn't use GT's race tires as anything relating to real world tires.

Fast forward to 18 seconds. I see a whole lot of correction when he locks his tires up.

👍

Odd because on a spirited drive into work this very morning my Alfa did just that.

ABS (in the real world) does not stop a car yawing (moving) under braking, in fact its very purpose is to allow that (so that you can brake and still steer around accidents), what you mean is EBD (Electronic Brake Force Distribution) and even that works to balance and minimize differences, it can't remove them entirely. So unless you have a perfectly level surface, totally equal lateral load distribution and the car is in a perfectly straight line when braking you are going to have differing grip levels at each tyre, and as a result you are going to get yawing (movement) under braking and the higher the speed the move pronounced its going to feel (unless you throw downforce into the mix, in which case you get none at first and then you get a bucket load when the downforce lifts).

But I've only spent the last couple of decades working in training in the motor industry, what would I know.

Scaff! You're back! We don't get to read your well-informed highly detailed posts much anymore. Keep em' coming. Hope you're good man!

 

[BoneSawTX]

While I see the point your trying to make, most of FM5 DLC is paid whereas, GT6 DLC is free and from what I see and hear from Forza players, most of the car packs are cars from previous generations that should've been in from the start, which means your paying for previous content that you've played in a previous game and in some cases you're paying for DLC which you paid for in the previous game and to me in that respect GT6 has better DLC than Forza in my opinion.

You say it should be free but someone put time into it to rebuild it and their time is far from free. Besides that stupid point, the cars i listed are well worth it and just a few new to FM. I've experienced enough GT to know I'm done with it.

If a car locks up, then yes it will slide about, but not with ABS

Thats crazy because this morning i did just that in the car in my avatar. Btw 275/45-17 nitto 555 in front and 315/35-17 555R in back, tires are pretty soft.

 

[HAL20XX]

Scaff! You're back! We don't get to read your well-informed highly detailed posts much anymore. Keep em' coming. Hope you're good man!

Agreed! We all need to chip in and get Scaff an Xbox One and FM5 just so we can see his posts.

 

[Speedster911]

You say it should be free but someone put time into it to rebuild it and their time is far from free. Besides that stupid point, the cars i listed are well worth it and just a few new to FM. I've experienced enough GT to know I'm done with it.



Thats crazy because this morning i did just that in the car in my avatar. Btw 275/45-17 nitto 555 in front and 315/35-17 555R in back, tires are pretty soft.

Nice tires. How many ponies you packin?

 

[Igano]

Agreed! We all need to chip in and get Scaff an Xbox One and FM5 just so we can see his posts.

Can you add me too in the chip in?

 

[BoneSawTX]

Nice tires. How many ponies you packin?

Only 335 rwhp/367 lbtrq (399hp/420 lbtrq at the crank), 4 speed auto. Long story short, suspension sub frames are done, wheels got on the car and then got laid off. So all engine internals, big stall and garrett T72 are sitting in my garage.

 

[JAHHAJ]

You say it should be free but someone put time into it to rebuild it and their time is far from free. Besides that stupid point, the cars i listed are well worth it and just a few new to FM. I've experienced enough GT to know I'm done with it.

While I agree that you should pay for these remade cars, I personally think that having 8/10 cars in one car pack being remade cars for example, is a bit much, I think that 5/10 cars in a pack should be remade cars and the other 5 should be new to the series. I'm not trying to change your opinion on GT, just stating my opinion about GT DLC vs Forza DLC. The one thing I will say about Forza DLC that is a lot better than GT DLC in my opinion is that you're guaranteed 10 cars every month, if PD could do 10 cars every other month I'd be happy let alone if they could do it every month.

 

[McLaren]

While I see the point your trying to make, most of FM5 DLC is paid whereas, GT6 DLC is free and from what I see and hear from Forza players, most of the car packs are cars from previous generations that should've been in from the start, which means your paying for previous content that you've played in a previous game and in some cases you're paying for DLC which you paid for in the previous game and to me in that respect GT6 has better DLC than Forza in my opinion.

So, rather than judge by content, you're pretty much saying GT6's DLC is only better because it's free & because it's "new content". What exactly is new outside the M4, Hudson, FT-1 Concept, TS030, & 3 Senna vehicles? The GT3-Nismo was just another 1 of the many GT-R variants. The 2 Red Bull variants? Yeah, there's no shocker that's free. The Vision GT cars are different, but one could easily see a couple of them has fantasy variants as well, so what exactly is new?

 

[Speedster911]

Only 335 rwhp/367 lbtrq (399hp/420 lbtrq at the crank), 4 speed auto. Long story short, suspension sub frames are done, wheels got on the car and then got laid off. So all engine internals, big stall and garrett T72 are sitting in my garage.

Tough luck man. Hope you get to boost it at some point.

Happy motoring!

 

[ScottPuss20]

A believe the tyre physics have improved in GT since Spec 1.01. I was driving my Mercedes 190E 2.5 Evo 2 on racing tyres and when I floored it out of the corners, it actually slid!!

 

[JAHHAJ]

So, rather than judge by content, you're pretty much saying GT6's DLC is only better because it's free & because it's "new content". What exactly is new outside the M4, Hudson, FT-1 Concept, TS030, & 3 Senna vehicles? The GT3-Nismo was just another 1 of the many GT-R variants. The 2 Red Bull variants? Yeah, there's no shocker that's free. The Vision GT cars are different, but one could easily see a couple of them has fantasy variants as well, so what exactly is new?

I guess if you look at it that way the DLC in Forza is better especially when they got another free car pack with new cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I guess if you look at it that way the DLC in Forza is better especially when they got another free car pack with new cars.

...okay, and a 1.6L Astra, but there's no images available for that

Not counting the imaginary VisionGT cars, this alone pretty much matches the count of GT6's free DLC cars, and there's been other freebies for FM5 too. Plus, look at the variety; Roll's debut in racing games, a Formula E car, arguably one of the most visible "everyday" cars in media today ("everyday cars" being a staple of GT), two new Infinitis, and one of the most in-demand new sports cars of 2014.

Of course, since they mentioned the Satellite Aided Transmission in the Wraith, I'm very curious if it actually works in-game...