Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment, Will DLC Save It?

[Zer0]

Not worth discussing in this forum. I have been called with an evident flaming intentions, I have explained my point again, just in case, and I have given some hints to start if anyone wanted to learn more about what is a public domain topic that could affect the FM6 development. And that's all.

If with all what is happening out there someone prefers to think that there will be no problem with the XBone to run a 1080/60 Forza 6, with full real time effects and that T10 are capable of redoing the whole game for that task in just two years, with no previous experience in weather and real-time effects, and with no graphical problems, cool. Time will tell.

 

[Speedster911]

Okay Zero, here's the deal:

I know you're quite passionate about GT, as was I at some point. Let's put aside personal preferences, customer loyalty and sales for a minute.... FM has innovated with every single release, amid disappointments and some letdowns. GT hasn't. I'm sorry, I wish things had gone differently with PD.. though I don't know what happened exactly. Whether it was staff walking out on PD or being let go, or if it was Kaz resting on his laurels for too long.

FM5 now brings to the table better engine sounds, graphics and physics. They even have a "casual racing" version to appeal to wider audiences - Horizon.

What has GT done by comparison? Release updates and more cars/tracks to side step around pressing concerns?

Forza is clearly taking major strides so as to what consoles can give gamers in terms of a realistic virtual driving experience. NOW.. what remains to be seen is who will the first one to be hailed as a "game changer"... FM6 or GT7.

Let's wait it out, shall we?

Happy motoring ye fellow petrol head!

 

[imported_skidmark]

Not worth discussing in this forum. I have been called with an evident flaming intentions, I have explained my point again, just in case, and I have given some hints to start if anyone wanted to learn more about what is a public domain topic that could affect the FM6 development. And that's all.

If with all what is happening out there someone prefers to think that there will be no problem with the XBone to run a 1080/60 Forza 6, with full real time effects and that T10 are capable of redoing the whole game for that task in just two years, with no previous experience in weather and real-time effects, and with no graphical problems, cool. Time will tell.

Forza 6 doesn't NEED a day/night cycle nor does it need weather. Don't get me wrong it'd be nice to have but its not a MUST for the series. Forza 6 just has to give more content for me to be happy with it.. More cars/tracks,cause from where I'm sitting forza 5 is the best there is right now on console.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Zer0

I didn't know Zer0 was that influential that without posting in this thread before, you thought of his username to single out. It is interesting though his response to your reply is him giving excuses for T10 on why they might not be able to achieve certain stuff at 1080p 60FPS. Maybe he should say Turn 10 have no excuses compared to what they deliver on their platform compared to rival platform games given both consoles cost the same to buy and they had their chief architect influence the Xbox One Architecture from the start.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Forza 6 doesn't NEED a day/night cycle nor does it need weather. Don't get me wrong it'd be nice to have but its not a MUST for the series. Forza 6 just has to give more content for me to be happy with it.. More cars/tracks,cause from where I'm sitting forza 5 is the best there is right now on console.

Agreed. Turn 10 knows how to make their own idea of fun to the point day/night cycle and weather aren't needed, nor should they be THAT concern for it. GAS doesn't have day/night cycle and weather either, yet it's still fun.

I rather T10 not eat everything in one go but focus on finishing one dish before moving on to another, unlike PD who can't even finish one dish to the point their picking each piece of food off their plate and leaving them as left overs to finish later but soon to rot. Also T10 doesn't have to follow everything PD is doing because they already surpassed them since FM3.

 

[UKMikey]

Maybe he should say Turn 10 have no excuses compared to what they deliver on their platform compared to rival platform games given both consoles cost the same to buy and they had their chief architect influence the Xbox One Architecture from the start.

Which rival platform games are you comparing Forza to in this instance?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Which rival platform games are you comparing Forza to in this instance?

PS4

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Forza 6 doesn't NEED a day/night cycle nor does it need weather. .

This for me is more important than added content.
I would say it does need it

 

[Imari]

I didn't know Zer0 was that influential that without posting in this thread before, you thought of his username to single out. It is interesting though his response to your reply is him giving excuses for T10 on why they might not be able to achieve certain stuff at 1080p 60FPS. Maybe he should say Turn 10 have no excuses compared to what they deliver on their platform compared to rival platform games given both consoles cost the same to buy and they had their chief architect influence the Xbox One Architecture from the start.

Certainly.

And at the moment, no rivals have time and weather at 1080/60. There are games on the current and previous generation with one or the other or both at sub-60 frame rates, and it's expected that pCARS will have both at 1080/60 on all platforms. But they'll be the first, no one else has done it on console yet to my knowledge.

Until someone does achieve that, T10 hardly need excuses. They've made a commitment to deliver 1080/60 and refuse to compromise on that. Until someone proves that weather and time are compatible with the sort of graphical quality that can be delivered on consoles and still maintain that resolution and framerate, I don't think they need any sort of excuses at all.

PS4

Which rival platform games are you comparing Forza to in this instance?

 

[UKMikey]

^Perhaps the PS4 platform game he's talking about is Knack? Because comparing to an iteration of GT which hasn't even been announced is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

And at the moment, no rivals have time and weather at 1080/60. There are games on the current and previous generation with one or the other or both at sub-60 frame rates, and it's expected that pCARS will have both at 1080/60 on all platforms. But they'll be the first, no one else has done it on console yet to my knowledge.

I wouldn't be surprised if Slightly Mad have to drop resolution to achieve night and weather at 60 frames per second on Xbox One. I'd rather they did that than drop frames like those other games did.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Certainly.

And at the moment, no rivals have time and weather at 1080/60. There are games on the current and previous generation with one or the other or both at sub-60 frame rates, and it's expected that pCARS will have both at 1080/60 on all platforms. But they'll be the first, no one else has done it on console yet to my knowledge.

Until someone does achieve that, T10 hardly need excuses. They've made a commitment to deliver 1080/60 and refuse to compromise on that. Until someone proves that weather and time are compatible with the sort of graphical quality that can be delivered on consoles and still maintain that resolution and framerate, I don't think they need any sort of excuses at all.

This recent discussion is about Forza 6 which is also not out yet, by then I'm sure there will be comparisons of graphical effects achieved and features in racing games at that time as well as performance.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Forza 6 doesn't NEED a day/night cycle nor does it need weather. Don't get me wrong it'd be nice to have but its not a MUST for the series. Forza 6 just has to give more content for me to be happy with it.. More cars/tracks,cause from where I'm sitting forza 5 is the best there is right now on console.

That sounds about as lackluster and withdrawn as a certain other game that happens to have a large following also that says the same thing when innovations are asked for and felt to be needed. At least the two groups have common ground, and I for one actually side with FM now days more than the other game based on effort made (as can be found in this thread). However, the "we don't need your damn day/night and weather" when other games in the Arcade and Simcade as well as the obvious sim categories do it...you've then obviously slotted yourself in the position of this thing can do no harm. So what makes that any different than the over zealous GT fans that do it?

EDIT: Also the more content bit sounds like something PD would say or a former GT fan would say and just carry over to this game because of other let downs due to the former.

 

[ImaRobot]

@Zer0 I find it a bit ironic that you obsess over the fact that T10 MIGHT not be able to get weather at its intended 1080/60fps yet you haven't as much as raised an eyebrow at GT for having weather and not being able to achieve 1080p/60fps. In this case, what does it matter, if they have no experience? worst case is, is that it'll turn out like Gran Turismo. If you seem ok with them doing it, than you should be fine in this case.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Certainly.

And at the moment, no rivals have time and weather at 1080/60. .

Forza 5 doesn't have any current gen rivals at all, it's the only current gen racer, that doesn't mean they can just not add weather. I honestly feel this obsession for 60 fps is getting mad now, it's stopping developers adding tons of detail just for a smoother look which quite a few people don't even notice because they can't notice any difference above 30 fps.

If a game was reduced to 30 fps to add features like weather than I would be okay with it

 

[UKMikey]

Forza 5 doesn't have any current gen rivals at all, it's the only current gen racer, that doesn't mean they can just not add weather. I honestly feel this obsession for 60 fps is getting stupid now, it's stopping developers adding tons of detail just for a smoother look which quite a few people don't even notice because they can't notice any difference after 30 fps.

It sounds like you should be playing Horizon instead.

Forza 6 is scheduled to release at the end of next year. Either they suddenly pull some heretofore unseen performance out of the box between now and then, or they delay the game or decide 60fps isn't worth it. I can't see any of these three things happening judging by their previous releases.

It'll be interesting seeing what compromises SMS have to make on Xbox One or whether their game will be delayed on that platform.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Forza 5 doesn't have any current gen rivals at all, it's the only current gen racer, that doesn't mean they can just not add weather. I honestly feel this obsession for 60 fps is getting mad now, it's stopping developers adding tons of detail just for a smoother look which quite a few people don't even notice because they can't notice any difference above 30 fps.

If a game was reduced to 30 fps to add features like weather than I would be okay with it

They already making compromises to smoothness with 30Hz mirrors and reflections when game under heavy load.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

It sounds like you should be playing Horizon instead.

Why? Because lower frame rates don't bother me? That's sillier than the steering wheel argument.

Forza 6 is scheduled to release at the end of next year. Either they suddenly pull some heretofore unseen performance out of the box between now and then, or they delay the game or decide 60fps isn't worth it. I can't see any of these three things happening judging by their previous releases.

Well they have to do one of them

It'll be interesting seeing what compromises SMS have to make on Xbox One or whether their game will be delayed on that platform.

I can't imagine the Xbox one having problems the ps4 doesn't as they are quite evenly matched consoles

@Saidur_Ali exactly the reason why people shouldn't put in one feature (60 fps) that ruins a million others

 

[Stylel_Code]

I'm following this XBOne vs PS4 discussion right now with pop corns

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I see no xbox one vs ps4 rivalry here

@TokoTurismo forza is ready for weather as the rest of the game is lovely, so don't tell them to hold back!

 

[Tornado]

Not worth discussing in this forum.

For you, no. When you already said exactly that in the past I would have thought you would have gotten the hint by now that people in this forum are far less likely to put up with someone who once, say, posted a falsified interview and then blamed everyone else in the thread because the fact it was fake "distracted" everyone from the point you were trying to prove with it.


Probably colored your image quite a bit with the ones in this forum who hadn't had the pleasure of discourse with you before.

I have been called with an evident flaming intentions,

That's because panes of glass are less transparent than your reasoning for posting in the Forza 5 forum; the same as when you posted in the Forza 4 forum before that.

I have explained my point again, just in case, and I have given some hints to start if anyone wanted to learn more about what is a public domain topic that could affect the FM6 development.

No, what you did was object to being called out on a specific topic that you repeatedly assert is akin common sense, then did a fantastic job proving that it was right to call you out in the first place when you proceeded to "prove" the original assertion with 3 links that do nothing to directly support what you keep saying. And, again, one of those links was nothing more a Google search that nonetheless manged to contain sources from game developers that don't support your point.


What you're doing is a bit like telling someone in Miami that Polaris is the North Star, then giving them a star chart and telling them to make their way to Denver.

I didn't know Zer0 was that influential that without posting in this thread before, you thought of his username to single out.

My advice to you, aside from the obvious, is that perhaps you should think about why I specifically named Zer0 regarding the sentiment of weather and night racing's implausibility in Forza 6 before you foolishly comment about something to the effect of "he hasn't posted about it in this specific thread before so he couldn't have said anything about it elsewhere.


To wit, I thought of his username to single out because he is by far the most outspoken on what Turn 10 apparently won't be able to accomplish with the next game despite seemingly never playing the game they did make; just like Griffith 500 is by far the most outspoken on what PD needs to do to improve GT car sounds, just like Tenacious D is by far the most outspoken about Standard Cars, just like I'm by far the most outspoken about the problems with duplicate cars.

It is interesting though his response to your reply is him giving excuses for T10 on why they might not be able to achieve certain stuff at 1080p 60FPS.

More interesting than that false charge about my post (since, you know, I explained why his supporting evidence wasn't directly related to what he claimed) is how you've come into the thread clearly not reading any of the links he actually posted to defend him over something he has had plenty of times to provide more tangible proof of in the past.

Maybe he should say Turn 10 have no excuses compared to what they deliver on their platform compared to rival platform games given both consoles cost the same to buy and they had their chief architect influence the Xbox One Architecture from the start.

And if he was to say that regarding Forza 6, rather than feeding everyone a line about how it can't be done because *vaguely related internet links*, I would agree with him entirely.




The key here that you missed is that he's not saying that.

@Zer0 I find it a bit ironic that you obsess over the fact that T10 MIGHT not be able to get weather at its intended 1080/60fps yet you haven't as much as raised an eyebrow at GT for having weather and not being able to achieve 1080p/60fps. In this case, what does it matter, if they have no experience? worst case is, is that it'll turn out like Gran Turismo. If you seem ok with them doing it, than you should be fine in this case.

That's because PD totally mastered 60 fps 1080p in weather, yo.

 

[Imari]

Forza 5 doesn't have any current gen rivals at all, it's the only current gen racer, that doesn't mean they can just not add weather.

I agree that the discussion about it shouldn't be fobbed off just because nobody else has it. There's plenty of reasons to discuss adding the feature or not on it's own merits, which is what T10 will likely be doing.

I honestly feel this obsession for 60 fps is getting mad now, it's stopping developers adding tons of detail just for a smoother look which quite a few people don't even notice because they can't notice any difference above 30 fps.

If a game was reduced to 30 fps to add features like weather than I would be okay with it

You could say the same about a lot of features of Forza Motorsport, the extremely complex physics, the complex tuning and customising features, the extreme attention to graphic detail. Pushing the boundaries on these things is kind of part of the selling point of the game. It's not so much about whether people will notice or not, it's that people will buy the game believing that it means something.

I remember buying GT1 because it was supposedly so realistic. I was 14, I wouldn't have known a realistic driving game from a slap in the face with a wet fish. But I bought it, and for the time it was kind of pretty realistic in it's way. People see 60fps as important, regardless of whether it's valuable or not to them, and so it's worthwhile to T10 to have that in their flagship product.

Fortunately, they also have a game where they do sacrifice the ultimate quality of some of those features for a more holistic approach, namely Horizon. I'm hoping that the latest one turns the bro-culture dial down a bit, because that aside it's more or less a perfect casual version of Motorsport. If they can make it just a good game without so much of the cringeworthy stereotypes, I think they'll have hit the jackpot.


To be fair, the obsession for 60fps isn't totally mad. If you're serious about sim racing, it is a big deal. On PC, I will turn down other settings until I can get a steady 60 in sim games. For Motorsport, marketing itself as a simulator, I don't think it's completely wrong to be pushing that sort of approach. Not everyone who is buying it is going to be a hardcore simulation fan, but they are buying it knowing that simulation is the genre that they're buying themselves into. If anything, the 60fps thing adds a certain authenticity to the simulation claim, even if the player can't recognise it.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

That's because PD totally mastered 60 fps 1080p in weather, yo.

This just proves my point how people are prioritising frame rate over more important things.

At least gran turismo has it.

@Imari the thing is though if the frame rate was lowered things like the physics could be a lot more advanced, which is a better step towards simulation than high frame rate. I just feel there are millions of very good reasons to lower the fps, but only one reason to keep it the same.

 

[RacerPaul]

I kind of like the idea of it always being sunny in Forzaland I get enough rain in England, can sure do without it in virtuality

My wishes for F6 would be double the track count, lots of fine-tunable options for free racing and the full on Porsche expansion pack from F4

There's more of course but that'll do for the moment

 

[ImaRobot]

This just proves my point how people are prioritising frame rate over more important things.

At least gran turismo has it.

And what you seem to be doing, is prioritizing weather over a steady playable frame rate. See how that works? Adding or removing a fancy feature is risky business, but I'd rather have something not be there, then to have it and not work as intended.

Dont get confused though, I would love to see weather in a FM title.

Fluctuating frame rate is much worse than a set locked FPS, weather it be 30 or 60 fps. I dont usually mind FPS either way, but being locked is much more desirable.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

And what you seem to be doing, is prioritizing weather over a steady playable frame rate. See how that works? Adding or removing a fancy feature is risky business, but I'd rather have something not be there, then to have it and not work as intended.

Dont get confused though, I would love to see weather in a FM title.

Fluctuating frame rate is much worse than a set locked FPS, weather it be 30 or 60 fps. I dont usually mind FPS either way, but being locked is much more desirable.

I don't notice fps dips though.

This is why I'm saying if anything forza should lock the game at 30 and get the great effects, as high frame rate isn't a priority for me

 

[ImaRobot]

I don't notice fps dips though

I find it hard to believe that you've never once encountered frame rate issues on any game. They are blatently obvious when they occur, they hinder your input and accuracy greatly.

Heres a small example, though, not the games in question.


If you dont realize what happens when something like that happens, then that could be understandable that you think the way you do. If you happen to get fluctuating FPS during a race, then that can be something can very well send you off track flying into a wall because it isnt registering your inputs as smooth as it should be, but more so as if you are slamming the stick one direction repeatedly.

 

[TokoTurismo]

@TokoTurismo forza is ready for weather as the rest of the game is lovely, so don't tell them to hold back!

I totally agree with that, and I will love to see weather come in Forza (oh wait FH2 ). However, keeping the 60fps stable with it is going to be a struggle, so it's best for T10 to sit back and try to get the fps to remain as stable it is now but with weather, although maybe it's possible with day/night cycle.

 

[Brend]

Most of the people who don't 'notice' the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS are just so starved of the higher option they don't know what they are missing, or ignore it.

I'm with Forza 5 on this one. 60FPS is of the highest importance and if for whatever reason the XBOne can't handle weather, ah well. At least the gameplay will maintain the standards it has set in terms of smoothness.

 

[Tornado]

I don't notice fps dips though.

This is why I'm saying if anything forza should lock the game at 30 and get the great effects, as high frame rate isn't a priority for me

Hunt this down:

R4 should set you back only $10. It is a fantastic game in its own right; but more important for this discussion is that ugly green disc.



It has a demo of the original Ridge Racer PSX port. It also has an enhanced, 60 fps, higher resolution version of that PSX port that is much closer to the arcade original (hey, speaking of games at launch vs games released later in a system's life...) so you can directly compare the two yourself; as well a several page explanation accessible from the main menu that explains the differences in gameplay between the two games, why framerate can be important even in a game like Ridge Racer and why they didn't target 60fps for R4 (which was their original goal) and went for locked 30 with much higher detail instead.

 

[Brend]

@Tornado What a coincidence, I used that exact disk to prove to my FPS-ignorant buddy there is a huge difference. Hooked up 2 PS1s and 2 TVs. Worked perfectly.