Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment, Will DLC Save It?

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A year and a half ago I was sure I would be getting an XBone to follow the Forza franchise and whatnot. Then the disastrous console reveal happened, followed by FM5's deal-breaking paltry list of tracks, and finally the announcement of Forza Horizon 2 for 360...

Like both of you, if I ever get one, it will be a used console like my first 360.
 
Yeah.. I still don't think the price of the console + FM5 is well justified.

Used console plus copy of FM5 = great value for money. Let's hope they have GOTY eds hanging around a few years from now!
 
I personally think the games great!.it has 3 more tracks than it did at launch,but there free and play straight into the single player, which is GREAT!
More and more cars are getting the treatment.. All I can see wrong with forza 5 is a few classic tracks that are missing everything else is a step up!.
 
Yeah, there's no doubt it's a good product. I literally cannot think of any other console sim that has taken consistent strides in terms of audio, physics and visuals, amid a few backfires.

Charging people for DLC cars that were available in previous games is wrong. With all the cars and everything, it totals up to nearly a 100 dollars.

Friend.. for $100 you can buy some really good food and nice clothes! Or even a second X1 game.
 
I personally wouldn't buy the dlc cars,,never have done,unless there on offer with gold! :D

The games on Amazon for 20-25 quid atm that is a VERY got price for the quality of product.I'm fully with you on Forza stepping it up for every release,each one being different/better than the last.

There's plenty of cars/tracks/rivals! To get stuck into.
 
Forza 5 was created with time constraints being a launch title for a next gen system,plus they've recreated everything!! That's a great feat in itself..
I was dissapointed when I first heard how little content was going to be in f5 but after borrowing a friends 0ne for a couple of weeks,I couldn't stop playing it!!
Great stuff..

Forza 6 should be straight forward for turn 10 now,more tracks! More cars!
And maybe just maybe some sort of dynamic weather change.. I'm not fully convinced f6 will have dynamic lighting/weather. 60fps being the reason!.
Its not a deal breaker for me anyway..I'll have horizon for that.
 
Forza 5 was created with time constraints being a launch title for a next gen system,plus they've recreated everything!! That's a great feat in itself..
I was dissapointed when I first heard how little content was going to be in f5 but after borrowing a friends 0ne for a couple of weeks,I couldn't stop playing it!!
Great stuff..

Forza 6 should be straight forward for turn 10 now,more tracks! More cars!
And maybe just maybe some sort of dynamic weather change.. I'm not fully convinced f6 will have dynamic lighting/weather. 60fps being the reason!.
Its not a deal breaker for me anyway..I'll have horizon for that.

I'm no millionaire, but I don't mind paying for a good product. Yea, it can be a bit disappointing getting cars in DLC packs that we've had before, but most of the Forza cars are awesome, so I don't mind. I don't go to restaurants and complaint about how I have to re-purchase the same meal I bought yesterday. If I like, I'll pay for it again.

As many on here know, I've been competing in motorsport for quite some time, and I've met a lot of the T10 folks around various US tracks. Luckily, I am also very tech savvy (I work on computers for a living) so I always enjoy speaking to the developers when they show up. Almost every conversation I've had with the folks over at T10 (all of which has been before the release of FM5) have ended in a manner that hints towards the XBOX's incapability to handle all the advanced technology the team over at T10 are trying to implement into their game. One specific time, (I was racing at Laguna Seca at the time) I spoke to someone working on the game's physics and I argued a lot of the braking dynamics in FM4. I'll spare you the details, but in short, the person I spoke to just told me that their engine ran a lot better on PC than on the 360 and that they had to make sacrifices. I fear the same might be true with the XBOX Juan...given that the internals are equal that to a budget gaming PC.

I'm not getting my hopes up too much. I love the FM series, and I hate to see it chained down by hardware.
 
Nice read.
I'm not getting my hopes up too much either,but if its pretty much a nicer version of forza 5 with more tracks/cars and a better main game structure(something a bit more interesting) there onto a winner in my eye's.

The Xbox one is a closed system unlike a PC. Consoles always get more bang for buck. Put the innards of the 360 in a PC it wouldn't play a lot of titles..
The one has some tricks up its sleeve with tiled resources and dx12 will help things along.

But....60fps gameplay over any wet racing.
 
Nice read.
I'm not getting my hopes up too much either,but if its pretty much a nicer version of forza 5 with more tracks/cars and a better main game structure(something a bit more interesting) there onto a winner in my eye's.

The Xbox one is a closed system unlike a PC. Consoles always get more bang for buck. Put the innards of the 360 in a PC it wouldn't play a lot of titles..
The one has some tricks up its sleeve with tiled resources and dx12 will help things along.

But....60fps gameplay over any wet racing.

Same here. I know, regardless, I'm gonna get FM6. Such a great franchise.
Of course, consoles are purpose built in every way. However, when you have launch titles such as Call of Duty that are incapable of running in native 1080 while maintaining 60fps, then that is worrying. Keep in mind that this is a game that has been running on the same game engine since near the launch of the last-gen consoles.

One of my clients was a graphics arts teacher in San Francisco who has worked at many different studios, and he told me that developers themselves have had a lot more trouble with the xbox than the playstation this time around. I always thought the developers make the games to run PC, but he said that many developers are starting development on the PS4 for multi-platform releases....which is pretty refreshing to hear.

Stories such as these keep my hopes down for a "Dream" Forza title this generation. If anyhting, I think we'd get options to start the race in given conditions (Night, Rain, etc.) but I don't know if a dynamic weather system is possible without sacrifices.

Then again, doesn't Project Cars run 1080/60FPS?
Maybe there's hope.
 
Will be interesting to see what they can do with Forza 6 while keeping 60fps. I wonder would they dare to go 30fps for weather races or use a varible frame rate like Gran Turismo or drop down the resolution.

Pcars is targeting 1080p/60fps but of course this means nothing until we actually get hold of the game.
 
If Turn 10 has a beefier simulation running on PC, the issue comes down to how efficient their code is and how they balance gameplay versus eye candy. I realize the market doesn't give a rat's ass about anything past a shiny high-definition facade, but the Xbox (360 or One) is more than powerful enough to do better in other areas, if only Turn 10 allotted its resources accordingly. It shouldn't be taken for granted that Turn 10 have done the very best they can with the hardware they get. That amounts to perfection, just within certain parameters.
 
If Turn 10 has a beefier simulation running on PC, the issue comes down to how efficient their code is and how they balance gameplay versus eye candy. I realize the market doesn't give a rat's ass about anything past a shiny high-definition facade, but the Xbox (360 or One) is more than powerful enough to do better in other areas, if only Turn 10 allotted its resources accordingly. It shouldn't be taken for granted that Turn 10 have done the very best they can with the hardware they get. That amounts to perfection, just within certain parameters.

Aye, completely agree.
When the gentleman at Laguna that one day was explaining it to me, he seemed a bit disappointed. Not in themselves, but by the fact that they KNOW that they are capable of a lot, lot more.

My criticism, at the time, was with FM4's braking and suspension replication under load. We discussed the telemetry data from my race car and mainly focused on the drop down towards Turn 2 and the braking zone right before the Corkscrew. We both agreed that FM4's physics were a bit flawed in that aspect, but he (this was a while ago, but I believe his first name was Greg??) had me convinced that their PC simulation was beyond what the 360 is capable of. When Dan G. was discussing crunching data on the cloud to take load off of the system's resources, that conversation I had with the T10 employee is the first thing that came to my mind. I think T10 was doing something to the 787B that day, because there was one there (and the T10 guys showed up again during the same year's Monterey Historics. One of the Mazda Wankels did get solo laps around the track...which I suspect is related to it all, because there was a DLC that came out shortly afterwards with that car in it)

For the record, all of the "complaints" I had with the T10 employee on that day have been improved on drastically. I love FM5's physics. To those who can't tell the difference, I am sorry. I tried FM5 with a wheel a few times (currently play it casually with a pad) and I absolutely loved it. From my personal experience as a racer, I'd put FM5 high up there next to GTR/rFactor and beyond GT6. Those are just my $0.2
 
@TheCrazySwede -- For the record, I don't doubt that FM5's physics are a commendable improvement over FM4. But overall, the game falls short of enticing me to invest in the console, and I'll admit it's a tall order because the Forza brand is the only thing that would draw me to an XBone in the first place. The promise of Forza Horizon 2 for 360 is enough to keep me going through next year, when we hear about FM6. By then, PCARS might prove itself to be a worthy replacement altogether.

So...in a way, I agree that Turn 10 is woefully chained down by hardware. If Forza Motorsport 5 released for Wii U tomorrow I'd have it on my shelf. The flipside is that I don't think FM5 is much of a system-mover, IMHO. But it certainly could be a great foundation for FM6 to fill that role.
 
@TheCrazySwede -- For the record, I don't doubt that FM5's physics are a commendable improvement over FM4. But overall, the game falls short of enticing me to invest in the console, and I'll admit it's a tall order because the Forza brand is the only thing that would draw me to an XBone in the first place. The promise of Forza Horizon 2 for 360 is enough to keep me going through next year, when we hear about FM6. By then, PCARS might prove itself to be a worthy replacement altogether.

So...in a way, I agree that Turn 10 is woefully chained down by hardware. If Forza Motorsport 5 released for Wii U tomorrow I'd have it on my shelf. The flipside is that I don't think FM5 is much of a system-mover, IMHO. But it certainly could be a great foundation for FM6 to fill that role.

I felt the same way. Originally, I pre-ordered FM5 and picked it up day one...but I didn't get my XBone until months afterward (bought off of a friend who got it as a gift)
Had that not have happen, I probably wouldn't have an XBone now, either. I've always bought the LE versions of Forza, so I was gonna buy the game regardless of the console.

If I recall, T10 was pushed to release FM5 as a launch title. This must've altered the decision making over at T10, compared to past games. As much as I love FM5, I can't help but to see it as an appetizer. I, too, am waiting for the full meal (FM6)
 
^^ If I recall, that's what they did with FM4 as well - many people referred to it as FM 3.5 instead.

Not sure if a 2 year dev cycle is enough.

The notion that the X1 isn't powerful enough to handle some of the magic and gimmickry devs have up their sleeves this generation, is disturbing to say the least. The X360 rose to the top FAST. Sadly, this does not appear to be the case with the X1, as is evidenced by the fact that T10 had to shy away from night driving and weather yet again. COD experiencing stable frame rate issues?? COD..seriously??? That's a first. Not a good sign.

I had a feeling the PS4 might trump the X1 this generation. Looks like the hardware this time around is very much programmer-friendly. Sony has probably learned from their mistakes too.

As for PCARS, we don't know if the X1 and PS4 version are BOTH going to look as good. The X1 version may be making certain compromises, but it's too early to say. 3 months from now, we'll know for sure.

I'll have to wait at least a year and see how all these stack up together: FM6 vs PCARS vs Drive Club vs GT7.

I've always felt T10 had more to offer but they just couldn't push hard enough due to the hardware not being able to cope with the engine at a locked 60 fps. Speaking of which, I hope I don't ever have to play any driving game at 30 fps when I do get my hands on a current gen console.

Had it not been for MS, I think T10 might have moved to the PC or PS4 by now. PCARS and FM6 is what I'm looking forward to the most.

@TheCrazySwede How would you pit the PS4 against a gaming PC? Would you say it's as capable and powerful as a high-end gaming PC?
 
The ps4 is the more powerful system,but not by as much as you think @Speedster911 just look at the latest digital foundry faceoffs and ul see there isn't a lot in it anymore.

On paper yes the ps4 looks more powerful but that never materialises into much in real game development.. In the range of 10-20 %

Forza 6 will have had a massive advantage over the competition having spent 2 years making forza 5 all that they've learnt can go straight Into forza6...
I for one carnt wait to see what they have In store!!! :D
 
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Very informative notes @TheCrazySwede, thanks for sharing. As i can understand their (T10) POV and hardware limitation, meantime have few concerns:
-in cockpit wheel 90' limitation is due to X1 spec?
-grass and some kerbs pulls because of limitation?
-lack of any dictionarising in search engine helping and correcting words?
-cracked windows getting back to new shape after changing views
-unusable cockpit view without any fov regulation?
-cartoon behavior like changing gear from 6 to revers driving 200km/h or locking wheels at this speed with ease

and theres more issues, having little in common to console specification.
I cannot accept explaining with "rush" deadline, cause i remember Dan G. talking clearly Forza 5 is as it should be and works how they wanted to perform!

No offense, i really hope that best for Forza title that could happen is Project CARS.
 
The notion that the X1 isn't powerful enough to handle some of the magic and gimmickry devs have up their sleeves this generation, is disturbing to say the least. The X360 rose to the top FAST. Sadly, this does not appear to be the case with the X1, as is evidenced by the fact that T10 had to shy away from night driving and weather yet again. COD experiencing stable frame rate issues?? COD..seriously??? That's a first. Not a good sign.
Where is this notion coming from? Now that they have the base down, I'm also excited to see what FM6 will feature, since they seemed to get most of the hard work out of the way. While they'll still have a deadline, I dont think they'll feel as rushed as when they where trying to get something out for the Xbox One Launch.

Have you played COD before?
 
Where is this notion coming from? Now that they have the base down, I'm also excited to see what FM6 will feature, since they seemed to get most of the hard work out of the way. While they'll still have a deadline, I dont think they'll feel as rushed as when they where trying to get something out for the Xbox One Launch.

Have you played COD before?

Totally agree with you imaRobot.They've got the hard work out the way which didn't do them any favours at the start but it will benefit them for forza 6 for sure. Cod had more frame rate issues on the ps4 anyway.. I don't know what this guy is trying to say??. A games frame rate and optimisation is down to the developer,if its badly optimised then its the developers fault not Microsoft's!
 
Zer0 The WHOLE internet (developers, magazines, tech reviews, performance tests, forum discussions, etc)
http://www.insiderp.com/list-of-sub-hd-games-on-ps4-xboxone.html
https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=GNnfU__YEsTX8gefpoHADA&gws_rd=cr#q=xbox one 1080p bottleneck&spell=1
http://bgr.com/2014/04/09/xbox-one-vs-ps4-performance/

You guys should look a little more outside this forum, it has been the hottest topic of the XBone since it launched and is discussed almost every time when a multiplayer game launchs and is reviewed between consoles.

The problem with the XBone are the 1080/60 games with complex graphical effects, and that was my concern in a future FM6 with the same FH2 (1080/30) features. Not something that should rise the eyebrows of anyone, except here it seems.

To understand better what is rendering actually FM5, is the same that was showing GT4 ten years back with an absurdly weak (to today standards) console, but at a bigger scale in FM5.

00210606v6yfp.jpg


13635606785_a2e04ace44na3e.jpg

Credit: https://www.flickr.com/photos/56759586@N07/13635606785/

Now, adapting that baked quality world to a modern all real-time rendered environment would be a previous requisite to any realistic dynamic weather and time changing effect. Also would require a big rework in all the actual baked FM5 tracks and would require a complete brand-new very complex real-time rendering engine to don't show any differences with the actual FM5 graphics. And also a very powerfull machine and a very capable programmers to achieve the task.
 
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I'd rather spend more time playing racing games than knocking them. Right now, there's only one next gen console I can do that on. Should this situation change I'll be in the queue for the other console along with everyone else.
 
@rauf00


-in cockpit wheel 90' limitation is due to X1 spec?

This could easily be a designer decision. Not all racing wheels have 900' turning. In fact, most don't. Keep in mind that FM5 is a rather mainstream racing game, despite of all of the simulation and realism. That is an amazing feat on its own.
The racing sim I use the most (SimBin's GTR2) only has 90' turning animations, but that doesn't limit the use of a 900' wheel. Same with Forza.

-grass and some kerbs pulls because of limitation?

Again, this could easily have been a designer decision, and not a flaw or limitation. Take a track like the Nordschliefe, where over taking takes a great deal of patience and technique. Having someone just drive past you on the grass would suck. The pulling gives consequence. Curbs are slippery in real life. I've spun my own race car around a bunch of times because of this. Sandtraps, much like the grass, is a designer's decision. When my Porsche went off (my second GT2 race) and into the sand pits at Laguna, due to the lack of threads on my tires and among other reasons, our race cars are unable to drive out on their own. This is good, because it also means we can't drive off and into the crowd or hill (or lake, at Laguna) because the sand stops you. This also means we have to be towed out, which isn't really fun. I'm glad FM5 doesn't replicate this.

-lack of any dictionarising in search engine helping and correcting words?

Speaking of correcting words, I don't think "dictionarising" is one....in any language. I get what you mean, though. Not entirely sure, however, what this has to do with the fidelity of the game. It has more so to do with the player's lack of a proper education and vocabulary....

-cracked windows getting back to new shape after changing views

Personally, I have never noticed this before, so I have no clue. Probably because I don't crack my windshields to begin with.

-unusable cockpit view without any fov regulation?

Unusable cockpit? All I use is cockpit view (and occasionally hood cam) so I have no clue what you are referring to. Not sure what you mean by field of view (which is what I assume you are saying) regulation. Make the windshields wider? Adjusting your car seat? Not all cars have that option and I've never found the need for it in FM5 anyway.


-cartoon behavior like changing gear from 6 to revers driving 200km/h or locking wheels at this speed with ease

There's a couple of things to keep in mind. You can easily argue, after driving on the Nurburgring in Forza, that you think all the 'Ring drivers are a bunch of wusses, because you didn't find it scary at all, and in fact, your butt wasn't even hurting so you have no idea what they are constantly complaining about. Bumpy? Pff, please. Your couch barely moved.

You can shift from 6th to reverse in real life if you wanted to. Not sure what you mean "with ease" because much like my Nurburgring reference, YOU are not doing the shift. All you are doing is pressing a button or using your gaming wheel set. Whether or not it is with ease (and if by that you are referring to physical aspects) is completely un-aware to you. As far as locking the wheels go, it is very, very easy to lock them up with no ABS. Trust me, I know.

and theres more issues, having little in common to console specification.
I cannot accept explaining with "rush" deadline, cause i remember Dan G. talking clearly Forza 5 is as it should be and works how they wanted to perform!


None of the above examples you gave sounded like "issues" to me. If anything, they are issues that you are having with the game and not the other way around.

No offense, i really hope that best for Forza title that could happen is Project CARS.

None taken. Just thought I'd point some things out.
 
You guys should look a little more outside this forum, it has been the hottest topic of the XBone since it launched and is discussed almost every time when a multiplayer game launchs and is reviewed between consoles.
The PS4 is the stronger console, it was never argued that. It was argued that some how that because the PS4 has an edge, it renders the Xbox One obsolete, Which is not the case.

On multiplatform games, the differences, while there, are miniscule. Still, it is up to the developer what they can actually produce with the edge they have. Just because they have the stronger system, isnt going to mean jack if they cant put together a proper game.

The problem with the XBone are the 1080/60 games with complex graphical effects, and that was my concern in a future FM6 with the same FH2 (1080/30) features. Not something that should rise the eyebrows of anyone, except here it seems.
What exactly are those probelms? (i think I'm opening a can of worms here)

To understand better what is rendering actually FM5, is the same that was showing GT4 ten years back with an absurdly weak (to today standards) console, but at a bigger scale in FM5.
So your comparing static, non-gameplay, to something that is actually from gameplay?

That same picture from GT4 can be used to the same degree on most things from the iterations that came after that.

Now, adapting that baked quality world to a modern all real-time rendered environment would be a previous requisite to any realistic dynamic weather and time changing effect. Also would require a big rework in all the actual baked FM5 tracks and would require a complete brand-new very complex real-time rendering engine to don't show any differences with the actual FM5 graphics. And also a very powerfull machine and a very capable programmers to achieve the task.
So are you saying that it cant be done? Please show me your footwork and research and physical evidence showing that please.
 
That's simply a list of games that perform at sub-HD resolutions; only one of which has a direct comparison between. It does absolutely nothing for the notion in question that Turn 10 will be incapable of things like weather or night racing for FM6. If someone circa-2007 was arguing that PD would never get weather or night racing working on PS3 because The Orange Box was terrible compared to the 360 version, I'm most positive you would rake them over the coals for it.



Hint: That's because the argument itself, that very early multiplatform game differences dictate the quality of first party games, is stupid; and you know it.

That's a link to a Google search. Get real.




Though it's certainly amusing that the 5th link in your "proof" says this:
Xbox One RAM makes 1080p tricky, but it will catch the PS4 – Sniper Elite dev
And the seventh link says this:
Crytek Not Expecting Xbox One eSRAM Bottleneck To Be Patched But Expects Unique Tech For It
So perhaps not so cut and dried.


That's saying what everyone has known since both systems launched. It does absolutely nothing for the notion in question that Turn 10 will be incapable of things like weather or night racing for FM6.




So, it seems to me that "the WHOLE internet" is not, in fact, saying the things that you keep repeating whenever someone says they look forward to what Turn 10 can achieve next go around. Though since you seem to have some sort of radar installed, maybe if I say your name in one of those older discussions you will magically appear and say something about them.
 
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Where is this notion coming from? Now that they have the base down, I'm also excited to see what FM6 will feature, since they seemed to get most of the hard work out of the way. While they'll still have a deadline, I dont think they'll feel as rushed as when they where trying to get something out for the Xbox One Launch.

Have you played COD before?

Please refer to the TheCrazySwede's post(s).

Played all CODs on the X360. COD on current gen - again, refer to previous posts, then get back to me.

That's simply a list of games that perform at sub-HD resolutions; only one of which has a direct comparison between. It does absolutely nothing for the notion in question that Turn 10 will be incapable of things like weather or night racing for FM6. If someone circa-2007 was arguing that PD would never get weather or night racing working on PS3 because The Orange Box was terrible compared to the 360 version, I'm most positive you would rake them over the coals for it.



Hint: That's because the argument itself, that very early multiplatform game differences dictate the quality of first party games, is stupid; and you know it.


That's a link to a Google search. Get real.




Though it's certainly amusing that the 5th link in your "proof" says this:

And the seventh link says this:

So perhaps not so cut and dried.



That's saying what everyone has known since both systems launched. It does absolutely nothing for the notion in question that Turn 10 will be incapable of things like weather or night racing for FM6.




So, it seems to me that "the WHOLE internet" is not, in fact, saying the things that you keep repeating whenever someone says they look forward to what Turn 10 can achieve next go around. Though since you seem to have some sort of radar installed, maybe if I say your name in one of those older discussions you will magically appear and say something about them.

:lol::lol::lol: *Laughing hysterically like Drew Carry from Whose Line is it Anyway*
 
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