Forza 6 News Incoming?

[Igano]

@digiprost recently uploaded a comparison video, I simply cannot tell the difference really:

I am not so sure how it can show on a video. First reason is that youtube (I don't know if it's still) doesn't show above 30 fps and the second reason is there is some loss on the video capture. To understand the difference you have to play with both 30 and 60.

 

[TJisA1337NOOB]

I am not so sure how it can show on a video. First reason is that youtube (I don't know if it's still) doesn't show above 30 fps and the second reason is there is some loss on the video capture. To understand the difference you have to play with both 30 and 60.

YouTube recently had an update that allowed 60 FPS videos on certain browsers.

 

[ImaRobot]

YouTube recently had an update that allowed 60 FPS videos on certain browsers.

Ah I thought it was for certain videos. Still though, that wouldnt work, because wouldnt that effectively render the comparison useless, as it'll mess with the 30 FPS video as well?

 

[GranTurismo guy]

To get weather, night, and 60fps, I wouldn't mind if t10 removed details from the tracks, say, less trees at the back you barely ever see anyway, that sort of thing. (god forbid any developer prioritise 1 million trees over frame rate.....)

@ImaRobot it's for any video that's uploaded in 60fps

 

[Marqus]

To get weather, night, and 60fps, I wouldn't mind if t10 removed details from the tracks, say, less trees at the back you barely ever see anyway, that sort of thing. (god forbid any developer prioritise 1 million trees over frame rate.....)

Ha. Driveclub

 

[ImaRobot]

To get weather, night, and 60fps, I wouldn't mind if t10 removed details from the tracks, say, less trees at the back you barely ever see anyway, that sort of thing. (god forbid any developer prioritise 1 million trees over frame rate.....)

@ImaRobot it's for any video that's uploaded in 60fps

And the stupid helicopters, its not like it can be used through replay anyways

 

[GranTurismo guy]

And the stupid helicopters, its not like it can be used through replay anyways

The mirrors I heard somewhere take a lot of the power

 

[BoneSawTX]

The mirrors I heard somewhere take a lot of the power

I play a WWII flight sim and a bunch of people want the mirrors that some planes had, and that is the same reason they gave as to not modeling them. Eats up resources, plus if you see a guy in it your already dead anyways.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I play a WWII flight sim and a bunch of people want the mirrors that some planes had, and that is the same reason they gave as to not modeling them. Eats up resources, plus if you see a guy in it your already dead anyways.

Perhaps simplify the items that appear? I personally don't mind a more basic setup. When you look in a mirror irl you don't notice much anyway, you just focus on the cars

 

[Wolfe]

I think 30fps is okay as long as it's guaranteed, and not just a target. Before I played the first Forza Horizon, I wouldn't have believed how smooth a 30fps racing game can look when the framerate is locked solid.

 

[mister dog]

I said it before and I'll say it again, look where we are already talking compromises and those next gen consoles are barely released a year...

 

[BoneSawTX]

Honestly I'm okay with no rain or weather effects, but I'd like to have time transition. After seeing how smooth FM5 is compared to FH2, no thanks to 30fps.

 

[Zelalem]

I want an Forzavista AR Mode

That DX12 demo gives hope for keeping Forza 6 at 60fps from the press event.

Turn 10 will run Forza Motorsport 6 at 60FPS, because framerate seems to be very important for them and every Motorsport game since FM2 run at 60FPS.

 

[SlyNine]

I thought framerate has nothing to do with the physics.

Just remember what's shown on screen is something that has already happened. With 60fps its only 16.6ms in the past (more actually but just for example) with 30fps its 33ms in the past. Also once you make an input, its going to take another 33ms for that to show (vs 16ms at 60fps). Add this together with other sources of latency, like input and processing latency and from your display, and you could end up with a very sluggish feeling game regardless of how many times a second the physics are updated.

So while it is true that Forza cycles its physics at 360hz (at least in Forza 4) if its not quick at responding to your input it will feel slow.

 

[SlyNine]

@digiprost recently uploaded a comparison video, I simply cannot tell the difference really:

Youtube compresses videos down to 30fps. so ya.

You won't unless you're using chrome or safari

I thought it was all videos, is this incorrect?

Just looked in to it, youtube now supports 60fps. But like GT guy said, Chrome or safari. Nice and about time.

Look up Red Dragon on YT. watch some of his newest stuff. We still dont know how the esRam will be utilized.

"It’s not immediately clear whether or not this is a true cache or software managed memory. I’d hope for the former but it’s quite possible that it isn’t. At 32MB the ESRAM is more than enough for frame buffer storage, indicating that Microsoft expects developers to use it to offload requests from the system memory bus. Game console makers (Microsoft included) have often used large high speed memories to get around memory bandwidth limitations, so this is no different. Although 32MB doesn’t sound like much, if it is indeed used as a cache (with the frame buffer kept in main memory) it’s actually enough to have a substantial hit rate in current workloads (although there’s not much room for growth)."
This was wrote before the release. But it doesn't really sound like there is a lot of uses for the ESram outside the obvious. I'm sure there are a lot of optimizations for SDKs and developers tho. But that's beyond my scope.

 

[SlyNine]

Delete didn't mean to make another post.

 

[katpeeler]

If they dont let you paint your car yellow it will help...yellow takes alot or resources.....Look at Big Bird

 

[Speedster911]

As I understand it the physics recalc rate in Forza games is faster than the video frame refresh rate and is in the order of 360Hz regardless of game.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-forza-horizon

The 360Hz physics refresh ain't worth didley squat unless you got your game pumping out 60 fps. Why is this necessary? With enough fluidity and responsiveness, the user gets to react with the game better. Almost in real-time.

60 fps are smoother to the eye and gives you better reaction because of that. Just a tiny advantage but once you get used to it, you never want to go back to 30 fps

There you go. At times, 30 fps games give me a headache when I go to them after too much Forza.

I wouldn't say never, i was ok with fh2, but recently I have appreciated more that 60 fps just looks nicer and more real.

It most certainly does. It is because of that "real time" feel, all games should strive to hit 60 fps on consoles. When the PS1 came out, initially most games on it touted 60 fps and they were fantastic: Wipeout, Tekken, Gran Turismo etc.

Plus, you don't need to kill the lights... 60 fps still appears fantastic. To experience the same kind of smoothness in a 30 fps game, you need to play in a completely dark room with the back light as low as possible.

I am not so sure how it can show on a video. First reason is that youtube (I don't know if it's still) doesn't show above 30 fps and the second reason is there is some loss on the video capture. To understand the difference you have to play with both 30 and 60.

Exactly; a video will never convey it accurately, since you're watching it on another screen, no matter how many frames your web browser is displaying. Best way is to play a 30 fps racing game, and a 60 fps one. Or a 30 fps shooter and a 60 fps one.

COD and BF, *almost* night and day when it comes to fluidity and responsiveness.

 

[UKMikey]

The 360Hz physics refresh ain't worth didley squat unless you got your game pumping out 60 fps. Why is this necessary? With enough fluidity and responsiveness, the user gets to react with the game better. Almost in real-time.

You'd better let the Project CARS people know if this is the case. Their game recalculates physics six hundred times a second while the single player mode is going to be 30fps display on XB1 according to some posters here.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You'd better let the Project CARS people know if this is the case. Their game recalculates physics six hundred times a second while the single player mode is going to be 30fps display on XB1 according to some posters here.

Where did some posters on here say that?

 

[UKMikey]

Where did some posters on here say that?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-6-news-incoming.322427/page-6#post-10399401

 

[Saidur_Ali]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-6-news-incoming.322427/page-6#post-10399401

That is about Halo MCC and seems incorrect information about it, what does that have to do with pCARS?

 

[Mitsurugi]

Yes I agree F6 absolutely needs night and weather. There is simply NO excuse at this point. Already bad enough it did not have night weather in F5 after removing almost 500 cars from the game along with about half the tracks and AH and the storefront. Weather night MUST be in F6. Otherwise it will not be a purchase for me, just like F5 was not a purchase for me. I said years ago I will not buy another Forza game until it has night / weather. That's why I purchased Horizon 2. But not F5. (F5 came free with my X1).

I believe it is simply not possible taking into account the relatively tight 24 month development cycle to include weather AND night. I find it interesting how you view things with regards to Forza 5, specifically to the lack of content. Allow me to elaborate, it was simply a case of T10 deciding not to port over any content/assets from F4, which itself was built upon F2 and F3. Therefore, F4 was the accumulation of 6 years worth of time energy resources and talent. F5 on the other hand was built from scratch to take advantage of the then next gen hardware and as such had everything built a new.

Moreover it had to deal with a moving hardware target, as they were developing on incomplete SDKs, with no actual X1s, but emulation kits until right at the very end. All this and T10 still managed to give us over 200 next-gen rendered cars, a significantly enhanced physics engine, and the most advanced tire modelling, not to mention next-gen AI in Drivatars.

Forza 6 will be more complete as a package for sure, but until T10 reveal the game at E3, only then will we know what we have in front of us. T10 don't appear to do things by half's, that 60fps update is locked on Forza Motorsport titles, very few games manage this. In fact come to think of it on current-gen Forza 5 is still the only racing title to be released at 1080px60fps locked. In the time frame T10 has I expect more cars, tracks, and night time driving. We may see some wet surface roads. This is just speculation of course, I could be wrong, but lets set our expectation a little more realistically, that way we wont have a reason to rain down on them yet again.

 

[Mitsurugi]

The problem is fh1 had day to night and dirt roads, but that didn't make it to fm5. I'm not saying we won't get them for fm6, but just don't expect the features to be here 100% guaranteed just because they've already done them.

I'd also like to add that the weather/dynamic time of day/lighting effects was achieved on FH2 at HALF the frame-rate of that of a Forza Motorsport title. A game running at half the frame-rate has practically twice the rendering budget if not a little more, so achieving the same level of visual effect as FH2 on a Forza Motorsport title at twice the frame-rate is perhaps asking too much from the XB1, even taking into account it's notable improvements to the SDKs over the last year.

I do hope I'm pleasantly surprised come E3 though.

 

[Mitsurugi]

Project cars is now 60 fps on ps4, still struggling to get that on xb1.

I like the xbox one, buts it's just clear the ps4 has more power. But in the end it's what games are released on what console that matters.

I think the question might relate to released games, and PCars is not yet available. Also, whilst developers/publishers claim a specific performance metric has been achieved, you and I know that the actual real performance can vary quite a bit from said metrics, and places like Digital Foundry provide us with the facts/results as to how the games performance actually measures up across all current platforms.

 

[Speedster911]

You'd better let the Project CARS people know if this is the case. Their game recalculates physics six hundred times a second while the single player mode is going to be 30fps display on XB1 according to some posters here.

Ah, well... in that case you can sure as heck bet on the fact that the PS4 version is going to feel a heckuva lot more realistic while on track.. especially with a wheel. The 60 fps will really connect the player with the real-time physics going on in the game.

P.S: 600 a second cycles? That just wet my appetite!

I believe it is simply not possible taking into account the relatively tight 24 month development cycle to include weather AND night. I find it interesting how you view things with regards to Forza 5, specifically to the lack of content. Allow me to elaborate, it was simply a case of T10 deciding not to port over any content/assets from F4, which itself was built upon F2 and F3. Therefore, F4 was the accumulation of 6 years worth of time energy resources and talent. F5 on the other hand was built from scratch to take advantage of the then next gen hardware and as such had everything built a new.

Moreover it had to deal with a moving hardware target, as they were developing on incomplete SDKs, with no actual X1s, but emulation kits until right at the very end. All this and T10 still managed to give us over 200 next-gen rendered cars, a significantly enhanced physics engine, and the most advanced tire modelling, not to mention next-gen AI in Drivatars.

Forza 6 will be more complete as a package for sure, but until T10 reveal the came at E3, only then will we know what we have in front of us. T10 don't appear to do things by half's, that 60fps update is locked on Forza Motorsport titles, very few games manage this. In fact come to think of it on current-gen Forza 5 is still the only racing title to be released at 1080px60fps locked. In the time frame T10 has I expect more cars, tracks, and night time driving. We may see some wet surface roads. This is just speculation of course, I could be wrong, but lets set our expectation a little more realistically, that way we wont have a reason to rain down on them yet again.

Your response certainly made for an interesting read. They did what they could with the new SDKs. They actually developed the game on a powerful PC and had to tone it down a bit for the X1.

I remember how the X360 was inferior to the PS3 hardware-wise... but boy o boy did they start making killer games (visually) after about 2 to 3 years... though I don't it would take devs that long to come to terms with the X1's hardware.

Finally, a developer who has stuck with their locked 60 fps standard since FM2 is nothing but impressive and deserves a standing ovation. The F.Motorsport experience would be nowhere as engrossing had it not been for that.

Can't wait for E3 this year!

 

[RacerPaul]

I find it interesting how you view things with regards to Forza 5, specifically to the lack of content. Allow me to elaborate. It was simply a case of T10 deciding not to port over any content/assets from F4, which itself was built upon F2 and F3. Therefore, F4 was the accumulation of 6 years worth of time energy resources and talent. F5 on the other hand was built from scratch to take advantage of the then next gen hardware and as such had everything built a new

Indeed. I would much rather take a hit in terms of quantity of cars to have proper current gen quality. Much, much rather that than Polyphony Digital's approach with the upcoming GT7, keeping car models from two gen's back

 

[Mitsurugi]

You'd better let the Project CARS people know if this is the case. Their game recalculates physics six hundred times a second while the single player mode is going to be 30fps display on XB1 according to some posters here.

I wish to correct folks on here who may be under the impression PCars on XB1 in single player is running at 30fps. This is factually incorrect. The developers have announced that the XB1 version is running at 60fps.

 

[mister dog]

I wish to correct folks on here who may be under the impression PCars on XB1 in single player is running at 30fps. This is factually incorrect. The developers have announced that the XB1 version is running at 60fps.

And PCARS has dynamic weather and day/ night cycles
So i'm sure T10 can follow suit.

 

[Mitsurugi]

Ha. Driveclub

I think what you are suggesting falls under the "optimisations" phase, which usually is towards the end of the development cycle. This would usually be done to "re-balance" the levels for optimum performance and stability.

On the other hand, implementing weather/dynamic time-of-day represents a completely different set of challenges, one that may involve significant underlying codebase changes assuming the hardware in question is up to the task.

If not, we either get a similitude of the effects or compromises in other areas, namely resolution or frame-rate. I don't believe T10 would be willing to do this, its a flagship franchise. The only concessions thus far seen are the rear-view/side mirror rendering at 30fps at a much lower detail.