Forza 6 News Incoming?

[BoneSawTX]

If Turn 10 have to choose between 60fps and weather for FM6, it's still their own fault for spending too much juice on other things.

What other things would you take out that would bring weather at 60fps?

 

[espeed623]

Not entirely relevant, but interesting altogether.
I would totally put Windows 10 on my MacBook just to stream FM6. /offtopic

 

[Wolfe]

Fewer polys, smaller-res textures, less-intensive shaders or effects, or maybe they could find some efficiency gains in the code they've already got. Only Turn 10 knows what they could do differently.

I'm not saying those tradeoffs appeal to everyone, but you can't blame the hardware, given the range of visuals possible with today's technology and the very high level of quality in FM5/FH2. The only thing standing between the XBone and weather effects at 60fps is T10's own software. And the demand for maximum-quality assets, perhaps.

 

[espeed623]

Recall how they were talking about how night racing in Motorsport would require the same tradeoffs (This was when they were doing their F4 Q&A series in 2011)?

What can you tell us about night racing and weather effects in Forza 4?

Forza Motorsport includes alternate times of day for a small number of environments, but those alternates do not include dark night or weather effects. For Forza 4, the majority of our graphical investment went into our new image-based lighting (IBL) model, as well as new material shaders, which give our cars and tracks such a realistic, detailed look. With IBL, supporting the general look of night is not particularly hard. However, we take frame rate pretty seriously—we believe that having a solid 60 frames per second (FPS) experience with no tearing is very important for a simulation racing game. Delivering night is about more than just getting the general look right. As we found on the original Forza Motorsport, having multiple headlight projections with multiple cast shadows is computationally heavy—even using clever tricks like we did on the less powerful original Xbox platform. This makes delivering a strong night racing experience very difficult at 60 FPS without significant compromise.

...

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible. Some of those trade-offs, we just were not willing to do. Others would require time that we used to develop other features in the game—specifically, the new graphical look of the game in general. Night and weather are features we will continue to evaluate as the franchise continues. We’re waiting for the right time to deliver these features to our fans.

I think that the improvements to the XB1 SDK and whatever possible improvements to T10's FM engine MIGHT allow for night. I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but given the hardware and software improvements over the 360, it should be possible. If this doesn't happen with 6, I may just let out a huge groan... ...and still play it.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

The Xbox has slower RAM, but not less power. They both have 8GB of RAM. We will see when the cores become more accessible with DX12. Utilizing all the cores could very well be the difference between rain and 30 FPS and 60FPS.

 

[SlyNine]

The Xbox has slower RAM, but not less power. They both have 8GB of RAM. We will see when the cores become more accessible with DX12. Utilizing all the cores could very well be the difference between rain and 30 FPS and 60FPS.

The X1 does have less power than the PS4 when it comes to GPU. Since it is the GPU that is highely responsible for these graphical effects. Having more CPU power will likely do little to maintain a stable frame rate (especially when you increase core count and not cycle rate). Also I doubt DX12 has much to do with the X1 beyond marketing. It already uses a very low level API developed by the people that made the hardware itself (amd).

Better SDKs, refinements to the engine, and more time to spend weighing the tradeoffs between techniques will be the difference maker here. Perhaps they will be able to add night easy enough. I also look to see much better graphics with FM6 vs 5.

But with rain comes a whole new problem, that perhaps those extra CPU cores would be useful for. Physics. I'd like rain physics to be more than just the same surface with slightly less traction. I think T10 feels the same and that's why they haven't implemented that.

But personally, I'd take rally racing (Forza Motorsports style as opposed to Horizons style) over all that any day.

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

Project cars is now 60 fps on ps4, still struggling to get that on xb1.

I like the xbox one, buts it's just clear the ps4 has more power. But in the end it's what games are released on what console that matters.

I doubt it's 1080 though, and it's common knowledge xbone has a weaker gpu.
Also when I say 60 I mean a locked 60 which even PCars can't maintain when everything is happening. Like Halo MCC claims its 60 fps but it's easy to tell when it drops to low 50s in campaign.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

The X1 does have less power than the PS4 when it comes to GPU. Since it is the GPU that is highely responsible for these graphical effects. Having more CPU power will likely do little to maintain a stable frame rate (especially when you increase core count and not cycle rate). Also I doubt DX12 has much to do with the X1 beyond marketing. It already uses a very low level API developed by the people that made the hardware itself (amd).

Better SDKs, refinements to the engine, and more time to spend weighing the tradeoffs between techniques will be the difference maker here. Perhaps they will be able to add night easy enough. I also look to see much better graphics with FM6 vs 5.

But with rain comes a whole new problem, that perhaps those extra CPU cores would be useful for. Physics. I'd like rain physics to be more than just the same surface with slightly less traction. I think T10 feels the same and that's why they haven't implemented that.

But personally, I'd take rally racing (Forza Motorsports style as opposed to Horizons style) over all that any day.

We will see when more is revealed, but the Xbox One has some tricks up its sleeve still, as there are still NDA's regarding the Xbox One.

I doubt it's 1080 though, and it's common knowledge xbone has a weaker gpu.
Also when I say 60 I mean a locked 60 which even PCars can't maintain when everything is happening. Like Halo MCC claims its 60 fps but it's easy to tell when it drops to low 50s in campaign.

The miltiplayer is 60FPS, the campaign is not. This has been known since the game released.

 

[SlyNine]

We will see when more is revealed, but the Xbox One has some tricks up its sleeve still, as there are still NDA's regarding the Xbox One..

When more about what is reviled? NDAs about what? sources?

Sure the X1 has tricks up its sleeve. The same ones every console has, as devs get more familiar with it they will make much better looking games.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

When more about what is reviled? NDAs about what? sources?

Sure the X1 has tricks up its sleeve. The same ones every console has, as devs get more familiar with it they will make much better looking games.

Look up Red Dragon on YT. watch some of his newest stuff. We still dont know how the esRam will be utilized.

 

[katpeeler]

Graphicsblahblahblah, powerblahblahblah, shiney new carblahblahblah


I want private lobbies and auction house back

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

We will see when more is revealed, but the Xbox One has some tricks up its sleeve still, as there are still NDA's regarding the Xbox One.


The miltiplayer is 60FPS, the campaign is not. This has been known since the game released.

It drops a lot on stone town when I play big team on there.

 

[Speedster911]

Well, slower RAM on the X1 is not a good sign by any measure. GPU power is what gives you great particle effects while pumping out high frame rates.

As one of you said, down to the games released on either console. But if PS4 continues to make better-looking multi-plat games at higher frame rates, it's a peek into the future, and it's going to be a tough call to decide which one to get.

I think I'm ready to move on from the get *this* console only for *xyz* exclusive mindset.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

The miltiplayer is 60FPS, the campaign is not. This has been known since the game released.

Has it? It's the first I've heard of it.

 

[mister dog]

Even if the Xbone has to admit the PS4 is it's superior in terms of power, the Forza franchise more than makes up for that, especially seeing PD is failing as a competitor on Sony's machine.

I never really saw the big difference between 30fps and 60fps, so for me (but that's just me), i wouldn't mind if they lowered the framerate in order to produce more exciting goodies like dynamic weather/ day night transitions, a rally mode (although i think they will leave that piece of the pie exclusively for the FH series), improved steering animations and more circuits.

 

[Speedster911]

@mister dog Right yea, all of that would be super-uber-awesome, but you won't feel the physics as well with 30 fps, believe me. Unless you're TV has those bizarre motion enhancements.. even in that case, we'll be introducing lag.

 

[fortbo]

@mister dog Right yea, all of that would be super-uber-awesome, but you won't feel the physics as well with 30 fps, believe me. Unless you're TV has those bizarre motion enhancements.. even in that case, we'll be introducing lag.

I thought framerate has nothing to do with the physics.

 

[Speedster911]

I thought framerate has nothing to do with the physics.

It does my friend.. the more frames you have.. the better the game is able to 'update' the cycles which are conveying physics to the user. That's the best way I can put it.

Without this fast refresh (60 fps does the trick), you would not be able to feel the physics as much. Why do you think the fighting action in Tekken is so fluid and responsive?

 

[UKMikey]

As I understand it the physics recalc rate in Forza games is faster than the video frame refresh rate and is in the order of 360Hz regardless of game.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-forza-horizon

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

That DX12 demo gives hope for keeping Forza 6 at 60fps from the press event.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

Has it? It's the first I've heard of it.

Because you dont keep up.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Because you dont keep up.

The fact that I do keep is the reason I'm questioning your statement

 

[Igano]

60 fps are smoother to the eye and gives you better reaction because of that. Just a tiny advantage but once you get used to it, you never want to go back to 30 fps

 

[GranTurismo guy]

60 fps are smoother to the eye and gives you better reaction because of that. Just a tiny advantage but once you get used to it, you never want to go back to 30 fps

I wouldn't say never, i was ok with fh2, but recently I have appreciated more that 60 fps just looks nicer and more real.

 

[GTPVenomZombie]

Cannot wait!! Best news of 2015. (yet) lol.

 

[mister dog]

60 fps are smoother to the eye and gives you better reaction because of that. Just a tiny advantage but once you get used to it, you never want to go back to 30 fps

@digiprost recently uploaded a comparison video, I simply cannot tell the difference really:

 

[BoneSawTX]

play the two and you will. Going from FH2 since it released and back to FM5 last week, I could see and feel it.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

@digiprost recently uploaded a comparison video, I simply cannot tell the difference really:

You won't unless you're using chrome or safari

 

[mister dog]

You won't unless you're using chrome or safari

Well even if one does notice the difference, it's not really an "in your face" handicap having to settle for 30fps if it means extra eyecandy and goodies. I almost need a magnifying glass here

 

[ImaRobot]

@digiprost recently uploaded a comparison video, I simply cannot tell the difference really:

You wont be able to tell from a video. IIRC youtube is locked to a certain FPS, no? I know there was something recent that lets you select 60fps, but its not for every video.

Well even if one does notice the difference, it's not really an "in your face" handicap having to settle for 30fps if it means extra eyecandy and goodies. I almost need a magnifying glass here

It becomes very noticable when switching from one game with 30fps to another with 60fps. Switching between Horizon 2 and FM5 was a bit odd and I noticed it right away.