Forza Motorsport 3

[H3avyM3tal]

So after spending more time with the game, I came to a conclusion that it is a great game. Honestly, it has nothing that important to set it up above GT4 even, although the improvements are nice. It still feel GT-ish when I am racing, which is what this is all about. I have many complaints, mostly nitpicking, because I still feel I am playing a clone GT game. Nothing wrong about it, it's just nothing that makes me say 'wow GT must have this and that' (I can count those must have things on one hand, but that is just my opinion).

Great game

 

[slackbladder]

This is a very odd game to me. On the one hand it does a great job with the physics then ruins it with unrealistic car performances. Example. I took the Ford Mustang Boss 429 out for a spin. I was expecting it handle quite rough, lot's of wheel spin, rolling through corners etc. In fact it was a very well behaved car. No wheel spin (and I tried) and universally good grip (this is on Laguna Seca too and obviously with no driving aids at all). And then there are the brakes. My 100-0 time in a 1970 Mustang was 4 seconds! Blimey! Impressive and of course unrealistic.
Funnily enough 4 seconds from 100-0 seems to be the average for a lot of cars. I tried it with the Jaguar XJ220, the Ford GT500 and the Dodge Ram. Again approximately 4 seconds for 100-0. As a reference the Ultima GTR can go from 100-0 in 3.6 seconds. http://www.gizmag.com/go/5832/
The bottom line here is I feel Forza is too easy. Cars that should be a challenge to drive just aren't. It's almost as if Turn 10 didn't want to frighten very casual players who have never played a sim racing game before.
As much as I like the game it is a little too sim-lite for me. I guess for some that's fine. And, for now, it'll make do.

 

[crooky369]

This is a very odd game to me. On the one hand it does a great job with the physics then ruins it with unrealistic car performances. Example. I took the Ford Mustang Boss 429 out for a spin. I was expecting it handle quite rough, lot's of wheel spin, rolling through corners etc. In fact it was a very well behaved car. No wheel spin (and I tried) and universally good grip (this is on Laguna Seca too and obviously with no driving aids at all). And then there are the brakes. My 100-0 time in a 1970 Mustang was 4 seconds! Blimey! Impressive and of course unrealistic.
Funnily enough 4 seconds from 100-0 seems to be the average for a lot of cars. I tried it with the Jaguar XJ220, the Ford GT500 and the Dodge Ram. Again approximately 4 seconds for 100-0. As a reference the Ultima GTR can go from 100-0 in 3.6 seconds. http://www.gizmag.com/go/5832/
The bottom line here is I feel Forza is too easy. Cars that should be a challenge to drive just aren't. It's almost as if Turn 10 didn't want to frighten very casual players who have never played a sim racing game before.
As much as I like the game it is a little too sim-lite for me. I guess for some that's fine. And, for now, it'll make do.

For serious sales you can't just pander to the proper sim crowd, I personally find the breaking quite hard in some cars and going online you see a lot of other people are the same. Like you say Forza is a "sim-lite" and so is GT for me these games provide enough depth but still retain sufficient accessibility that me and people who don't normally buy racing games can still enjoy.

 

[Bogie 19th]

This is a very odd game to me. On the one hand it does a great job with the physics then ruins it with unrealistic car performances. Example. I took the Ford Mustang Boss 429 out for a spin. I was expecting it handle quite rough, lot's of wheel spin, rolling through corners etc. In fact it was a very well behaved car. No wheel spin (and I tried) and universally good grip (this is on Laguna Seca too and obviously with no driving aids at all). And then there are the brakes. My 100-0 time in a 1970 Mustang was 4 seconds! Blimey! Impressive and of course unrealistic.

Ok, this post is the one that has finally set me over the edge. I continue to read post after post of how everyone has these cars with all this magical grip. I am seriously starting to wonder .... and I am not kidding....if I got a different copy of Forza than everyone else.

This poster was not able to get any wheel spin, running on expert, no body movement, and was able to stop on a dime, while at Laguna using the 429.

For me, my experience in testing this scenario was completely the opposite. Using my MS wheel, I went into Free Play, Hot Lap at Laguna, and chose the 429, running expert settings (but changed the clutch/manual to manual only) and did not upgrade or tune.

What I get is the below video. I just hit the gas to the floor and the rest is history. You will also see the large amount of body movement in my braking from 50mph and when I take back off from 50 mph (plenty of dive).

So is there something I am missing that is giving everyone but me all this "grip"? Because if so, I would like to know. I wish I had more grip (I am not the best driver).

 

[Delphic Reason]

This is a very odd game to me. On the one hand it does a great job with the physics then ruins it with unrealistic car performances. Example. I took the Ford Mustang Boss 429 out for a spin. I was expecting it handle quite rough, lot's of wheel spin, rolling through corners etc. In fact it was a very well behaved car. No wheel spin (and I tried) and universally good grip (this is on Laguna Seca too and obviously with no driving aids at all). And then there are the brakes. My 100-0 time in a 1970 Mustang was 4 seconds! Blimey! Impressive and of course unrealistic.
Funnily enough 4 seconds from 100-0 seems to be the average for a lot of cars. I tried it with the Jaguar XJ220, the Ford GT500 and the Dodge Ram. Again approximately 4 seconds for 100-0. As a reference the Ultima GTR can go from 100-0 in 3.6 seconds. http://www.gizmag.com/go/5832/
The bottom line here is I feel Forza is too easy. Cars that should be a challenge to drive just aren't. It's almost as if Turn 10 didn't want to frighten very casual players who have never played a sim racing game before.
As much as I like the game it is a little too sim-lite for me. I guess for some that's fine. And, for now, it'll make do.

I would say you just about hit the nail on the head, as it were.

 

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm not so sure how people are not able to get any wheelspin. All the RWD 'A' class and above cars I have driven spin up with no effort at all, even slight application of the throttle causes it in 3rd gear and below. The R3's usually have masses of lift-off oversteer and are sideways more than they are straight (I don't know if tuning can make them more driveable), you can spin them out of corners in 3rd gear without even trying.

The 4WD cars tend not to spin (but that's not too surprising).

Maybe another hidden perk of having the LCE is wheelspin XD

 

[Bogie 19th]

I should have mentioned that as well. The RWD cars spin more than they grip in my experience.

 

[Tenacious D]

Ok, this post is the one that has finally set me over the edge.

I know it vexes you when people criticize your little idol.

But you have to face the fact that this is basically a stolen concept, and with this incarnation, is being proclaimed as bigger than Jesus by Turn 10. On home GT turf, you have to expect some slights. Some people savage it pretty badly, but a number of people have been pretty mild in their criticism, and all things considered have been fairly generous. In fact, being called sim-lite is something of a compliment for a PC sim game. Prologue gets the same treatment from me, and I love the thing.

It also doesn't help that you either don't understand exactly what certain people have said in posts or are making things up. Like I've mentioned that GT4 has the ability to shift the weight balance of the cars, but Forza doesn't have it. You insisted that it does at least twice. Well, I checked, and sure enough, even in FW3, you can't change the mass balance of the car. This isn't brake balance, or weight reduction, but actually moving weight around from front to back. Not there. Well, unless the race cars have this feature, but in GT4, it's every car, and I suspect will be the same in GT5.

You've said that cars definitely rolled around in the F3 demo. Well, once again, no they don't. They will kneel and rear back, but not lean side to side to any but the slightest bit, just like the previous Forzas. But with the game itself, it's there. A little less than in Prologue, but not enough to quibble over.

Now I will grant you that the "no wheel spin at all" remarks were a little odd, especially on an old Mustang, but any time someone makes an "I don't know..." post, you're pretty quick to defend what seems like a girlfriend. I know Jenius even gave me a barb when I mentioned that sport and race tires only come in one flavor this time, vs the variety of makes offered in FM2, saying something like, "You should play the game before making any posts on the subject so you'll know what you're talking about." Which of course was silly of him because I was spot on in my post.

You die hards are just going to have to get used to the idea that most of us won't have the warmest regards to Forza 3. Gee whiz, if we acted like the folk at the Forza forums do to Gran Turismo, I doubt you'd hang around.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I know it vexes you when people criticize your little idol.

But you have to face the fact that this is basically a stolen concept, and with this incarnation, is being proclaimed as bigger than Jesus by Turn 10. On home GT turf, you have to expect some slights. Some people savage it pretty badly, but a number of people have been pretty mild in their criticism, and all things considered have been fairly generous. In fact, being called sim-lite is something of a compliment for a PC sim game. Prologue gets the same treatment from me, and I love the thing.

It also doesn't help that you either don't understand exactly what certain people have said in posts or are making things up. Like I've mentioned that GT4 has the ability to shift the weight balance of the cars, but Forza doesn't have it. You insisted that it does at least twice. Well, I checked, and sure enough, even in FW3, you can't change the mass balance of the car. This isn't brake balance, or weight reduction, but actually moving weight around from front to back. Not there. Well, unless the race cars have this feature, but in GT4, it's every car, and I suspect will be the same in GT5.

You've said that cars definitely rolled around in the F3 demo. Well, once again, no they don't. They will kneel and rear back, but not lean side to side to any but the slightest bit, just like the previous Forzas. But with the game itself, it's there. A little less than in Prologue, but not enough to quibble over.

Now I will grant you that the "no wheel spin at all" remarks were a little odd, especially on an old Mustang, but any time someone makes an "I don't know..." post, you're pretty quick to defend what seems like a girlfriend. I know Jenius even gave me a barb when I mentioned that sport and race tires only come in one flavor this time, vs the variety of makes offered in FM2, saying something like, "You should play the game before making any posts on the subject so you'll know what you're talking about." Which of course was silly of him because I was spot on in my post.

You die hards are just going to have to get used to the idea that most of us won't have the warmest regards to Forza 3. Gee whiz, if we acted like the folk at the Forza forums do to Gran Turismo, I doubt you'd hang around.

Now you know how it feels talking to you. My reply about you would be the exact same, but swapping the two games around. (btw, I disagree with the majority of your reply, but as usual...you are entitled to your opinion).

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, I finally won a couple of race cars so I'll see if Weight Balance is a parameter in the tuning list, but on street cars it's definitely not there.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Now you know how it feels talking to you. My reply about you would be the exact same, but swapping the two games around. (btw, I disagree with the majority of your reply, but as usual...you are entitled to your opinion).

You need to try to understand some of us. We do not critisize F3 because it is bad or anything - far from it. I bouth the F3 bundle just for this game, as it is a great game, top class. However, most of us, if not all, have already experienced the game that made Forza a reailty, while you have not. So it is not without the realm of possibilities that we have a different opinion of the game. To me it looks like you try too hard to defend the game, as if we are all trashing it and saying GT is 100% better.

Well let me tell you that is not the reason. We know what this game has to offer, and we, I, look at this game like Dan G said it is. And I just don't see what he sees. That is not contradicting that this game is amazing. Not by a long shot.

 

[MustangSVT]

I'm not so sure how people are not able to get any wheelspin. All the RWD 'A' class and above cars I have driven spin up with no effort at all, even slight application of the throttle causes it in 3rd gear and below. The R3's usually have masses of lift-off oversteer and are sideways more than they are straight (I don't know if tuning can make them more driveable), you can spin them out of corners in 3rd gear without even trying.

The 4WD cars tend not to spin (but that's not too surprising).

Maybe another hidden perk of having the LCE is wheelspin XD

I find the same as well. The RWD A Class cars I have can spin out very easily, even cars such as Lexus IS F and BMW M3 GTR. I don't know what that poster is talking about, I definitely think the Boss 429 Mustang is a handful to drive.

 

[DrTrouserPlank]

Had some good R3 races online. I'm still learning the braking points for some track-car combos so some of it is a bit of an adventure. Some people at least make an effort to drive clean, others do pile into the first corner hard, whether that's a massive lock up or intentional I couldn't say for sure, although given the closing speeds involved I'd say it was intentional.

 

[Bogie 19th]

You need to try to understand some of us. We do not critisize F3 because it is bad or anything - far from it. I bouth the F3 bundle just for this game, as it is a great game, top class. However, most of us, if not all, have already experienced the game that made Forza a reailty, while you have not. So it is not without the realm of possibilities that we have a different opinion of the game. To me it looks like you try too hard to defend the game, as if we are all trashing it and saying GT is 100% better.

Well let me tell you that is not the reason. We know what this game has to offer, and we, I, look at this game like Dan G said it is. And I just don't see what he sees. That is not contradicting that this game is amazing. Not by a long shot.

No, believe me, I do understand us. I accept others opinions, no doubt. I don't see why I wouldn't, as I would expect them to accept mine. It's really that simple.

Yes, we do know what the game has to offer, and it's been great. Just like GT is great. So, I guess I don't know where you are going with this. I can praise and critique Forza and I can praise and critique GT, and I have done both with both titles. I just don't see a reason to dedicate myself to one series over the other. I love all racing sims.

 

[Tenacious D]

To me it looks like you try too hard to defend the game, as if we are all trashing it and saying GT is 100% better.

Well let me tell you that is not the reason. We know what this game has to offer, and we, I, look at this game like Dan G said it is. And I just don't see what he sees. That is not contradicting that this game is amazing. Not by a long shot.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's natural that people will have their faves.

Gran Turismo has a history spanning 12 years now, and most of us here have grown up with at least a part of that evolution. I played it from the first game back in 1998, and it's such a good series, it's natural that millions of fans will consider it a landmark in racing games. Just like Forza has in its short life with its fans. This is GTPlanet. Between human nature and statistics, it's only natural that we're going to lay claim to a certain title. And hey, I've been doing a bit of evangelizing about Forza 3 here, which I'm sure is not the case the other way on those other boards. I'm not sure it's even allowed to last for more than a post. Well, except I'm forgetting that Forzacentral is a bit different and does have its GT suburb.

 

[MowTin]

Just wanted to say, I played this game like a crack addict this weekend. I don't know how many hours I put into it. I'm in a honeymoon period with this game.

FINALLY, a racing game that works well online.

I like that you can vote to kick people. I like how you get into a lobby and you can just stay there all day racing with the same group of people. I like the track rotation and how you can vote to skip maps. I hope GT5 copies all of this.

I've been sticking to B-class races.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Is the AI on hard mode too good? It looks to me like it is way too fast for me, even with the same car. I am not the best driver out there though, but on normal I blow the AI out of the water my self. Seems like normal is easy and hard is friggin impossible at times.

Or is it just me?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Is the AI on hard mode too good? It looks to me like it is way too fast for me, even with the same car. I am not the best driver out there though, but on normal I blow the AI out of the water my self. Seems like normal is easy and hard is friggin impossible at times.

Or is it just me?

For me, the hard AI is too difficult for it to be fun. I can win, sometimes, but it's frustrating for me. I too am not the best driver, so I am happy with medium AI.

 

[Terronium-12]

Is the AI on hard mode too good? It looks to me like it is way too fast for me, even with the same car. I am not the best driver out there though, but on normal I blow the AI out of the water my self. Seems like normal is easy and hard is friggin impossible at times.

Or is it just me?

I find the AI to be aggressively dumb on any difficulty setting, I've won a couple of races on hard and it really isn't the difficult....the problem is they're (the AI) even more bumper and pit maneuver happy, you're both better off leaving the AI on medium.

Believe me.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

I find the AI to be aggressively dumb on any difficulty setting, I've won a couple of races on hard and it really isn't the difficult....the problem is they're (the AI) even more bumper and pit maneuver happy, you're both better off leaving the AI on medium.

Believe me.

You must be extremely good at this game, since unless I am using a better car than the AI, I can barely win, if any. If I take the same car as the AI, lets say a Subaru STI, the AI's car is noticably faster on hard...

 

[Tenacious D]

Like Bogie, I'm not the best at Forza, but Hard does seem... inordinately hard. I don't know if the bots get a performance boost, but it does seem that it's a struggle to keep up with the same car (leading) on hard. And yeah, I'm with Terronium. I play on medium and just get as far away from those tards as I can. At least until I clear the game. I want to get some cars levelled and I don't have a small eternity to blow only on Forza.

 

[MustangSVT]

You must be extremely good at this game, since unless I am using a better car than the AI, I can barely win, if any. If I take the same car as the AI, lets say a Subaru STI, the AI's car is noticably faster on hard...

I can usually beat the AI on hard as well. Keep in mind that I upgrade my car to the PI limit of the class and I tune my cars as well (although I'm not even close to being good on the leaderboards )

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Ah, well that kinda reasureing(sp?!)... I can manage to beat it aswell with upgrading to the max PI, but it annoys me that without upgrading the AI's viper is faster than my viper, while both are in the same PI...

I think this is one of the things I prefer in GT, as in the AI on level 10 just drives almost perfectly, and I with the same car need to drive like the AI to keep up at times
In forza they are simply faster.

Edit:

BTW, do add me to your list, any of you

 

[Terronium-12]

BTW, do add me to your list, any of you

Really starting to build up a GTP-esque friend list on Live.

 

[Eric.]

I play on Hard and I've rarely had issues with the AI being unfairly fast. They have excellent throttle control out of corners (or TCS, both?) and that's mainly where I would lose time in a fast RWD that steps out on me. I actually make up most of my time with late braking. I've noticed I have really, really good brake control, even against people online. I did find that the R3 races are very hard with the new BMW GTR GT2 car. I had to bump-pass the F430GT and then spend the rest of the race blocking his passes to stay out front...Not a competitive car. I then bought the GT2 Viper and had no issues having a good race.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I actually make up most of my time with late braking.

That is the only way I can win races on the most difficult levels in FM, Race Pro or GT5p. I always have to brake unrealistically late, many times overshooting the corner.

 

[DrTrouserPlank]

That is the only way I can win races on the most difficult levels in FM, Race Pro or GT5p. I always have to brake unrealistically late, many times overshooting the corner.

A tactic used by some (bad) online players who always seem to involve you in their accident.

Still liking the online personally. It's amazing how much more performance you can get out of, say, 30PI. Explains why I was having trouble.

Still racing the R3's and people are fairly well behaved in the circuits categories, other than the guy who weaved all the way down the straight on circuit de la sarthe to stop me passing him.

 

[Bogie 19th]

A tactic used by some (bad) online players who always seem to involve you in their accident.

Online, I always brake way early. I tire of the clowns that all race to the first turn (and many turns after), only to pile up. So, I just let them all crash or take that turn before me. I take my sweet time. Once they are all in their pile behind me, then I head out for the races!

Online I race as you should, it's offline against AI where I feel the need to brake late.

 

[DrTrouserPlank]

Online, I always brake way early. I tire of the clowns that all race to the first turn (and many turns after), only to pile up. So, I just let them all crash or take that turn before me. I take my sweet time. Once they are all in their pile behind me, then I head out for the races!

Online I race as you should, it's offline against AI where I feel the need to brake late.

Fair enough. The early braking, or making sure there is no-one directly behind you going into the first corner is always a good tactic when you have just joined a new lobby. Try to work out who the clean racers are, who the rammers are, and who the fast but reckless drivers are before you commit yourself to any course of action.

I race clean (as much as I can except for lock-ups due to running no aids online) and always compete in the top 3, generally I find the people at the front work by the same rules. The skill is surviving the first half-lap to be in contention for a position.

 

[icelt]

I did find that the R3 races are very hard with the new BMW GTR GT2 car. I had to bump-pass the F430GT and then spend the rest of the race blocking his passes to stay out front...Not a competitive car. I then bought the GT2 Viper and had no issues having a good race.

I assume you mean the "stock" R3 GT2, 'cause I found the storefront tuned #92 M3 GT2 (makes it 794 I believe) to be devishly fast . Well except for the ovals.

On the hard vs medium topic, IMHO tuning your car to the max PI for the given race pretty effectively neuters the CPU's advantage on hard. Although I must admit the CPU is pretty dang quick regardless in the stock A590 Z06. Even in an A600 car I've seen the Z06 fill up a little more of the rear view than I'd prefer