Forza Motorsport 3

[aspect8]

Eric: A few people with early copies have said that while the audio has been improved an enormous amount, the changes in sound between exhaust levels is gone. Of course, a few other people have said the changes are still there. Guess we'll have to wait until someone posts a definitive answer. To be honest I wouldn't mind if it's gone. I used to hate juggling PI when an exhaust would give you 2hp too much so I had to take Fuel or something instead and my car sounded like a vacuum cleaner.

Autorevving is present in the demo, where the game revs the car for you as the camera swoops around at the start of a race. It will be in place for single player career races as well. I hope they patch in an option to turn the whole lot off, as I don't like it, but it's only a minor annoyance.

How does a 100hz set have any effect on a game running 60fps (60hz)?

The same way it affects a 24fps tv or movie source, by interpolating extra frames for smoothness.

 

[Eric.]

Eric: A few people with early copies have said that while the audio has been improved an enormous amount, the changes in sound between exhaust levels is gone. Of course, a few other people have said the changes are still there. Guess we'll have to wait until someone posts a definitive answer. To be honest I wouldn't mind if it's gone. I used to hate juggling PI when an exhaust would give you 2hp too much so I had to take Fuel or something instead and my car sounded like a vacuum cleaner.

Autorevving is present in the demo, where the game revs the car for you as the camera swoops around at the start of a race. It will be in place for single player career races as well. I hope they patch in an option to turn the whole lot off, as I don't like it, but it's only a minor annoyance.


The same way it affects a 24fps tv or movie source, by interpolating extra frames for smoothness.

I see, hadn't heard the first thing, and wasn't sure what you were referring to about autorevving. I agree that is annoying...

 

[Nigo]

I just hope the driving experience will be more rewarding that it is in the demo
and I'll kill the first one who tell me to buy a wheel

 

[Jay]

Except that exhaust note doesn't change with exhaust upgrades, auto revving, and no wheelies.

@ no wheelies: Really!? What happened with that wheelie in that trailer then?

 

[TBR 427]

implying that something shown in a trailer released by T10/MS is possible in-game

Wouldn't hold my breath pal.

Trailers like those we saw for F3 were good at generating hype...but not much else with regards to the game (especially visuals and physics).

Mind you the physics does seem to be an evolution of that from F2, so you *might* be able to wheelie things like you could in that game.

whether that'd be good or not in a drag race, is somewhat questionable though.

 

[Jay]

Wouldn't hold my breath pal.

Trailers like those we saw for F3 were good at generating hype...but not much else with regards to the game (especially visuals and physics).

Mind you the physics does seem to be an evolution of that from F2, so you *might* be able to wheelie things like you could in that game.

whether that'd be good or not in a drag race, is somewhat questionable though.

Hah I was looking for where I made that post you quoted then realised you changed my words.

The reason I was suprised is turn 10 did say a couple times you can do wheelies, not just going by the trailer.

 

[TBR 427]

Hah I was looking for where I made that post you quoted then realised you changed my words.

The reason I was suprised is turn 10 did say a couple times you can do wheelies, not just going by the trailer.

well weelies are a tricky thing, especially when:
a)they're sustained for more than 0.5 seconds
b)the car lands smoothly afterwards, which implies
c)it isn't due to changing gear, in which case the instant lack of power to the rears would bring the front down at (a conservative estimate of) 25km/h
d)you're in a road car

Of course, it's made easier when those are canceled out by
a) loose moon gravity
b) smooth soft gravity
c) see above, or perhaps the fake hemi just runs out of grunt at 4000rpm
d) it has every single power and grip increasing mod, just that none of them result in anything being visibly different.

But then again, T10 did say that they also made the best looking and most realistic sim...and that Photomode had been improved (then quietly announced a 100kb limit on photos....that have to be uploaded and cannot be transfered by USB from the game itself), and it would have a good video mode and so on and so forth.


Basically the only way they could have failed marketing more was if they tried to use Natal with it.

Ever wondered what the bottom of a Porsche 911 looks like?

BAM

 

[Chronos]

This is what I don't like about forza. The floating and simple track model.

[YOUTUBEhd]wc9MTkXSmHs[/YOUTUBEhd]

[YOUTUBEhd]5siD3zszThQ[/YOUTUBEhd]

Watch the second video. Notice how the car fails to even follow the drop and kinks of the track and just skims/floats over it. The actual invisible track looks so basic.

I played GT5P for 2 years watched many replays and not seen it. Maybe I could find a fraction of it if I spent weeks looking on my HDTV. Forza I notice it in every poxy video. From above I can see the simple movements and know its just floating along a simple track model.

All this hype about physics calculations of Forza 3 and hyping it along side PC sims looks silly when the cars don't conform to the track, even simple undulations. GT5P plays very accurate, and cars moving accordingly, much more movement and car giving way to the track. The game engine is very impressive and cars look and feel connected. Even if GT5p had a floating problem, the actual car movement across the track model seems to have more range and more fidelity to the modeling.

Now GT1-GT4 had this problem with GT4 being better than old GT's. GT2-3 I seen it a lot but thats some old low power console. I expect GT5 and FM3 to be more advanced.

 

[TBR 427]

That just plain shouldn't be happening.

And the Toyota doesn't look all that flash either. The window and roof is way off the real thing, it appears to be missing lights and the nose...just isn't there.


Don't get me wrong, F3 may well be fun for many gamers, but where they've cut corners is starting to show a lot.

 

[Joey D]

Don't get me wrong, F3 may well be fun for many gamers, but where they've cut corners is starting to show a lot.

If you nitpick anything flaws will show up in great number. I'm sure I could sit down with any game and go over it with a fine tooth comb and come up with a zillion things wrong with it.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Signal lights not working is nitpicking.
Floating cars is just damn wrong.

Cockpit camera is too close is nitpicking.
Floating cars is just damn wrong.

Graphics not the same as in the pictures is nitpicking.
Floating cars is just damn wrong.

See where I am going here? I am sorry for being sarcastic here, but there are some things that are just not ok. Sure, it may not break the game, but there ARE things that are important enough to get the negative feedback, in both games. How can you suggest that there is no merit to criticize a game that is marketed as the 2nd coming of christ and the damnation of the other game?

BTW, nitpicking does not ruin a game - it just shows less-important aspects of something with great importance to us. When used to combat opposite games it is indeed lame, but when used to criticize the ones who made them - I think it is very acceptable.

 

[phil_2001]

Dan is good for an actor. He has some actorish looks and I like watching him, less I like what he talks in the end, he's good for playing the bad guy in a Hollywood movie. I am not gay btw lol.. I am saying this out of observation. But how he is playing with words in front of PD is pretty ugly I'd say. Plus I already know Forza 2 generally has the same flaws as all the sim games out there that I've tried. It's the "weight of the car" feeling. It doesn't even look realistic. In this sense Gran Turismo is a leap ahead beacause it handles more realistic to me. The weight thing in GT is very believable, very precise and no other game can compare period, even those based on ISI engine like rFactor and GTR and so on. In my opinion best GT competitor in terms of realism is Live For Speed.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I wonder how much they paid him for that interview

👎

Again...I love how close his real time is in real life racing on that track and to his time using FM3 to race the same track. Holy crap..they are dead on.

There is something CG about the showroom cars, and it is quite cheeky of T10 to use Prologue's same style, and evidently even the same view sequence - sorry Bogie, but others can have other opinions than yours, and have valid reasons for them.

No doubt, I agree 100%. Turn 10 has ripped GT5's UI element there, just like PD has ripped off Turn 10 in some areas. Not that it matters. It's a good thing actually.

As for the Nurburgring and elevation changes, the F2 Nurb wasn't all that remarkable to me compared to the GT4 version, looked the same elevation wise, so we'll see. Sure wasn't accurate though.

I have never been on the real ring, and I have never played the ring in a GT game. I have only seen the ring driven on TV and videos, and played on it in FM2. It looks pretty good to me in FM2. I can't say if it's accurate or not, but it's fun as heck.

Except that exhaust note doesn't change with exhaust upgrades, auto revving, and no wheelies.

I can't confirm wheelies (though Turn 10 has released a video of a car doing a wheelie), but the exhaust note does indeed change with upgrades. I played FM3 this past weekend finally (Microsoft had an "Entertainment" meeting at our Hilton hotel this weekend, and had full FM3 kiosks setup). Autorevving is also present.

Signal lights not working is nitpicking.
Floating cars is just damn wrong.

Cockpit camera is too close is nitpicking.
Floating cars is just damn wrong.

Graphics not the same as in the pictures is nitpicking.
Floating cars is just damn wrong.

I haven't noticed this in my play time so far, but then again. I am in cockpit view when I race and I have never felt any floating.

 

[Scaff]

I have never been on the real ring, and I have never played the ring in a GT game. I have only seen the ring driven on TV and videos, and played on it in FM2. It looks pretty good to me in FM2. I can't say if it's accurate or not, but it's fun as heck.

I've been to the 'ring, driven it in various games and have to say that the FM/FM2 version is hands down the worst interpretation of the real track.

To be blunt its different enough in both FM and FM2, that for me its not the 'ring at all.


Scaff

 

[Bogie 19th]

I've been to the 'ring, driven it in various games and have to say that the FM/FM2 version is hands down the worst interpretation of the real track.

To be blunt its different enough in both FM and FM2, that for me its not the 'ring at all.


Scaff

I wonder why that is the case?

 

[Scaff]

I wonder why that is the case?

Simple answer, T10 widened the track massively to make it 'better' for on-line racing. That meant that almost all corner apex and radius dimensions changed, as did the track length.

I don't think it was needed (it didn't make it a better track for on-line racing) at all, but that's why it was done. If you have never driven the 'ring outside of FM/FM2, then the track in other games would be a nasty shock I can assure you.


Scaff

 

[Famine]

The oft-posited 'Ring theory of FM is that it was artificially widened and smoothed to allow multiple lines to facilitate online racing. There are, after all, few places to pass on the 'Ring unless the person in front wants to let you go.

It's a good idea - make it less frustrating and more fun. But then you hit the problem of fiddling about with real life tracks. At what point does it stop being the real track? And if you're going to do it in the first place, what's the point, exactly, of licensing the real track at all?

Edit: Yes. That.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Interesting stuff guys. Thanks for the reply. I wonder if they will ever REDUCE the width and bring it back to official spec.

 

[D-Mind]

I'm getting it this friday, yeah!

 

[Terronium-12]

I'm getting it this friday, yeah!

I hate you, yeah!

Nah. I'm kidding. Share some screenies or I will pay you a "visit".

 

[alba]

I'm getting it this friday, yeah!

Same here

 

[Dravonic]

I am in cockpit view when I race...

Then you can answer me something. I've been watching Forza 3 videos, trying to determine if it's a good idea to buy a Xbox to play Forza. I found it really odd that the cars appear to be extremely stiff when in cockpit view. They barely show any tilting to the sides/front/back. Is it the result of some incredibly stiff suspension setting, or the cars are just stiff like that, or I just watched the wrong videos?

It's weird. I don't like weird when I'm talking about spending the equivalent of $600.

 

[Terronium-12]

Same here

Same goes for you then.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Then you can answer me something. I've been watching Forza 3 videos, trying to determine if it's a good idea to buy a Xbox to play Forza. I found it really odd that the cars appear to be extremely stiff when in cockpit view. They barely show any tilting to the sides/front/back. Is it the result of some incredibly stiff suspension setting, or the cars are just stiff like that, or I just watched the wrong videos?

It's weird. I don't like weird when I'm talking about spending the equivalent of $600.

If you are asking about body roll, yes it has body roll. Included in the body roll is tire deformation and they physics (and visuals) that go along with deformation.

 

[amar212]

Playing it for days.

It is great. That good, yes.

Floating cars in replay? Who gives a damn?

Physics is unbelievably convincing, even on the piece of crap called Microsoft Force Feedback wheel. I still can't believe it is the same wheel I used for playing all other X360 driving games.

It delivers something that many other driving games fail to deliver: a proper handling of race cars compared to street cars and beautiful online options.

Heck, even drivers I drove against in few last days were driving fair and honest, which is almost unbelievable. OK, it will go to hell after release, but there are plethora of Private Lobby options for everybody.

Great game, great job done, worth every penny.

I do not want to compare it with GT5 because it does not support G25 wheel and do not want to participate or fuel any craptalk in GTvsForza manner.

Forza Motorsport 3 is a milestone game for Turn10, it delivers great foundations for their future work and it sets some of the standards that competiton still have to catch-up.

We may all presume that future will bring us games that will deliver even more in various fields compared to FM3, but as for now - it is a great driving/racing game.

And with full first hand insight to many small flaw it has - but every game has it - when everything is taken into concern it would be pure and deliberate ignorance to bash such an great overall package as FM3 is.

 

[regnar]

Then you can answer me something. I've been watching Forza 3 videos, trying to determine if it's a good idea to buy a Xbox to play Forza. I found it really odd that the cars appear to be extremely stiff when in cockpit view. They barely show any tilting to the sides/front/back. Is it the result of some incredibly stiff suspension setting, or the cars are just stiff like that, or I just watched the wrong videos?

It's weird. I don't like weird when I'm talking about spending the equivalent of $600.

It seem both Forza & GT are a little bit stiff on the race cars. I think the true handling is bit more bouncy,
but referring to the video, this could also be the particular setup for that course. True handling maybe leans a little more towards
NFS:Shift in that respect, but not as extreme.

Here is Darren Law #45 Flying Lizard, in car ride

 

[Eric.]

Playing it for days.

It is great. That good, yes.

Floating cars in replay? Who gives a damn?

Physics is unbelievably convincing, even on the piece of crap called Microsoft Force Feedback wheel. I still can't believe it is the same wheel I used for playing all other X360 driving games.

It delivers something that many other driving games fail to deliver: a proper handling of race cars compared to street cars and beautiful online options.

Heck, even drivers I drove against in few last days were driving fair and honest, which is almost unbelievable. OK, it will go to hell after release, but there are plethora of Private Lobby options for everybody.

Great game, great job done, worth every penny.

I do not want to compare it with GT5 because it does not support G25 wheel and do not want to participate or fuel any craptalk in GTvsForza manner.

Forza Motorsport 3 is a milestone game for Turn10, it delivers great foundations for their future work and it sets some of the standards that competiton still have to catch-up.

We may all presume that future will bring us games that will deliver even more in various fields compared to FM3, but as for now - it is a great driving/racing game.

And with full first hand insight to many small flaw it has - but every game has it - when everything is taken into concern it would be pure and deliberate ignorance to bash such an great overall package as FM3 is.

Great to hear Amar. Can you tell me whether the steering still feels very assisted with a controller like the demo? If you're not sure what I mean, its the feeling like the controller only lets you steer so far in a turn, which seems to be giving the feeling that the tires have too much grip and you can't steer too far to induce understeer. Maybe its adjustable in the full game?

 

[aspect8]

Amar has already given quite an authoritative response but anyway...

Then you can answer me something. I've been watching Forza 3 videos, trying to determine if it's a good idea to buy a Xbox to play Forza. I found it really odd that the cars appear to be extremely stiff when in cockpit view.

That depends on how much you want to throw yourself into it. If you're willing to put aside it's shortcomings (and every game has them) then I think you'll find there's an amazing racing game there. The reviews bear that out. But the community and customization is where it's at. I can't quite describe it but it always feels good lining up on the grid in a car that I've hand-painted myself over several hours. It gives a sense of ownership that no amount of car washes or oil changes can give. For an idea of what's possible, go here and browse through some of the galleries.

Yes the cockpit view is stiff. It doesn't compare to Shift, but then not much does. I don't use cockpit so it's not a real problem for me. It's quite playable with a controller, but night and day better with a wheel. I suspect you'll be able to get a F3 and wheel bundle soon after launch. But Forza just has so much to do and try. In F2 I maintained a high speed, high grip and balanced car in each class, so that's 15 cars I regularly tuned and raced online. Plus 1 car in each of the 4 R classes. Now that you can paint race cars and upgarde road cars into the R classes I'm going to have to maintain even more cars! And there's more classes too!

Make sure you get an Xbox Live Gold membership to go with it. If you buy a new console you'll get a month free. If not, you can get trials or short subscriptions. Forza really comes alive online.

 

[Dravonic]

If you are asking about body roll, yes it has body roll. Included in the body roll is tire deformation and they physics (and visuals) that go along with deformation.

Yes, I mean body roll. It looks like there's next to none when driving in the cockpit view. I don't know if it's a suspension setting thing, if the cars are just like that, or if it's another thing entirely. That's what I was trying to determine.

Since GT5P has convincing body roll I watched some GT5P videos and they also look awfully stiff. I'm guessing it's a video thing. For some reason body roll doesn't show up in low res videos. Probably because the movement is too subtle.

It seem both Forza & GT are a little bit stiff on the race cars. I think the true handling is bit more bouncy,
but referring to the video, this could also be the particular setup for that course. True handling maybe leans a little more towards
NFS:Shift in that respect, but not as extreme.

Here is Darren Law #45 Flying Lizard, in car ride

*vid*

I already know how the real thing looks like

Amar has already given quite an authoritative response but anyway...

That depends on how much you want to throw yourself into it. If you're willing to put aside it's shortcomings (and every game has them) then I think you'll find there's an amazing racing game there. The reviews bear that out. But the community and customization is where it's at. I can't quite describe it but it always feels good lining up on the grid in a car that I've hand-painted myself over several hours. It gives a sense of ownership that no amount of car washes or oil changes can give. For an idea of what's possible, go here and browse through some of the galleries.

Yes the cockpit view is stiff. It doesn't compare to Shift, but then not much does. I don't use cockpit so it's not a real problem for me. It's quite playable with a controller, but night and day better with a wheel. I suspect you'll be able to get a F3 and wheel bundle soon after launch. But Forza just has so much to do and try. In F2 I maintained a high speed, high grip and balanced car in each class, so that's 15 cars I regularly tuned and raced online. Plus 1 car in each of the 4 R classes. Now that you can paint race cars and upgarde road cars into the R classes I'm going to have to maintain even more cars! And there's more classes too!

Make sure you get an Xbox Live Gold membership to go with it. If you buy a new console you'll get a month free. If not, you can get trials or short subscriptions. Forza really comes alive online.

Thanks for the more in depth response. I'm trying to gather as much info as possible since it's not a cheap buy. I use cockpit view all the time since I got GT5P because it's just too awesome. I can't go back to the simplistic bumper view now. I sure would play it online a lot and the livery editor is great too. Definitely something I like.

Trying to decide if it's worth it or not. I don't know if I will just dump it when GT5 is out, don't know if its worth it buying a console just for the game, a lot of other things. Any more info from anyone is helpful

 

[Joey D]

I find it odd the EU is getting this before the US, actually I'm sort of disappointed.