Forza Motorsport 3

[Terronium-12]

I find it odd the EU is getting this before the US, actually I'm sort of disappointed.

You know what? I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that.

I mean it's not like T10 isn't in, oh, I don't know....The US.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Hehe. Friday, 8:30am, Game, Western Road, Brighton, I shall be queuing at the doors ready and waiting.

I was going to go to the midnight release but realised I wouldnt be able to get home.

 

[Joey D]

You know what? I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that.

I mean it's not like T10 isn't in, oh, I don't know....The US.

Ya, for being a US company it should be release tomorrow here and Friday in the EU. Who knows though, I'm sure it had to do with supply issues and numerous other things.

 

[kamkor]

its the feeling like the controller only lets you steer so far in a turn, which seems to be giving the feeling that the tires have too much grip and you can't steer too far to induce understeer. Maybe its adjustable in the full game?

F3 Demo msff impressions:

You can steer too much with msff wheel and induce understeer. Happens rarely to me as I simply don't steer too much, but most of the people on youtube playing with wheel just turn to the max, understeer trough the corner and then exit the corner. When you steer too much and induce understeer the wheel becomes lighter. Plus there is a tire squeel that screams "i'm understeering".

I actually got hyped and bought msff after playing f3 demo, after being annoyed just like you with pad assists. First i'm going to begin with msff in f2 - steering implementation is horrible. I'm suprised how much it improved in f3 demo. If it sucked in f3 like it does in f2, then I would have sold it straight away. Also playing with pad is probably easier, but now that I'm used to 270 degrees wheel I'm doing better laps with wheel, and most of all - constant times.

It's not a g25, it's a toy wheel, but it's really fun experience to drive - it took me some time to get used to 270 degrees though. Drifting in ferrari feels really good too, can hold steady countersteer. I hope it will be that great to drift with more powerfull drift tuned cars in full game.

 

[kamkor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtMlQw5uC0w

Awesome video, Turn10 have done great job with sounds.

 

[TBR 427]

The oft-posited 'Ring theory of FM is that it was artificially widened and smoothed to allow multiple lines to facilitate online racing. There are, after all, few places to pass on the 'Ring unless the person in front wants to let you go.

It's a good idea - make it less frustrating and more fun. But then you hit the problem of fiddling about with real life tracks. At what point does it stop being the real track? And if you're going to do it in the first place, what's the point, exactly, of licensing the real track at all?

Edit: Yes. That.

I posted earlier (ITT or somewhere else) a long track analysis, specifically the best overtaking places, with times and a link to a GTR Evo hot lap to show locations for overtaking.

As for the point at which it stops being the Nurburgring, check your local architectural copyright ligislation. Because over here (in Aus), the n'ring in F2 is considered different enough that someone could legally register it as a unique design.

Like you said though, what's the point of lisencing it if it's not going to be the real deal? Well, beyond name...nothing.

At the end of the day, the nurburgring should only be driven by drivers with nuts. It should be a fearsome circuit, and while overtaking IS possible in the real-shaped ones, it should also require nuts to do it. It's not a beginners course. It's supposed to be one of the greatest challenges!

You know, the whole "if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" thing. Not T10's "ok you won't even feel warm because we've removed all cooking appliances".

You know what? I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that.

I mean it's not like T10 isn't in, oh, I don't know....The US.

Is MS in charge of release dates for first party devs?

Because they could be the problem here...

 

[Terronium-12]

Is MS in charge of release dates for first party devs?

Because they could be the problem here...

Quite possibly seeing as T10 is an in-house studio.

 

[aspect8]

I read a comment from the devs that they're seeding the game in Aus, Japan and Europe so when the Americans boot it up for the first time they have lots of designs, pics and replays etc waiting for them and ready to go. Who knows why, but I'm happy. Not often we Aussies get things early.

Dravonic, if you do go ahead and take the plunge, let us know on the forums. I'm sure there will be plenty of car swapping and painting etc.

 

[notsofast]

Can't wait til 9am Friday morning, I'll be standing outside my local EB waiting for them to open the doors and then I've got the whole weekend to have some 'quality time' with my copy of forza 3. From what I've seen so far the wait will be worth it.

Two days to go!

 

[Terronium-12]

Can't wait til 9am Friday morning, I'll be standing outside my local EB waiting for them to open the doors and then I've got the whole weekend to have some 'quality time' with my copy of forza 3. From what I've seen so far the wait will be worth it.

Two days to go!

Booo!!! You suck.

 

[Tenacious D]

If you are asking about body roll, yes it has body roll.

No, actually it doesn't. This is a problem inherent with the physics modeling in all three Forzas. They will rear back and kneel a bit, but there's almost no lateral shifting whatsoever. It's like every car behaves laterally as if it has a rock hard racing suspension.

And by the way, I can't find any parameter for distributing the weight balance of the cars like you can in Gran Turismo. Maybe F3 has it, but I don't see it in F1 or 2. Which brings me to this quote.

I am sorry for being sarcastic here, but there are some things that are just not ok. Sure, it may not break the game, but there ARE things that are important enough to get the negative feedback, in both games. How can you suggest that there is no merit to criticize a game that is marketed as the 2nd coming of christ and the damnation of the other game?

BTW, nitpicking does not ruin a game - it just shows less-important aspects of something with great importance to us. When used to combat opposite games it is indeed lame, but when used to criticize the ones who made them - I think it is very acceptable.

There's a problem when a developer goes from hyping their game to flat out lying about how impeccable a sim it is. It does make you want to twist their fingers. It does make you want to put certain people on ignore who can see no wrong with the game or the crappy antics of the dev crew. And when it has gone as far as Dan, Che and others in T10 and the review community to anoint Forza 3 as some sort of messiah of racing games, it deserves all the crap it gets. Just the slightest hint that Kazunori acts like no other racing game exists is enough to light some people's fuses, so, you know, a little bit of even-handedness with your criticism, please.

So about the Forza Nurb' Nordshleife. It looks pretty similar to the same old 13 mile four lane highway in the previous editions. It may surprise you that if you keep the remarks of the definitiveness of Forza to yourselves, I frankly don't care that much. I'm used to it now, so to me it's like a fantasy track. It'll be fun to tear around in and fight for position on, even though I prefer the more accurate Gran Turismo version - dare I say it, the definitive version.

The cars won't roll, whether racers or street rods. Eh... whatever. It doesn't feel as authentic to me, but that's not the same thing as saying it's not fun, which it is. Creating and painting race cars, as aspect8 says, is a complete blast. Okay, photomode is gimped, the replays still look quite basic, but they do seem to be better this time. I'm not sure what to make of the vinyl and decal issues, but as long as there's no shifting, I'll be a happy painter.

As for Dravonic's question, that's a tough call. I bought my Leet just to play Forza 2, and... well, I wouldn't say it was a wise investment necessarily, but with F3, I'm finally getting my second 360 game, and the Forza that should have been made (a few cars short anyway), so it's worth it to me. You need to see if you can find a friend who has one, has at least the MS FFB wheel, and the F3 demo. If you at least find the handling to be acceptable, I'd say you'd enjoy F3, as long as such an outlay isn't keeping you from buying something else for months. Even though I don't like the handling, find the tire sounds to be atrocious - gurgling owl noises - and I don't like any of the driver views, it's going to be great fun creating race cars out of street machines.

And by the way, Terronium, dude, it's just seven days! Well, six now. See? One-seventh the time gone just like that.

 

[Eric.]

About photomode being 100kb...The biggest negative there is keeping the resolution down. The recent pictures we've seen from the BLKJ or whatever "group" were under 100kb, likely the same quality as we'll be taking. And again, short of being a lower resolution, they look pretty darn good. Better than what Che has shown us, that seemed to highlight exactly why we don't care for the lighting being modelled.

 

[Terronium-12]

And by the way, Terronium, dude, it's just seven days! Well, six now. See? One-seventh the time gone just like that.

I know, unfortunately.

I haven't anticipated a game this much since I can remember; I wonder if Gamestop plans on shipping out the pre-orders a day before it's actual release?

 

[aspect8]

There's a problem when a developer goes from hyping their game to flat out lying about how impeccable a sim it is. It does make you want to twist their fingers. It does make you want to put certain people on ignore who can see no wrong with the game or the crappy antics of the dev crew. And when it has gone as far as Dan, Che and others in T10 and the review community to anoint Forza 3 as some sort of messiah of racing games, it deserves all the crap it gets. Just the slightest hint that Kazunori acts like no other racing game exists is enough to light some people's fuses, so, you know, a little bit of even-handedness with your criticism, please.

Where did they lie? They said the had definitive racing game. Definititive does not have to mean perfect. Definitive means a complete, conclusive and superior example. Compare to every other game on the market, is Forza not a complete, superior example of a racing game? A metacritic score of 93 suggests than an awful lot of professional reviewers believe it is. Why does producing a good game that they are proud of and that reviewers rate very highly mean that it "deserves all the crap it gets"?

 

[Tenacious D]

If they said, "We made Forza 3 as good as we could," that would have been the end of it.

Oh, and as for this:

Compare to every other game on the market, is Forza not a complete, superior example of a racing game?

Sorry, but I differ with you on this. FW3 is a good game, even great, but definitive, it isn't.

 

[TBR 427]

If they said, "We made Forza 3 as good as we could," that would have been the end of it.

Oh, and as for this:


Sorry, but I differ with you on this. FW3 is a good game, even great, but definitive, it isn't.

Exactly, a definitive game should be the new benchmark.

A Porsche 911 is the definitive Sports car; it is the benchmark.

Forza just isn't that.

 

[aspect8]

Sorry, but I differ with you on this. FW3 is a good game, even great, but definitive, it isn't.

Exactly, a definitive game should be the new benchmark... Forza just isn't that.

I am really not interested in debating the semantics of a word used in a marketing campaign, or how it makes you mad because you don't agree with it. Perhaps you could take your (many) points of discussion over to a separate thread discussing the faults of the Turn 10 marketing strategy, where it wouldn't clutter up our conversation about the game?

Kamkor: Yes, the sounds in that video are epic! I originally didn't plan on bothering to export any videos but after seeing that video with the stationary camera and the noise just rolling around the mountains I'm definitely going to have to put together something! I think it'd be cool to be able to have an endless AI race using only very few camera shots like that video, and have it as your dashboard instead of the parked car.

As for the pictures, the compression really surprises me. If you're going to allow 30 second 720p clips, then 100kb jpgs are a drop in the ocean next to that. It seems strange... we'll see if they manage to reduce the compression after the launch numbers drop off and they get a better idea of server capacity.

Are there any other Aussies that will be racing online in Forza 3?

 

[Nigo]

Just the slightest hint that Kazunori acts like no other racing game exists is enough to light some people's fuses [...]
And when it has gone as far as Dan, Che and others in T10 and the review community to anoint Forza 3 as some sort of messiah of racing games, it deserves all the crap it gets

yes, and yes
but don't get it wrong it's purely commercial. GT players don't want to know there are others sims around, just to be told that GT is and will always be the best. Turn10 did nothing but stole PD lines. I'm done listening to them

It's quite playable with a controller, but night and day better with a wheel

90% of the players will play with the pad, so "quite playable" isn't what I was expecting. Admit it, on the pad it's way too easy, and accessible to any 8-yo-GT-player. If you think it's the pad fault and you can't have a good driving experience with a pad, just try Shift

I'm sorry, Forza 3 looks like an improved, but casual oriented, Forza 2
the worst thing is, it would be AWESOME if they just added a setting to reduce the assistance

 

[amar212]

I'm sorry, Forza 3 looks like an improved, but "casual oriented", Forza 2

And I'm not sorry to tell you that you're wrong.

One lap with Aston Martin DBR (all assists off, MS wheel) on LaSarthe will show you that "casual" have nothing to do with this game.

Go to Nurburgring - and yes, they've fixed the track up to GT standards up to the almost every detail imaginable - and you'll finaly know why that track is called Green Hell. And you'll also realise what is the reason behind the decision that modern race cars in GT2 class actualy use traction control (through ECU respectfuly) in real life.

 

[Nigo]

- nothing -

 

[MagpieRacer]

And I'm not sorry to tell you that you're wrong.

One lap with Aston Martin DBR (all assists off, MS wheel) on LaSarthe will show you that "casual" have nothing to do with this game.

Go to Nurburgring - and yes, they've fixed the track up to GT standards up to the almost every detail imaginable - and you'll finaly know why that track is called Green Hell. And you'll also realise what is the reason behind the decision that modern race cars in GT2 class actualy use traction control (through ECU respectfuly) in real life.

TEASE! I have taken this weekend off from Friday to play this.

 

[Tenacious D]

I am really not interested in debating the semantics of a word used in a marketing campaign, or how it makes you mad because you don't agree with it. Perhaps you could take your (many) points of discussion over to a separate thread discussing the faults of the Turn 10 marketing strategy, where it wouldn't clutter up our conversation about the game?

I wasn't mentioning T10's marketing in my quote.

 

[aspect8]

There's a problem when a developer goes from hyping their game to flat out lying about how impeccable a sim it is. It does make you want to twist their fingers. It does make you want to put certain people on ignore who can see no wrong with the game or the crappy antics of the dev crew. And when it has gone as far as Dan, Che and others in T10 and the review community to anoint Forza 3 as some sort of messiah of racing games, it deserves all the crap it gets.

So if that's not about Turn 10 marketing, what is it about?

 

[Joey D]

There is already a thread somewhere on Turn 10's marketing, I can't seem to find it though. But really does it matter? Pretty much all companies act high and mighty when it comes to marketing, being citizens of a 2009 world marketing really shouldn't phase us that much any more.

 

[TBR 427]

There is already a thread somewhere on Turn 10's marketing, I can't seem to find it though. But really does it matter? Pretty much all companies act high and mighty when it comes to marketing, being citizens of a 2009 world marketing really shouldn't phase us that much any more.

I started a Digital Multimedia Minor this semester, and advertising plays a major part of my Visual Comunication unit. Here's probably the best thing I've found from it:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=frol02p74&continuous=1
If anyone here is even slightly interested in advertising, and connection or loyalty to a brand or object or whatever, it's really worth checking this out.

Advertising by saying THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST is going out. 10 years time, and it should be no more. Why? Because everyone has the best. What may seem impressive one day won't be the next. Nobody stays objectively at the top for ever, but something else can.

Put into (this) context, Forza 3 may have been THE BEST looking game, with THE BEST physics and THE BEST car choices. That may have been the case in some form at some time through someone's eyes. But everyone says that. And objectively, it's a case of how long until they're not the best, how long until they're mid-pack, how long until they're sub-par. When, not If. Add to that, the competition can scream exactly the same thing, louder and they have the product to back it up. What does that leave? A useless advertising campaign, and a product with very high levels of criticism once something better inevitably comes out.

What they should NOT be doing is aim to make the generic game, and shout the generic advertising drivel.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Great to hear Amar. Can you tell me whether the steering still feels very assisted with a controller like the demo? If you're not sure what I mean, its the feeling like the controller only lets you steer so far in a turn, which seems to be giving the feeling that the tires have too much grip and you can't steer too far to induce understeer. Maybe its adjustable in the full game?

The controllers are programmed with buffers which throw off the steering compared to the wheel. They don't program any buffers in with the wheel.

Dan G said that in an interview this past weekend with Major Nelson:

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MajorNelson/~3/GX1PScN56PI/show-335-forza-motorsport-3-and-more.aspx

You can listen to the interview there. Dan also talks about the tire deformation, the tire wear, the gases in the tire contracting/expanding from heat, and tire wall flex.

No, actually it doesn't.

Yes, actually it does.

 

[aspect8]

This kind of advertising will be gone in 10 years? That's awesome, but it still seems to be the predominant message in marketing today, and this game is coming out today, so....

Seriously guys, go make yourself a marketing thread. I'll be happy to join you and discuss how much we hate American advertising. But this thread is about the game. Not the e3 press conference, not the lead designers beard, but the game.

Hey Amar, have you been playing career? If so, would you mind telling us about it? I always love to hear how people approach these games, which cars they buy and how they upgrade them etc. Also, I noticed on a video that they had upgrades for the car cooling system. How does that work? What effect does it have?

 

[TBR 427]

Hey, F3 and marketing go hand in hand lol...

That's awesome, but it still seems to be the predominant message in marketing today, and this game is coming out today, so...

...it won't be the way tomorrow.

Marketing is about getting your company or product name to a consumer, new or existing.

Imagine a football stadium, where everyone has written their name on a piece of paper and is holding it up. Every now and then, a group have formed, and used their paper collectively.

That is 99% of modern marketing.

And as long as the crowd keeps getting bigger, it's going to fail.

But, back to the vidya.
(I know, talking about a game, god forbid, heavens, oh lawdy, etc)

Are the unlockable cars any good? Or do you get stuck with something useless a lot of the time?

 

[DrTrouserPlank]

Woohoo! My Collectors edition has just been dispatched.

Trouble is though, if it doesn't get here tomorrow I probably won't see it until the following Monday because of the coming postal strikes.

 

[Pebb]

My Forza Motorsport 3 LCE will be arriving on Wednesday.