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Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
- 15,123 comments
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forza.net
- 685
- United Kingdom
You can keep the Featured Multiplayer with it's Ratings.
But ALSO keep the bread and butter Forza Multiplayer experience for people who want a less competitive experience.
- 5,669
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
I had a bunch of questions in their official thread over on FM.net, was hoping some would get answered in the stream but here’s what I could make out:
Sounds like they will, outside of spec racing.
No answer, presumably no.
No.
Yes in timed, no answer on how they finish.
No answer.
Yes.
No answer, presumably no.
Unknown.
Sounded like a no.
Yes.
No, not lap specific.
No answer.
No answer.
No answer.
Sounds like they will, outside of spec racing.
No answer, presumably no.
No.
Yes in timed, no answer on how they finish.
No answer.
Yes.
No answer, presumably no.
Unknown.
Sounded like a no.
Yes.
No, not lap specific.
No answer.
No answer.
No answer.
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- 80
- Canada
no rolling starts is lame
- 758
- Brazil
They said that they will give you the option to rental cars like in FH5, so it means you can race, but you wont able to change setups so cars that have better PI will destroy you in the track.
No awnser but they hinted that the FRR will be able to DQ/Kick certain cars out of the race
I guess you mean Teach?
They said that will have a opening campaing and opening series to make the user get used with the game systems, and then after will give a safety rating and a peformance rating
I think maybe after launch, they seemed that will keep updating the game with new features following the needs of community, kinda like FH5 is doing right now
They said that the new FRR will ML tools to predict when drivers are acting bad, i guess it includes the colision prediction
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- 120
- In my head
- None
- xRowdyBurnsx
I didn’t hear any wheel update as promised which is disappointing. I’m fairly happy other than that. I do hope that the “Open” daily races are more than one class/track. That is what drove me away from GT7. Give me at least two classes with three tracks each and I’ll be happy. Competitive Spec racing just isn’t my thing if I can’t atleast adjust the suspension to handle the way I like.
UKMikey
Premium
- 18,124
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
To be fair Chris Esaki didn't pinky promise but said that it was planned. Maybe they ran out of time as the Horizon update was quite packed this month and might have edged it out.
Hopefully the remaining update will be able to go into wheels and peripherals in a more in-depth fashion or someone will hit him up on Twitter as he seems to be quite responsive to questions on social media.
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- 758
- Brazil
it looks it will be a class by week but like 3/4 different car and track combo by day
UKMikey
Premium
- 18,124
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
Good question but from what he was saying it doesn't sound like it'll be an option otherwise he probably would've made a point to add it as a caveat when talking about their exclusion from the featured races. Would definitely be good to clear it up for community race organisers though.
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- 5,669
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
- Even so, rentals (outside of Featured Multiplayer) don’t allow for a space where people can freely build and test cars in rapid succession. This is something leagues and communities rely on a lot when constructing their championships. It’s not uncommon for somebody to test 10+ cars in a single session, whereas in order to unlock all of those upgrades a player would now need to play for 15-20 hours before they can even begin benchmarking. Even for casual private racing, it’s common for people to frequently swap cars and buy new ones depending on what their friends are driving.
- Same as in Forza Motorsport 7 but hopefully with better logic. Vote-kicking is still important (and was effectively broken in past games) for when somebody is being toxic but not toxic enough to warrant FRR DQs.
- Yes, education 🙂 By teaching players, I mean focused tools and features that laser-focus on skill building instead of passive learning through normal races. Think Circuit Experience and License Tests in GT Sport, or even the famous “sportsmanship” video that @Tom narrates.
- Hopefully, but it’s something that was in Forza Motorsport 6
- I doubt it would auto-ghost like in Forza Horizon 5 however, that has been surprisingly effective (but not perfect) at preventing griefing.
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- 5,669
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
These shows are planned over a month in advance (and it’s not uncommon for segments to be pre-recorded when there’s no live audience interaction), so if it was planned to come up it would likely have been factored into the running schedule.
Wheel details will likely come in September.
- 87
- Australia
Looks like there will be 4 spec classes running per week with multiple tracks for each class, it’s possible each individual race could vary in length, pit stop strategy, weather and track conditions to give a huge amount of race variety each week.
- 120
- In my head
- None
- xRowdyBurnsx
I'm more worried about the "open" races where we use our own tunes/parts. I'd be ok if tracks change daily and class stays the same for a week.
Yeah, got that part. Like I said above, really just concerned or would like more info on the "Open" races. I'm hopeful we'll here more as the screenshots for Spec vs. Open was much different. Grinding out parts for cars won't be much fun if you can't use the cars in daily races. It kind of defeats the purpose.
- 685
- United Kingdom
For the "Open", it will only be the one class, with 3 or so tracks for a week.
Pretty sure they did this crap on Forza Motorsport 7 at launch, the community hated it, and eventually added in all hoppers.
- 758
- Brazil
Depends what you mean for that, they said that will have lobbies where people can get in and out like a pratice so they can test their setups as seems fit....
They seems that want rely more on fixed setups for tournaments, they said that privated lobbies can use the Featured settings of Spec racing and have races like that, and they said that hope it makes event creation even more easier with need with too much setuping and more competitve racing
About that, they posted on Forza website about it
- 5,669
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
The car XP system being tied to (private/custom) multiplayer severely limits player/community freedom. Even if cars are cheaper to buy with CR, you still need to level up each individual car in order to unlock upgrade parts.
In previous titles, you could buy any upgrades you want, which then allowed you to try out dozens of configurations in order to find the best builds, and you could begin this process from the second you buy a car.
Now, because upgrades are unlocked through a per-car levelling system, you first have to effectively grind XP on a car before you can buy various parts, and then begin the experimentation process.
This is fine for single player as well as curated Featured Multiplayer, but when you’re preparing for community leagues or running casual sessions with your friends, an evening session where you may try out 10 different cars (not uncommon, my club does it every week) now takes 20+ hours to unlock everything.
If you’re making events that mirror Builders Cup or Featured Multiplayer classes, that reduces the barrier to entry, yes (and I expect the curated groups to be well-balanced with no obvious meta, or else they’re not worth racing in).
However, there are many communities out there who will either come up with something beyond the scope of the curated races (for example, cars that are in different in-game groups but did race against one another in real life, or something like Muscle v Micro) or will host several events in a single evening. Additionally, whenever Turn 10 has poorly balanced cars in a class (PI system is open to abuse), communities have built their own performance balancing build lists to even out the meta.
Also, the game’s own Private Multiplayer settings have filters that inherently break the scope of car builds, by limiting power/weight/year/country.
In the past it was dead easy: buy car, download community-made tune (and paint if you want), go race. Now it’s buy car, spend 2 hours unlocking all the parts if it’s a new car, download community-made tune, hope the session is still up and the host is still doing that kind of race.
Long-term, once peoples’ garages have matured to the point they have hundreds of fully upgraded cars it won’t be an issue, but for the first 6 months to a year it’s absolutely going to be a pain point for ad-hoc community racing, the kind that thrives in Forza Horizon 5. It’s also going to be a pain-point for any new players who jump into “their favourite YouTuber’s” community nights and doesn’t have many cars to begin with, or the kinds of players who only have 1-2 hours a week of spare time and want to spend that in custom sessions with their friends.
I’m on board with almost everything else Forza Motorsport is aiming to do (because it’s taking all the good bits from GT Sport, something I’ve been asking them to do since 2017), but this lack of a separate sandbox area is a design decision I strongly disagree with.
Outside of multiplayer, it also messes with Time Attack and Rivals, where again it’s not uncommon for people to buy, build and hotlap 10-15 different cars an hour in order to find the fastest one.
That’s fine for Featured Events and Builders Cup which have curated events, but not for private/custom events where people can and will race and combine anything on a whim, and the community is built off of those custom events.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Featured Multiplayer will most likely not have group matchmaking, as matchmaking with friends breaks the TrueSkill system (if you’re Rank A and your friend is Rank F, the game cannot find a race that gives you both a fair set of opponents). Therefore if you want to do an event with up to 23 of your buddies you have to build it yourself.
To test those 5 cars, you initially need to play for 10 hours to explore them all. It’s a big upfront time investment that only gets diminished if your community decides to repeatedly do that event series. If they want to swap to a different type of car, you have to repeat the process.
Historically the most popular kinds of races in Forza (both Motorsport and Horizo) have been open-class events, as the lists of eligible cars for each are in the hundreds.
Spec racing has its place and if Turn 10 balance each class well it’ll be a lot of fun, but a core appeal of the series has been to buy a bunch of cars, upgrade and customise them they way you like, and see how they do against your friends. It’s not uncommon for people to take a car 2 PI classes above stock and have what is essentially a production-based race car of their own making.
Locking the entire game to the Car XP progression system gets in the way of that, and it would have been nice to have at least one small part of the game where said system is not needed, and people can freely build/race with no restrictions.
I have no concerns with Turn 10 wanting to implement an effort-based progression system into the game (it’s overall a good thing), but to not have a single way to bypass said progression in a casual “I only have 30 minutes and want to whip up a car build for funsies” manner is going to be disappointing for some.
In previous titles, you could buy any upgrades you want, which then allowed you to try out dozens of configurations in order to find the best builds, and you could begin this process from the second you buy a car.
Now, because upgrades are unlocked through a per-car levelling system, you first have to effectively grind XP on a car before you can buy various parts, and then begin the experimentation process.
This is fine for single player as well as curated Featured Multiplayer, but when you’re preparing for community leagues or running casual sessions with your friends, an evening session where you may try out 10 different cars (not uncommon, my club does it every week) now takes 20+ hours to unlock everything.
If you’re making events that mirror Builders Cup or Featured Multiplayer classes, that reduces the barrier to entry, yes (and I expect the curated groups to be well-balanced with no obvious meta, or else they’re not worth racing in).
However, there are many communities out there who will either come up with something beyond the scope of the curated races (for example, cars that are in different in-game groups but did race against one another in real life, or something like Muscle v Micro) or will host several events in a single evening. Additionally, whenever Turn 10 has poorly balanced cars in a class (PI system is open to abuse), communities have built their own performance balancing build lists to even out the meta.
Also, the game’s own Private Multiplayer settings have filters that inherently break the scope of car builds, by limiting power/weight/year/country.
In the past it was dead easy: buy car, download community-made tune (and paint if you want), go race. Now it’s buy car, spend 2 hours unlocking all the parts if it’s a new car, download community-made tune, hope the session is still up and the host is still doing that kind of race.
Long-term, once peoples’ garages have matured to the point they have hundreds of fully upgraded cars it won’t be an issue, but for the first 6 months to a year it’s absolutely going to be a pain point for ad-hoc community racing, the kind that thrives in Forza Horizon 5. It’s also going to be a pain-point for any new players who jump into “their favourite YouTuber’s” community nights and doesn’t have many cars to begin with, or the kinds of players who only have 1-2 hours a week of spare time and want to spend that in custom sessions with their friends.
I’m on board with almost everything else Forza Motorsport is aiming to do (because it’s taking all the good bits from GT Sport, something I’ve been asking them to do since 2017), but this lack of a separate sandbox area is a design decision I strongly disagree with.
Outside of multiplayer, it also messes with Time Attack and Rivals, where again it’s not uncommon for people to buy, build and hotlap 10-15 different cars an hour in order to find the fastest one.
You still have to grind (to quote Turn 10) “2-3 hours per car” to unlock the parts needed to even begin the setup test process. That’s the core issue for custom racing.
That’s fine for Featured Events and Builders Cup which have curated events, but not for private/custom events where people can and will race and combine anything on a whim, and the community is built off of those custom events.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Featured Multiplayer will most likely not have group matchmaking, as matchmaking with friends breaks the TrueSkill system (if you’re Rank A and your friend is Rank F, the game cannot find a race that gives you both a fair set of opponents). Therefore if you want to do an event with up to 23 of your buddies you have to build it yourself.
In this scenario, let’s say one of those specified classes in a Private Lobby has 5 cars. You want to find the one that’s fastest or best suits the way you drive. The event you’re doing requires fully upgraded cars (because upgrading cars allows more player freedom and meta variety).
To test those 5 cars, you initially need to play for 10 hours to explore them all. It’s a big upfront time investment that only gets diminished if your community decides to repeatedly do that event series. If they want to swap to a different type of car, you have to repeat the process.
Historically the most popular kinds of races in Forza (both Motorsport and Horizo) have been open-class events, as the lists of eligible cars for each are in the hundreds.
Spec racing has its place and if Turn 10 balance each class well it’ll be a lot of fun, but a core appeal of the series has been to buy a bunch of cars, upgrade and customise them they way you like, and see how they do against your friends. It’s not uncommon for people to take a car 2 PI classes above stock and have what is essentially a production-based race car of their own making.
Locking the entire game to the Car XP progression system gets in the way of that, and it would have been nice to have at least one small part of the game where said system is not needed, and people can freely build/race with no restrictions.
I have no concerns with Turn 10 wanting to implement an effort-based progression system into the game (it’s overall a good thing), but to not have a single way to bypass said progression in a casual “I only have 30 minutes and want to whip up a car build for funsies” manner is going to be disappointing for some.
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- 1,720
- New Zealand
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here PJ.
I have a feeling post launch some adjustments will be made to the car leveling system - I think there's going to be some backlash amongst many Race League Organizers/Community Members that will come out after realizing how much more of a pain it's going to be to run races in FM2023.
I think adjusting so it's manufacturer or division based would be the best solution. That way you still have to put in a little work (2-3 hours) but you get all of the cars from that division or marque done in one swoop.
- 15,383
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
Here's everything new from today's livestream. They revealed a lot more stuff than the previous streams
Gameplay video
- new featured multiplayer is a live updating list of races that people can participate in featuring a full race weekend structure and there are two types of events in featured multiplayer (13:58)
- spec series: tuned and balanced race cars, at launch there will be two races series, GT and touring cars, as well as a rotating list of other spec series (14:35)
- open series: bring any car that fits into the class restrictions, these race series will rotate on a weekly basis (15:01)
- race weekend structure consists of open practice, qualifying, and featured race (15:35)
- during open practice, you familiarize yourself with your car, track, and setup (15:56)
- qualifying can be completed at any time before the start of the featured race and your tire compound and fuel load for qualifying can be adjusted separately from the race (16:06)
- skip lap, available during open practice and qualifying, allows you to have a rolling start rather than starting from the pitlane (16:29)
- FRR (Forza Race Regulation) can identify things like track cutting, intentional collisions, and dirty driving. it will penalize players including out right disqualifying them (17:28)
- the new FRR allows them to remove extra tire barriers that were originally put in place to dissuade corner cutting (17:55)
- track limits have been redrawn to allow for more of the track to be used (18:08)
- driver rating is skill based and is based on player's on track behavior and FRR penalties so the game will try to match you with similar players (18:46)
- qualifier series is for players entering featured multiplayer for the first time to allow the player to get accustom to the new rules and flow of the weekend structure as well as to calculate your base driver rating (19:07)
- if you have tire wear on, race tires will wear the quickest. On the HUD, yellow tires moderately worn and red tires will have the least amount of grip meaning it's time to go to the pits (20:16)
- private multiplayer lets you choose your own game mode (circuit race, timed race, multiclass, meet up), car class, track, race length, and other options and restrictions. there are presets for rules (21:06)
- options available in private multiplayer are: 24 hour time of day, time scaling, weather, track rubbering, custom FRR, damage, ghosting rules, grid ordering, mandatory pitstop, support for up to 4 teams, assists and camera restrictions, car restrictions (min and max power and weight, drive type, and aspiration) (21:47)
- private multiplayer lobbies will not be affected by nor affect your driver and safety rating (22:32)
- rivals are where you compete to set the fastest time and will feature a pre-built and tuned car and track combo (23:00)
- time attack is where you bring your own tuned car to set a time (23:31)
- you can set your rival in rivals and will have the skip lap option, car mastery will be available as well (23:41)
- spectator mode and AI opponents will not be available at launch in featured multiplayer (24:20)
- splitscreen multiplayer will not be available at launch (25:50)
- in spec racing and rivals, all cars are tuned and balanced to be competitive, unlocks and leveling are not required in these events, but you can still level up these cars as you race them (25:48)
- in open series, private multiplayer, and time attack, cars can be tuned and customized so you can build your owned cars to the PI target. you can rent cars in this mode, but they are stock and do not earn XP or levels (26:38)
Gameplay video
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