Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[skazz]

It's a small list, though I'm probably missing a few:

• DIRT 5
• F1 23
• F1 22
• GRID Legends
• NFS Unbound
• NFS Heat
• NFS Hot Pursuit Remastered
• Hot Wheels Unleashed
• The Crew Motorfest
• Forza Motorsport 7
• Forza Horizon 3
• Forza Horizon 4
• Forza Horizon 5

DiRT Rally 2.0 only supports asynchronous cross-platform play (leaderboards essentially), as do DiRT 4 and DiRT Rally.

So of that list, only F1 and Forza Motorsport are really likely to be doing serious competitive multiplayer events.

I do wonder how F1 22/23 handles this issue. Does Codemasters have it all sorted or does it have it's own problems?

 

[KAlex122]

How does GT7 handle the frame rate thing in multiplayer? I mean the 4 graphics options have different target frame rates.

 

[JDMKING13]

How does GT7 handle the frame rate thing in multiplayer? I mean the 4 graphics options have different target frame rates.

I have Q80 TV and I love the 120hz option… in GT7. The graphics take a little hit but how smooth the game runs is what I love… also I am still just a mid pack driver and I don’t know how 120hz gives anyone and advantage…. if your fast your fast. I was hoping FM had similar options. Not a deal breaker for me though.

 

[TheOE]

My theory on the framerate thing is that their network sync rate is probably 60 times per second, so if people play on different framerates they could be sending different things to the server, thus introducing more lag and positional variation (a thing which does happen in Forza Horizon 5), leading to unnecessary car collisions.

It was a thing in F1 2021, esports players brought it up a lot.

I think one reason some people appear upset is because the explanation Turn 10 gave was too vague and not really helpful. Yes it's "to ensure there is a fair and level playing field", cool (and I'm ok with it), but saying how would have avoided any controversy, I feel.

Yes, most likely. During FM7 times the cars could "glue" to each other during contact. This effect was said to be stronger when a PC player and a console player are racing each other. So it is not out of this world that collision physics are wonky when to different frame rates are used...

 

[Veinz]

What does this have to do with the Series S? It's a game engine limitation, if anything. Plus, consoles will be the majority of the player base, so it (kinda) makes sense that t10 is prioritizing protecting them.

Let’s say the Series S doesn’t exist, do you still think it would be locked at 60? I highly doubt it personally.

 

[PJTierney]

So of that list, only F1 and Forza Motorsport are really likely to be doing serious competitive multiplayer events.

I do wonder how F1 22/23 handles this issue. Does Codemasters have it all sorted or does it have it's own problems?

I don’t deal with the esports side much so can’t say. When I played online it seemed fine though, 23 was notably less laggy than previous years for me anyway.

 

[BOK]

Let’s say the Series S didn’t exist, do you still think it would be locked at 60? I highly doubt it personally.

Series s uses the same cpu as the series x just clocked .2ghz lower and the same SSD just smaller capacity. the main difference is in the gpu and RAM pool, 10GB vs 16Gb for the series S. now people have the facts they can decide if the series s is really “holding the x back”

 

[Veinz]

Early in F1 22, a higher frame rate would make driving over curbs more difficult. So all the pros ran at 60 fps to make it easier. They fixed that a few months after launch iirc.

Series s uses the same cpu as the series x just clocked .2ghz lower and the same SSD just smaller capacity. the main difference is in the gpu and RAM pool, 10GB vs 16Gb for the series S. now people have the facts they can decide if the series s is really “holding the x back”

Well Microsoft requires feature parity between both consoles, so yeah the Series X is literally being held back to some extent.

 

[Exclusive118]

Early in F1 22, a higher frame rate would make driving over curbs more difficult. So all the pros ran at 60 fps to make it easier. They fixed that a few months after launch iirc.


Well Microsoft requires feature parity between both consoles, so yeah the Series X is literally being held back to some extent.

the problem is it appers in forza horizon 5 (assuming also forza motorsport) ur car is faster in a higher frame rate mode. so even if the series x could run at 120 fps, it would be unfair advantage to series x user without 120 fps displays.

Or even a pc user at 240 fps compared to a pc user at 120 fps

 

[nukleabomb]

Let’s say the Series S doesn’t exist, do you still think it would be locked at 60? I highly doubt it personally.

Yes?

If you are implying that the GPU in the XSS isn't enough, then i can point out that the targeted 1080p 60fps is supposed to be with RT. With enough settings turned down, 120fps would be doable.

If you are implying that the CPU in the XSS isn't enough, then I can point out that the CPU on both the the Xbox Series consoles are the same.

It is an engine issue. Whether it means 120-165-240-360Hz output gives you better physics/timing or multiplayer server poll related, it's hard to say. But the biggest hint they have dropped is that the lock is for Multiplayer only (assuming that this doesn't include rivals), meaning it has to do more with netcode.

Plus not all people play over 60Hz, on console or on PC. I can understand the rationale behind it, but i had hoped that higher framerates wouldn't give players an advantage from the game side (better reactions would be player side advantage, noticeable especially on FPS games).

The FH5 videos still do not convince me, because the gap is in 10s of milliseconds, which could be caused by steering input changes, shift times or net related issues. It is very hard to replicate successfully, when the advantage is so small. I would like to see different games being compared too.

 

[AttackDickie]

Could be worse, FM could be held back by last gen. Just saying..

 

[CeeJay69]

What about someone playing on a 5k sim rig or ultra wide gaming monitor, isn’t that an advantage?

This “equal playing field” reason is garbage, imo there must be a technical reason like something to do with timing

It's probably hard to believe but I have an ultrawide and it isn't really an "advantage" in the sense that it makes you faster in any way. An ultrawide makes you more consistent against other players, because you can see them easier, so you know how much space you have between you and them or if they're divebombing etc. It may sound like coping since I have one, but I'd be just as fast in rivals with a 16:9 as I am with a 32:9. In fact I have some records in FH5 that I set with 16:9 that I haven't been able to beat since switching over. There's a lot of simracers who make their viewport even smaller by reducing FoV so they can drive more accurately. Or if you want to go even weirder, there's Trackmania players who use the wrong aspect ratio (lower than 16:9) because the screen being stretched makes it easier for them to see things like the distance between the wall and the car.

Edit: Also I think the simrig probably would just depend on the game. In FH5 that simrig doesn't matter. I'm way faster on controller than a wheel in that game. In iRacing yeah the simrig would matter. FM(8)? No idea since we haven't seen any sort of comparison or proof of it actually being brought up to parity or being better than a controller. Historically controller has had multiple innate benefits over wheels in Forza though. So even if they fix the "feel", did they fix manual w/ clutch? That's also faster on controller since you can rebind clutch to A and just slide your thumb to shift.

 

[Veinz]

Could be worse, FM could be held back by last gen. Just saying..

View attachment 1283438

Yup, that was one of my main complaints about GT7. The multiplayer lobbies had horrible lag for a long time because of cross gen play, I think it was disabled in sport mode at one point as well.

 

[Artremis]

Well Microsoft requires feature parity between both consoles, so yeah the Series X is literally being held back to some extent.

Feature parity is about core game modes, not the technical side (hence why you usually see Series X games offering 60, 120FPS modes or RT modes that the Series S doesn't) - even for first party games, Halo Infinite only had a 120FPS mode at launch on the Series X for example. Which makes sense, Microsoft would always want the $499 console to be shown at the best it can.

 

[mynameis66]

Doesnt the series s offer 120fps as well as the series x?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Early in F1 22, a higher frame rate would make driving over curbs more difficult. So all the pros ran at 60 fps to make it easier. They fixed that a few months after launch iirc.


Well Microsoft requires feature parity between both consoles, so yeah the Series X is literally being held back to some extent.

All current gen consoles are held back by the entry level PC's that are still supported.

 

[Beezer215]

That's weird because here I was thinking my PC is being held back by the current gen consoles that don't perform as well.
Isn't that a tizzy.

 

[FordGTGuy]

They can't require 120 fps as most people on PC can't run a game like Forza Motorsport at 120 fps with reasonable graphics.

Not everyone has a $2000+ gaming setup; stuff like FSR and DLSS is helping though. (FSR and DLSS won't help with CPU/RAM/Storage bottlenecks.).

I do think they should have 120 fps multiplayer lobbies and leaderboards though.

 

[UKMikey]

So even if they fix the "feel", did they fix manual w/ clutch? That's also faster on controller since you can rebind clutch to A and just slide your thumb to shift.

 

[Veinz]

All current gen consoles are held back by the entry level PC's that are still supported.

Games aren't getting held back for entry level PC's though.

 

[Artremis]

They can't require 120 fps as most people on PC can't run a game like Forza Motorsport at 120 fps with reasonable graphics.

Not everyone has a $2000+ gaming setup; stuff like FSR and DLSS is helping though. (FSR and DLSS won't help with CPU/RAM/Storage bottlenecks.).

I do think they should have 120 fps multiplayer lobbies and leaderboards though.

There's no need to "require" anything though, it's not like the server or game would crash if people are running under 120FPS, just as there will be people on low-end PCs playing at sub-60 in multiplayer lobbies. On virtually any multiplayer game on PC you will find people playing on machines ranging from potato laptops that can barely run the game to your 4090s running it at 4K 200FPS.

 

[Ryan81]

So, how many new cars do you think are still left to be revealed? I would guess that in total we'd be getting around 70 new cars built from scratch.

 

[JackRyanWMU]

I had no idea about this until today, but this just sucks. When are people going to stop pretending that the Series S isn’t holding gaming back?

Forza Motorsport fans are canceling pre-orders over ‘nonsense’ frame rate lock - Dexerto

Forza Motorsport’s decision to lock PC frame rates at 60 FPS in multiplayer has fans fuming, leading some to cancel pre-orders.

www.dexerto.com

This game just went from a “must buy” to something I’ll just try on game pass.

Same website that put out this piece of "Journalism" a few months ago:

Dumb clickbait seems to be their bread and butter....much like most other gaming sites nowadays.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Games aren't getting held back for entry level PC's though.

The same game that has the Steam Deck missing the same feature?

 

[TheOE]

So, how many new cars do you think are still left to be revealed? I would guess that in total we'd be getting around 70 new cars built from scratch.

I don't expect more than 10-15 in total. FM7 only had a single new car to the franchise, the Porsche GT2RS. ATM these are the new cars:

2018 Acura #36 NSX GT3

2018 Audi # 44 R8 LMS GT3

2020 Automobili Pininfarina Battista

2023 Cadillac #01 Cadillac Racing V-Series.R

2023 Cadillac #31 Whelen Engineering Cadillac Racing V-Series.R

2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray

2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06

2020 Chevrolet #3 Corvette Racing C8.R

2014 Ford #17 AMD Tuning Focus ST BTCC

2020 Honda #73 LA Honda World Racing Civic

2020 Hyundai #98 Bryan Herta Autosport Veloster N

2019 Lamborghini Sián FKP 37

2020 Lynk & Co #62 Cyan Racing 03

1966 McLaren #4 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing M1B

2015 Porsche #91 Porsche Team Manthey 991 RSR

Bold = in Base game, so 11 in total (9 if you don't count the Lynk and Sian, since they are nearly the same car that have been present in older games but renamed)

 

[nukleabomb]

FM7 only had a single new car to the franchise, the Porsche GT2RS

oh wow. i had completely forgotten about this. Tbf i didnt have any of the dlcs for fm6 and fh3, so a lot of them did feel fresh to me.

FH5 had about 20 new cars iirc.

 

[meganinja]

When are people going to stop pretending that the Series S isn’t holding gaming back?

The Series x is capable of more frames too.

do you still think it would be locked at 60?

Yes, beacuse this is not beacuse of Series S, Series X would be also in behind vs high-end PCs with 120+/200+ FPS
also as FordGTGuy pointed:

They can't require 120 fps as most people on PC can't run a game like Forza Motorsport at 120 fps with reasonable graphics.

Not everyone has a $2000+ gaming setup; stuff like FSR and DLSS is helping though. (FSR and DLSS won't help with CPU/RAM/Storage bottlenecks.).

Also i find ironic that, wharever i go (here, in Forza Forums, Social medias, everywhere), the only people that are fully genuinally mad with it are people with clearly high end PCs that would use the game only to brag how much FPS it does or to purposly get it as advantage over others

Since my fellow (almost friends at this point) users already pointed why T10 is doing it on first place, let me point another thing that needs to be pointed: Forza is a XBOX franchise made to promote and sell XBOX, their main focus are in XBOX consoles, PCs and the rest comes second, if you dont like it, then there has other racing games to play, if you still want play Forza, you MUST accept this reality, it does not matter if PC market is larger than XBOX right now, their main focus will be ALWAYS the XBOX consoles as long MS sells them

Same website that put out this piece of "Journalism" a few months ago

I (unfortunally) keeps seeing their posts on twitter and 90% of their posts are clickbait, and is started from 12 months ago to now, it this site used to be more serious, but i heared someone else had brough the sit

 

[Veinz]

Yes, beacuse this is not beacuse of Series S, Series X would be also in behind vs high-end PCs with 120+/200+ FPS
also as FordGTGuy pointed:


Also i find ironic that, wharever i go (here, in Forza Forums, Social medias, everywhere), the only people that are fully genuinally mad with it are people with clearly high end PCs that would use the game only to brag how much FPS it does or to purposly get it as advantage over others

Since my fellow (almost friends at this point) users already pointed why T10 is doing it on first place, let me point another thing that needs to be pointed: Forza is a XBOX franchise made to promote and sell XBOX, their main focus are in XBOX consoles, PCs and the rest comes second, if you dont like it, then there has other racing games to play, if you still want play Forza, you MUST accept this reality, it does not matter if PC market is larger than XBOX right now, their main focus will be ALWAYS the XBOX consoles as long MS sells them


I (unfortunally) keeps seeing their posts on twitter and 90% of their posts are clickbait, and is started from 12 months ago to now, it this site used to be more serious, but i heared someone else had brough the sit

The Series X is arguably more powerful than most PCs now days.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

Yes, PC players want better performance, why wouldn't we? It's not about bragging or getting an advantage. People just expect games to meet a certain criteria now a days, capping at 60 fps is pretty weak no matter which way you slice it. Also, PC is a part of the Forza ecosystem now, maybe this is the reality YOU must accept. It being on Xbox is not an excuse for a cop out.

Between this, halo infinite and Starfield, I'd feel burned if I owned a Series X.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Games aren't getting held back for entry level PC's though.

Literally most tech being focused on and released by NVIDIA and AMD is tech to allow lower-end hardware to run new games.

Lots of new games are almost requiring people to use FSR and DLSS.

Games are getting held back by lower-end hardware. if all developers had to target were i9-13900ks and 4090s then games would be much more advanced and detailed than they are.

What's your solution?

Screw anyone not able to afford a $500 console? Alienate the vast majority of the gaming community?

VRS - Variable Rate Shading
FSR
DLSS
AI Frame Generation
Direct Storage
AI HDR
Freesync
G-sync

These are all technologies made to increase framerate performance of lower-end machines.

Before you judge me and think that I'm ignorant or don't care about people with high-end PC setups; here is my setup:

i9-13900k
RTX 4090
32GB DDR5 7200 Mhz
Terabytes of Gen 4 x4 NVME 990 Pro Samsung drives.
I have a 4K 120 fps OLED monitor.

I want to run all my games on max, as high as possible.

I really hope Forza Motorsport offers 120 fps multiplayer lobbies for those of us who want it. I do not want to alienate those who can't afford what I have or effectively cheat in a competitive environment by running the game at double their framerate.

There's no need to "require" anything though, it's not like the server or game would crash if people are running under 120FPS, just as there will be people on low-end PCs playing at sub-60 in multiplayer lobbies. On virtually any multiplayer game on PC you will find people playing on machines ranging from potato laptops that can barely run the game to your 4090s running it at 4K 200FPS.

Cars in Forza on a 120fps machine are faster than cars on a 60 fps machine.

 

[turk1993]

Literally most tech being focused on and released by NVIDIA and AMD is tech to allow lower-end hardware to run new games.

Lots of new games are almost requiring people to use FSR and DLSS.

Games are getting held back by lower-end hardware. if all developers had to target were i9-13900ks and 4090s then games would be much more advanced and detailed than they are.

What's your solution?

Screw anyone not able to afford a $500 console? Alienate the vast majority of the gaming community?

VRS - Variable Rate Shading
FSR
DLSS
AI Frame Generation
Direct Storage
AI HDR
Freesync
G-sync

These are all technologies made to increase framerate performance of lower-end machines.

Before you judge me and think that I'm ignorant or don't care about people with high-end PC setups; here is my setup:

View attachment 1283525

i9-13900k
RTX 4090
32GB DDR5 7200 Mhz
Terabytes of Gen 4 x4 NVME 990 Pro Samsung drives.
I have a 4K 120 fps OLED monitor.

I want to run all my games on max, as high as possible.

I really hope Forza Motorsport offers 120 fps multiplayer lobbies for those of us who want it. I do not want to alienate those who can't afford what I have or effectively cheat in a competitive environment by running the game at double their framerate.



Cars in Forza on a 120fps machine are faster than cars on a 60 fps machine.

Thats a clean setup and that Gohan Beast adds up atleast 50% more frames.