Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
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- SUTempest
Just watched the Super GT video as well, and honestly I really couldn't care less about the car model debacle, the 4k/60 FPS/RT thing, or any of the things everyone's hung up about. "Built from the ground up" is the next "It just works;" failing to temper your expectations from the start and buying into the hype of marketing speak, forgetting what franchise and what developers we're talking about, and then being surprised when the expectations don't align... Expecting FM 2023 to not be a continuation of FM7 is like expecthing a Bethesda game to come truly bug-free; things can and should improve, but you really should not expect miracles or dream games.
All I got from the Super GT video is that we're gonna have AI that will put up a fight, real incentives to master cars and corners, a penalty system that works live and in offline races to further incentivize clean racing, and a little bit of the damage system. It's the little things like that that genuinely get me excited because these are the things you're going to see and interact with every time you play. I maintain that they've got something going on, I also don't buy that the notifications in the top-right are that distracting... I'm sure there will be an option to turn that off too.
The only unknown left to uncover is race length during Builders Cup. I still think it would be absurd to be stuck to 3-lap races with a fully developed tire, fuel, and damage system. Just do not buy they would omit something like that. Let's wait until one youtuber or another talks about race options.
All I got from the Super GT video is that we're gonna have AI that will put up a fight, real incentives to master cars and corners, a penalty system that works live and in offline races to further incentivize clean racing, and a little bit of the damage system. It's the little things like that that genuinely get me excited because these are the things you're going to see and interact with every time you play. I maintain that they've got something going on, I also don't buy that the notifications in the top-right are that distracting... I'm sure there will be an option to turn that off too.
The only unknown left to uncover is race length during Builders Cup. I still think it would be absurd to be stuck to 3-lap races with a fully developed tire, fuel, and damage system. Just do not buy they would omit something like that. Let's wait until one youtuber or another talks about race options.
If the RT mode hits 4k 90% of the time, why wouldnt it be the recommended mode?
I wouldnt be surprised if the RT mode goes under 1080p in the rain with a full grid.
- 604
- United States
The new circuits look disappointing, layout wise. Graphically they look nice, but that's probably the least important part of them. Hakone might be okay though if drafting is truly improved and important, but it's awful flat. Grand Oak might be alright in the right kinds of cars, since some of its corners have a bit more banking.
The funny thing about them being "easy" flowing tracks or geared for beginners is that flowing corners mean vague passing zones and are actually usually bad for beginners as they lead to tons of clumsy/awkward overtaking attempts, and lots of "stuff it up the inside and then wash out" type moves. Maple Valley is a horrible offender of this and is probably the biggest "noob trap" circuit they have ever created.
The car leveling system is a real head-scratcher for me. Some people praise it in the name of "progression" but learning to be a better driver has been the progression system in basically every track-focused racing game ever, so this isn't new it's just now we have stuff locked behind it. If people didn't care about getting better in previous Forza games, is a little XP bar really going to make them care now? Probably not, it will just make them spend more time bumbling around to unlock parts because they are earning less XP per corner than people who do actually try to get better.
Unfortunately though, they have gone so hard on this "upgrade something something dominate the track" nonsense that I can't see them stepping back on it. I thought HokiHoshi's comments on it were good, and he suggested tying it to driver level, where driver levels translate to automatically leveled up individual cars. That would be a solid compromise as it would allow 2 options for progression, leveling up a car faster by driving it specifically, or continuing to drive a car you have already leveled up in other races to slowly upgrade all cars through your driver level. I hope something is done though, it looks quite restrictive and pretty exhausting.
A little odd we still have seen no dynamic weather stuff? And it appears weather wasn't even available in the preview version as well. Night looks great though, and Kyalami looks beautiful at night with the lights in the distance. Really hoping Bathurst returns quickly as well, as the early start in darkness for the 12h so you can see all the city lights in the distance from the top of the mountain would also be great.
I took the plunge and have a Series X on the way, so honestly I figured with my luck these previews would make me regret that decision/expenditure... But that didn't exactly happen. It's a mixed bag for sure, with some disappointments but also some stuff to be positive about. Wish I was feeling better about dropping $500 on a new toy, but at least I'm not really regretting it either.
The funny thing about them being "easy" flowing tracks or geared for beginners is that flowing corners mean vague passing zones and are actually usually bad for beginners as they lead to tons of clumsy/awkward overtaking attempts, and lots of "stuff it up the inside and then wash out" type moves. Maple Valley is a horrible offender of this and is probably the biggest "noob trap" circuit they have ever created.
The car leveling system is a real head-scratcher for me. Some people praise it in the name of "progression" but learning to be a better driver has been the progression system in basically every track-focused racing game ever, so this isn't new it's just now we have stuff locked behind it. If people didn't care about getting better in previous Forza games, is a little XP bar really going to make them care now? Probably not, it will just make them spend more time bumbling around to unlock parts because they are earning less XP per corner than people who do actually try to get better.
Unfortunately though, they have gone so hard on this "upgrade something something dominate the track" nonsense that I can't see them stepping back on it. I thought HokiHoshi's comments on it were good, and he suggested tying it to driver level, where driver levels translate to automatically leveled up individual cars. That would be a solid compromise as it would allow 2 options for progression, leveling up a car faster by driving it specifically, or continuing to drive a car you have already leveled up in other races to slowly upgrade all cars through your driver level. I hope something is done though, it looks quite restrictive and pretty exhausting.
A little odd we still have seen no dynamic weather stuff? And it appears weather wasn't even available in the preview version as well. Night looks great though, and Kyalami looks beautiful at night with the lights in the distance. Really hoping Bathurst returns quickly as well, as the early start in darkness for the 12h so you can see all the city lights in the distance from the top of the mountain would also be great.
I took the plunge and have a Series X on the way, so honestly I figured with my luck these previews would make me regret that decision/expenditure... But that didn't exactly happen. It's a mixed bag for sure, with some disappointments but also some stuff to be positive about. Wish I was feeling better about dropping $500 on a new toy, but at least I'm not really regretting it either.
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- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
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- SUTempest
"Learning to be a better driver", then you see the state of FM7 online lobbies... Yeah, nah. There was zero incentive to learn to become a better driver before, there is even less over here in Horizon - every online race is one I dread. To incentivize a player to be a better driver, you kind of have to teach them one way or another what that even means.
Even a literal license test system, Gran Turismo style, would have been better than zero at that. I'm not saying that gamifying every corner, which is the approach they seem to be going for, is the solution, but it is absolutely better than nothing. I know it's one of those little things that might help me keep going a few more laps. The absolutely trashiest drivers will, yes, earn their XP more slowly, but, and crucially, there is a penalty system, a driver rating, and a safety rating system in multiplayer, now. Of all the things to copy from Gran Turismo, this is absolutely one I'm going to welcome.
Trash drivers will always be trash drivers, but if it can incentivize some to get better and learn a car, it can't be a bad thing. If you are good enough of a driver and you don't care for the XP system, you will probably unlock what you need for each car you want relatively quickly anyway, since, as you put it, you seem to be of the mindset that you want to be a better driver to begin with. You're probably good enough already, this system will not teach you to drive better; it'll only reward what you already know to do. All that I hope is those who won't or can't improve stay in their corner under their own safety rating.
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Mr Latte
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Spent a little bit of time looking at the audio being generated from a few videos...
Not the best examples but just quick captures.
Lower bass from the game, seems to be around the 25Hz region but many engines will have bass more around the 40Hz range and up.
What we have not yet seen is the audio settings being used to possibly increase the volume levels for what will likely be certain grouped effects with their own output level sliders.
Do we have anyone here who uses a PC connected (via eARC adapter) to a Sonos 7.1.4 setup?
I have just ordered the Sonos ARC to pair up with the ERA 300 stereo speakers and sub I bought earlier in the year...
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- 28,352
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Depends on what the intention is, especially with FSR 3. If the thought process is "4K/60 with ray tracing, easy peasy", then yes...but also no.
If FM isn't capable of 60 fps at the bare minimum with ray tracing, interpolating frames won't really resolve that without introducing additional frame latency. In a racing game, responsiveness is paramount and using FSR 3 to bump up the fps to 60 from a base of, let's say 42 average, wouldn't change much of anything.
The game would still feel like it's running below 60, because of the introduced latency of the game running below AMD's own minimum recommended target. Simply put, it'll look the part but it sure as hell won't feel it.
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- cutback73
- cutback73
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There has various ways to get free trials of GamePass, even the new credit card that they launched today will come with a 3 month trial for new users and they said that if you already have you could give away to someoneI'd be impressed if they got a trial since it was removed 2/3 weeks ago
I dont think that it is a big of a problem
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I have watched 3 preview videos so far. I am VERY excited for this game to come out.
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It was a fair assesment for the most part, although I feel some of the things he touched on, ie force feedback, collisions and penalties were probably not finalized in this version of the game and are most likely still being tweaked, so I don't look too much into those. I also don't really care about the upgrades being unlocked the same way for every car, because ultimately I've always built/tuned my cars the same way; handling and weight first, power eventually down the line. For me anyway, not having x upgrade at x level doesn't really matter because I tend to drive the cars stock, especially street cars, for a few races and try to figure out what upgrades are really needed rather than throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.
With that said, I'm curious about his comments regarding braking feel and feedback being upgraded on controller. It's something all the Forza games (Horizon included) of the Xbone era did better than most games, using the rumblers in the left and right triggers. You get some very good vibration feedback from the brake trigger when you're near the threshold of locking the wheels, which helps modulate your imputs. ACC for instance doesn't have any brake feedback through the controller, in part because every car has ABS natively, and it's very difficult to feel confident under braking. I don't have a wheel and don't plan going down that rabbit hole, so as long as it still feels like a Forza game I'll be happy.
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UKMikey
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I didn't smash the like button on this video because Eric immediately turned off all assists including ABS and the racing line at corners and then complained because it took him two or three hours to reach level 30 on his car when it took others about an hour or so. It's a cornering based levelling system. Sure, it's definitely not perfect, but why make things hard on yourself and then complain about how much it'd affect the majority of users when they likely wouldn't be doing that?
I'm not sure whether this is the same Destin who didn't know how to pronounce "Audi" or "Laguna Seca" at Gamescom, but as a self confessed novice he used ABS and a full racing line and didn't seem to have any problem reaching level 40:
I'd like to think most people who aren't diehard sticklers would. I know I would.
Going back to the DJS footage I praised earlier for looking much nicer than Super GT's, it looks like his driver's gloves are reflected in the windscreen and overhead signs are reflected on the roof of the car so it's possible he used one of the raytracing modes. My guess is Performance RT since it didn't look like 30fps to me and he didn't seem to have any problem obtaining high segment scores. It wasn't very fizzy though, so I could be wrong.
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- 10,958
- Canada
I don't even know why T10 chosen Eric to try out FM23. They should have chosen Failrace over him IMO, although I think he said sim racers aren't his thing?
As for Super GT, he was definitely not prepared to showcase Forza Motorsport at all. Very unprofessional. DJS's preview is one of the best ones, along with Jake who explained in great detail about the game.
As for Super GT, he was definitely not prepared to showcase Forza Motorsport at all. Very unprofessional. DJS's preview is one of the best ones, along with Jake who explained in great detail about the game.
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- ALLSETFORMOVE
steering wheel animation?still ±90 degrees?
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- Alabamistan
In FM7 you got rewarded more for turning off assists. So in Forza Motorsports you get rewarded more for having more assists on? Not sure I like that either. Seems like that should be the other way around. I said early on when this leveling up system was announced that I really didn't care how fast or how far I could level up a car. That doesn't appeal to me. Quality of the races is what I'm after with this game. Balanced divisions and better AI behavior are more important to me that how fast I can get a car to level 50. Making sure I hit a green line on screen through a corner to get more level up points, that's PC3 territory.
I've only seen a couple of these videos and they all had standing starts, has anyone shown a rolling start yet?
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The more I see about the upgrades being locked behind "car mastery" the more it feels like GT4's career mode in a way, a game lauded by almost every human being as being the greatest game in the world. Unless you went for something absurdedly slow in GT4 as a starter car, you didn't have the money to upgrade anything significantly good unless you completed a bunch of championships (full race coilovers were like, 20k for most cars IIRC) which took at the very least an hour or more depending on your skills and how good your car actually was. While it looks like money won't be an issue looking at HokiHoshi and others videos, it looks like you'll have to race your stock cars 15-20 minutes at best before you unlock the most important upgrades and get the full potential out of your cars.
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UKMikey
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Literally the first thing covered in this video:
I don't see how. The game just doesn't force you to turn them off. Credits aren't a thing in a game where upgrades don't cost money so I'm not sure how it matters anyway. Personally, I'm going to try out Sport ABS so I don't go off track at every corner.
There were no rolling start races in the preview provided by T10 which consisted of the initial drive followed by the first championship event. That's all we've got so far.
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Even ignoring that the only part of GT4 where this could possibly be considered true is the very earliest part of the game under specific circumstances (as opposed to a recurring game design element that popped up every time you bought a car), GT4 would give you literally all the money you would ever need without even requiring you to fulfill the basic task of actually playing the game.
I'd even go so far as to say that short of PC games that saved player profiles in editable text files or games that just let you buy credits/cars with microtransactions, GT4 is literally the worst example you could make to compare Forza 8's progression system to a traditional money-based one.
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If you look at Hoki Hoshi's video at the beginning, it is similar to that of GT Sport/7.
Edit: Tree'd by @UKMikey.
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McLaren
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This basically sums any of my expectations nicely. I have a feeling T10 will address, or tweak the car leveling system post-launch based on everyone's reactions as they've done in the past when necessary.
Imagine ignoring what everyone who has played the game whom detailed the major changes, just to focus on 3 non-vital things.
No need to apologize when just spouting plain old hogwash for the sake of it.
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- Canada
I can without a doubt believe T10 will indeed address the car leveling system based on feedback after launch, as I'm starting to not favor it either. Just look at FM7 for example. So I can happily say:
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- syphe
I do laugh at all the GT7 fanboys coming out of retirement to hate on the game, finding the smallest little nitpicks to prove their agenda. Forgetting that GT7 single player and sound design is woeful, the only thing it has going for it is it's graphics and multiplayer, but of course these fanboys spend far too much time on twitter to have anytime for multiplayer
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To me, Forza Motorsport 2023 and Gran Turismo 7 are both the best-looking eye-candied console Simcade racing games, now I wish the Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport franchises to copy each other off to improve even further.
Edit: I still reckon Forza Motorsport 2023 and GT7's handling model is going to be even better than Hot Lap Racing for Nintendo Switch.
They're just rude people so just ignore them, anyway I will still prefer Assetto Corsa Competizione over Gran Turismo 7 and Forza Motorsport 2023.
Edit: I still reckon Forza Motorsport 2023 and GT7's handling model is going to be even better than Hot Lap Racing for Nintendo Switch.
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