Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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On the soundtrack topic I remember enjoying the FM2 one a lot; it had a nice vibe in the menus; I always turn it off while driving though.

FM3 to FM7 were quite the snooze fest, I get what they were trying to do, that premium a bit relax-y feeling but I have to say it miss the target 😐
 
Fm7's music was perfect suited for the racing garage homepage it had. It's a shame that the menus were reduced to just floating tiles (likely for performance reasons). You can see that all the areas present in the homepage like the autoshow, upgrades, drivers cup etc.
It felt like a lot of things that were planned or conceptualized for fm7 (even partially implemented) were incomplete. I wonder what the scene would have been like if FM7 was the one delayed till the launch of the series consoles in 2020, with no "built from the ground up" engine, but just chock full of content (plus features like drag/drift/potentially rally/FRR etc.)
I had hoped FM would be an extension of that (like in the Beta leaks) but it seems like they went for a cleaner look.

Also alpine f1 is specifically mentioned in thr tweet(not alpine in general), so we might get some f1 cars going. (Please r25/r26).

Yeah, I can see the idea there. FM1's menu music kind of had the same feeling, maybe that's what was sought in FM7 as well. And let's admit that at some point I have started to like few of the FM7 soundtrack and in the future, nostalgia will surely improve them even more.

Waves is actually somehow very good imo.

On the soundtrack topic I remember enjoying the FM2 one a lot; it had a nice vibe in the menus; I always turn it off while driving though.
FM2 has been the only Motorsport in the series where the menu has not had its own instrumental music, but just different songs. But I also like them a lot.

Paul Oakenfold- Switch On

Looking at a few FM8 gameplay videos, the new soundtrack seems to be more FM6-style again?
 
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High-energy racing game YouTubers are so damn cringe that it hurts.

(By high-energy, I mean these guys that yell during the intro or basically throughout the entire video, they also clickbait literally any news.)
It's because everybody was making a big deal over the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI shown by T10, and Thao saw an opportunity to upload such a clickbate video saying "forza thinks you're stupid" but NFS doesn't? Okay. Goes to show how dry his content can be when NFS has NOTHING to show, enabling him to run over to Motorfest now.

The guy clearly doesn't like Forza because it's popular AND it's on Xbox. No more needs to be said beyond that.
 
When it comes to soundtracks, I agree FM7 was really weak, FM6 was good, but FM3 to FM5...



That's it. I want Hayes back. These titles had an atmosphere of its own, at least for me.

I love this track. FM4’s soundtrack top to bottom is fantastic, IMO. My favourite overall sim game soundtrack. Music really helps set the tone for a game - even FM7, I wasn’t a fan of its music, but the rock did give me a real “we’re doing this in our own garage and the speakers are blasting” feel. The game’s garage area may have contributed to that, though.
 
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Yep fm7s menu presentation was so painfully bad. So drab. Crappy butt rock riffs and a random drill sound does not make a good soundtrack. Like everyone else I loved fm3 and 4s. Why on earth did they get away from that? Those two are the most revered FM games for a reason. Nailing presentation is so important
 
Regarding FM5's soundtrack, it was a mixed bag. Lance Hayes was still there, and I think it shows but...they had to go for the over the top orchestral 'dynamic' versions when starting a race, if you ignore those versions, you get pretty solid songs that fit the FM3 and FM4 aesthetic, such as these ones for example:

(This one for example is fine up to 2:25)



(And this one, up to 2:10)



Anyway, let's see how FM 2023 ranks. As long as it's better than FM7, it's a move forward...what I'm not really sure about, is the UI, not the layouts or menus themselves, but...how dark everything is. I wasn't expecting (or even want) FM3's superbright backgrounds, but this looks like it's deep within an underground parking garage...maybe some environmental lights wouldn't hurt.

image-2-14.jpg
 
Thanks to this thread I can't get this tune out of my head and not in a good way 😬



This is probably my favourite FM5 track:

 
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Regarding FM5's soundtrack, it was a mixed bag. Lance Hayes was still there, and I think it shows but...they had to go for the over the top orchestral 'dynamic' versions when starting a race, if you ignore those versions, you get pretty solid songs that fit the FM3 and FM4 aesthetic, such as these ones for example:

(This one for example is fine up to 2:25)



(And this one, up to 2:10)



Anyway, let's see how FM 2023 ranks. As long as it's better than FM7, it's a move forward...what I'm not really sure about, is the UI, not the layouts or menus themselves, but...how dark everything is. I wasn't expecting (or even want) FM3's superbright backgrounds, but this looks like it's deep within an underground parking garage...maybe some environmental lights wouldn't hurt.

image-2-14.jpg

Seriously why is everything so dark? I hate when upgrading the cars you can hardly see anything. Who thinks that **** is a good idea?
 
I would expect a brightness slider in SDR, and the usual brightness, white point and saturation in HDR.

it should be fine
 
"Ballast makes the car heavy!" ... completely glosses over the fact it brings weight distribution closer to 50:50
"This system will just make people reach for the OP cars and not try out other cars." ... They would have done that anyway. Some people don't give a damn about cars or anything but the metas. No progression system in the world will fix stupid like that.

And did he really have to yell the whole video? Anyway, yeah, AR12 in a nutshell, completely uninteresting.

Aside the fact that I would like Car Levels to be shared between duplicates, I don't really see a problem with it. If anything, maybe it'll give us events that have to meet CP limitations as well as PI limitations, which could be interesting as CP now acts as a barometer for how extensively modified your car is.



Oh, finally. I love to do gearing tuning, it's one of the parts of car tuning I've been the best at, so that will be incredibly useful. Gran Turismo 1 vibes...

That is funny as hell that he claimed that the system will cause people to just use OP cars. As you said, people do that anyway; such a statement is just reaching for straws.

Here is my thing.

The problem with modern racing games isn't OP cars; it's the lack of skill of drivers in OP cars. This new system will force these people to actually drive and get used to these cars in order to upgrade them; at the very least 1-2 hours of driving the car to be competitive online.

It's like games such as World of Tanks or War Thunder where you are forced to play and learn how to use certain tanks before you can use higher ranking tanks. (Unless you pay to buy a high teir tank and those players are usually absolutely awful.)

We need a system that forces people to drive and learn to handle these cars; this system does that. Ranting about ballast adding weight is extremely embarrassing and cringe. This is why I don't want influencers having any "influence" on game development.



Honestly, it's nice to have a racing game with a progression system that doesn't just exist to get people to pull out their credit cards.

Duplicates should definitely share progression; this is the biggest flaw in the system so far and I honestly see no good reason for it.
 
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I do dislike how the discourse around the upgrade system has become toxic, even the way AR12 replies to his commenters is pretty much dismissing them if they don't agree.
I haven't watched the video (and dunno if I will because I find him annoying) to know specifically in that case, but personally I've seen more toxicity from the people defending the system, suggesting people are "entitled" and "kids these days don't want to work for anything" and snarky "wow imagine having to unlock things in a video game" type comments. There's also people saying "I don't care about multiplayer, the system is fine" or people who don't even play multiplayer saying people are being whiners and it won't be a big deal.

Here is my thing.

The problem with modern racing games isn't OP cars; it's the lack of skill of drivers in OP cars. This new system will force these people to actually drive and get used to these cars in order to upgrade them; at the very least 1-2 hours of driving the car to be competitive online.

It's like games such as World of Tanks or War Thunder where you are forced to play and learn how to use certain tanks before you can use higher ranking tanks. (Unless you pay to buy a high teir tank and those players are usually absolutely awful.)

We need a system that forces people to drive and learn to handle these cars; this system does that.
As has been discussed previously in this thread, this system likely won't do that. You can't force people to learn, and in trying you will probably just annoy/frustrate them. People that suck will still suck, and they will still learn nothing from leveling up their cars, they will just complain about it and take longer to level them up than the people that are learning.

People learn what they want to learn, and while it is logical to assume so, learning and being good isn't tied to seat time, as many games can clearly indicate. In the league I run we have a guy who has been running with the league since FM1, driving everything from beginner cars like Clio Cup and MX5 Cup, up through NASCAR and GTs. He makes the same mistakes, argues with people who give him advice, rejects tunes from knowledgeable players, and after nearly 450 official league race starts, he has yet to get a single podium, even through inverted grids and the dying days of FM7 where car count is down. He isn't the only one either, we have several drivers with 200+ official races and only a podium or 2 thanks to inverted grids,multiclass attrition, or low attendance... and these are people who are serious enough about their racing to find an organized league to race with.

It's not just racing games either, games like GTA have people who are level 500 and can't drive a city block without crashing into a traffic car or can't make it across town without stopping multiple times to open their map. Yesterday I played For Honor with someone who was over 4x my overall level (and I have 500-ish hours into the game) and triple my level with the same character, yet only knew 1 combo (f you count a combo as pushing the same button 3 times in a row) and never dodged or blocked any attacks. I also regularly run into players who are half my level who are noticeably better than I am.

Whether people are good or improve is irrelevant for single player, but multiplayer is where it matters as it impacts others. The skill/safety rating system will likely be a much better motivator for people, as having a rating next to your name labeling you as someone who sucks and is dangerous will probably inspire people more than a car XP bar, and more people will be motivated to get out of the crash-fest low safety rating lobbies. Even if it doesn't motivate anyone at all though, it should at least make it so people who do care can progress up the ratings and get away from the people who don't care.

In a racing game, a skill and safety rating system is a far better progression system than purely grinding anyway... but it's just hard to implement for single player content where you can control AI difficulty and stuff.
 
We'll have to see how the progession system works in practice, but I personally don't care for either AR12 and detractors like him, but neither do I particularly want to be part of the maladive defense crew when the game still isn't out. If anything, I feel like I've been cawing the sentence "Maybe let's wait until it's out" too many times.

It does feel like it'll take some time to level a car up completely and it does look like the intent here is to spread out the time you spend between each car more, so you either:

a) Focus on the ones you like to make sure those have all you need
b) Really invest the time if you really want everything
c) Do not immediately V12/AWD/Slick tires/Max power everything and ruin the original feeling of the car far outside of what it is, naturally
d) All of the above

That's what I'm gleaning is the intent behind the progression system as presented through the videos I've seen. The oft-quoted figure is "it takes about 2 hours to bring a car to Level 50." It's not specified whether they mean 2 hours of gameplay in general or 2 hours of actual track time, not counting the menus.

Everything is going to come down to how it feels in practice. But if the figure quoted is anywhere close to true... I still don't really see what the problem is. You won't get instant performance boosts anymore, but so what?

From everything I'm able to gather and after a bit of thought organizing, here's a theory: In FM, if you want big power right now, it looks like you'll have to seek fast cars (high base PI). If you really like a specific car with a lower PI but want it to be faster or far altered from what it starts out at, you'll have to put the time into it, whatever that time will end up being. If you dedicate any decent degree of time to this game, then sooner or later, you will just get more cars and more options anyway. At the end of the day, all roads lead to "play more, get more" and perhaps encourage players to experience more of the car list than they normally would. I don't think it's necessarily more complicated than that.
 
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I am also waiting for game launch and see what will happen

But i am just glad that anything they are doing to expell the bad drivers, Motorsport is suposed to be taken more seriously and this line was took years ago once it was clean that Horizon was here to stay

Also about the progression itself, many people, including people that are critizing the new progressions had asked for more progression and less "get the things easily"
I Saw myself many people asking it, even AR12 himself admitted it, even if he used a "but this wasnt the type i was wishing" excuse later
 
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I haven't watched the video (and dunno if I will because I find him annoying) to know specifically in that case, but personally I've seen more toxicity from the people defending the system, suggesting people are "entitled" and "kids these days don't want to work for anything" and snarky "wow imagine having to unlock things in a video game" type comments. There's also people saying "I don't care about multiplayer, the system is fine" or people who don't even play multiplayer saying people are being whiners and it won't be a big deal.
Just personal observation (not at all directed at you); it's strangely bizarre how these are the same arguments, word-for-word, made to defend GT7's lack of real progression when it launched when the pay outs were so low in relation to legendary dealer refresh prices.

More so, the game hasn't even launched to make such bold statements. I'm all for unlocking things, but as I've said repeatedly by now, anyone who likes having duplicate cars will find the system off-putting. I don't think anyone wants to legitimately unlock/level up the exact car they've already maxed out because they bought a new one to do something different with. That's a weird decision by T10 & I'm almost willing to bet money this system will be adjusted in some form in the 1st month once feedback is given. I think they're trying to do something new & different (to which I'll give them credit for the effort), but they may have gone just a touch too far with their original view of how they think it will be work out in the long run.
 
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Personally I really like HokiHoshi's idea and I say that as someone who is not really against the current progression system T10 has planned. I don't like it, I don't hate it, it's just not a huge deal to me since I have different priorities. I do feel that his idea is better than T10's though. Something that wont frustrate players 2 years down the line when the new game smell has worn off. It does the same thing but gives players the choice of taking different upgrade paths. I think I can see T10's original intention and what they wanted to recapture, but I think it falls flat in the long run.
 
Giving players the freedom to put on whatever parts they like assuming they’ve got enough point seems like a no brainer, locking unlocks behind levels seems counter intuitive. If you want to save up the car points and drop a big turbo on a car before doing anything else you should be able too. The levels should just give you bonus points imo
 
I’m in two minds on the Car Levelling system, on one hand it means folks will drive it as it came from the factory and slowly make it into something of their own and I can respect that.

On the other hand however, I can see why some folks have concerns for it, especially the part about car levels not carrying over to duplicates of that car, that I can see being a headache for those building cars for different classes and events.

If they want to keep the car levels to one car and not to duplicates, then the grind to level 50 should be much shorter than 2 hours.

Alternatively, keep the 2 hour expected grind time, but make it so that by getting to level 50 for a particular car, you permanently unlock all the parts for that car so building duplicate cars is less of a ball ache in the long term.

This way, you give the players an extra incentive to not only drive more cars, but to drive them long enough to max out their levels too.
 
I wish they'd done it differently, especially with regard to duplicate cars and locking particular upgrades between higher CXP levels.

It's not the worst or most frustrating parts levelling system I've played this year or even this month though having bought GT7 and The Crew: Motorsport. RNG doesn't belong anywhere near a system like this.

But Turn 10 need to listen to genuine community feedback and tweak it unless they want to see that community evaporate. They're potentially spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar.
 
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I haven't watched the video (and dunno if I will because I find him annoying) to know specifically in that case, but personally I've seen more toxicity from the people defending the system, suggesting people are "entitled" and "kids these days don't want to work for anything" and snarky "wow imagine having to unlock things in a video game" type comments. There's also people saying "I don't care about multiplayer, the system is fine" or people who don't even play multiplayer saying people are being whiners and it won't be a big deal.


As has been discussed previously in this thread, this system likely won't do that. You can't force people to learn, and in trying you will probably just annoy/frustrate them. People that suck will still suck, and they will still learn nothing from leveling up their cars, they will just complain about it and take longer to level them up than the people that are learning.

People learn what they want to learn, and while it is logical to assume so, learning and being good isn't tied to seat time, as many games can clearly indicate. In the league I run we have a guy who has been running with the league since FM1, driving everything from beginner cars like Clio Cup and MX5 Cup, up through NASCAR and GTs. He makes the same mistakes, argues with people who give him advice, rejects tunes from knowledgeable players, and after nearly 450 official league race starts, he has yet to get a single podium, even through inverted grids and the dying days of FM7 where car count is down. He isn't the only one either, we have several drivers with 200+ official races and only a podium or 2 thanks to inverted grids,multiclass attrition, or low attendance... and these are people who are serious enough about their racing to find an organized league to race with.

It's not just racing games either, games like GTA have people who are level 500 and can't drive a city block without crashing into a traffic car or can't make it across town without stopping multiple times to open their map. Yesterday I played For Honor with someone who was over 4x my overall level (and I have 500-ish hours into the game) and triple my level with the same character, yet only knew 1 combo (f you count a combo as pushing the same button 3 times in a row) and never dodged or blocked any attacks. I also regularly run into players who are half my level who are noticeably better than I am.

Whether people are good or improve is irrelevant for single player, but multiplayer is where it matters as it impacts others. The skill/safety rating system will likely be a much better motivator for people, as having a rating next to your name labeling you as someone who sucks and is dangerous will probably inspire people more than a car XP bar, and more people will be motivated to get out of the crash-fest low safety rating lobbies. Even if it doesn't motivate anyone at all though, it should at least make it so people who do care can progress up the ratings and get away from the people who don't care.

In a racing game, a skill and safety rating system is a far better progression system than purely grinding anyway... but it's just hard to implement for single player content where you can control AI difficulty and stuff.
I'm sorry but I don't believe this.

Someone driving a car for 1-2 hours is going to be more competent at handling that car than someone who instantly upgrades it and takes it online without any real experience driving the vehicle.

Whether they suck or not is an issue of a general level of driving skill but I think it's hard to claim that they wouldn't at least be better at handling the vehicle after putting time into driving it.

"They will learn nothing from leveling the cars."

Really? They won't learn anything from driving said cars on track for over an hour? I really just cannot believe that.

I honestly do not think this logic would hold up to reality. (Unless you're basing this on people that don't want to learn and just want to crash into walls and hit cars and honestly I don't see those people even putting in this effort and time to upgrade the cars.)


If we took two novices and had them compete against each other; one with zero experience driving the vehicle and one with 1-2 hours of experience. I'm betting on the person with 1-2 hours of experience every time. Not to mention the person with experience got to drive the vehicle in stock form and then better upgraded versions on multiple race tracks until reaching the upgraded version they will be using to compete.



I understand what you're saying, someone could spend that 1-2 hours hitting other cars and cutting corners, although this ignores the new penalty system to prevent this behavior. That person would still be more competent at driving the car while hitting other cars and cutting corners. I really don't think we should base the entire community and the idea of this system on 15 year old GTA kids.


How about we base this on people that are novices that at least want to race properly?



As far as a comment on the general leveling system, I think a big factor will be how much these manufacturer bonuses truly speed up the leveling process. As a ford guy, If I max out 5 ford vehicles will leveling another one take half the time?
 
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My only complaint with the car-based progression is that if you were to buy a duplicate of the same car, or if you sell the car that was maxed out and buy it again, you'll have to level it up all over again.

I feel like Turn Ten can improve on this with the following, and make the car progression system more permanent:
  • Duplicates will no longer need to be leveled up again.
  • Once the car is fully maxed out to level 50, but you decide to sell it, you don't need to start all over again, and the leveling system will be permanent for that particular car.
Kind of like in Juiced where if you have a car with all prototype mods, any duplicates of it will have these mods carry over, but the downside is, if you sell every example of that car, and decide to buy it again, you will have to get these mods all over again.

That way, there is some small reprieve for those who do not wish to grind with the same car again and again. That way, there's "more fun, less grind".
 
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I believe parts should be purchased like the old school style.

Levelling up a certain car should count as a loyalty levelling up system.

Where the car brand will give you exclusive cars or even exclusive parts.

This would be a great feature to expand FM4s affinity feature. Many people are loyal to one brand.

I love Ferrari but at the same I time appreciate other brands. You have people who are loyal to just one brand.

@GBalao888 Oh God Juicied was such a tedious game I mean I enjoyed playing it a lot but at the same time it made me rage quit a lot of the times due to its tedious features.
 
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