- 4,038
- United States
You very well could be right. But it doesn't bother me at all. I love coming back to games for events and content over the years and it keeps me invested in the game. I might be in the minority though.
Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
- 14,446 comments
- 1,489,228 views
- 5,599
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
It’s always licensing related. Every logo you see on a car needs to be approved (and sometimes paid for).
- 139
- Finland
- 666
- United States
- bkfountain
- fozzie bear
Boy, live service games sure are fun.
- 1,713
- New Zealand
Thanks for this. Do you have a list of all the cars with a widebody, period? (including one's from FH5, would be good to cross reference)
- 3,885
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
So I tried to do a reasonable comparison of Series X race photo mode images for the new BMW under similar sunny lighting in FH5 and FM2023, just because I see so many bad pictures of FM2023 cars all under the one weird lighting time period.... It's not perfect, but the sun is in a similar place in both.
Here is the FH5 version:
Here is the FM2023 version:
To my mind, this demonstrates that FM2023 can look just as reasonable as FH5 under typical daylight conditions. In fact, the shadowing of the car may well be better in FM2023 however I guess the shiny paint looks a little better in FH5.
Both are HDR images which the game itself exported to SDR, which is presumably also a difference.
Here is the FH5 version:
Here is the FM2023 version:
To my mind, this demonstrates that FM2023 can look just as reasonable as FH5 under typical daylight conditions. In fact, the shadowing of the car may well be better in FM2023 however I guess the shiny paint looks a little better in FH5.
Both are HDR images which the game itself exported to SDR, which is presumably also a difference.
- 929
- United States
- 2,165
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
Absolutely, I bought the menu screen Cadillac today and tried it completely stock in a custom race against AI at Spa, setting it up to make the AI use the same car. On max difficulty the AI was doing similar lap times to me. If anyone wants a real challenge, stay at the back for the first lap to let them get a bit spread out, THEN start trying to work through the field of 23 cars.
- 3,885
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
For reference, I was on a little over 3.5 days (~90 hours) play time in FM7 when I 100% completed the career according to Achievements stats. That was almost exclusively career races, with only a few free plays and some car tuning/menu activities. So let's say probably around 60-75 hours needed to complete those ~390 races when you are focusing on just that.
I'd estimate that the new career mode with practice sessions and longer races isn't even that much shorter than 50 hours. But if you skip practice you should be able to get it done noticeably quicker.
Still, the achievement for 30x cars at car level 50 will take far far longer than the career to complete....
- 3,171
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
Well if that would be part of career then people would complain there is no post launch content 😅
- 2,062
- Sunderland
I think the lighting of the game is pretty much spot-on and all it's missing is a little bit more saturation and contrast. Luckily now that Nvidia Freestyle supports it I can make that adjustment myself, and god does it look pretty now. Obviously a sunny day already has the most contrast, but check it out now:
- 573
- France
- SUTempest
Live service games are not a model I'm a fan of and I'm the last person to support GaaS nonsense, but "games used to ship complete" is an argument that needs to die and stay buried.
Plenty of games did ship incomplete or with broken or missing features. What might have been different back then was how well developers hid this stuff. What used to happen, if you were lucky, was, in order of likelihood:
Obviously, when consoles could download updates and it became more viable to simply send out patches as often as needed, the entire model shifted to the possibilities. Live service and gradually iterating on a title is only possible when you can push updates more or less whenever you want, console certifications and other barriers notwithstanding.
The reality is this has always sucked in one way or another, it was just different flavors of suckage. This isn't just a gaming thing either, the entire software sector does the same thing. The sentence "It used to be better before" is the pair of nostalgia blinders. Take 'em off.
Plenty of games did ship incomplete or with broken or missing features. What might have been different back then was how well developers hid this stuff. What used to happen, if you were lucky, was, in order of likelihood:
- Unlikely, a recall or a new revision of the game being released, especially if you were on console
- Maybe, a patch correcting what's missing or expansion packs, if you were on PC
- Most of the time, sorry pal you're SOL. What you bought is what you got.
Obviously, when consoles could download updates and it became more viable to simply send out patches as often as needed, the entire model shifted to the possibilities. Live service and gradually iterating on a title is only possible when you can push updates more or less whenever you want, console certifications and other barriers notwithstanding.
The reality is this has always sucked in one way or another, it was just different flavors of suckage. This isn't just a gaming thing either, the entire software sector does the same thing. The sentence "It used to be better before" is the pair of nostalgia blinders. Take 'em off.
- 17,825
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
If they planned for those events to be at launch, they could've created new post-launch events anyway. Implementing events is not that time consuming like with adding a car. As of right now, this feels like they could've done more, but choose not to.
Post-launch content is supposed to be considered bonus additional stuff, right now this is feeling more like stuff they purposely held back.
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- 452
- England
AI takes me out at the start of the race, while spinning around I cut the first corner...
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Never change Fortza
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Overtake+
Never change Fortza
- 223
- United States
- 1,713
- New Zealand
Did some deductions from FH5's widebody kit list and thanks to @TheAdmiester digging through the files, I can make a few lists of kits in FM2023.
Though many of these kits are unconfirmed - I just assumed if the car is in FM2023 and had a kit for it in FH5 or FM7, it would be in FM2023. But that may not be the case, and it's really hard to check when Body Kits are like level 45 or whatever to unlock.
Body Kits from FH5 (53) (some of these are unconfirmed)
Body Kits from FM7 FE Vehicles (8) (some of these are unconfirmed)
Potential New Bodykits (14) (need confirmation on all of these aside from 2017 Ford GT/S15 Silvia)
Body Kits not in FM (39) (Cause the car isn't in FM2023)
Though many of these kits are unconfirmed - I just assumed if the car is in FM2023 and had a kit for it in FH5 or FM7, it would be in FM2023. But that may not be the case, and it's really hard to check when Body Kits are like level 45 or whatever to unlock.
Body Kits from FH5 (53) (some of these are unconfirmed)
- 2015 Audi RS6 Avant - Forza Designed
- 2013 Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro - Liberty Walk
- 2005 BMW M3 E46 - SSWORXS
- 2005 BMW M3 E46 - Streetfighters L.A
- 2005 BMW M3 E46 - Rocket Bunny
- 1997 BMW M3 E36 - Rocket Bunny
- 1997 BMW M3 E36 - Streetfighters L.A
- 1995 BMW 850CSI - Forza Designed
- 2016 Cadillac ATS-V - Forza Designed
- 2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray - Sigala Designs
- 2020 Chevrolet Corvette C8 - Streethunters
- 2018 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE - Streetfighters L.A
- 1970 Datsun 510 - Factory Fender Flares
- 2017 Ford Focus RS - Forza Designed
- 2019 Hyundai Veloster N - ADRO
- 1992 Honda NSX-R - Rocket Bunny
- 2015 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe - Forza Designed
- 2021 Lexus LC500 - Liberty Walk
- 2015 Lexus RC-F - Rocket Bunny
- 2021 Lynk & Co 03+ - Lynk & Co Touring Car Kit
- 1997 Mazda RX-7 FD - KRC Japan
- 1997 Mazda RX-7 FD - TCP Magic
- 1997 Mazda RX-7 FD - Rocket Bunny
- 1997 Mazda RX-7 FD (Boss Kit) - Rocket Bunny
- 1994 Mazda MX-5 Miata - Rocket Bunny
- 1990 Mazda Savanna RX-7 FC - Factory Fender Flares
- 2012 Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG Black Series - Liberty Walk
- 1965 Mini Cooper S - Factory Fender Flares
- 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR - Streetfighters L.A
- 2020 Nissan GT-R NISMO - Chargespeed
- 2003 Nissan Fairlady Z (350z) - Rocket Bunny
- 2000 Nissan Silvia S15 Spec R - Rocket Bunny
- 1998 Nissan Silvia S14 Kouki - Rocket Bunny
- 1994 Nissan Silvia S14 Zenki - Rocket Bunny
- 1993 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec (R32) - Rocket Bunny
- 1992 Nissan Silvia S13 - Rocket Bunny
- 1992 Nissan 240SX - Rocket Bunny
- 1987 Nissan Skyline R31 GTS-R - Factory Fender Flares
- 1971 Nissan Skyline 2000 GT-R - Factory Fender Flares
- 1969 Nissan Fairlady Z 240 - Rocket Bunny
- 1969 Nissan Fairlady Z 240 - Factory Fender Flares
- 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS - Duke Dynamics
- 1995 Porsche 911 GT2 - RWB
- 1982 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3 - RWB
- 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS - RWB
- 2019 Subaru WRX STi S209 - Varis
- 2013 Subaru BRZ - Rocket Bunny
- 2020 Toyota Supra A90 - HKS
- 1998 Toyota Supra RZ - KRC Japan
- 1992 Toyota Supra GT 2.0 Twin Turbo - Factory Fender Flares
- 1974 Toyota Celica GT - Factory Fender Flares
- 2014 Volkswagen Golf R - Rocket Bunny
- 1992 Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk2 - Rocket Bunny
- 2017 Acura NSX
- 1991 BMW M3 E30
- 2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
- 2016 Ford Shelby GT350R
- 1997 Honda Civic Type-R (Ek9)
- 2016 Mazda MX-5
- 2016 Mercedes-AMG C63 Coupe S
- 1987 Pontiac Firebird Trans AM GTA
Potential New Bodykits (14) (need confirmation on all of these aside from 2017 Ford GT/S15 Silvia)
- 2019 Aston Martin Vantage
- 2016 Audi R8 V10 Plus
- 2018 BMW M5
- 2016 Dodge Viper ACR
- 2019 Ferrari 488 Pista
- 2010 Ferrari 458
- 2016 Ford GT - Forza Designed
- 1993 Ford Mustang Cobra R
- 2017 Mercedes-AMG GT R
- 2017 Nissan GT-R
- 2000 Nissan Silvia S15 Spec R - KRC Japan
- 2019 Porsche 911 GT3 RS
- 2015 Subaru WRX STI
- 2013 Audi RS7 Sportback - Forza Designed
- 2016 Bentley Bentayaga - Forza Off-Road
- 2022 BMW iX xDrive50 - Forza Designed
- 2022 BMW i4 eDrive40 - Forza Designed
- 2014 BMW M4 Coupe - Liberty Walk
- 2011 BMW X5 M - Forza Off-Road
- 2011 BMW X5 M Forza Edition (NEW) - Forza Designed
- 2008 BMW M3 E92 - Liberty Walk
- 2008 BMW M3 E92 - Streetfighters L.A
- 2018 Dodge Durango SRT - Forza Off-Road
- 2015 Dodge Challenger Hellcat - Liberty Walk
- 2003 Honda S2000 AP1 - Rocket Bunny
- 1974 Honda Civic RS - Factory Fender Flares
- 2015 Infiniti Q 60 S Concept - Forza Designed
- 2017 Jaguar F-Pace S - Forza Off-Road
- 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT Trackhawk - Forza Off-Road
- 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT - Forza Off-Road
- 2014 Lamborghini Huracan LP610-4 - Liberty Wal
- 2012 Lamborghini Aventador LP700 SV - Liberty Walk
- 2010 Lamborghini Murcielago SV - Liberty Walk
- 1986 Lancia Delta S4 - Forza Rally
- 1975 Lancia Stratos HF Stradale - Forza Rally
- 2015 Land Rover Range Rover SVR - Forza Off-Road
- 1970 Land Rover Range Rover Classic - Forza Off-Road
- 2010 Maserati Granturismo S - Forza Designed
- 2015 McLaren 650S - Liberty Walk
- 2014 McLaren 650S Spider - Liberty Walk
- 2018 Mercedes-Benz X Class (NEW) - Pickup Design
- 2013 Mercedes-Benz G 65 AMG - Forza Off-Road
- 1987 Mercedes-Benz AMG Hammer Coupe - Factory Fender Flares
- 2009 Mini John Cooper Works - Liberty Walk
- 2012 Nissan GT-R Black Edition - Liberty Walk
- 2015 Porsche Cayman GTS - Rocket Bunny
- 1972 Reliant Supervan III - Forza Designed
- 1968 Renault 4L Export (NEW) - Factory Fender Flares
- 2022 Toyota GR86 (NEW) - Rocket Bunny
- 2013 Toyota GT86 - Rocket Bunny
- 2010 Volkswagen Golf R (NEW) - APR Performance
- 2013 Wuling Sunshine S (NEW) - Forza Designed
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- 573
- France
- SUTempest
I'm back to the game tonight, I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not, but the only changes I made were going back to controller, steering back to Normal, and shifting back to Manual instead of M+C.
I'm once again getting a steady 72 FPS at Hakone in freeplay instead of the crazy 50-70 mess I had last weekend.
Huh. I hope it stays that way.
Welcome to live service games. "Post-launch content is bonus content" is outdated philosophy for better or for worse. The rationale is to release what you can now, add to it repeatedly over time, changing the meaning of what the "base game" has. This is actually very important, because it is explicitly not DLC content (which would be more like what you describe as "bonus content") that you can choose to have or not have.
I'm once again getting a steady 72 FPS at Hakone in freeplay instead of the crazy 50-70 mess I had last weekend.
Huh. I hope it stays that way.
Welcome to live service games. "Post-launch content is bonus content" is outdated philosophy for better or for worse. The rationale is to release what you can now, add to it repeatedly over time, changing the meaning of what the "base game" has. This is actually very important, because it is explicitly not DLC content (which would be more like what you describe as "bonus content") that you can choose to have or not have.
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I’m really enjoying the leveling aspect of the game and I’m actually looking forward to the grind to get every car and level them up. I can’t emphasize enough how well balanced the economy is. You level up a car in free play and by the time you’re finished you have enough credits for the most expensive car available. I just set the quick race to 7 laps random track, layout, and weather and you have a endless series of races. There aren’t championship points and you don’t get a trophy or credit reward in free play, but I don’t have to stress about losing a race and I can skip any tracks I don’t like without consequence. If you don’t have the VIP version it will take longer to earn credits for cars but I don’t think you would be too far away from that next car after getting another to level 50. The manufacturer discount up to 25% for getting 5 cars to 50 is more icing on the cake.
- 17,825
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
I am very well aware that it was being pushed as a live-service game from the start, thank you very much. I stand by my point, they didn't do enough with their launch.
Yeah, that is very great that you have the freedom in doing that, but that's not my issue. It's not the content itself being a problem, it's the fact they're seemingly putting minimum effort into implementing it.
-----------------------
EDIT: I also recently was able to solve my objects popping in and out at random issue for the game. It was the fact the game was installed on my HDD instead of my SSD, that fixed the problem. With that said, I think the PC port of FM23 needs optimizing on this aspect.
Also, I can safely say that one thing Turn 10 really should update later on if they intend for this to be a game supported for years is the class system. Really don't like that V8 Supercars are plunked into the class with GT racers when they could've easily been in their own class.
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- 573
- France
- SUTempest
It's not that I disagree with you, it's that I don't know what you're expecting and I don't really know how to explain to you "they didn't do enough" is... very very, very, very subjective. If only there was a way to quantify what makes "enough," but as it stands, no, I don't think you're looking at it the right way. Yeah, of course they could have done more... but is that not generally true anyway? There's always more cars, more tracks, more features, more QoL, more of anything they could have done before launch. I'm not saying it's good or it's bad, but I am definitely confused about the disappointment. It's a days-old game, what matters is how long they keep supporting it and whether they do enough in the long run.
Or are you suggesting T10 should have delayed that game some more, so it had more of whatever you consider "enough" on release? Because whenever a developer hinted a long-delayed, long-anticipated, long-announced game might be delayed again, it only ever seems to generate bat-out-of-hell anger and frustration. It's already hell to be a game developer, I don't think T10's people need more bile and toxicity.
Like I said earlier, it's "release what you can now, iterate on it later" for a good reason. If you don't keep your expectations tempered ahead of a game you want, it's ultimately on you. Only thing we can do is hope they do keep supporting FM for as long as they implied they would. It has potential - but only the long-term will tell us if it'll live up to it.
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,261
- Texas
Sounds a bit like the an old livery bug that’s plagued Motorsport for multiple games now, just in the case of the TS040, it’s more positive than negative.
For example, if you wanted to add decal to a car that had something as simple as a couple stripes (like the 430S), it would delete the stripes. Really annoying, sounds like it may still be there.
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- 28,274
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
More observations after...however many hours I've played now. 
There's a lot of potential here but therein lies the crux of the problem: I'm sick to death of game's releasing with potential. I yearn for the days where games released realized, not with the promise of becoming something more over the course of several years.
- While there's no denying the tire model is massively improved, it really feels like the same underlying issues persist. Such as the abhorrent understeer (seriously, why is every single car in the game so damn nose heavy?)
- Why does the 919 Hybrid drive like that? An LMP1 car that has comparable performance to a Formula One car just...slides around every corner like its tires are made of butter.
- I've oversteered for reasons I literally can't explain nor understand. It reminds me of GT7 at release, actually.
- What on earth did they do to the Essenza's sound? I've already complained about this...but seriously, what in the 🤬 happened there? Fix it.
- Are there really no events with race cars? What was the thought process there? I don't race online so...I guess I have to wait for something that quite frankly should already be there?
- Cars are, for the most part, very easy to drive. As it should be.
- Why does the 919 Hybrid drive like that!?
- 787B sound. No. Just no. Absolutely not. Niet. Nah. Nope. Negative.
- Koenigsegg? There's a brutality to the One:1 that I love, but the Jesko sounds weird.
- Tuning feels fun again but leveling up duplicates needs to go.
- What's Driver Level for?
- "AI". I'm really not going to say anything else.
- I already want more events and tracks and I haven't even gotten halfway through what's there, but having less events than FM3 is laughable, IMO.
- Why does Forzavista not have as much interactivity now?
- Are we ignoring the improvements to several systems made in FH5?
- The replay system is literally the same it's been since FM1 (and 2). Same angles and everything.
- Photomode. Just...I'll let out a deep sigh right now because...why? Why is it still so behind? Infamous: Second Son has a better photomode.
There's a lot of potential here but therein lies the crux of the problem: I'm sick to death of game's releasing with potential. I yearn for the days where games released realized, not with the promise of becoming something more over the course of several years.
- 3,998
- Derbyshire, UK
- DG Silva
I've been playing around with Nvidia Freestyle, these are my settings, used with DLAA and 100% scaling:
Colour
Tint colour 33
Tint intensity 30
Temperature -10
Vibrance -10
Details
Sharpen 0
Clarity -26
HDR toning 100 (if using SDR)
Bloom 0
Brightness/contrast
Exposure -8
Contrast 46
Highlights 30
Shadows 10
Gamma -10
There is a little shimmering on distant catch fencing or grandstand lights, but otherwise I think it looks good and natural.
Colour
Tint colour 33
Tint intensity 30
Temperature -10
Vibrance -10
Details
Sharpen 0
Clarity -26
HDR toning 100 (if using SDR)
Bloom 0
Brightness/contrast
Exposure -8
Contrast 46
Highlights 30
Shadows 10
Gamma -10
There is a little shimmering on distant catch fencing or grandstand lights, but otherwise I think it looks good and natural.
- 573
- France
- SUTempest
I feel it. I do. I'm just at the point of begrudging acceptance...
- 28
- Mexico
- mrtestarossa
was playing with some friends earlier around Le Mans, we were all wondering the same. on one corner its planted to the ground but 3 corners later it will kick the rear loose for no reason.
- 17,825
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
You don't have to agree with me, I just need you to understand me. Also yeah, I could tell immediately that you don't understand what I'm complaining about on the count that you're essentially explaining to me things I already know.
Like these factors for instance:
A lot of things are subjective, there are limitations, and a company only has so much time, money, resources, and helping hands to work on a game within a time period. That is not what I'm disappointed with!
Limitations are always a factor, but what a company does with those limitations matters.
I'm disappointed with Turn 10's planning on what they were doing with what they had, that's what I mean when they didn't do enough. There were choices they couldn't made to give FM23 a better launch and they choose not to do that. Events were one option I had an issue with as they have shown already that they're more than capable to adding more events than they did with more variety.
While things can be SUBJECTIVE, there are still factors you can determine what would be the most definitive opinion. In my subjective view for racing events, I use what other racing games including in this franchise as a measuring stick on what they had at launch to compare to this game. FM23 didn't measure up.
For cars and tracks, I can accept the car counts being lower and there was no way I was expecting current-year cars like a lot of people for some reason to expect. However, I did expect them to at least balance their launch car list better.
No, I wasn't ever going to suggest delaying a game as what I'm complaining about at the moment wouldn't require delaying. I'm looking at what I know the company can do easily compared to what they didn't. Forming my opinion based on what other racing games have done including past Forza Motorsport titles.
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