Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Beezer215]

The career disappearing every month certainly allows for a whole new concept to be installed whenever they want. The initial or permanent part could be wiped out as well.
They failed at their own premise they came up with. Builders Cup. That means absolutely nothing. I haven't had to "build" a single car to compete nor have I even had to finish first to progress let alone in the top three.
It's complete nonsense.

We should of had locked car classes in Single Player. You must complete and win to some degree Class E to get to Class D. It's just regular common sense and creating the most basic of a racing game structure. How they got this wrong is baffling.
Instead they just threw middle of the performance pack sports cars at us and we were driving 1000 horse power hypercars before no time. They wouldn't be able to have their FOMO crap but the races, physics and AI battles should be what keeps you coming back. The GAME is the draw, not because something is going to disappear. I turn on AMS2 most of the time because I'm drawn to the racing experience. You don't get credits, you don't get XP, I don't have to buy cars or get licenses. I do a 40 minute race and have a wonderful time. That leads to the phrase - I wanna do that again.
Somebody needs to go to Turn 10, knock everything off of every desk that exists there and yell "do it again". It needs to be stirred up and rethought. The potential is there.

 

[RolexGTP]

Some well said and thought out explanations from Morbid and Beezer. I fully agree with both of yall. The potential and foundation is certainly here in this game but T10 at this point needs to get their heads out their ass and hone in on all these trouble areas better, particularly the single player experience. I mean we're approaching a year in, enough of the slow milking.

 

[Kedmasterz]

At this point they should have a soft relaunch with an entire new solo career with well tailored event and a proper sense of progression.

 

[AttackDickie]

While I agree about improving the solo career and getting rid of the FOMO model, are we sure it's down to T10? I wonder if they have to answer to others with this game. (Or it could simply be that their budget is the same or less than FM7 and they're trying to do something different with the format.) - Although I do think at some point we will get more permanent events, maybe when there are no more cars or new tracks to sell.

 

[Nielsen]

The more I play this game and think back to the enthusiastic pre-release talk from the developers, I can’t help but wonder whether lots of development work for some reason got scrapped. Most underpinnings of the reboot seem identical to FM7. I get the feeling they reached a final straw, gave up on a grander vision and said - Ok, we have some polished content, so let’s just release that on the stable architecture of FM7.

The disappearance of Forza Monthly only adds to this feeling. It’s like something major did not go according to plan and they couldn’t face us again. Those confidently-narrated monthly update trailers have a well-camouflaged aura of damage control about them, giving the illusion everything went exactly to plan, but will we ever see Chris Esaki and Dan Greenawalt again?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good looking game that plays reasonably well, but at the same time it screams to me that some foundational leaps and advances which would warrant the fanfared reboot never came into fruition.

 

[Jezza819]

Tonight as I was starting A class Open I looked at my garage and saw the '18 Mustang was at level 45 so I thought I would use it and get it to 50. It was an A624 car. But as I started the first race at Lime Rock, I figured I would quick upgrade it to A700. BIG MISTAKE!!!!! It totally ruined the car. The car would not stop or turn which is a bad combo to have. I saw that it did gain racing slicks in the upgrade which I guess is responsible for the 624 to 700 jump. But this was the result.

Those first three Mustangs were exactly alike. All of them had big wings and aero and I never ever threatened them despite having that much (supposedly) of a PI advantage. My car just couldn't put it's power down without spinning the tires in almost any gear. I should have the car alone and ran it as is. Now I have to go back and redo the series in something else. But I really don't understand how the car had so much trouble stopping and turning with racing slicks? I thought that was the whole purpose of stickier tires.

 

[Kelpy D]

For those wondering if the Pennzoil R33's rear wing looks "off" compared to the model in the Nissan Heritage Collection, that's cause it's the High Downforce Aero wing that actually existed.

I haven't unlocked it yet, but I'm going to assume the option isn't there; it would be a nice touch if T10 allowed us to switch between the two aero kits under the exterior mods tab.

Esp. considering that Nissan seemed to have kept the actual #23 Nismo Pennzoil car in its championship winning form & the car we have is the #2 Zexel car in its configuration before Nissan turned it into a replica & now use it as a demonstrator due to value of the original car. Additionally, the original car is also now in the hands of the Fuji Motorsport Museum, so it's not likely going to be used again for a long time.

I have checked the car, and sad to say, there are no visual modifications for it.

 

[Terronium-12]

Reinstalled the game not too long ago, played for a bit and, uh, the 919 still handles like that, huh?

The Valkyrie AMR handles exactly how I would expect it to, but the 919 and 963 handle like death machines with individually managed rear axle linkages. Career mode is still...yeah, whatever that is. I uninstalled again. Will try again in another 7 or 8 months?

 

[SDSmurf]

So normally I play on difficulty 8 and achieve the set target laptime and challenge for or win the race.

The C7.R championship however, nowhere near the target time, 'qualifying' all 4 times between 16th and 20th and struggle to get in the top 10.

Thinking it's a rebalance (and a good one, since 8 should in fact be very hard and I'm not that fast actually), it just seems an inconsistency since my results in the class based championships is the same as before.

Do I just utterly suck driving the C7.R?

Oh, I tried downloading a different tune thinking maybe that's why, but no, I can't download tunes as I have no space

 

[ScottPuss20]

Either that, or Microsoft just throws their hands in the air and assigns Playground Games to do a Forza Horizon Sport

If Playground Games was responsible for such a thing, it would feel much better to play on a controller. Forza Motorsport suffers quite a bit in this regard, particularly with high-end supercars and race cars. The steering does not respond fast enough and lacks connection to the road surface, so I find myself missing apexes and jumping on the throttle too soon. Depending on the situation, it can result in either understeer or oversteer, meaning that I have to drive more conservatively. It's a lot harder for me to know the limits of each car and that's what frustrates me the most. The worst thing about it all is that I have to work a lot harder than I would in Forza Horizon, so I end up feeling a lot more tired. When I play a racing game, I want to feel connected to the car and have fun instead of struggling.

 

[notsofast]

It was detailed earlier in this thread by someone else after I posted the (simpler) private lobby version, but I just posted it again in the Update 11 thread:

Free Play - Advanced Event Setup - Drive any car you own or rent anything, then quit the back to the event setup menu, then go to Event Setup - Cars - then find the car from there.

Thanks! I'm liking the Pennzoil car a lot. Feels good around Suzuka and looks pretty special to boot.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

The more I play this game and think back to the enthusiastic pre-release talk from the developers, I can’t help but wonder whether lots of development work for some reason got scrapped. Most underpinnings of the reboot seem identical to FM7. I get the feeling they reached a final straw, gave up on a grander vision and said - Ok, we have some polished content, so let’s just release that on the stable architecture of FM7.

Of course it’s all very much ‘citation needed’, but there’s been multiple reports from people contracted to work at T10 that it was truly being made from scratch, but the timeline to actually get the game out was taking too far long, so they scrambled to get it all into the pre-existing engine which is why it’s so fraught with issues.

 

[Morbid65]

They wouldn't be able to have their FOMO crap but the races, physics and AI battles should be what keeps you coming back. The GAME is the draw, not because something is going to disappear. I turn on AMS2 most of the time because I'm drawn to the racing experience. You don't get credits, you don't get XP, I don't have to buy cars or get licenses. I do a 40 minute race and have a wonderful time. That leads to the phrase - I wanna do that again.

Fully agree. For me the two most important things in a racing game are, by a long long ways, the driving and the racing. If I'm having fun driving the cars, and I'm having fun races where there is battling for position and/or interesting strategy calls, then I couldn't give less of a damn about whether I win credits at the end, or a little gold check mark and some annoying narrator telling me I'm good, or level up my car or whatever.

 

[LumpiestFish]

The more I play this game and think back to the enthusiastic pre-release talk from the developers, I can’t help but wonder whether lots of development work for some reason got scrapped. Most underpinnings of the reboot seem identical to FM7. I get the feeling they reached a final straw, gave up on a grander vision and said - Ok, we have some polished content, so let’s just release that on the stable architecture of FM7.

The disappearance of Forza Monthly only adds to this feeling. It’s like something major did not go according to plan and they couldn’t face us again. Those confidently-narrated monthly update trailers have a well-camouflaged aura of damage control about them, giving the illusion everything went exactly to plan, but will we ever see Chris Esaki and Dan Greenawalt again?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good looking game that plays reasonably well, but at the same time it screams to me that some foundational leaps and advances which would warrant the fanfared reboot never came into fruition.

Yeah I've felt similar for a while. To me, the way the 'car building' system was implemented felt like a really last minute poor idea of 'progression', when they have no other real sense of progression. Absolutely nothing changed about building your car, it was exactly the same as any other Forza game, just with everything unlocked excruciatingly slowly. If they completely revolutionised the games customisation system, maybe I'd be okay with their progression idea, but what they went with was completely lazy.

 

[McLaren]

For those wondering if the Pennzoil R33's rear wing looks "off" compared to the model in the Nissan Heritage Collection, that's cause it's the High Downforce Aero wing that actually existed.View attachment 1381654

I haven't unlocked it yet, but I'm going to assume the option isn't there; it would be a nice touch if T10 allowed us to switch between the two aero kits under the exterior mods tab.

Esp. considering that Nissan seemed to have kept the actual #23 Nismo Pennzoil car in its championship winning form & the car we have is the #2 Zexel car in its configuration before Nissan turned it into a replica & now use it as a demonstrator due to value of the original car. Additionally, the original car is also now in the hands of the Fuji Motorsport Museum, so it's not likely going to be used again for a long time (interesting enough though, the R391 that we got in the Car Pass is also sitting next to the original #23 Nismo car at Fuji).

 

[Nacho Libre]

Well, after the reinstall on PC went so well (without the high-resolution textures), I decided to do the same on the Series X, and I can't honestly tell the difference, and saves me 30+ GB that I can use to install a full game!

 

[AttackDickie]

^^ That showcase showed me they need to rework the AI before any career mode. Playing on difficulty 6 or 7 and starting in 12th place it was a mess! It was a little better setting the difficulty to 5 and starting 24th but I might have just missed the carnage at the start like that. But I think they can improve it, the leading AI are much better and you can get cleaner races when the AI doesn't use lots of upgrades. I wonder if some of the issues come from the way they make the AI at the back weaker and take the wrong lines, which isn't so bad on lower difficulties or with slow cars but when they try to push on the higher difficulties or in powerful cars it's chaos.

 

[deththrasher]

Well, after the reinstall on PC went so well (without the high-resolution textures), I decided to do the same on the Series X, and I can't honestly tell the difference, and saves me 30+ GB that I can use to install a full game!

The high resolution textures download make no sense, the road and grass textures look lower res than FM7 lol

 

[skazz]

The high resolution textures download make no sense, the road and grass textures look lower res than FM7 lol

While you are right that the textures themselves appear lower res, it depends on your Dynamic Render Quality setting on the PC at least.

Furthermore, when you have DRQ at Ultra the road and grass textures are used with tessellation and ambient occlusion and grass gets more 3d objects. Still looks a bit weird, but the 3d effect from the tessellation is quite decent. Unfortunately, DRQ Ultra drops the frame rate quite a bit compared to High setting, and it's not used on the Xbox.

 

[Nacho Libre]

While you are right that the textures themselves appear lower res, it depends on your Dynamic Render Quality setting on the PC at least.

Furthermore, when you have DRQ at Ultra the road and grass textures are used with tessellation and ambient occlusion and grass gets more 3d objects. Still looks a bit weird, but the 3d effect from the tessellation is quite decent. Unfortunately, DRQ Ultra drops the frame rate quite a bit compared to High setting, and it's not used on the Xbox.

I'm using DRQ at high on PC for 1440p. I used to increase the resolution scale beyond 100% to get a sharper image, but after the latest update/reinstall and without the textures package, I don't really need to. Now the only setting I tweak is anisotropic filtering at 16x.

Anyways, I'm trying to play a racing game, not a grass and gravel simulator game!

 

[Hasse 86]

Of course it’s all very much ‘citation needed’, but there’s been multiple reports from people contracted to work at T10 that it was truly being made from scratch, but the timeline to actually get the game out was taking too far long, so they scrambled to get it all into the pre-existing engine which is why it’s so fraught with issues.

@Nielsen I know that it's been said countless times before, but we probably shouldn't underestimate how much trouble the pandemic caused during important phases of the development of FM '23. Chris Esaki himself called it "The Dark Souls of game development". Who knows how many corners that had to be cut to still make it in a reasonable timeline? Perhaps I'm naive, but I still hope FM '23 will have a Cyberpunk or No Man's Sky redemption arc, but we'll see I guess.

@ScottPuss20 I'm playing on a wheel, so I don't know much about the controller support personally, but I thought most people considered it to be one of FM '23's prime fortes. At least in comparison to GT7 and other simcades/sims. That's what I've heard from people like JSR Devon at least 🤔

 

[UKMikey]

@ScottPuss20 I'm playing on a wheel, so I don't know much about the controller support personally, but I thought most people considered it to be one of FM '23's prime fortes. At least in comparison to GT7 and other simcades/sims. That's what I've heard from people like JSR Devon at least 🤔

I could be wrong about this, but to me the difference between the controller support in Horizon and Motorsport, if any, is that Horizon is built around the player experience and FM strives for realism. Thus, the huge majority of vehicles in Horizon are easy to control while the ones in this game depend on the setup, tyre grip, weight and other factors.

Cars with a high handling stat are very easy to corner for me, others not so much. I don't see this as a fault of the controller implementation but an approximation of "real" life as interpreted by Motorsport's physics. If a car is a hulking behemoth then it's harder to slow down for the turn.

 

[Jezza819]

I ran that A Open series again this time in the Hyundai Veloster TCR which is what I originally intended to use before switching to that awful Mustang. This time I won. But the AI field was different. There was only one of the GT-350R Mustangs instead of three. Last time the three of them just joined up and flew away. Seems like I've seen that before where two or three of the exact same AI cars almost become invincible and sprint off but if it's just one, they're normal.

 

[RolexGTP]

It's AI inconsistencies, which is the next thing they need to address in an update. Sometimes they give great close racing or fly away from you if you make a mistake as they should. Then the next thing you know a different car or track happens and they drive like newbies who just got a drivers license. It's certain tracks I notice too where they are slower and dumber and then faster, smarter and more competitive on other tracks. It should be no matter the car, track, weather or division combo the AI should drive the same each and everytime based on difficulty choice.

 

[Jezza819]

Tonight I finally got around to buying the Cadillac LMDh. Is there something wrong with this car? It's awful. Instead of a race car it handles more like this Cadillac. It feels like it's steering ratio is way off.



I'm going to have to find a tune for it so if anyone has any suggestions of a tune I would appreciate it.

 

[DG_Silva]

Tonight I finally got around to buying the Cadillac LMDh. Is there something wrong with this car? It's awful. Instead of a race car it handles more like this Cadillac. It feels like it's steering ratio is way off.



I'm going to have to find a tune for it so if anyone has any suggestions of a tune I would appreciate it.

I generally tend to run 3/4 front aero, 2/3 rear aero and drop the steering ratio down to about 80% - this makes the maximum lock a lot smaller. There's a few other things such as decreasing the front anti roll bar to around the same as the rear.

 

[Morbid65]

Tonight I finally got around to buying the Cadillac LMDh. Is there something wrong with this car? It's awful. Instead of a race car it handles more like this Cadillac. It feels like it's steering ratio is way off.



I'm going to have to find a tune for it so if anyone has any suggestions of a tune I would appreciate it.

Yeah there is something wrong with it. It doesn't really feel like a prototype at all, but rather a fast GT car. When you compare it to the 963 it doesn't even feel like they are part of the same class really, although the lap times aren't wildly different.

Its default setup is kinda weird, particularly the toe values that are wild. I haven't exactly figured out how to "fix" it completely, but made it a lot better by basically setting it up like a FWD car in FM7. Max front aero, minimum rear aero, swaybars at 1 front and 40 rear, 80+/0 in the diff, and then I cranked some anti-squat into it. Do that stuff to any other modern prototype and it will be undriveable, but the Cadillac will still understeer... just not nearly as bad.

I don't totally hate it really though, kinda. Like yeah it isn't as "sharp" as a prototype should be, but it also means it isn't as edgy feeling and it's incredibly stable. That means, depending on the circuit a bit, it can be a little less... stressful or tiring to drive or something, when compared to the other modern LMP1/DPi etc... But then at other circuits it's just frustrating to drive because you are fighting the lack of rotation the whole time.

The Caddy DPi is a much more "normal" prototype experience.

 

[sirjim73]

One thing the double car featured tour exposes this month is the game's extremely tight fuel economy. A 9 minute race earns approx 18k credits including Podium bonus AND VIP bonus (12k if you don't have VIP). Which means just to buy the 2 cars this week at a 30% discount you have to drive for 3 hours. And therefore you will need to drive for another 9 hours to buy the other 6 cars (even at the 30% discount).

Normally, completing the Open Tour and the Featured Tour as they unlock will earn you just about enough to buy one featured car for each week. This month, it's IMPOSSIBLE to buy the 8 cars just by completing the Open Tour and the Featured Tour events alone EVEN WITH VIP. You will HAVE to either rerun Tour events or run some other races.

 

[UKMikey]

Normally, completing the Open Tour and the Featured Tour as they unlock will earn you just about enough to buy one featured car for each week. This month, it's IMPOSSIBLE to buy the 8 cars just by completing the Open Tour and the Featured Tour events alone EVEN WITH VIP. You will HAVE to either rerun Tour events or run some other races.

I wouldn't mind but these Cadillacs weren't fun to drive at all for me. I'm considering selling them for funds for next week's tour and also to reduce car cruft in my virtual garage.

I wish we had a choice of makes/marques for these tours but suspect GM paid good money for exclusive placements in this week's events.

 

[Jezza819]

Yeah there is something wrong with it. It doesn't really feel like a prototype at all, but rather a fast GT car. When you compare it to the 963 it doesn't even feel like they are part of the same class really, although the lap times aren't wildly different.

Its default setup is kinda weird, particularly the toe values that are wild. I haven't exactly figured out how to "fix" it completely, but made it a lot better by basically setting it up like a FWD car in FM7. Max front aero, minimum rear aero, swaybars at 1 front and 40 rear, 80+/0 in the diff, and then I cranked some anti-squat into it. Do that stuff to any other modern prototype and it will be undriveable, but the Cadillac will still understeer... just not nearly as bad.

I don't totally hate it really though, kinda. Like yeah it isn't as "sharp" as a prototype should be, but it also means it isn't as edgy feeling and it's incredibly stable. That means, depending on the circuit a bit, it can be a little less... stressful or tiring to drive or something, when compared to the other modern LMP1/DPi etc... But then at other circuits it's just frustrating to drive because you are fighting the lack of rotation the whole time.

The Caddy DPi is a much more "normal" prototype experience.

I ran both the DPi and the LMDh around Road Atlanta last night. I ran the DPi before I bought the LMDh. Partially because I had not ran the car in a long time and also to give a reference to the LMDh. You're right, the DPi is more on point. Feels like a proper prototype even in bone stock no tuning which is how I run all cars. One negative was that I could not use 2nd gear to come out of turn 7. It will spin the car out every time. So 2nd gear is off limits.

With the LMDh I didn't practice the car first I just jumped into a race. Went to take my normal turn in for turn 1 and it just started heading towards the red Georgia clay off track. But at turn 7 you can use 2nd gear I just had to take one hand off the wheel to get enough steering lock to make that turn. I might try to tinker with it even though I really don't like doing that or possibly look in the tune shop but probably most of those take it to the top of P which I also didn't want to do. Or just sell it back.