Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[skazz]

Lol, yes it is. You are all going to be severely disappointed if you expect anything from Jordan in this beyond his brand logo which is only there b/c it operates Luka Doncic's brand.

This is to advertise Luka Doncic's shoe line which he just released the Luka 3 Speedway; there is a very specific reason the car is a Camaro.

You are probably right for Motorsport. But there is a little hope we get more (or at least a theme) in FH5 that month.

 

[McLaren]

You are probably right for Motorsport. But there is a little hope we get more (or at least a theme) in FH5 that month.

Luka's brand giving the car to both games is only to represent his brand.

If other cars appear outside Luka's in FH5, it's something completely different.

 

[Nacho Libre]

After hearing Phil Spencer's statements today, it seems that Forza Motorsport, as so many other Xbox Games titles, are not (and will not be) judged on sales performance alone but on their engagement performance (akin to viewership numbers on the streaming services). We don't really know the engagement numbers of FM in Game Pass (Steam doesn't matter, is akin to sales), but it seems they are enough to keep the updates coming... So, keep playing y'all!
And it's entirely possible that FM could land someday in PlayStation as any property in their portfolio, if there is a case for it.

 

[nukleabomb]

After hearing Phil Spencer's statements today, it seems that Forza Motorsport, as so many other Xbox Games titles, are not (and will not be) judged on sales performance alone but on their engagement performance (akin to viewership numbers on the streaming services). We don't really know the engagement numbers of FM in Game Pass (Steam doesn't matter, is akin to sales), but it seems they are enough to keep the updates coming... So, keep playing y'all!
And it's entirely possible that FM could land someday in PlayStation as any property in their portfolio, if there is a case for it.

Makes me wonder if they're saving a few (ready) tracks and the newer FH5 cars as a "break glass in case of emergency" update.

Gamescom would have been a great time to announce a year 2 roadmap for the game.

 

[skazz]

Makes me wonder if they're saving a few (ready) tracks and the newer FH5 cars as a "break glass in case of emergency" update.

Gamescom would have been a great time to announce a year 2 roadmap for the game.

"The game will still get monthly updates consisting of any stuff which is ready". There, that's your year 2 roadmap

 

[Nacho Libre]

Makes me wonder if they're saving a few (ready) tracks and the newer FH5 cars as a "break glass in case of emergency" update.

Gamescom would have been a great time to announce a year 2 roadmap for the game.

I don't think they would shut down Turn 10 studio outright, but a merger with Playground Games (which is the primary user of the Forza engine, past and future) would make more sense going forward. Playground Games IMO could provide a less dry/barebones direction to the game. I've stated this before, but racing needs a festive/lively atmosphere around it, like Grid Legends does.

 

[nukleabomb]

I don't think they would shut down Turn 10 studio outright, but a merger with Playground Games (which is the primary user of the Forza engine, past and future) would make more sense going forward. Playground Games IMO could provide a less dry/barebones direction to the game. I've stated this before, but racing needs a festive/lively atmosphere around it, like Grid Legends does.

Rip Grid Legends

Would love to see the concept with a much larger scale. (maybe revive PGR to do it)

 

[sirjim73]

It's more likely just the 1st option.
Barret Jackson pack was sold as a car pack, so I would think multiple cars would be showcased if it was more than one car.


What's weird is that FM removed all the 'fun' cars including the racing trucks, to "focus on motorsport" and the first major collaboration is a widebody muscle car, which is ideal for drag racing or drifting (both of which don't have gamemodes in the game).

T10 needs to get their priorities straight.

That's because, in my opinion, this began most likely as just a Horizon showcase, and the Motorsport showcase has been tacked on afterwards.

 

[PJTierney]

Rip Grid Legends

😢

 

[Beebo]

Makes me wonder if they're saving a few (ready) tracks and the newer FH5 cars as a "break glass in case of emergency" update.

Gamescom would have been a great time to announce a year 2 roadmap for the game.

Just a roadmap or future plan at any time would be nice really, there's no reason for me to play the FM career over lots of other racers and it'd be nice to know if they were at least considering a career revamp. Lots of people (understandably) want the FOMO events to come to career permanently but I don't think that will help the extremely stale nature of it.

 

[nukleabomb]

Just a roadmap or future plan at any time would be nice really, there's no reason for me to play the FM career over lots of other racers and it'd be nice to know if they were at least considering a career revamp. Lots of people (understandably) want the FOMO events to come to career permanently but I don't think that will help the extremely stale nature of it.

The problem is that these events are just basic championships, with a simple theme.

Take this month's Road to Race theme, for example. It is a set of championships that is locked to one car per championship, and has a fixed tire wear multiplier. They are in pairs (C7-C7R, 458-458GTC etc.).

But, the game is also getting multiclass racing. So what if, instead, they had made the Road to Race, a multiclass themed championship. All the restrictions remain the same, but the race car versions and road cars are in the same race, but different buckets. 12 cars as GT3/GTC whatever, and 12 as road cars. It would feel a bit fresh, without actually changing much.
That way, they could also have made it more interesting by making it a choice between racecar and road car for each championship, and showcased 8 pairs of cars over 8 championships (instead of 4 pairs over 8 as it is right now).

Forza GT
C7 Z06 / C7R
458 Italia / 458 GTC
Huracan / Huracan Super Trofeo
911 GT3RS / 911 GT3R

(could also have done Vantage GT12/Vantage GT3 (or) M8/M8GTE (or) C8 Z06/C8R etc.)

Forza Touring Car
RS3 / RS3 LMS
MG6 / MG6 TCR
L&Co 03+ / L&Co 03 TCR
A45 AMG /A class TCR

(could also have done Veloster N / Veloster TCR)

Modern Factory Racers
599 GTO (bring it back) / 599XX Evo (F40/F40C, F50/F50GT, LaFerrari/FXXK Evo)
X Bow R / X Bow GT2
Aventador SVJ / SCV12 (Huracan/Sesto Elemento)
P1 / P1 GTR (F1/F1GT)


Etc.


It would have added a small element of uniqueness when compared to all the other updates.

 

[TheOE]

The problem is that these events are just basic championships, with a simple theme.

Take this month's Road to Race theme, for example. It is a set of championships that is locked to one car per championship, and has a fixed tire wear multiplier. They are in pairs (C7-C7R, 458-458GTC etc.).

But, the game is also getting multiclass racing. So what if, instead, they had made the Road to Race, a multiclass themed championship. All the restrictions remain the same, but the race car versions and road cars are in the same race, but different buckets. 12 cars as GT3/GTC whatever, and 12 as road cars. It would feel a bit fresh, without actually changing much.
That way, they could also have made it more interesting by making it a choice between racecar and road car for each championship, and showcased 8 pairs of cars over 8 championships (instead of 4 pairs over 8 as it is right now).

Forza GT
C7 Z06 / C7R
458 Italia / 458 GTC
Huracan / Huracan Super Trofeo
911 GT3RS / 911 GT3R

(could also have done Vantage GT12/Vantage GT3 (or) M8/M8GTE (or) C8 Z06/C8R etc.)

Forza Touring Car
RS3 / RS3 LMS
MG6 / MG6 TCR
L&Co 03+ / L&Co 03 TCR
A45 AMG /A class TCR

(could also have done Veloster N / Veloster TCR)

Modern Factory Racers
599 GTO (bring it back) / 599XX Evo (F40/F40C, F50/F50GT, LaFerrari/FXXK Evo)
X Bow R / X Bow GT2
Aventador SVJ / SCV12 (Huracan/Sesto Elemento)
P1 / P1 GTR (F1/F1GT)


Etc.


It would have added a small element of uniqueness when compared to all the other updates.

I would bet on people complaining even more than they do now, because you are competing in cars that have never shared the track in real life.

 

[nukleabomb]

I would bet on people complaining even more than they do now, because you are competing in cars that have never shared the track in real life.

Multiclass events were present in FM4's career mode, and they were great fun. I think having more creative events like these make sense for FM.

And besides, the game already has a lot of violations of "that would never be allowed in real life". There's already an insane amount of class mixups.

 

[GTvsForza]

I recreate the FM4 Multi-Class events in Free-Play, very fun to do.

 

[ykiki]

Anyone get the Duracell race suit yet? I submitted a copy of my receipt on Sunday and the automated reply said I'd hear back within 48 hours. So far, nothing...

 

[Jezza819]

Both of the Ferrari races had some of the worst AI behavior I've seen in a long time. The brake checking was unbelievable.

 

[NotThePrez]

So, it seems the Pennzoil Skyline R33 is the only car in the GTX Sportscars Division that actually gets full racing tires by default. That's imo a pretty solid trade-off for it's relative lack of straight-line speed.

 

[Morbid65]

It's more likely just the 1st option.
Barret Jackson pack was sold as a car pack, so I would think multiple cars would be showcased if it was more than one car.


What's weird is that FM removed all the 'fun' cars including the racing trucks, to "focus on motorsport" and the first major collaboration is a widebody muscle car, which is ideal for drag racing or drifting (both of which don't have gamemodes in the game).

T10 needs to get their priorities straight.

I think a widebody muscle car can be just as suited to road racing as for drifting, and drag racing doesn't really see much widebody stuff as going wider isn't going to help straight line speed. This one looks more like a show car than a widebody track car, but hopefully it will work out okay for road racing... but maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic because I like Camaros.

Fully agree it's a strange/disappointing "partnership" though and probably not something most FM8 players really want when it comes to cars being added to the game. Hell I don't even know what a Luka Dundridge or whatever is.

Someone a few pages back mentioned wondering if stuff like the Mobil 1/Gillette/etc driving suits for product placement are things that bring T10 some advertising income, and I suppose this could be put in a similar category. Personally, I can't imagine companies paying much (if anything) to have a driving suit or whatever in an underperforming niche racing game, but if somehow T10 have tricked companies out of some money, it's not a terrible outcome for us. We get some free crap in trade for ignoring a message in our in-game inbox.

One thing I think is kinda interesting though is that both games are getting it. I know it's not quite as easy as just "copy from FH5 into FM8" so maybe the fact that they are arriving at roughly the same time in both games means there as been some kind of aligning on the technical side and we might be seeing more cars come to both games at the same time in the future? Trying to be positive about this...

 

[skazz]

For those unaware it’s just the same thing as the Barbie movie tie-in we got in FH5 a while back. We gained an electric Corvette and Hummer from their movie presence. Now we gain a Camaro for the shoe launch tie-in

 

[breeminator]

Playground Games IMO could provide a less dry/barebones direction to the game.

It honestly astounds me just how inept T10 appears to be compared to PG, and to be clear, I have no connection to either company or anyone who is connected with either company.

In FM, there are 3 main things you can do:
1. Rivals
2. Races against AI
3. Races against humans

For some reason, they lock the FOMO cars behind doing just one of these 3 things, races against AI.

Firstly, this makes no sense due to being annoying for people who prefer one or both of the other two modes. Why force people to play game modes they don't want to?

Secondly, if a game is going to force people into a particular mode, it makes far more sense for that to be a multiplayer mode, as multiplayer thrives on player numbers, so forcing people into multiplayer helps to prevent that aspect from feeling dead. Examples of popular games that do this are Rocket League and Counter-Strike, where to get cosmetics each week you have to do multiplayer, you can't make progress in AI modes.

The FH5 playlist, in contrast, allows people great freedom to choose how they play the game. I have 52 points in this week's playlist, more than even the higher number of 40 needed to get the 2nd car, and I got those points without doing a single championship against AI, because I hate those, the one thing FM forces me to do. One mode in FH5 I find particularly fun if the other racers are clean, which they were this time, is the Trial. Why isn't there a Trial in FM? It could also have drift zones and speed zones as part of a playlist to get the FOMO cars, just like FH.

Or they could go the other way, and make FM an e-sport where all players have access to all functional items, I'd be fine with that. But if they're going to have FOMO functional items, at least learn something from FH and do it well.

FH5 has a new game mode coming. I don't think it's the sort of thing that will hugely interest me, but at least it's some actual new gameplay unlike FM's monthly updates so far.

 

[Kedmasterz]

« it makes far more sense for that to be a multiplayer mode, as multiplayer thrives on player numbers, so forcing people into multiplayer helps to prevent that aspect from feeling dead. »

If they do that it’s insta deinstall for me, and I’m pretty sure I won’t be alone.

 

[AttackDickie]

but if somehow T10 have tricked companies out of some money,

Wouldn't be the first time they've tricked people out of money.. 😬

And if they still need to, they should give some of it to Stellantis so I can get my Alfa Giulia TZ2 & Lancia Stratos back.
Although I'm sure that's just down to them drip-feeding content back into the game to justify their FOMO antics.

 

[Stang616]

« it makes far more sense for that to be a multiplayer mode, as multiplayer thrives on player numbers, so forcing people into multiplayer helps to prevent that aspect from feeling dead. »

If they do that it’s insta deinstall for me, and I’m pretty sure I won’t be alone.

Yep me too. I have little interest in the multiplayer aspect. I'd rather just keep it in single player. If it was all multiplayer forced I'm sure it would be dead already.

 

[breeminator]

« it makes far more sense for that to be a multiplayer mode, as multiplayer thrives on player numbers, so forcing people into multiplayer helps to prevent that aspect from feeling dead. »

If they do that it’s insta deinstall for me, and I’m pretty sure I won’t be alone.

The games I mentioned only force people to play multiplayer to obtain cosmetics, so anyone who doesn't want to play multiplayer isn't missing out on anything functional.

A game can also encourage, but not force, people to play multiplayer, e.g. in FH5 the Trial is a very time-efficient way to obtain playlist points. It provides an incentive to do it, but nobody has to do it if they don't want to.

Across the whole population, looking at player numbers on Steam, it's hard to come to any conclusion other than multiplayer generally being far more popular than single player. So I still believe it makes a lot more sense for any incentives to encourage people in that direction. I'm not in favour of functional items being unavailable to anyone at all, but locking them behind lengthy sets of single player races against terrible AI seems particularly stupid.

 

[AttackDickie]

The multi-class series' might tempt me back into multiplayer at some point.

 

[Jezza819]

« it makes far more sense for that to be a multiplayer mode, as multiplayer thrives on player numbers, so forcing people into multiplayer helps to prevent that aspect from feeling dead. »

If they do that it’s insta deinstall for me, and I’m pretty sure I won’t be alone.

Yeah you try and force me into multiplayer? I'm not doing that.

 

[PJTierney]

Across the whole population, looking at player numbers on Steam, it's hard to come to any conclusion other than multiplayer generally being far more popular than single player.

Achievement data says otherwise, for Forza Motorsport.

I dug up some numbers recently.

Based on Achievement unlock percentages, only 11% of players have completed a Featured Multiplayer race: In the Big Leagues achievement in Forza Motorsport 2

Meanwhile 39% have completed the Career Tutorial: Welcome to Builders Cup achievement in Forza Motorsport 1

24% have completed 1 Series in Career: Built Not Bought achievement in Forza Motorsport

9% have completed 1 Tour: Just Getting Started achievement in Forza Motorsport

I think having the “just started the game” equivalent in there (do the Career Tutorial) can help for comparison. Having that 39% be the benchmark of “people who actually played the game” instead of looking at the 100% which includes all the people who installed but never put time in.

Based on this, 39% did the tutorial and 11% did multiplayer, so one potential assumption is that 28% of the people that started Career eventually went on to Multiplayer.

It’s not an exact science as there’ll be some who skip single player entirely, but just trying to make a little sense of things.

It is a bit concerning however that only 23% of the people who did the Career tutorial eventually went on to complete 1 Tour. I would imagine that’s the first Tour on the list so one would imagine the “FOMO Tours” were completed by even fewer people, making these reward cars that much rarer. You’d think given they are essentially the incentive to come back to the game that more people would have done them. This data gives us a clue that this approach may not be working.

In most games Single Player Career tends to be the most popular game mode, often over 50% of the active playerbase engaging with it.

Forza Horizon 5 is a bit of an outlier because you can play the entire career online if you want, and by default the game places you in the online world for freeroam.

 

[breeminator]

Achievement data says otherwise, for Forza Motorsport.

But it's a game that forces you to do single player to unlock the FOMO cars, so we can expect that people who like that will play it, and people who don't like it won't. So the player base is pre-filtered by the nature of the game to select for people who like the single player races against AI.

Looking at the most played games on Steam, it seems like multiplayer games dominate. CS2, Dota 2, PUBG, Apex Legends, I think those are all games where there's basically nothing to do other than multiplayer? Rocket League's player count across all platforms would also be up there, between Dota 2 and CS2, and again it really has nothing other than multiplayer.

 

[UKMikey]

But it's a game that forces you to do single player to unlock the FOMO cars, so we can expect that people who like that will play it, and people who don't like it won't. So the player base is pre-filtered by the nature of the game to select for people who like the single player races against AI.

Looking at the most played games on Steam, it seems like multiplayer games dominate. CS2, Dota 2, PUBG, Apex Legends, I think those are all games where there's basically nothing to do other than multiplayer? Rocket League's player count across all platforms would also be up there, between Dota 2 and CS2, and again it really has nothing other than multiplayer.

I'm not sure how representative Steam players are of the Forza playerbase. What percentage of people play the game on PC?

 

[NotThePrez]

The multi-class series' might tempt me back into multiplayer at some point.

I've primarily been doing the Endurance series, but the Multi-Class events are great fun when things go well.

That alone has gotten me to play the game more now than I ever have since launch.