Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Morbid65]

I know it's easy for us to demand when we don't have to do the work, but I do think the game needs more content added in these updates. Besides the fact that it would add a little more excitement to the game overall and make it feel like its progressing better, that new content could be utilized to help make the grind less tedious... kinda.

Having more new cars in the update as "Featured" cars would give us something new to play with each week, and that content lining up with the Featured Career thing for that week would help. Then at least we would have a fresh car to level up in the Featured Tour and customize to use for the otherwise boring same-y feeling events.

When you boot up the game after an update and can't use any of the new stuff until you grind, it makes it feel like there isn't actually anything fresh or new and interesting. Figuring out a way to let us actually use the new content to do things would be a big positive step forward.

The way the game sits now, we basically have do 20+ races using old content to unlock 1 new car, and then that car gets 1 Showcase race and then... possibly nothing. Using the JGTC Skyline as an example, it has no rivals in the game to set up Free Play races with, the GTX hopper hasn't been in rotation for multiplayer, and because many people don't have it you can't even really do anything in private lobbies with it either other than abuse the trick to drive locked cars. At least the Aston will be able to be used in the GT2 hopper which is regularly in rotation.

I'm guessing this FOMO stuff isn't going anywhere though, as universally unpopular as it is, and T10 continue to show a lack of creativity and very little willingness to experiment, so might as well settle in.

The 6× accelerated tyre wear adds another level of aggravation for me.

You can just turn off the tire wear thing in difficulty and not have to worry about it. I did it for the Endurance Series thing because I didn't want to babysit the controller to tell the car to make a pit stop when I was having the AI drive for me.

Personally though, the tire wear strategy stuff is the only part of these that I find engaging at all as at least there is some mental stimulation trying to figure out the optimal strategy and it can be fun to see if you can make an alternate strategy work... Still not engaging enough for me to actually do more than one or two of them myself though, as I can get the strategy stuff in multiplayer as well where I can actually have a good/interesting/exciting race at the same time.

This is kinda part of the problem with all the complaining about Career content though too... Everyone talks about expanding the Career as if it's this no-brainer thing to do and totally unreasonable that they haven't so far, but everyone wants different things. If they do the same stuff over and over some complain it's boring, and if they do something like add tire wear to make it more interesting and introduce strategy to otherwise brainless monotonous events, some complain. They will never be able to please the different types of players in their playerbase, so it kinda seems that people would be better off just making their own events in Free Play where they can turn off tire wear or only drive race cars or never have to drive in the rain or whatever else they want... but for some reason Free Play isn't acceptable to many people.

 

[Ryan81]

I can't really get very excited about the monthly FM23 updates. Majority of the cars just don't interest me. On the other hand, I'm caught in the whole FOMO world of not wanting to miss out on content, regardless of whether I use it or not.
The whole timed aspect is just not something I'm keen on. For example, I have to now go and complete the Nemesis Tour before it expires on Wednesday 🙄 not to mention I haven't even started the Open Class series....

 

[UKMikey]

This is kinda part of the problem with all the complaining about Career content though too... Everyone talks about expanding the Career as if it's this no-brainer thing to do and totally unreasonable that they haven't so far, but everyone wants different things. If they do the same stuff over and over some complain it's boring, and if they do something like add tire wear to make it more interesting and introduce strategy to otherwise brainless monotonous events, some complain.

There was no strategy involved though. The races aren't long enough to force pitting in and the AI just power on through on medium tyres.

 

[syphe]

This is kinda part of the problem with all the complaining about Career content though too... Everyone talks about expanding the Career as if it's this no-brainer thing to do and totally unreasonable that they haven't so far, but everyone wants different things. If they do the same stuff over and over some complain it's boring, and if they do something like add tire wear to make it more interesting and introduce strategy to otherwise brainless monotonous events, some complain. They will never be able to please the different types of players in their playerbase, so it kinda seems that people would be better off just making their own events in Free Play where they can turn off tire wear or only drive race cars or never have to drive in the rain or whatever else they want... but for some reason Free Play isn't acceptable to many people.

This hits the nail on the head. I think it's a mis-step that they haven't kept the featured tours in rotation some how, like some kind of legacy tour, but I can certainly see why it hasn't been done already. Personally I was quite happy with the career size at launch, it provided a good size for me personally, striking a balance between single player and multiplayer content. I have a job, 2 kids, the size of the career meant I didn't feel too pressured to smash through the career mode so I could get to the multiplayer events, and instead could juggle both the single player and multiplayer content at my own pace.

I'm hopeful that they will find a solution, my feeling is that it is a technical problem, maybe related to the size of the app bundle and included cut-scenes, or maybe it's just some stubborn CVP who doesn't want to admit defeat. Regardless, the constant chat around FOMO events is exhausting, and I'll be glad when it's a thing of the past

 

[breeminator]

Everyone talks about expanding the Career as if it's this no-brainer thing to do and totally unreasonable that they haven't so far, but everyone wants different things.

To some extent, yes, but this can be addressed with a combination of offering different types of race, and allowing people to do the ones they like, rather than forcing them to do things they don't like to obtain FOMO cars.

How does GT7 address these issues?

1. You have events that are significantly different:

Tokyo with identical conditions each time, starting wet and drying out
Sardegna with identical conditions each time, dry and sunny all the way
Le Mans with random conditions, mix of dry and wet
Spa with twice the duration, random conditions, mix of dry and wet

Personally, Tokyo was always my favourite as the identical conditions each time mean you can compare your total race time, but some people liked Le Mans, others liked Sardegna.

2. The FOMO cars are all bought with credits, meaning you can do any race you want, as they all pay credits, and credits are all you need.

So in this way GT7 has the two elements needed to cater for people wanting different things. A range of events to appeal to different tastes, and FOMO cars obtained with a currency that you can obtain by doing the things that appeal to you personally.

Setting up races in free play doesn't achieve the same thing in FM because you'll never get long forum threads where people share their setups and race times if the race isn't offered as a fixed race by the game itself, and also, you can't obtain the FOMO cars that way in FM.

(You may ask - why don't I just play GT7? I prefer FM's physics and the fact I can run it on my PC)

 

[Morbid65]

There was no strategy involved though. The races aren't long enough to force pitting in and the AI just power on through on medium tyres.

But if you still don't have to pit, how is the tire wear multiplier a problem then? Not trying to be difficult about it, I just haven't done this Featured Tour yet so I was assuming it was like the Endurance ones where the wear was aggressive enough you had a few different options.

The public lobbies run at 6x tire wear though so yeah I guess it wouldn't work out to be very interesting if the career races are around 8 minutes or so like normal. In public lobbies, softs usually last like 6-8 mins depending on track, so I guess the challenge could be making the softs last, and the softs being fast early and slow late if they wear versus the consistent pace of the mediums, but if the AI just stick to mediums and you are the only one doing anything different then it isn't as intriguing.

To some extent, yes, but this can be addressed with a combination of offering different types of race, and allowing people to do the ones they like, rather than forcing them to do things they don't like to obtain FOMO cars.

How does GT7 address these issues?

1. You have events that are significantly different:

Tokyo with identical conditions each time, starting wet and drying out
Sardegna with identical conditions each time, dry and sunny all the way
Le Mans with random conditions, mix of dry and wet
Spa with twice the duration, random conditions, mix of dry and wet

Personally, Tokyo was always my favourite as the identical conditions each time mean you can compare your total race time, but some people liked Le Mans, others liked Sardegna.

2. The FOMO cars are all bought with credits, meaning you can do any race you want, as they all pay credits, and credits are all you need.

So in this way GT7 has the two elements needed to cater for people wanting different things. A range of events to appeal to different tastes, and FOMO cars obtained with a currency that you can obtain by doing the things that appeal to you personally.

Setting up races in free play doesn't achieve the same thing in FM because you'll never get long forum threads where people share their setups and race times if the race isn't offered as a fixed race by the game itself, and also, you can't obtain the FOMO cars that way in FM.

(You may ask - why don't I just play GT7? I prefer FM's physics and the fact I can run it on my PC)

Switching to a different model to earn the FOMO cars that allows some freedom in how you earn them would be a massive improvement, as we have gone over in this thread a few times.

I'm not sure the credit thing would create the "engagement" T10 are looking for though, as the economies in these games have always been pretty screwed up for a variety of different reasons depending on the title. Changing to a "points" system like FH5 has could work though, and you earn points from doing basically anything in the game. Earn points for each race you do based on how long it is, whether it's in multiplayer, free play or career. Rivals mode could offer a point for setting a time in the top 50%, 2 points for top 25%, 3 for top 10%, etc to incentivize people to spend a little time and try harder to get up the board. It would be cool to find a way to reward people for making and sharing cool liveries too, but that would probably just result in a flood of zero-effort liveries.

Making the time limited content locked behind the points instead of the Tours would then free the Tours up to stay permanent as well. Their main purpose would just be to provide some new career stuff to do for people who want to earn their points for the FOMO cars through career mode.

I know one problem with doing FOMO stuff on normal currency is that people save up, then log on, buy the new stuff and play with it for 20 mins and then turn the game off until the next update, which doesn't help their "engagement" numbers much and often leads to price creeping up. Generally, people who do a lot of multiplayer will have more credits as the races are more replayable and those who do organized multiplayer often do practice/test sessions with friends and rack up a bunch of credits. I'm sitting at 56mil right now so I'd absolutely love the ability to just buy the FOMO cars with credits and skip the awful career garbage. I suppose the ones who already have the credits in hand likely play enough to drive up the engagement numbers already so it wouldn't be any loss for them if we didn't have to slog through the career for a few hours, and the ones who don't play much at all would still have to put the extra time in.

I was speaking more about free play as a separate issue from the FOMO stuff. Lots of the career complaints are that it isn't big enough, and while I do understand/sympathize to some extent, free play allows everyone to race endlessly. Sure, you don't get a fancy little gold sticker after you complete a free play race, and I guess that's where I disconnect. I race because I enjoy it, so if races are fun then I race, if they aren't fun then a gold sticker at the end won't make them fun and instead I will do something else.

The sharing of times and tunes and stuff is something I haven't seen since like Gran Turismo 3 or something though (although I haven't owned a GT game since 6, and only venture to that part of the forum for the photo threads), we used to do that as we had no multiplayer. While it's a nice idea, I don't really see it happening much in the modern era... Although that does raise another question for T10: what happened to the career leaderboards? In FM1 (or was it 2? or both?) it used to compare your time to complete the races in the career with your friends, if I remember right both for the individual races and the combined times for the series. That could be a good (and seemingly somewhat simple) way to make the career more engaging for some people.

 

[UKMikey]

But if you still don't have to pit, how is the tire wear multiplier a problem then? Not trying to be difficult about it, I just haven't done this Featured Tour yet so I was assuming it was like the Endurance ones where the wear was aggressive enough you had a few different options.

It forces you onto slippier tyres.

 

[Ande3200]

To some extent, yes, but this can be addressed with a combination of offering different types of race, and allowing people to do the ones they like, rather than forcing them to do things they don't like to obtain FOMO cars.

How does GT7 address these issues?

1. You have events that are significantly different:

Tokyo with identical conditions each time, starting wet and drying out
Sardegna with identical conditions each time, dry and sunny all the way
Le Mans with random conditions, mix of dry and wet
Spa with twice the duration, random conditions, mix of dry and wet

Personally, Tokyo was always my favourite as the identical conditions each time mean you can compare your total race time, but some people liked Le Mans, others liked Sardegna.

2. The FOMO cars are all bought with credits, meaning you can do any race you want, as they all pay credits, and credits are all you need.

So in this way GT7 has the two elements needed to cater for people wanting different things. A range of events to appeal to different tastes, and FOMO cars obtained with a currency that you can obtain by doing the things that appeal to you personally.

Setting up races in free play doesn't achieve the same thing in FM because you'll never get long forum threads where people share their setups and race times if the race isn't offered as a fixed race by the game itself, and also, you can't obtain the FOMO cars that way in FM.

(You may ask - why don't I just play GT7? I prefer FM's physics and the fact I can run it on my PC)

I prefer gt7 way of obtaining update cars, mainly because you can access them all at once an update drops.

Fm has taking FOMO to an extreme level.

 

[breeminator]

The sharing of times and tunes and stuff is something I haven't seen since like Gran Turismo 3 or something though (although I haven't owned a GT game since 6, and only venture to that part of the forum for the photo threads), we used to do that as we had no multiplayer. While it's a nice idea, I don't really see it happening much in the modern era

86 page thread here for the GT7 Tokyo race:

The WTC 600 in Tokyo done without exploits is genuinely one of the hardest races in single player in gt7 - share your setups, tips, and cars

A bit of a premise: since we're going to have 1.14 pretty soon, I thought I'd try my hand on this event without a pp exploit since I'm guessing PD will patch it in the upcoming update, but I've soon found out this race is a somewhat though nut to crack, for multiple reasons, the first being...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[PJTierney]

The sharing of times and tunes and stuff is something I haven't seen since like Gran Turismo 3 or something though (although I haven't owned a GT game since 6, and only venture to that part of the forum for the photo threads), we used to do that as we had no multiplayer. While it's a nice idea, I don't really see it happening much in the modern era...

Happens every week in the EA SPORTS WRC Discord, specifically the Weekly Power Stage

 

[breeminator]

Just seen this in Hardware Unboxed's latest video. It seems that the Windows 11 24H2 insider preview massively boosts CPU performance for AMD CPUs running FM (they looked at Intel as well for a few games, and they seem to benefit much less, with zero improvement in most of the games they tried). The improvement isn't the same for all games, it seems that FM particularly benefits from the changes:

 

[sirjim73]

But if you still don't have to pit, how is the tire wear multiplier a problem then? Not trying to be difficult about it, I just haven't done this Featured Tour yet so I was assuming it was like the Endurance ones where the wear was aggressive enough you had a few different options.

The public lobbies run at 6x tire wear though so yeah I guess it wouldn't work out to be very interesting if the career races are around 8 minutes or so like normal. In public lobbies, softs usually last like 6-8 mins depending on track, so I guess the challenge could be making the softs last, and the softs being fast early and slow late if they wear versus the consistent pace of the mediums, but if the AI just stick to mediums and you are the only one doing anything different then it isn't as intriguing.



Switching to a different model to earn the FOMO cars that allows some freedom in how you earn them would be a massive improvement, as we have gone over in this thread a few times.

I'm not sure the credit thing would create the "engagement" T10 are looking for though, as the economies in these games have always been pretty screwed up for a variety of different reasons depending on the title. Changing to a "points" system like FH5 has could work though, and you earn points from doing basically anything in the game. Earn points for each race you do based on how long it is, whether it's in multiplayer, free play or career. Rivals mode could offer a point for setting a time in the top 50%, 2 points for top 25%, 3 for top 10%, etc to incentivize people to spend a little time and try harder to get up the board. It would be cool to find a way to reward people for making and sharing cool liveries too, but that would probably just result in a flood of zero-effort liveries.

Making the time limited content locked behind the points instead of the Tours would then free the Tours up to stay permanent as well. Their main purpose would just be to provide some new career stuff to do for people who want to earn their points for the FOMO cars through career mode.

I know one problem with doing FOMO stuff on normal currency is that people save up, then log on, buy the new stuff and play with it for 20 mins and then turn the game off until the next update, which doesn't help their "engagement" numbers much and often leads to price creeping up. Generally, people who do a lot of multiplayer will have more credits as the races are more replayable and those who do organized multiplayer often do practice/test sessions with friends and rack up a bunch of credits. I'm sitting at 56mil right now so I'd absolutely love the ability to just buy the FOMO cars with credits and skip the awful career garbage. I suppose the ones who already have the credits in hand likely play enough to drive up the engagement numbers already so it wouldn't be any loss for them if we didn't have to slog through the career for a few hours, and the ones who don't play much at all would still have to put the extra time in.

I was speaking more about free play as a separate issue from the FOMO stuff. Lots of the career complaints are that it isn't big enough, and while I do understand/sympathize to some extent, free play allows everyone to race endlessly. Sure, you don't get a fancy little gold sticker after you complete a free play race, and I guess that's where I disconnect. I race because I enjoy it, so if races are fun then I race, if they aren't fun then a gold sticker at the end won't make them fun and instead I will do something else.

The sharing of times and tunes and stuff is something I haven't seen since like Gran Turismo 3 or something though (although I haven't owned a GT game since 6, and only venture to that part of the forum for the photo threads), we used to do that as we had no multiplayer. While it's a nice idea, I don't really see it happening much in the modern era... Although that does raise another question for T10: what happened to the career leaderboards? In FM1 (or was it 2? or both?) it used to compare your time to complete the races in the career with your friends, if I remember right both for the individual races and the combined times for the series. That could be a good (and seemingly somewhat simple) way to make the career more engaging for some people.

Career leaderboards exist in Grid 2019. Its almost as if T10 could find ways to improve their game just by looking for existing ideas that other games already have 💡

/s

 

[PJTierney]

Myself and @Vic Reign93 had 4 photo finishes in a row last night in Featured Multiplayer.

Here's 3 of them:

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/Kz8hFQpk86

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/tsiiFT4EK7

PJTierney | Forza Motorsport | Xbox

A capture by PJTierney

www.xbox.com

 

[McLaren]

Fm has taking FOMO to an extreme level.

It hasn't given people have pointed out a tactic that lets the game do the racing for you to get them (& credits).

A reminder to others you self admit you don't play this game, yet comment as such.

 

[Ande3200]

It hasn't given people have pointed out a tactic that lets the game do the racing for you to get them (& credits).

A reminder to others you self admit you don't play this game, yet comment as such.

I comment from time to time but not very offen lately,
You dont need to own the game to know some of very flaws a game has,
You can base a lot by seeing gameplay of a game and what features it offers,
What you cant base without playing it, is how the game feels

I have not bought it yet, but thats because i dont think its worth buying as of yet.
The fomo is extreme in fm you cant really deny that. But they are doing that to force people log in play daily, i doubt fm has any big player numbers if they did they would proably have revealed those numbers, like you seen with horizon 5, they revealed those numbers less than month after release.

I have been waiting for it to come around and sadly not enough has been done about it,

Some of you might think i hate forza but thats not the case at all, if i did i would not waste time talking about it, you dont hear me talk about ACC or Iracing because i dont care about those two games,

 

[Nielsen]

It hasn't given people have pointed out a tactic that lets the game do the racing for you to get them (& credits).

What’s the point then?

 

[McLaren]

I comment from time to time but not very offen lately,
You dont need to own the game to know some of very flaws a game has,
You can base a lot by seeing gameplay of a game and what features it offers,
What you cant base without playing it, is how the game feels

Except for when you make statements that clearly reveal you don't play the game.

The fomo is extreme in fm you cant really deny that.

Given I actually play the game & you haven't, you're not in a position to tell me what I can & can't deny regarding it.

But, no, it's not extreme at all. It's tedious but it's as straight forward as it gets. And it actually lasts longer than a week to do them which is more than other games.

Some of you might think i hate forza but thats not the case at all,

Given you only post criticism & statements that misleading indicate you play the game, and also tend to only like any other post criticizing the game, gee, I wonder why one gets the impression you're only here to keep sharing your displeasure after a full year.

What’s the point then?

To farm? To get things easier? Not my cup of tea, but people do it to get rewards as easy as possible.

 

[Ande3200]

Except for when you make statements that clearly reveal you don't play the game.

Given I actually play the game & you haven't, you're not in a position to tell me what I can & can't deny regarding it.

But, no, it's not extreme at all. It's tedious but it's as straight forward as it gets. And it actually lasts longer than a week to do them which is more than other games.

Given you only post criticism & statements that misleading indicate you play the game, and also tend to only like any other post criticizing the game, gee, I wonder why one gets the impression you're only here to keep sharing your displeasure after a full year.

To farm? To get things easier? Not my cup of tea, but people do it to get rewards as easy as possible.

fact is they should be permanent. And not time gated. So far they have not even once added any permanent career events since launch, so regardless of how old this game gets it will never grow.

The game is still not in a good place, even almost a year after release, its missing basic features, community is overall not happy about the game for a good reason.

 

[AEKara38]

I will never play AFK. I didn't pay for a game to let it play with itself. I did the 458 road series twice this week so I could buy the race version before the price went back up. Why? Because I actually enjoy the game. Each to their own so if you want to AFK that's your choice.

 

[ykiki]

A couple of things as I'm about to embark on a race around Le Mans in Free Play. First, I'm baffled as to why there's no Bugatti Circuit option since you can see it shaded in the track maps. Next is a visual oddity. Why does my car already have scrapes and dents when I haven't driven yet? Is that just leftover from a previous race?

 

[PJTierney]

Yoink!

PJTierney | Forza Motorsport | Xbox

A capture by PJTierney

www.xbox.com

 

[McLaren]

The game is still not in a good place, even almost a year after release, its missing basic features, community is overall not happy about the game for a good reason.

A) It’s in a much better place than it was at launch. Again, if you actually played the game, that’d be apparent but you prove my point how you just make statements that identify you talk out your rear.

B) The community is also much better than it was. Again, you clearly don’t play the game or take part in the community yet you’re content to speak on its behalf with ignorance.

 

[syphe]

Some of you might think i hate forza but thats not the case at all, if i did i would not waste time talking about it, you dont hear me talk about ACC or Iracing because i dont care about those two games,

Sigh, your behaviour in this forum is cringe as, you like every critique of the game in this thread, and put a poo emoji on many posts who dare mention they are enjoying the game, or compare it favourably to other games. Conversely it looks like you do the opposite on GT7 threads, chucking a poo emoji on any critique's of the game.

 

[Ande3200]

A) It’s in a much better place than it was at launch. Again, if you actually played the game, that’d be apparent but you prove my point how you just make statements that identify you talk out your rear.

B) The community is also much better than it was. Again, you clearly don’t play the game or take part in the community yet you’re content to speak on its behalf with ignorance.

Its still not good enough, and you can see the game struggling with its player numbers, it dosen’t look to have a big playerbase at all. And if it was not on gamepass those numbers would be even lower,


And i dont understand why you jump on me, all i said was that gt7 update cars has a better approach on how to get them, they dont dripfeed them for weeks you can access them all at once like it should be,

If gt7 would lock them behind events that you could not get the cars at once, i would think just as bad about that,


You dont see me complain much about fh5, playground games have been carried the forza franshise for some time now,

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Outside of my Fomo complaints, I found one other thing odd about some of these feature events. The choices with race tracks like the Ferrari 458 event has you racing around the shorter track layouts. Which to me makes no sense, I don't jump in a Ferrari 458 Italia to typically drive around Silverstones shorter layout or Mugellos; I would prefer to race on the full course.

 

[Kedmasterz]

@Ande3200 ; Don’t worry I play the game on regular basis (around 150 hours which for me and for a forza is not that much) as I want to like it and I mostly agree with your posts.

After 19 years of playing Forza, even if the physics and car dynamics of this iteration is quite good, as a GAME it’s probably the worst entry in the series. For sure it’s not in the same poor state that at launch but let’s be honest; it is still a barebones experience.

 

[PJTierney]

You know things must be spicy when “You are ignoring content by this member.” shows up a dozen times on a single page 🤔

 

[UKMikey]

Hatewatching threads seems like a waste of energy to me. Especially for a game you've never played.

 

[McLaren]

And i dont understand why you jump on me, all i said was that gt7 update cars has a better approach on how to get them, they dont dripfeed them for weeks you can access them all at once like it should be,

No, that's not all you said. In fact, that's not even what I initially responded to.

Fm has taking FOMO to an extreme level.

This isn't true & what you just pointed out isn't exclusive to Forza, but rather an unfortunate trait of the gaming industry now. As I even pointed out earlier, FM's events will at least last longer than a week which is more courteous than other games engaging in FOMO.

 

[breeminator]

You dont see me complain much about fh5, playground games have been carried the forza franshise for some time now,

After 19 years of playing Forza, even if the physics and car dynamics of this iteration is quite good, as a GAME it’s probably the worst entry in the series. For sure it’s not in the same poor state that at launch but let’s be honest; it is still a barebones experience.

I agree with these observations. FH5 and GT7 are way ahead of FM for gameplay. But then I also felt FH4 had much better gameplay than FM7. Instead of learning and improving, FM mostly has even worse gameplay than FM7.

This isn't true & what you just pointed out isn't exclusive to Forza, but rather an unfortunate trait of the gaming industry now.

The Forza games are the only ones I've played where functional items become impossible to get after a time window. Every other game I've personally played limits it to cosmetic items. FM does take FOMO to a new level even for Forza in that you don't even have any possibility of getting the cars from an auction house, they are literally 100% impossible to get after the end of the availability time window.