- 4,087
- Philippines
- GBalao888
- GBalao888
Considering it has hundreds of championships with 1,260 races (including Porsche expansion events).
Forza Motorsport Single-Player Mode Revealed: Car Leveling, Car Points, Online Saves, & More
- Thread starter Famine
- 209 comments
- 29,098 views
MagpieRacer
Premium
- 17,354
- Wymondham, Norfolk
- Seagull_Racer
- 2,963
- Geneva
- Kimky
- Kimky
Off course I knew it wont happen, but I'm looking for something inspired of that, rather than the new way T10 is going. And that could have totally happened after all the ****** new gen version of forza we had. T10 just choose another way fine for them.
- 64
- Portugal
- KaYibE
Yes i understand but its how things are right now..., if you belong to a community in your country you might find people with your likes.
For example im in a team that people organize events every weekend classic race events and theres several leagues in my country running...
Nowdays i dont play often but theres many casual people in communitys, they organize competitions with diferent combos and rules you just need one car for each specific event and people do all the stuff for you..its just join and setup the car if its open setup and its a lot funnier compared to any single player content out there and also its were you really learn to race and improve from others experience and you can join in a casual way.
But yeah lets see how the driving feel on the wheel and how single player will end up to be fun or not if this game doesnt have a good online and good feeling on the wheel will die like other FM before it cause people only stay engaged cause of the online and the communitys that keep the game alive, every person should know that.
- 2,390
- Italia
- STR3LA
I must say I'm not impressed by the new career mode. While, yes you start with slower cars and progress it's cool, everything feels... just random events. Like most racers ok, but I expected maybe a little bit more direction?
Anyway I'm still very excited about pit stop strategy and other options in career and free mode. And since free races will be my main off line gaming I'm also happy about new AI.
Now car leveling is really not an issue for me but I understand players hate it. Someone will do the math for time taken to max out every car to lv 50. Possibly more than 1000h just for that?
I actually like it because now I have another reason to drive every car for a few hours. Is it necessary in a sim game? I don't think so.
In the end we know that the career will grow in time with more events, more tracks and more cars to lv up. 😅
Career mode progression tide to online save... Not really an issue but it could lead to a potential mass review bomb? You need to level up every new car even duplicates and that same leveling is tide to online save only? That is a bold decision.
Still looking forward to play this game online or offline. I know there will be tons of options for racing and post launch support so no worries here. Oh and wheelspins are finally gone. Thankyou! 👍
Anyway I'm still very excited about pit stop strategy and other options in career and free mode. And since free races will be my main off line gaming I'm also happy about new AI.
Now car leveling is really not an issue for me but I understand players hate it. Someone will do the math for time taken to max out every car to lv 50. Possibly more than 1000h just for that?
I actually like it because now I have another reason to drive every car for a few hours. Is it necessary in a sim game? I don't think so.
In the end we know that the career will grow in time with more events, more tracks and more cars to lv up. 😅
Career mode progression tide to online save... Not really an issue but it could lead to a potential mass review bomb? You need to level up every new car even duplicates and that same leveling is tide to online save only? That is a bold decision.
Still looking forward to play this game online or offline. I know there will be tons of options for racing and post launch support so no worries here. Oh and wheelspins are finally gone. Thankyou! 👍
- 677
- Uruguay
If shareholders are forcing FM to be monetized, they're doing a terrible job considering the game has no microtransactions or anything of the sort beyond a car pass.
Even for GT7, Sony has never considered it a live service game. Every time they have talked about their expansion to live service games, they've said they currently only have a single live service franchise, the MLB games. These games aren't monetized because of some top-down mandate, but because of the simple logic that to have an ever-updating game it needs to be funded in some way, they just take different routes to get there.
- 2,206
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
"Pay to win" doesn't literally mean pay to WIN. Clearly that is impossible as what happens if two people in the same race have "paid to win"? They can't both win. "Pay to win" just means an exchange of real money for any advantage in a game, and Forza does have that, so it does meet the definition of pay to win.
What is a “Pay-to-Win” Game?
Gone are the days when you couldn’t pay to get a leg up in video games. Here’s what “pay-to-win” mechanics are and how they might be making video games worse.
www.howtogeek.com
"In-game microtransactions are often split into two groups. “Cosmetic” microtransactions are purely aesthetic, such as skins, costumes, and outfits that characters can wear. Conversely, there are “pay-to-win” microtransactions that directly affect the core gameplay of a title. These purchases give a “leg-up” to players who are willing to pay, giving them faster or exclusive access to specific skills and items."
More credits in Forza are not cosmetic, they affect game function. They give you earlier access to cars. The game also has exclusive access to functional items, i.e. car pass cars, in exchange for money. As @Eggstor said, that is the definition of pay to win.
- 5,704
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
When you drill into it a little, Forza Motorsport 4’s single player campaign is essentially a giant spreadsheet of events. There is some brief handholding but ultimately there’s little focus or a player progression journey throughout. Forza Motorsport 3 did things a little better as you had a calendar to follow.
Additionally, a sizeable chunk of events pad out their runtime with double-headers and qualifying, leading to eventual burnout and a sense of sameness across the campaign.
While there is a large collection of events and some may like the freedom of being able to do anything, if it were done today it would also be criticised for being directionless and overwhelming. Games like F1 2020 (My Team) and Project CARS 2 pushed things forward in that regard, even Forza Horizon to a degree.
I don’t think the Builder’s Cup is the perfect solution to this, but at the very least there is a threadline you can follow and something you can work towards over successive races.
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- 573
- France
- SUTempest
"Pay to win" doesn't literally mean pay to WIN. Clearly that is impossible as what happens if two people in the same race have "paid to win"? They can't both win. "Pay to win" just means an exchange of real money for any advantage in a game, and Forza does have that, so it does meet the definition of pay to win.
What is a “Pay-to-Win” Game?
Gone are the days when you couldn’t pay to get a leg up in video games. Here’s what “pay-to-win” mechanics are and how they might be making video games worse.
"In-game microtransactions are often split into two groups. “Cosmetic” microtransactions are purely aesthetic, such as skins, costumes, and outfits that characters can wear. Conversely, there are “pay-to-win” microtransactions that directly affect the core gameplay of a title. These purchases give a “leg-up” to players who are willing to pay, giving them faster or exclusive access to specific skills and items."
More credits in Forza are not cosmetic, they affect game function. They give you earlier access to cars. The game also has exclusive access to functional items, i.e. car pass cars, in exchange for money. As @Eggstor said, that is the definition of pay to win.
The "advantage" part is... debatable. As someone earlier or in another thread said, just because you paid to access a car that non-paying customers can't access, doesn't necessarily mean you can drive it well.
To be clear, I don't disagree with you. I just think we could do with a bit more nuance. Yes, technically it is correct (the best kind of correct) to say that anything that is not purely cosmetic could be considered an advantage, but I think there's an argument to be made as to whether what you pay for is enough of an advantage that it makes winning easier. The cars you get in the car pass would have to be extremely obviously easier to drive and better in every way to meet that definition.
In other words, when most people imagine "pay-to-win", they imagine "pay-to-win-easy." As long as Timmy Level 2999 is too incompetent to pass the B license, what cars and non-cosmetic content he's paid for doesn't matter too much to me.
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- 449
- Alberta
I never liked credit bonus so I'm not going to argue with you there."Pay to win" doesn't literally mean pay to WIN. Clearly that is impossible as what happens if two people in the same race have "paid to win"? They can't both win. "Pay to win" just means an exchange of real money for any advantage in a game, and Forza does have that, so it does meet the definition of pay to win.
What is a “Pay-to-Win” Game?
Gone are the days when you couldn’t pay to get a leg up in video games. Here’s what “pay-to-win” mechanics are and how they might be making video games worse.
"In-game microtransactions are often split into two groups. “Cosmetic” microtransactions are purely aesthetic, such as skins, costumes, and outfits that characters can wear. Conversely, there are “pay-to-win” microtransactions that directly affect the core gameplay of a title. These purchases give a “leg-up” to players who are willing to pay, giving them faster or exclusive access to specific skills and items."
More credits in Forza are not cosmetic, they affect game function. They give you earlier access to cars. The game also has exclusive access to functional items, i.e. car pass cars, in exchange for money. As @Eggstor said, that is the definition of pay to win.
But car pass is a pay to win? I'm not sure if I can agree to that. If "being able to buy functional item with money" is a definition you're going for, then basically 90% of DLCs for any games out there counts as a pay to win.
More power to you if that's exactly what you're arguing for, but sometimes DLC is just DLC.
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- 1,268
- India
Will the next info drop be at the next forza monthly? Or is it going to be bi weekly like fh5 was?
- 29,996
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Fair points, though I much prefer the free and open approach to handholding, I do understand a degree of handholding and direction is neccessary at times.
Perhaps something inbetween FM4 and FM(8) would be the ideal. The idea of going through each and every event ina predetermined order really doesn't appeal to me. The car points tuning doesn't appeal either, so FM just wont be for me, which is fine, I just find that a shame personally as GT7 isnt for me either.
Too much handholding and limitations of freedom and choice given to the players compared to the older titles is massively dumbing down the experiences for me.
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- 5,704
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
I agree, there's a happy medium in there somewhere.
That being said we've only seen a handful of events in Builders Cup, so there might be more things towards the end of it that Turn 10 didn't want to share because spoilers.
Curiously, all the Builders Cup content we've seen so far has featured road cars, which typically have more upgrade flexibility than race cars.
I can't imagine there'll be no race car content at all in the campaign, but maybe it's a separate thing to the Builders Cup.
They hint at Showcases and I have a feeling there'll be some sort of championship or endurance category similar to the Gran Turismo World Championship and that series' endurance events. That would make sense considering the addition of fuel/tyre wear and compounds.
That being said we've only seen a handful of events in Builders Cup, so there might be more things towards the end of it that Turn 10 didn't want to share because spoilers.
Curiously, all the Builders Cup content we've seen so far has featured road cars, which typically have more upgrade flexibility than race cars.
I can't imagine there'll be no race car content at all in the campaign, but maybe it's a separate thing to the Builders Cup.
They hint at Showcases and I have a feeling there'll be some sort of championship or endurance category similar to the Gran Turismo World Championship and that series' endurance events. That would make sense considering the addition of fuel/tyre wear and compounds.
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- 5,704
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
They haven't announced a recurring broadcast series (Let's Go equivalent) yet, so for now assume that news comes via Forza Monthly and whatever Microsoft will do at gamescom.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,511
- Texas
Where in Forza do you spend money to gain an advantage?"Pay to win" doesn't literally mean pay to WIN. Clearly that is impossible as what happens if two people in the same race have "paid to win"? They can't both win. "Pay to win" just means an exchange of real money for any advantage in a game, and Forza does have that, so it does meet the definition of pay to win.
What is a “Pay-to-Win” Game?
Gone are the days when you couldn’t pay to get a leg up in video games. Here’s what “pay-to-win” mechanics are and how they might be making video games worse.
"In-game microtransactions are often split into two groups. “Cosmetic” microtransactions are purely aesthetic, such as skins, costumes, and outfits that characters can wear. Conversely, there are “pay-to-win” microtransactions that directly affect the core gameplay of a title. These purchases give a “leg-up” to players who are willing to pay, giving them faster or exclusive access to specific skills and items."
More credits in Forza are not cosmetic, they affect game function. They give you earlier access to cars. The game also has exclusive access to functional items, i.e. car pass cars, in exchange for money. As @Eggstor said, that is the definition of pay to win.
Buying new cars is not an advantage.
- 29,996
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Not sure I agree with that. I think to be pay to win the advantage has be reasonably substantial. In previous Forza games, cars and credits were reasonably easy to acquire, so spending money was a shortcut, but not a significant advantage over anyone else who didn't pay.
I'd say GT7 is pay to win as it takes a very long time to earn the Cr to save for the more expensive cars. Though the cost of paying to win there is stupidly high.
FM could be pay to win, but that will depend on how the games economy is balanced, something we dont know about yet. But if cars are reasonable to obtain, then paying to shortcut isn't pay to win IMO.
There has to be a reasonable test inserted into if the advantage gained is substantial enough over playing through without paying.
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- 484
- England
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
It quiet literally does. It's about giving the player a completely unfair advantage not available to other players, regardless of skill. Having extra credits over someone, or a car they dont have, doesn't give them a completely unequal advantage. I'll still have good, fast cars and lots of credits regardless of who buys what.
No, it's really not. It's a hard grasp to try to pretend it is.
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- 1,089
If you believe these bullshots, cinematics are PC gameplay then that means on PC there should not be any photo mode 🤣
- 2,206
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
If the DLC has any impact on performance, then yes, it's pay to win. FH, FM, GT7, ACC, RaceRoom, iRacing all allow you to buy functional items (or at least earlier access to functional items that can be earned with play time) with money, so all have elements of pay to win. An example of a game that is completely free from pay to win is Age of Empires 4, there is nothing at all you can buy in game with real money that affects your performance. There are other games that are almost entirely free from pay to win, such as Rocket League, where cars are cosmetic, but there is arguably a tiny functional difference due to the different visual appearance and how well the appearance of different cars match the hitbox. But huge numbers of pro players use the Octane, which is given to all players when they install the game, so any advantage from other cars is so small as to be rejected by those pro players, and the game can be considered essentially free from pay to win elements.
- 677
- Uruguay
Should be noted regarding the PC version of FM that it supports Ray Traced Global Illumination (which is already very visible in some of the screenshots), so I can totally believe none of those are bullshots. It's likely there's going to be a big gap between PC and console though, so I guess there can be an argument that it's sorta misleading but eh. imo if you can get that level of fidelity in any version then it's fair game (as long as it's properly identfied what it's running on ofc).
- 1,713
- Sydney
- snakebacon97
So it seems 1200 is too many, but 150 is definitely too few, so if there's 720 events, and if player-created and official races have roughly equivalent pay: that's it, the campaign is satisfying and the game has ♾️ events. GT8, take notes.
UKMikey
Premium
- 18,298
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
While you could say Batman is the ultimate example of pay to win I think I'm going with Dave on this one. Are DLC cars deliberately unfair to people who don't buy them because some of them may be coincidentally faster than the ones in the base game? Because if this were a gacha mechanic it'd force you to buy them to remain competitive and would make the gameplay significantly downgraded without them.
The underlying argument for deluxe edition being PTW seems to be that the game is borked without it. I don't think that's happening with FM2023 and can't remember this ever being the case as the franchise has always offered multiple points of entry.
If players are literally buying top leaderboard spots by opting for DLC then that's a different story. But complaining about a two-tier pricing model and suggesting everything should be available for free to Gamepass users as others have done, or that there should only be one version of the game (which would be necessarily more expensive for everyone) sounds misguided to me.
Paying for a more complete game experience or better QoL =/= pay to win.
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- 10,956
- Canada
Still waiting on that time machine my guy, cause not of what I see are bullshots nor cinematic.
- 1,256
- Gippsland, Victoria
- BDR-Binky
- MadRacer38
The Car Points system isn't ideal for myself.
Interesting from a single player/career mode prospect - but it's going to be a bit of a pain to continue the series (which relies on custom builds on a variety road cars) when you have to unlock the upgrades for each car.
Hopefully there is a way around it outside of the Builders Cup.
Interesting from a single player/career mode prospect - but it's going to be a bit of a pain to continue the series (which relies on custom builds on a variety road cars) when you have to unlock the upgrades for each car.
Hopefully there is a way around it outside of the Builders Cup.
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- 63
- givmedew
Being subtle is not the same as doing a bad job. It could actually be that the people developing the games are doing a great job fighting back the people who want the GTA and Diablo cash. Or it could be that the people pushing for the money know that if they push the wrong button the whole thing could go up in smoke.
The game is HEAVILY monetized though. That’s what passes and add on content are. This game is free for game pass users or maybe it’s $40-60 if they buy the whole game. These aren’t just things created later and added on later. These add-ons are planned out before the game is developed. A lot of content is content that would have been included day one but a lot of it is also cut and put on the side so that you have the ability to spend more money.
the question was how do we get people to pay $100-120 for a $60 game? Now the question is how do we get people to pay $40-100 for a game that’s included in game-pass.
Don't for one second dream that you didn’t receive a different game because of these things.
All the major game pass content from Microsoft is designed with one thing in mind… how do we turn $0 into more than $0. Because that’s what you are paying for each individual game now. Sure your paying $15/m but they want you to pay that and $40 for your favorite titles.
I do not begrudge them and I‘d rather do it the Microsoft/Turn-10 way than the 20HR grind or $214 McLaren MP4/4. In Forza that would have been a ~$10 car maybe? Big surprise there’s only a handful of grinding races, online racing is underpaid, and the easiest way to earn a lot of cash quick is one and done (challenges and circuit experience). So you can only earn a lot of cash once. Winning 100+ million to buy the cars you want is going to take you ~100HRs of driving the same few tracks over and over and over and over and over and you’ll get so board you probably end up building $20m in cars to race those races in.
These games are designed to extricate your cash from your wallet even after you own the game.
Thats fine but let’s not kid ourselves about it. Neither of these developers are determined do deliver the best possible experience period. I mean come on you can pay to earn credits faster… how much time in a board room was spent determining how much cash you earn per race? If the answer is any time at all it’s too much time. I’ve been on earnings calls that have to do with video games… they can be gross!
Forza will be handled like the free to play game it is. Again that’s ok I get it I pay for game pass and love it!
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