Forza

[Swift]

I meant whith regards to how I think damage should be implemented, I shouldv'e said I'm moving away from the debate, anyway it's good to be able to debate seriousely with someone here from time to time 👍.

True true!

I'd rather have the option of damage rather than no damage.

You could argue this about some of GT4's features.

Photomode I want to drive !!! not play virtual photographer
B-Spec Mode I want to drive !!! not play virtual racing manager

I think damage is an important part of racing if you don't like it you can turn it off just like GT4 you dont HAVE to play virtual photographer it's an option.

Options are good !
Features are good !

Echo, Echo, Echo....

 

[kinigitt]

to all the nay-sayers: the fanatec wheel is FF.

FORCESHOCKtm=force feedback AND vibration. Not just a rumble wheel.

http://www.arsenalgaming.com/files/FANATEC%20brochure.pdf

read the page about the speedster 3 forceshock wheel. All the features are listed.

Oohhh...it has a headset slot for xbox live as well! I didn't think about that.

 

[dreamakah]

Here's the thing, there's no Driving Force Pro for the XBox, which means, no matter how good the game is, it has no chance of "feeling" as good as GT4. The DFP lets you feel the road, when you're sliding, when you're not, read the reviews, it takes console racing up a level. If Logitech or someone else makes a wheel that compares to the DFP for the XBox then Forzo might have a shot at being the best racing simulator ever, but if you're gonna use a standard controller, you may as well go play MarioKart.

(and yes I know the Driving Force Pro is not perfect, but I have yet to come across a better combination than the DFP with GT3, let alone GT4, so until someone can tell me of a controller that does the job better, this one is the King.)

GT4 is confirmed to have Aero kits for most of the cars in the game.... Personally, I don't care about damage....

 

[code_kev]

Who says another company can't match it?

 

[Pak]

6 new rFactor screenshots
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/RFAC/screenshots

 

[kinigitt]

Here's the thing, there's no Driving Force Pro for the XBox, which means, no matter how good the game is, it has no chance of "feeling" as good as GT4. The DFP lets you feel the road, when you're sliding, when you're not, read the reviews, it takes console racing up a level. If Logitech or someone else makes a wheel that compares to the DFP then Forzo might have a shot at being the best racing simulator ever, but if you're gonna use a standard controller, you may as well go play MarioKart.

(and yes I know the Driving Force Pro is not perfect, but I have yet to come across a better combination that the DFP with GT3, let alone GT4, so until someone can tell me of a controller that does the job better, this one is the King.)

First it's "forza has no force feedback wheel, so it sucks."

Discovery of such a wheel is made, and now the story is: "the DFP is a better wheel, so Forza sucks."

 

[Front]

to all the nay-sayers: the fanatec wheel is FF.

FORCESHOCKtm=force feedback AND vibration. Not just a rumble wheel.

http://www.arsenalgaming.com/files/FANATEC%20brochure.pdf

read the page about the speedster 3 forceshock wheel. All the features are listed.

Oohhh...it has a headset slot for xbox live as well! I didn't think about that.

Heres a video of the wheel in action

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/media.html?gcst=speedster_devint.asx

The FANTEC guy explains what you can do with the wheel neat stuff.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

to all the nay-sayers: the fanatec wheel is FF.

FORCESHOCKtm=force feedback AND vibration. Not just a rumble wheel.

More like FORCESHOCK = Vibration Feedback to emulate ForceFeedback. Gamespot has a video hands on for the new wheel. Also the official site very plainly stated that the forcefeedback motor kicks in when you hit something and makes no mention of any other type of feedback.

 

[kinigitt]

More like FORCESHOCK = Vibration Feedback to emulate ForceFeedback. Gamespot has a video hands on for the new wheel. Also the official very plainly stated that the forcefeedback motor kick in when you hit something.

link to the video? is it available to non-members?

And did you look at the PDF brochure? It very plainly states that it has forcefeedback AND vibration. Along with the ability to adjust the strength of the feedback AND vibration.

 

[Race Idiot]

to all the nay-sayers: the fanatec wheel is FF.

FORCESHOCKtm=force feedback AND vibration. Not just a rumble wheel.

http://www.arsenalgaming.com/files/FANATEC%20brochure.pdf

read the page about the speedster 3 forceshock wheel. All the features are listed.

Oohhh...it has a headset slot for xbox live as well! I didn't think about that.

I've used the Speedster 3 for the PSOne/PS2 and I thought Logitecs build quality was dodgy. Just hope that it was just the one for the PS2 that was crap. Why the eff doesn't logitec make Wheels for the X-box? Or even like a USB converter? Then all you'd need then would be for the developers to support whatever wheel.

Ps, why is this in the GT4 forum still?

 

[dreamakah]

Who says another company can't match it?

I'm sure someone can, but to my knowledge, to date, no one has. If they do, I'll probably buy it, being a racing fanatic. Ideally I'd find a converter so the DFP can be plugged into the XBox, but I think that's asking a bit much....then again, Logitech might not take as much flak over the cost of the DFP if it was usable on the XBox. On a slightly different not, the DFP works great on the computer, Logitech says it doesn't on their web page but I've tried it and it does work, I even set the pedals up as a midi controller.

 

[Dave A]

o one has yet because theres only GT4 thats out that makes full use of the DFP's capabilities. When Forza comes out don't be suprised if a good wheel comes out on the X-Box, I wouldv'e looked at that video for that X-Box wheel posted earlier but I don't like streamed vids and can't be arsed.

 

[kinigitt]

I've used the Speedster 3 for the PSOne/PS2 and I thought Logitecs build quality was dodgy. Just hope that it was just the one for the PS2 that was crap. Why the eff doesn't logitec make Wheels for the X-box? Or even like a USB converter? Then all you'd need then would be for the developers to support whatever wheel.

Ps, why is this in the GT4 forum still?

you thought the logitech's build quality was dodgy? the DF or the DFP?

Or did you mean the fanatec wheel?

 

[Cheshyrkat]

Gamespot hands on

They describe enhanced vibration and call it true FF. Its great that it has setting to feel every single pebble or bump but what about wheel pull and other forces while cornering/driving? Is that what the spring is for. It only handles vibration feedback.
$150 may be to much for a non FF wheel.

And did you look at the PDF brochure? It very plainly states that it has forcefeedback AND vibration. Along with the ability to adjust the strength of the feedback AND vibration.

Under features on the main site it says

The Force Feedback moter makes the wheel turn if you hit something.......

 

[Dave A]

If it's true force feedback then the wheel will pull against you in corners and so on, thats what force feedback is, if it doesn't do that then it's just vibrating and not force feedback, can someone confirm if it IS force feedback or not since you've just posted a contradiction.

 

[Race Idiot]

you thought the logitech's build quality was dodgy? the DF or the DFP?

Or did you mean the fanatec wheel?

I have a DF for all it's good points, it feels like it doesn't feel very solid and although mine is trouble free i've heard of plenty of people with problems with theirs. The DFP feels better, but it's still not perfect. I've used the Speedster 3, in that document and it wasn't very good at all.

 

[kinigitt]

Gamespot hands on

They describe enhanced vibration and call it true FF. Its great that it has setting to feel every single pebble or bump but what about wheel pull and other forces while cornering/driving? Is that what the spring is for. It only handles vibration feedback.
$150 may be to much for a non FF wheel.



Under features on the main site it says

The Force Feedback moter makes the wheel turn if you hit something.......

I'm confused. Can't they just come out and say it? Actually... they have, but everybody on this forum is calling it a lie.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

If it's true force feedback then the wheel will pull against you in corners and so on, thats what force feedback is, if it doesn't do that then it's just vibrating and not force feedback, can someone confirm if it IS force feedback or not since you've just posted a contradiction.

I know thats what FF is. My point is that no hands on or write up makes any mention of this effect yet its still called FF.

 

[kinigitt]

I have a DF for all it's good points, it feels like it doesn't feel very solid and although mine is trouble free i've heard of plenty of people with problems with theirs. The DFP feels better, but it's still not perfect. I've used the Speedster 3, in that document and it wasn't very good at all.

Yeah, I hated the DF with a passion, but I love my new DFP. They're worlds apart, IMO. Just the fact that the wheel doesn't creak when I use it is reassuring. It also feels a lot more solidly built and has much stronger Force Feedback.

 

[Dave A]

I know thats what FF is. My point is that no hands on or write up makes any mention of this effect yet its still called FF.

But they've said it's force feedback not JUST vibrations, if thats the case then it will be force feedback, they're calling it by it's forceshock or whatever name they've come up with for it. And now as Kinigitt just said, noone will believe it.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

But they've said it's force feedback not JUST vibrations, if thats the case then it will be force feedback, they're calling it by it's forceshock or whatever name they've come up with for it. And now as Kinigitt just said, noone will believe it.

So just because they say so its true FF? You yourself said if it doesnt simulate wheel pull its just vibration. Nobody has made any mention of simulated wheel pull except for the generic spring which even your cheapest non FF wheels have.

I guess only time will tell. Its either FF or simulated FF through vibration.

 

[Race Idiot]

Yeah, I hated the DF with a passion, but I love my new DFP. They're worlds apart, IMO. Just the fact that the wheel doesn't creak when I use it is reassuring. It also feels a lot more solidly built and has much stronger Force Feedback.

Your DF creaked? Man i'm glad I bought one later in it's production cycle. I'm a cheap bastard so i'm not going to get a DFP unless I see it at a sale or something.

 

[kinigitt]

But they've said it's force feedback not JUST vibrations, if thats the case then it will be force feedback, they're calling it by it's forceshock or whatever name they've come up with for it. And now as Kinigitt just said, noone will believe it.

no one seems to want to believe it.

here, a description from the companies website, under the heading "steering resistance" (adjustable), to shut you all up:

"Instead of springs, the Speedster3 forceshock is equipped with a strong motor which controls the force feedback effects but also determines how much power you need to turn the wheel."

There, it's spelled out plain and simple, the wheel is true force feedback. Unless you want Jesus himself to come to your house and demonstrate it.

the other subject lines are "vibration function" and "force effects", which are other features that complement the force feedback.

http://www.fanatec.com/

Now all I need to know is the build quality. If it's crappy, I'm not paying for it.

 

[tha_con]

Thing is, if I was in an online race, say on Gt4, and some one smashed me into a wall, and my car tore apart in a super realistic way, I wouldn't mind, I'd be busy thinking "corrr, I love damage". I want it as close to a real car as possible XD.

I wanna see cars smash in to barriers, flipping in the air, with parts flying everywhere, flames, smoke, oil, everything, oh and a slow motion replay mode with matrix style bullet time effects, with a camera I can position ANYWHERE.

you could never afford a system that could do all of that anyway, so keep dreaming for another two generations of consoles.

 

[dreamakah]

PS2's and XBox's are definitely capable of fantastic crash effects, including break-apart of vehicles and parts flying all over the place, check out Burnout 3. I personally would like the option of damage on/off, but it's not gonna stop me from pre-ordering GT4.

you could never afford a system that could do all of that anyway, so keep dreaming for another two generations of consoles.

 

[tha_con]

PS2's and XBox's are definitely capable of fantastic crash effects, including break-apart of vehicles and parts flying all over the place, check out Burnout 3. I personally would like the option of damage on/off, but it's not gonna stop me from pre-ordering GT4.

This is what he wants

Flames+Smoke+Oil+Parts+AI+Physics+TONS OF MEMORY CONSUMPTION.

Basically, it will take a very strong system to remember, emulate, and calculate everything needed for things like this, in a realistic manner, because that's what he wants.

 

[kinigitt]

This is what he wants

Flames+Smoke+Oil+Parts+AI+Physics+TONS OF MEMORY CONSUMPTION.

Basically, it will take a very strong system to remember, emulate, and calculate everything needed for things like this, in a realistic manner, because that's what he wants.

flames+sparks=particle effects and texture swapping. not hardware intensive.

A.I. and physics are hard on the processor, not memory.

the only things you mentioned that would tax the memory would be persistent oil and tire tracks, as well as parts staying on the track.

 

[dreamakah]

True, but it's still done quite well in Burnout 3. Personally, I'd like to see it taken one step further, when you slam into another car from behind, the driver should fly through the windshield, so you can chase him down and run him over. Which would result in a time reduction bonus. And a special trophy that depicts a terrified driver running for his life. Anyway, maybe that's just me, but who says a great simulation shouldn't incorportate a few side games for the sick and twisted?

This is what he wants

Flames+Smoke+Oil+Parts+AI+Physics+TONS OF MEMORY CONSUMPTION.

Basically, it will take a very strong system to remember, emulate, and calculate everything needed for things like this, in a realistic manner, because that's what he wants.

 

[kinigitt]

True, but it's still done quite well in Burnout 3. Personally, I'd like to see it taken one step further, when you slam into another car from behind, the driver should fly through the windshield, so you can chase him down and run him over. Which would result in a time reduction bonus. And a special trophy that depicts a terrified driver running for his life. Anyway, maybe that's just me, but who says a great simulation shouldn't incorportate a few side games for the sick and twisted?

try flatout. You can play darts with your driver. I'm not joking.

You slam your car into a meter high wall and try to aim your driver's trajectory as he flies through the windshield.

 

[code_kev]

The ps3 and xbox 2 will EASILY have the power to do what I mentioned, hell the current consoles can allmost do it anyway.