Forza3 can't be compared with GT5....

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I'd like to remind some people... the most expensive sims in the world, full-immersion flight-sims used by the Air Force and various airlines, have graphic displays with terribly poly-counts and low texture-mapping detail.

Point taken.

As it happens, my very first game I ever bought was "Flight Simulator 2" for the Commodore C64 25 years ago. How quickly time passes.

I totally accept the notion that die hard racing enthusiasts put physics first. But there are several layers of realism, and several different approaches to enthusiasm.

The human body has no sensor for speed. Only the eye can give an indication on how fast the body is actually travelling. It's far easier and more feasible to simulate that than G-Forces. Because after all it's just a video game that has to be sold to millions, not a few privileged individuals.
 
Heck, I'm still playing PS2 games with shoddy graphics simply because they're so much fun.

I still play street rod from time to time..

street_rod-9.gif
 
Because after all it's just a video game that has to be sold to millions, not a few privileged individuals.

Which is why Turn 10 made Forza 3 fun as well as being fairly realistic. It's designed so that everyone can play it, not just the enthusiasts.
 
I have a feeling that replays looks worse than Forza 2. Car model lighting has changed and I'm not sure this was the right direction.

During the races graphics definitely improved over forza 2
 
Because after all it's just a video game that has to be sold to millions, not a few privileged individuals.

Yup... entertainment value. Even though I love GT's epic graphics... it irks me when people equate graphics to realism... intricately detailed graphics... detailed sound (to a point... )... the "feel of speed"... none of these are essential to a simulator... but they add to the immersion factor that makes a game fun.
 
I have a feeling that replays looks worse than Forza 2. Car model lighting has changed and I'm not sure this was the right direction.

During the races graphics definitely improved over forza 2

The replays are miles better than Forza 2, they've taken cues from GT in making the replays better and the lighting effects and reflections etc. look spot on.

Don't judge it by the exported clips found online because they are massively, massively compressed.
 
They both look great, but only one looks awesome:

5.gif

You can keep looking at the screenshots (until next year, or even longer) while we're actually playing the game then. Have fun. 👍
 
Yup... entertainment value. Even though I love GT's epic graphics... it irks me when people equate graphics to realism... intricately detailed graphics... detailed sound (to a point... )... the "feel of speed"... none of these are essential to a simulator... but they add to the immersion factor that makes a game fun.

That's a rather narrow definition of the term "simulation", which btw translates just fine into "representation" in my dictionary ;)

Because, by your definition, no consumer equipment has the processing power at this moment in time, why should we even bother to discuss these games?

You just don't get a "physics" engine right now, that's why I prefer the term "game engine".

It should in my view recreate the real life as good as is technically possible with the limited help from visual, aurel and tactile clues from the monitor, speakers and a FFB wheel. I agree, a sim racer should have an emphasis on how a car probably reacts at 160 kph going into a sweeper. But it also should represent that as believable as possible, because otherwise: why bother playing the game?

Being a skilled video gamer doesn't mean being a skilled real world racing driver. And the opposite is also quite true.

I have no problems whatsoever that T10 and PD each have their very own approach and thus each game has a distinctive feel to it.

I just wonder if the folks at T10 really do know the quintessence of racing. In Dan's world it's all pimp-my-ride land. They simply don't know. It's really hopeless - judging from what I've learned so far from FM3, it's an all singing, all dancing, all shiny wonderland. It's not about racing, it's hardly about the cars because they have no respect whatsoever for those wonderful pieces of engineering.

I tried hard to get the most fun out of FM2 and played it countless hours. It could be done to have a good time racing (online), no painting, tuning, selling, amassing ludicrous amounts of CRs. But it was never the main focus of the game.

On the other side, there's Codemasters. They know. Shame really the game engine isn't more of a challenge. But as far as simulating races, Grid still is the best choice. But a bit too blunt even for my standards. The constant pressure was huge fun and the damage handling put the stakes very high. THus the rewind feature made a lot of sense - where in FM3 it somehow doesn't

So what's left? Gran Turismo. A very sophisticated approach. I like sophistication. The whole franchise breathes it.

Online play was really what kept me coming back to FM2, but there's something about GT which makes it unique. They maybe don't know , but they understand.

So if the experience gets reduced to "physics" I'm forced to listen to the PR chaps of each company. Which I hardly ever do anyways, because, you know, they usually lie to you.
 
@Moglet:
Well the AM Corvette is in Prologue, so technically, everyone can "play the game".
Since 2 years actually. ;)
 
I just wonder if the folks at T10 really do know the quintessence of racing. In Dan's world it's all pimp-my-ride land. They simply don't know. It's really hopeless - judging from what I've learned so far from FM3, it's an all singing, all dancing, all shiny wonderland. It's not about racing, it's hardly about the cars because they have no respect whatsoever for those wonderful pieces of engineering.

It does look like that, but earlier on when me and a bunch of other racers took our cars out onto the Nurburgring and just went for it, bumper to bumper with the engine sounds blaring in our ears and the exhausts popping violently as we changed down for the next corner, it felt GOOD. I could see the Corvette infront of me scrabbling for grip, I could hear those tyres squealing over my own supercharger whine as I changed up ready to overtake him.

As I did, the sunlight shone in and bounced directly off the badge on the dash to my right. I passed him and noticed a nutcase in a Mk1 Golf flying towards me in my rear view mirror.

With Pokemon stickers on the bonnet.

What a game.

Oh, and I then went drifting in a VW Touareg but that's just me.
 
You can keep looking at the screenshots (until next year, or even longer) while we're actually playing the game then. Have fun. 👍

I find that "I would rather play a worse game now than a better game latter" attitude quite amusing. Of course I would rather wait for the good stuff, why the hell you think otherwise? :lol:

However, when you misunderstand me is when you assume I'm a GT fanboy. I'm not blind to what the other games have to offer. Since I have the option to play the nice game now, I will (if I finally decide to buy a 360), while I wait for the epic one. Since you are in this forum I believe you're doing the same.

I'm just in a Forza vs GT thread doing what I'm supposed to do :lol:
 
After playing forza 3 for the last 2 weeks and have had GT5 Prologue since it's release, I don't think forza can be copared to GT5 since GT5P looks, handles and sounds better than forza 3 specially the Ferrari F2007.
The developers of forza 3 promised the best racing game ever but could not deliver on their promises, game looks and feels rushed so I will gladly wait for GT5 to arrive next year, that way I can use my Turbo S wheel with it (upgrade for my G25).
 
I find that "I would rather play a worse game now than a better game latter" attitude quite amusing. Of course I would rather wait for the good stuff, why the hell you think otherwise? :lol:

However, when you misunderstand me is when you assume I'm a GT fanboy. I'm not blind to what the other games have to offer. Since I have the option to play the nice game now, I will (if I finally decide to buy a 360), while I wait for the epic one. Since you are in this forum I believe you're doing the same.

I'm just in a Forza vs GT thread doing what I'm supposed to do :lol:

By claiming the visuals are better? Which they are...but does that make the game better?

No. :sly:

After playing forza 3 for the last 2 weeks and have had GT5 Prologue since it's release, I don't think forza can be copared to GT5 since GT5P looks, handles and sounds better than forza 3 specially the Ferrari F2007.
The developers of forza 3 promised the best racing game ever but could not deliver on their promises, game looks and feels rushed so I will gladly wait for GT5 to arrive next year, that way I can use my Turbo S wheel with it (upgrade for my G25).

Looks better? Yes, definitely.

Handles and sounds better? No, hell no to the latter. The F2007 sounds good, but it doesn't sound anything like the F2007 does in real life.
 
By claiming the visuals are better? Which they are...but does that make the game better?

No. :sly:

It surely makes a game better graphically, which is all I claimed with the screenshot.

The whole attitude thing is only referring to his amusing answer :cool:
 
I don't think forza can be copared to GT5 since GT5P looks, handles and sounds better than forza 3 specially the Ferrari F2007.

GT5P looks worse while racing, only replays looks better. Sound is worse. Handling is much worse. AI is much worse. Upgrades and tuning are like a joke in comparison to Forza 3

Welcome to real world
 
GT5P looks worse while racing, only replays looks better. Sound is worse. Handling is much worse. AI is much worse. Upgrades and tuning are like a joke in comparison to Forza 3

Welcome to real world

:lol:

I'm loving this thread since the NeoGAF one got old to the people over there. This dude is priceless. First it's a lot of nonsense about GT4 physics, now this :lol:
 
That's a rather narrow definition of the term "simulation", which btw translates just fine into "representation" in my dictionary ;)

Because, by your definition, no consumer equipment has the processing power at this moment in time, why should we even bother to discuss these games?

You just don't get a "physics" engine right now, that's why I prefer the term "game engine".

It should in my view recreate the real life as good as is technically possible with the limited help from visual, aurel and tactile clues from the monitor, speakers and a FFB wheel. I agree, a sim racer should have an emphasis on how a car probably reacts at 160 kph going into a sweeper. But it also should represent that as believable as possible, because otherwise: why bother playing the game?

Being a skilled video gamer doesn't mean being a skilled real world racing driver. And the opposite is also quite true.

I have no problems whatsoever that T10 and PD each have their very own approach and thus each game has a distinctive feel to it.

I just wonder if the folks at T10 really do know the quintessence of racing. In Dan's world it's all pimp-my-ride land. They simply don't know. It's really hopeless - judging from what I've learned so far from FM3, it's an all singing, all dancing, all shiny wonderland. It's not about racing, it's hardly about the cars because they have no respect whatsoever for those wonderful pieces of engineering.

I tried hard to get the most fun out of FM2 and played it countless hours. It could be done to have a good time racing (online), no painting, tuning, selling, amassing ludicrous amounts of CRs. But it was never the main focus of the game.

On the other side, there's Codemasters. They know. Shame really the game engine isn't more of a challenge. But as far as simulating races, Grid still is the best choice. But a bit too blunt even for my standards. The constant pressure was huge fun and the damage handling put the stakes very high. THus the rewind feature made a lot of sense - where in FM3 it somehow doesn't

So what's left? Gran Turismo. A very sophisticated approach. I like sophistication. The whole franchise breathes it.

Online play was really what kept me coming back to FM2, but there's something about GT which makes it unique. They maybe don't know , but they understand.

So if the experience gets reduced to "physics" I'm forced to listen to the PR chaps of each company. Which I hardly ever do anyways, because, you know, they usually lie to you.

No... my example was merely to point out that to exclude a game from being called a proper simulation because of graphics is a narrow definition... but contrawise, to exclude it because of some imagined lack in the physics engine is also a step too far (otago's rant on GT4 not being as good as LFS) simply because all "simulator" games are limited by the hardware they're on.

I don't take an exclusive view on simulators in this vein... because by that definition, no simulator is ever really a simulator... not until they actually put you inside a virtual car, which can virtually crash, with a virtual airbag going off in your face giving you virtual burns. :lol:

-

I agree with most of what you've said, actually... except that being a good video game driver should translate fine into being a good real-life driver if the simulation... errh... game... covers all the right bases. In other words, cars go left when you steer left, they go right when you steer right, and they understeer into the barriers if you slam on the brakes too deep into a turn. In this way, GT was pretty good preparation for real-life, for me. I knew what the racing line was, I knew how to clip an apex... slow-in, fast-out... weight transfer... all that jazz... and I was much faster than other track virgins (in my first track outing) through the slaloms and down the track. Hell, I was lapping faster than some guys with lighter and faster cars (though nowhere near as fast as the guy with the M3 at the same session... but a car like that... just not fair... :lol: ) due to better technique... and not track familiarity or experience.

And all the things that seemed "unrealistic" to me about GT4 just clicked... they made sense. There's that understeer... here... here... and especially in this corner... where on the road, the car was incredibly neutral. Snap-oversteer on track is almost impossible to elicit on my car... but on cars which grudgingly do so in GT4, they also... grudgingly... do so in real life, on track.

That's what separates a "sim" game from an "arcade" game. And in this sense, SHIFT comes across as terribly arcade, where GT5P comes across as truly sim-like, despite one having more detailed tire physics than the other. I'm not qualified to comment on Forza, though... which probably makes this comment somewhat pointless... but there... :lol:
 
Very interesting of course, but can't see any connection with what I wrote. Is it your blog or something?

Ops sorry. This has to do with what you posted:

The last guy that tried to pull off the "GT looks worse in gameplay" move got an endless streak of "You're wrong" so I'll just repeat the post here:

 
Jesus, Dravonic...

Huge pictures are huge....

...You've just burned out 2 gigs of my RAM. :irked: :P
 
Ops sorry. This has to do with what you posted:

LOL. Looks like you just wasted a lot of your time.

Forza 2 environment looks better than GT5P, just make two races in both games one after another on Suzuka.

Bland textures, 2D trees, not high class lighting - GT5P Suzuka still shares too much with GT4. Sand traps looks especially bad.

Replays are awesome, no other game gets close to GT5P replays
 
LOL. Looks like you just wasted a lot of your time.

Forza 2 environment looks better than GT5P, just make two races in both games one after another on Suzuka.

Bland textures, 2D trees, not high class lighting - GT5P Suzuka still shares too much with GT4

What the ****? :odd:

Can I buy weed from you?
 
LOL. Looks like you just wasted a lot of your time.

Forza 2 environment looks better than GT5P, just make two races in both games one after another on Suzuka.

Bland textures, 2D trees, not high class lighting - GT5P Suzuka still shares too much with GT4. Sand traps looks especially bad.

Replays are awesome, no other game gets close to GT5P replays
terribletrees.jpg

What was that about 2D trees again?
 
LOL. Looks like you just wasted a lot of your time.

Forza 2 environment looks better than GT5P, just make two races in both games one after another on Suzuka.

Bland textures, 2D trees, not high class lighting - GT5P Suzuka still shares too much with GT4. Sand traps looks especially bad.

Replays are awesome, no other game gets close to GT5P replays

Oh sorry, I though we were comparing overall graphics, not trees or sand traps. My bad.

On the bolded part, if you think GT5P's lighting is worse than Forza 3's I rest my case. You must be blind.

I don't know why I bothered after reading what you had to say about GT4's physics.

What was that about 2D trees again?

The bland textures. Don't forget the bland textures. Oh, and the "not high class lighting" too. But the replays are awesome. You gotta hand it down to Turn 10 because the replays are awesome. Don't ask me how can gameplay be bland and replays be awesome when they are exactly the same thing. I can't explain you that. Gameplay is bad but replays are awesome. Period.

...

Priceless :lol:
 
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Report him/her. It's already spammed enough threads with useless bs as is, we don't need another.
 
^ I don't think we can. It looks like people are entitled to say what they think, no matter how absurd or wrong it may be.
 
^ I don't think we can. It looks like people are entitled to say what they think, no matter how absurd or wrong it may be.

Spam, my brotha'. Spam.

'Tis always the topic of reports, and spam follows this hippie wherever he goes.
 
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