Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.

[dzidza]

I would like to point out there is a lot of the exact opposite here as well. People are constantly talking down other racing sims and praising GT like it's the holy grail. It goes all sorts of ways. And I'm curious how many people here have actually played any other racing sim in great detail, whether it be Forza, Race 07, GTR2, etc.



Looking through that thread and looking over the photos I can say that I agree with many of the people. It's impressive the amount of detail PD puts into their models, but what is the point of putting little letters on the headlamps? It seems like PD is devoting to much of their time to the wrong thing.

Dear Joey D, i have played almost any racing game on PC, and from my point of view gt5p is much closer to them then Forza 2 is. As a sim racer, i love both forza 2 and gt5p, and will love forza 3 and gt5, that is way i hate when someone is trashing a game that is better physics wise and didn't even played it properly. U can not compare the games physics through controller.

As far as details go, satan claimed that forza 3 has better quality cars, and thats why i posted that link. Of course those details are unnecessary, but it shows how much attention PD is putting into their game, and i can bet, the same amount goes for physics and content.

 

[SatansReverence]

Besides all of this... Do you even own a PS3?? Have you played both games?? and can you speak out of experience on both games?? Or are you just going on what you read about GT?

Oh, so that is what you call rubber banding.

I remember it being refered to as the garbage collision physics.

Well, I am talking about the fact that when you hit someone their car goes flying off at what ever speed you were doing and you slow down to their speed with no repercussions.

If you try that in Forza good luck.

Sorry for any confusion.

Dear Joey D, i have played almost any racing game on PC, and from my point of view gt5p is much closer to them then Forza 2 is. As a sim racer, i love both forza 2 and gt5p, and will love forza 3 and gt5, that is way i hate when someone is trashing a game that is better physics wise and didn't even played it properly. U can not compare the games physics through controller.

As far as details go, satan claimed that forza 3 has better quality cars, and thats why i posted that link. Of course those details are unnecessary, but it shows how much attention PD is putting into their game, and i can bet, the same amount goes for physics and content.

1. I have NEVER seen GT5 compared to PC sims yet I have many times with Forza and the main sim racing reviewers give Forza 2 higher scores on physics compared to GT5

2. Those pictures also show how much detail PD just don't care about. Look at the parcking sensors compared to Forza. They are just little octagons where as in Forza they are buetifully round. same goes for other smooth surfaces in Forza they are smooth where as in GT5 there are noticable polys on obvious things like exhaust pipes.

 

[dzidza]

Oh, so that is what you call rubber banding.

I remember it being refered to as the garbage collision physics.

Well, I am talking about the fact that when you hit someone their car goes flying off at what ever speed you were doing and you slow down to their speed with no repercussions.

If you try that in Forza good luck.

Sorry for any confusion.

Do you, or don't you own PS3 and GT5p??????
this question is not a rocket science, but if you can't answer it then ........

 

[Blitz187]

Oh, so that is what you call rubber banding.

I remember it being refered to as the garbage collision physics.

Well, I am talking about the fact that when you hit someone their car goes flying off at what ever speed you were doing and you slow down to their speed with no repercussions.

If you try that in Forza good luck.

Sorry for any confusion.

Ok, that falls under collision physics and I do agree they need work... so does the penalty system online and the fact that taking shortcuts is so easy... I could go on and name a lot of other things that could be better or fixed with GT, but I atleast dont go around saying FM has "garbage" this and "garbage" that... if it's garbage as you say, why have they sold so many copies of the game worldwide??? I guess they all bought garbage in your eyes then...

 

[Joey D]

Dear Joey D, i have played almost any racing game on PC, and from my point of view gt5p is much closer to them then Forza 2 is. As a sim racer, i love both forza 2 and gt5p, and will love forza 3 and gt5, that is way i hate when someone is trashing a game that is better physics wise and didn't even played it properly. U can not compare the games physics through controller.

So you are telling me I have to go and spend a couple hundred dollars on two steering wheels and a mount to compare the two games? Really? Wheels aren't to the point yet, and neither is game design for that matter, where you can actually feel the difference between cars through a wheel controller. A Honda Civic should not feel the same as a purpose build Le Mans racer.

 

[dzidza]

So you are telling me I have to go and spend a couple hundred dollars on two steering wheels and a mount to compare the two games? Really? Wheels aren't to the point yet, and neither is game design for that matter, where you can actually feel the difference between cars through a wheel controller. A Honda Civic should not feel the same as a purpose build Le Mans racer.

Well that's your problem if you can't feel the difference using wheel, maybe that is why you can't race with the best, and they are lapping you (sorry i just had to say this, nothing personal 👍).

I am not say you should buy anything, i am just saying that i can give better comparison between two games if i played them with proper setup.

 

[SatansReverence]

So you are telling me I have to go and spend a couple hundred dollars on two steering wheels and a mount to compare the two games? Really? Wheels aren't to the point yet, and neither is game design for that matter, where you can actually feel the difference between cars through a wheel controller. A Honda Civic should not feel the same as a purpose build Le Mans racer.

Oh you better not be talking about Forza there.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Because his day was made before he could do so?

 

[Ranko_SD]

You do realise that Jeremy Clarkson is a very bad driver yes?

His words might aswell be as useful as asking the pope if he is an athiest.

This is getting more interesting than i thought it would...
Please, tell me why is JC a very bad driver, oh, and please make a long post, i'm going for my popcorns

 

[SatansReverence]

This is getting more interesting than i thought it would...
Please, tell me why is JC a very bad driver, oh, and please make a long post, i'm going for my popcorns

Don't need a long post to explain how watching the 10 seasons of TG I have on my computer that show he is slow to react, slow on the gear change and cannot push a car even to 75% of its limits.

 

[Blitz187]

A Honda Civic should not feel the same as a purpose build Le Mans racer.

Have you played GT5 recently with a wheel?? The cars do not feel the same... all cars feel different when driven with a good FFB wheel...

 

[dzidza]

I must say this, even i don't agree with Satan, i love this debate, and i love when someone has a different points of view and tries to defend them no matter what. Satan thank you for this (all though i never thought i be thanking Satan ) i will sign of for now 👍, and keep it civil

 

[Joey D]

Well that's your problem if you can't feel the difference using wheel, maybe that is why you can't race with the best, and they are lapping you (sorry i just had to say this, nothing personal 👍).

I am not say you should buy anything, i am just saying that i can give better comparison between two games if i played them with proper setup.

Controller are not sophisticated enough yet to properly give you the feel of driving a car, which is my point. This happens on GT, Forza, everything. Unless they can get a steering wheel simulate what the on-screen car's wheel would be like, it's really not that much different than a controller.

And about getting lapped and what not, I'm pretty sure that's because I don't spend the time to actually be great at the game. I'd rather drive an actual car.

Oh you better not be talking about Forza there.

What? Where in the gods name do you get that from?

Have you played GT5 recently with a wheel?? The cars do not feel the same... all cars feel different when driven with a good FFB wheel...

Yes, a buddy of mine has that G25 wheel from Logitech. It feels better than older models, but it still can simulate the differences enough.

 

[SatansReverence]

Controller are not sophisticated enough yet to properly give you the feel of driving a car, which is my point. This happens on GT, Forza, everything. Unless they can get a steering wheel simulate what the on-screen car's wheel would be like, it's really not that much different than a controller.



What? Where in the gods name do you get that from?

Well I was just going to tear that statement apart but I decided to st of ask if that was directed towards Forza.

For the record, there is a huge difference between LMP's and civics in Forza 2 even when playing with a gamepad.

 

[Blitz187]

Yes, a buddy of mine has that G25 wheel from Logitech. It feels better than older models, but it still can simulate the differences enough.

So then you do agree it simulates it to a certain extent, instead of not at all..

 

[Joey D]

Well I was just going to tear that statement apart but I decided to st of ask if that was directed towards Forza.

So then you do agree it simulates it to a certain extent, instead of not at all..

It's sort of hard to explain what I am talking about I suppose. Yes cars feel different to a degree, but the controller input method doesn't really vary from one car to another. It doesn't feel like you are actually driving a car, just making small inputs on a wheel instead of on a D paid or analogue sticks. This is why I see no difference between using a controller over a wheel, it's up to personal preference really.

If you drive a Civic in the game, whether it be Forza or GT, the steering brakes, and acceleration control feels the same as an Audi Le Mans car. It is just not possible to simulate anything other wise at this time. It's not really a criticism of the games, more of a criticism of the input devices.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I drive with pad, because im handicapped, or disabled or however you want to call it so i cant use a wheel.

The difference between FWD, RWD, 4x4, mid engine cars, etc. is HUGE, incredible huge! And the difference between the Ford GT LM and a... Ford Focus ST is immense feeling, i cant even explain it (i wont even mention the F2007).

Im not saying its not like that in Forza, i dont care, but saying theres no difference in the feeling of the cars in GT5P is plain wrong, sorry.

And @SatansReverence: If you havent played GT5P, stop comparing physics, please.

 

[Leonidae]

Don't need a long post to explain how watching the 10 seasons of TG I have on my computer that show he is slow to react, slow on the gear change and cannot push a car even to 75% of its limits.

Okay, let's see YOU drive any of those cars up to 75% or higher without killing yourself. Start with.. say, Koenigsegg? and in real life, please.💡 Oh wait, you can't, you probably don't even have a license. And my last point..

what the hell has JC to do with GT5? You're grasping straws and trying to direct the attention away from the ridiculous claims you keep making. Just stop posting if you don't have anything solid to back it up.

 

[paskowitz]

The MS wheel might not have all the bells or whistles but it is accurate, the FFB is strong and it is sturdy when used properly. Anyone who says the padals are weak or the wheel isn't centered should stop obusing it.

Just browsing through this thread looking for a good laugh... oh what is this... I found one... lol. Sure, there are some things that can be held in opinion, like physics, features etc, but if there is one fact it is this, the 360 wheel is utter crap! No it is not an opinion it is a fact. 200 degree turning radius, a single motor, plastic grips (that shed), plastic paddles, plastic pedals, extremely weak pedals, and on and on. And what makes it really bad is that it is even not as good (features, level of FFB, accuracy, realism, build quality etc) as the DFP which is like a million years old. Not to mention it only works with the 360. And it overheats and sometimes melts. You say its FFB is strong. Um, uh...no, no its not (this is not even up for debate. The almost antique DFP has more FFB). I would have a more engaging time wrestling a baby than turning the 360 wheel.

Everything* else you have said so far has been been just you expressing your opinion in your own special way but this, this is crossing the line.

*almost

 

[WolfRacer543]

what the hell has JC to do with GT5? You're grasping straws and trying to direct the attention away from the ridiculous claims you keep making. Just stop posting if you don't have anything solid to back it up.

Someone bought it up in promotion of GT4, Satan wasn't the one to bring it up. Give him a break, he's made some bad points and some good points, his only crime was trying to convince a bunch of GT fanboys of anything

*snip*

Simply put GT5 will have:

1. Better graphics
2. Better physics
...*snip*...

Need I say anymore!!

Really?? So you must have a copy of both GT5 and Forza 3 to be able to say that... can you tell us where you got them? All the rest of us are dying to play them

 

[Leonidae]

I will give him a break once he takes his ridiculous claims from the GT5 section to the fixbox 360 Forza Schmorza section.

 

[killanite]

I will give him a break once he takes his ridiculous claims from the GT5 section to the fixbox 360 Forza Schmorza section.

He's obviously just trolling here to piss us off, he could easily go to a forza fan site and everyone (save a few people who are not completely biased) will agree with him and everything he says, but what would be the fun in that, he'd rather come here and try and convince us with what he thinks is right, cause trolls can't stand it when people disagree with them.. I suggest you and everyone else stop feeding him, just let this thread die and him with it...

 

[WolfRacer543]

I will give him a break once he takes his ridiculous claims from the GT5 section to the fixbox 360 Forza Schmorza section.

Its not a ridiculous claim that Jeremy Clarkson isn't a brilliant driver

 

[etp_ayer]

...some bad points and some good points, his only crime was trying to convince a bunch of GT fanboys...

Most of the points were bad...nothing but his own opinions, which he claimed as facts. Only assumption, but he is only here to provoke and heat up some members or GT-"fanboys" (on a GT-related Fansite). And there are guys out there, who enjoy to piss off people like that.

Go to an BMW-related Site and claim Audi is so much better...you know whats gonna happen. And as he can run his "mouth" so good on these type of things, i dont think he does backup from a nanny, Wolf.

 

[Lucas]

Oh, you can in GT4? you can also go 400+ mph in GT4.

To the Ludicruous Claims Thread you go! Nobody has attained more than 382.45MPH in GT4!

Let me go for my popcorns.

 

[Leonidae]

Its not a ridiculous claim that Jeremy Clarkson isn't a brilliant driver

he's better than you or me. And let's stop this offtopic nonsense and ignore this brat, shall we?

 

[niky]

Instead of dumbing down the physics for the lesser skilled it layers the assists over the top.

Is it just me, or are you completely ignoring my post twenty pages ago pointing out that GT5P doesn't dumb down the physics in professional mode and that the arcade mode is just there for beginners? Absolutely no rubberbanding in intermediate and professional online... and since when was it a sin to have both arcade and sim modes?

A troll keeps repeating the same arguments ad nauseum despite arguments to the contrary with evidence to back them up. You just keep spouting the same arguments over and over again. It's getting tiring.

This is getting more interesting than i thought it would...
Please, tell me why is JC a very bad driver, oh, and please make a long post, i'm going for my popcorns

Jeremy Clarkson is a hoon.

He is a decent driver, yes... anyone who drives cars for a living ought to know how to correct a powerslide, hit an apex and change gears. But JC's driving for TG consists mostly of going sideways, making smoke and occassionally spinning.

Have you played GT5 recently with a wheel?? The cars do not feel the same... all cars feel different when driven with a good FFB wheel...

They feel different with a controller, too. You just have to learn to read the nuances of car behavior. It got so in GT4 that I could tell the difference between two cars without ever having to see the outside of them.

By "feel" alone, you could differentiate an Acura RSX and a Honda Integra... which were technically the same car, just tuned slightly different.

And @SatansReverence: If you havent played GT5P, stop comparing physics, please.

I'm sure that's a question we're all dying to hear answered? So... have you? SR?

 

[pay2021]

I'ts good to debate, i think is a human right.
But the debate dies when the 2 parts(GT&FM) thinks its own the absolutely true, thas what i call fundamentalism.

And i own both GT5P (and 1,2,4) and FM2, Forcha is good, the livery editor is really good.

But in the overall experience (graphics, MUSIC!!, menus, in race inmersion) GT5P wins for me, is in another level.

Sorry my english.

 

[amar212]

EVERYONE, please - IGNORE THAT POOR TROLL.

Here's why:

1. He clearly does not drive even the Forza 2 with the wheel. So, after that confession he does not even know what he's talking about when he gives his claims regarding the physics of the Forza games,

2. He clearly does not know anything regarding GT5, Spec III physics or how does driving GT games with the wheel actually feels like,

3. He clearly does not know anything about driving games in general, because if he would know anything thten he would know that both GT and Forza series are pretty much pinnacles of console-simulation driving in their own areas of interest and overall pinnacle in the overall genre,

4. He is clearly not true automotive fan, because if so he would respect Gran Turismo in the first place and Jeremy Clarkson in the second,

5. He clearly does not know anything about anything because all his "opinions" are based on some "other people" opinions which means he does not even know what he talks about.

6. He is clearly a troll who know nothing about facts because he does not know anything for real - if he would, than he would know that, for instance, Gran Turismo 4 had B-Spec driver before Forza's Avatar system (GT4 was released in Japan in January 2005, while Forza was released in NA in May 2005) or that first game that had PhotoMode was not PGR3 but SegaGT2002).

Ignore that pathetic troll, it's the best you can do. He brings shame to all true Forza fans, myself included.

However, bring on the true discussion regarding both games.

Constructive criticism in one thing, childish trolling is another.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

I have to give my input on this one.

First of all, I was a controller-only player up until the last years of GT4. I was Israel's GT4 champion in 05 (doesn't mean anything, which I will explain why in a minute). Thanks to that title I got to go to ESWC that same year, and try my chance at the world championship in GT4 (I didn't win).

Couple of things to note: I was one of the very few to use a controller. Most of the challengers used the DFP. The last race for the title was on Circuit de la Sarthe, with 4 players using the DFP on the Pescarolo GT race car. It was intense and immensely good to watch. When I got back from Paris, my DFP was already waiting for me. Now, to say that I felt difference between using the controller and the wheel would be an understatement. The difference in feel is like night and day. Now, I personally don't have a driver's license, so my word on the subject may not be the most professional. However, even my friends with dl say that the game feels incredibly realistic.

Now here is the catch, as I see it, with this whole 'simulation' aspect. GT self advertises itself as the real driving simulator. So, I think the key word here is driving. To me it means that the most basic part of simulation in the game is the driving aspect, and the way the cars behave while on the race track. I don't think it can be argued that the feel of the cars themselves and how they drive in extremely well done. The parts that the game is getting all the boo for are the damage, racing rules, tire simulation (granted, a BIG part), and several others which I can't think about (please help me out with this).

Even though the game is missing on several key aspects (which in part maybe will be fixed in GT5), I can feel the difference between all cars. The differences can never be as evident as real life - no matter which game it is - as driving a corvette and a nissan GTR in real life is irreplaceable. Games and simulations on the PC and consoles can give you THIS (demonstrates with hands) much feel - because they are meant to be also games. Forza and GT and many of the simulators on PC are like that. In spite of this, to me (and my friends and many many people all over the world), the driving aspect of GT is fascinating - according to them it feels very real and very convincing.

And while you can get better time with a controller over a wheel, the feel is not comparable! GT5P's cars feel different, and I blame the case of minor differences on the fact that we can't feel the cars themselves - we can only feel an aspect of their behavior, and it is that particular feeling where GT excels in. It simulates those cars basic feel differently, depending on each car, and in the end that is what the game's motto is all about - it simulates the way the car behaves on tarmac, in a realistic way. It is not the best, but it is better than others and is believable. That motto has evolves with the years, but back in the days of GT1 that was very much the case. This time it is a very different story, because we all need to feel that the game has evolved with the times. I (and many many others) feel that the physics are still top-tier.

There are many senseless post in this thread, and mine might be with them, but I feel that many players think of the whole aspect in the wrong way (to a degree). Fanboys asides, GT and Forza each simulate different aspects very well and in a very realistic way (I never played Forza, hence why I never said anything about the it is played [because I just know that someone will try using that against me], but this is the impression I got from reading on GTP and other forums). There is no BETTER, there is better in this better in that.

The bottom line is that to me GT is better because if certain reasons that include ideals and aspects of simulation. Forza is, no doubt about it, a great experience, but it is not on the same page as GT to me (READ AS same page, NOT AS same league).

Wall of text off, maybe will continue later.​