Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.

[Black Chamber]

So you say that you went over to troll and see what reaction you could stir up on a developers forum, and you think it was 'clever'..?

I didn't say I thought I was "clever" to do what I did. I was proving a point, which I will explain at the end of this post.

Not at all. I'm restating the initial point which was that rather than addressing the problem of people breaking their rules, the FM.net staff prefer to ban anyone who talks about GT5 which isn't against their rules.

Exactly - and that is what I fail to understand about Che's decision to just ban any GT5 talk whatsoever.

Flaming and abuse is against their rules, talking about GT is not.

And yet anyone that does that - even a Forza fan that also likes GT will be banned for merely mentioning GT at all. I agree, it's silly and against their own TOS agreement.

No-one who broke their rules was threatened with a ban. Someone who didn't break their rules was.

Myself and one other [that we know of] were banned just for talking about GT5 over there - and I wasn't even trying to do anything short of having an adult discussion about the two games - but then what I knew would happen occurred and Che did what I hoped he would do.

I insinuated nothing. I did state that it was horrible moderation.

Quoted for truth. 👍

It was. The moderation here at GTPlanet is astoundingly accurate and fair. It also goes in accordance with the TOS provided when signing up here. Che Chou should troll around in here to see how to do his own job better.

I will back up this since this list was NOT made up in intention to "prove which game is better" but in order to showcase the technical and content-wise differences after small amount of info leaked after E3 on both sides.

Using it for any kind of "proving this or that regarding actual quality of any title" is simply dishonorable intention.

Exactly. I was simply using the list as a contention for a good discussion - not to say one game was far superior to the other. If I had wanted to do that, I would have changed all the Forza 3 specs to silly, comically wrong numbers and specs just to troll and incite a flame war - but I made it as accurate as possible just to see if any sort of civilized discussion could occur over there. Sadly, I knew the outcome and Che Chou provided that outcome sooner than I expected.

You really are just arguing for the sake of arguing..

No offense phil-t - but why are you arguing with a moderator anyway?

Okay, back onto my soapbox.

I only posted that discussion over at forzamotors.net to prove two things to myself - and I suppose to everyone else also - and those are:

• Turn 10 is afraid of the Gran Turismo series
• The Forza community is one of the most childish, fanboyish-to-a-fault and rude communities out there

I carefully worded what I wrote in the initial post - pointing out that both games are great and we should discuss both of their strengths and weaknesses. I even titled that thread "GT5 & FM3 - Comparing the two titans of racing games" just to show that it wasn't a trolling post - or even a GT5>FM3/FM3>GT5 type of thread.

Some of the responses were legitimate; going so far as to respond to the contrary of my expectations - some of the members there actually got into the discussion and gave opinions about both games without being nasty or unnecessarily fanboyish or rude. One person even said this:

"I will have to say this, I visited a GT forum earlier today and everything seemed really nice and helpful. If somebody had a question or comment all the "VIP's" didn't spew insults or abuse them. They seemed genuinely nice and helpful, even encouraging. I don't see those traits around here often enough."

[From my dealings here, he must have been talking about GTPlanet, because I enjoy every second of my time spent here and everyone is really nice and helpful. 👍]

Then, Che Chou stepped in and closed the thread. What really struck me as odd, was that he also removed the list I posted from not only my initial post - but from all the successive "quote posts" of it throughout the entire thread!

That makes me think that Turn 10 doesn't want to acknowledge that Gran Turismo 5 will have features that Forza 3 won't, or that are superior to their game.

Che Chou also changed my initial post body to this:

"Hi, this is my first trolling attempt at FM.net and my account is now permanently nuked.

Bye!

How mature and as Famine so illustriously pointed out, he is violating their own TOS and is showcasing horrendous moderation skills by banning the OP who didn't break their rules and not the flamers and haters that did.

"the fact that your name is 'Metal Gear' and you have no gamerscore(which means likely no 360)

LOL! Actually, I have an XBOX360 - I just don't play online anymore and I don't have a high gamerscore because I don't sit around all day spamming achievements out of the few games I play on it.

How is having a "Metal Gear" identity on a Microsoft site a "giveaway" that I was trolling anyway? "Metal Gear Solid: Rising" is coming out for the XBOX360 - so I really laughed when I saw all that nonsense.

 

[Terronium-12]

You sir, are a troll...

...Just kidding.

I don't want to get into the Gamerscore/Trophy bs as I've been saying it adds nothing but numbers, but accounting for credibility based on Gamerscore and your XB/XBL G-tag is a bit on the lonely side of things. As for She, I've noticed that he's an ass pretty much everywhere he goes whether it be NeoGaf, 1UP, FM Community or otherwise - so let's just stop talking about him. 👍

In the meantime, what strikes me as odd is a video I've watched sometime yesterday and Dan explains that the second disc is like "Two years worth of free DLC." beforehand he said something to the effect of the models were updated. I hope that doesn't mean ported without much done to the model other than "adding" additional polygons.

 

[Black Chamber]

I found this to be quite hilarious:

1). Effective immediately, all Forzamotorsport.net forum accounts will switch over to a Gamertag identity system whereby you must have an Xbox Live Gamertag in order to contribute (i.e., post) to the forums.

2). Forzamotorsport.net is a place to hold civil discussions about the Forza Motorsport franchise, racing games, the Xbox 360 platform, real-world cars, the automotive industry, and the world of racing

3). Trolling: Trolling is considered to be the act of purposely being disingenuous to an active discussion. Negative commentary on given topics is by no means disallowed; however, such comments should attempt to be substantiated. No matter your supposed intent, if the forum administrators perceive you as a troll making unsubstantiated comments in an attempt to provoke the forum body, actions may be taken by the administrators.

4). Moderation of Forzamotorsport.net is not by committee. All decisions with regards to thread closure and movement, permanent and temporary bans, and membership issues are made by Turn 10 and its forum admins are final. That being said, constructive criticisms and suggestions are welcome, provided they are directed to Turn 10 Administration via private e-mail, here.

That is really interesting!

1). So, if I have a PS3 and no Xbox then I can't participate without faking one. Kind of one-sided, eh? And they say GTPlanet members are the fanboys. I don't see a PSN requirement for posting here.

2). They say you can discuss other racing games - yet you get banned for doing so.

3). They will allow you to make negative comments based on substantiated opinions - well, unless you mention Gran Turismo 5. 👍

4). Don't be outspoken on the forums! Just send a private message to Che Chou and you will be ridiculed, banned and forgotten.

 

[warpspeed2slow]

Black Chamber your a GT fanboy laughing at the forza fanboys and starting threads there with the intention of causing problems. Sounds mentally healthy, good luck with that. Amar's comment about the misuse of the list was clearly aimed at you and it is funny how you deflected it and denied it.

Fanboyism is not needed here as both will be great games which can be inferred due to their pedigree.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Umm...Black Chamber is far from being a fanboy...be careful of accusing someone of being a fanboy.

 

[Terronium-12]

Where do these people keep coming from?

 

[Strittan]

To a certain degree I can understand why the Forza forum is what it is though. It's a forum dedicated to Forza only after all, and with employees from the developer.

 

[alba]

check your pm famine!

 

[blademask]

As the OPster... can we just lock this nonsense? Nothing good will come from it.

 

[Hereward]

Famine can I use this as my signiture mate?

(besides my dislike of crap moderators and their crap moderation)

I thought I was reading a long lost monty python scetch....pure brilliance!

But in all seriousness, there seems to be alot of "new" members making there 1st posts on this thread.....make of that what you wil, but as I've just caught up and read the last 4 pages it's prety obvious this thread is moving in ever decreaseing circles, amusing ones yes, but ultimatly the same points are being raised and awnsered again and again. To be honest the whole subject has been covered and is bordering on colapse into the rediculous....a bit like my spelling.

 

[Terronium-12]

check your pm famine!

As the OPster... can we just lock this nonsense? Nothing good will come from it.

I'll agree this is going downhill quite fast which is why I direct you to what I said earlier...

In the meantime, what strikes me as odd is a video I've watched sometime yesterday and Dan explains that the second disc is like "Two years worth of free DLC." beforehand he said something to the effect of the models were updated. I hope that doesn't mean ported without much done to the model other than "adding" additional polygons.

I know additional tracks and the vehicles themselves are on the second disc, but for the purpose of understanding, the game itself doesn't span across two discs? As in you'll need to save specific UI data or whatever from the second disc to the HDD?

 

[warpspeed2slow]

You say Black Chamber is not a fanboy, I disagree. While I applaud him for his work in translating the GT5 annoucement, some of his other posts earlier in this very thread says he is.

Who is someone who goes to the Forza forums to post a list meant to inflame the members there?

I will enjoy both games when released but there is no doubt that people who like both series are somewhat flamed around here. I am not saying that is not true in the Forza forums but they at least admit it. Here people seem to be in denial and act like it doesn't happen.

 

[alba]

sorry for my post it has nothing to do with anything but i need an answer from a mod that's all ) (I'll buy forza3 too so, no worries about me )

 

[Terronium-12]

sorry for my post it has nothing to do with anything but i need an answer from a mod that's all ) (I'll buy forza3 too so, no worries about me )

My apologies then, although I wouldn't have blamed you if you reported for a close. Hopefully Warp is done and we can all get back to an actual conversation.

 

[Black Chamber]

1). Black Chamber your a GT fanboy laughing at the forza fanboys and starting threads there with the intention of causing problems. 2). Amar's comment about the misuse of the list was clearly aimed at you and it is funny how you deflected it and denied it.

1). I am a GT fanboy! Who ever said that I wasn't? My allegiance is clearly defined - the problem is, I would have played FM3 if it weren't for the boisterous, bias, non-professional manner in which Che Chou and Dan Greenawalt go about handling their PR duties.

2). Amar was commenting on how he didn't intend for his list to be used as the basis of an intended flame war - which it wasn't. I tried to spark an adult conversation using it as a catalyst, when I found out I was preaching to a kindergarten class.

As the OPster... can we just lock this nonsense? Nothing good will come from it.

I really enjoyed this thread, blademask - but I agree that it is going nowhere. It is causing arguments and people who once got along nicely have resorted to name-calling and side-taking.

I will miss it, but I agree - it should be closed. 👍

Great thread though!

You say Black Chamber is not a fanboy, I disagree. 1). While I applaud him for his work in translating the GT5 annoucement, some of his other posts earlier in this very thread says he is.

2). Who is someone who goes to the Forza forums to post a list meant to inflame the members there?

1). Thank you for the kind words about my translation. Anytime GTPlanet needs a translation in any language, I will be here to help. I am proficient in 3 languages - but Japanese is the newest I am learning. I have several friends who live in the "International House" [the hub and living quarters for foreign exchange students from all over the globe] on our Jacksonville State University campus - so any translation we have trouble with can be quickly solved by one of my many friends there.

2). I'm not trying to let my answer get your feathers ruffled - but I wasn't trying to get anything bad started - I just wanted to see how long a simple, mature discussion would take to digress into a flame war/Che Chou banning on the official Turn 10/Forza forums - since they say we are so childish over here on these forums.

 

[niky]

If the risk of flamewars is very imminent, then I think that clearly shows how 'mature' the members of that site are.

This thread has lasted a 100 pages and I see no flamewar going on, so why couldn't it be the same with that site?

That's because the moderators here have been furiously working the PMs, the infractions and such, trying to keep the topic civil. On every page without "Satan's Reverence", we have a factual, albeit heated debate on the relative merits of Forza and GT.

Well... the first hundred or so pages are okay. I find this "poor forza moderation" subtopic off-topic, but since it relates to the original thread topic, (more about the behaviour of Turn10's people), then I guess it's okay.

-

While many "official" boards may not invite comparisons to other products, the fact is that Turn 10 themselves often draw comparisons between their product and others, and there are topics there about other products and how they compare negatively to Forza... so why remove only certain threads?

 

[FyreandIce]

Exactly. I was simply using the list as a contention for a good discussion - not to say one game was far superior to the other. If I had wanted to do that, I would have changed all the Forza 3 specs to silly, comically wrong numbers and specs just to troll and incite a flame war - but I made it as accurate as possible just to see if any sort of civilized discussion could occur over there. Sadly, I knew the outcome and Che Chou provided that outcome sooner than I expected.

If your true intention was to have a civil discussion it would have been posted in the right place from the start and instead of editting the list to suit your own agenda you would have update with the lastest info on both games.

Anyway, enough of that, lets get back to the topic that really isn't the topic

 

[Joey D]

If you are a GT fanboy what's the point of posting in a Forza forum about how their game is worse? Like I said it would be like going on a BMW forum and telling them that Audi's are better. It's flame baiting and it's just looking to stir up trouble.

All to often members of GTP are quick to point the finger at Forza fanboys, but never one of their own. Fanboys of anything are ridiculous.

 

[FyreandIce]

If you are a GT fanboy what's the point of posting in a Forza forum about how their game is worse? Like I said it would be like going on a BMW forum and telling them that Audi's are better. It's flame baiting and it's just looking to stir up trouble.

All to often members of GTP are quick to point the finger at Forza fanboys, but never one of their own. Fanboys of anything are ridiculous.

Fanboys are just as bad on both sides of the fence.

 

[killanite]

All to often members of GTP are quick to point the finger at Forza fanboys, but never one of their own. Fanboys of anything are ridiculous.

That might be true of the GTP members, but at least GTP don't ban the forza fanboys if they don't break the rules.. Case in point : SatansReverence was trolling here for weeks and weeks and wasnt banned even though he called GT an inferior game to Forza (as well as pretty much everything) but wasn't banned until he kept breaking the rules of the forum after being previously warned.

We don't point out GT fans because this is a forum FOR the game, anyone here SHOULD be interested in the game to have even found this forum.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, I happen to be a fanboy, but I usually try to be ridiculous on purpose. Doesn't always work that way, but oh well.

Anyhow, I'm curious as to whether the shortcomings of the 360 in regard FW3 are going to drive deep coffin nails. It can't help that their "definitive" racer may have the fewest cars outside of a handheld game, may work badly for you if you don't have a hard drive or not at all, and have content constricted by the DVD format - and that cramped further by MS's security padding. I have a drive, so mine will install just fine, but what about those Arcade owners who cheaped out? Will they have to get a drive in order to get all the goodies? How big will their garage be?

 

[Joey D]

That might be true of the GTP members, but at least GTP don't ban the forza fanboys if they don't break the rules.. Case in point : SatansReverence was trolling here for weeks and weeks and wasnt banned even though he called GT an inferior game to Forza (as well as pretty much everything) but wasn't banned until he kept breaking the rules of the forum after being previously warned.

We don't point out GT fans because this is a forum FOR the game, anyone here SHOULD be interested in the game to have even found this forum.

Different sites, different rules, different moderation staffs...it's comparing apples to oranges.

I am not a member on the Forza forums so I am unaware of the rules set forth there. If I ever do decide to join I will read their rules and adhere to them.

 

[McLaren]

I am not a member on the Forza forums so I am unaware of the rules set forth there. If I ever do decide to join I will read their rules and adhere to them.

Save your time & don't. People who post logical discussions sooner or later, will get 4-5 members ganging up on you saying you're wrong in childish remarks. This only leads to one of the mods coming in & warning you to stop causing trouble.

I've seen it first hand because I've been warned to stop being a fanboy against American cars when trying to correct these kiddies about Imports being rice. It was incredibly ironic since 4 days earlier, I was having to set an idiot straight about how American cars are not cheap, slow, junkers. Of course, I've also been told not to create accounts to troll the GT vs FM poll thread when I've been there 2 years longer than the accuser.


Point is, it's only a matter of time before you'll try to correct someone & then find out where the majority of the forum sits on a topic while they attempt to insult you. And the best part is, you'll be right & mature about the whole topic and still get PM'd by the mods & every one else just gets off free (Famine's issue with that forum) because the mods over there, find it easier to ban the 1 sensible person instead of the 6 retards the mod agrees with. 👎

 

[FyreandIce]

Save your time & don't. People who post logical discussions sooner or later, will get 4-5 members ganging up on you saying you're wrong in childish remarks. This only leads to one of the mods coming in & warning you to stop causing trouble.

I've seen it first hand because I've been warned to stop being a fanboy against American cars when trying to correct these kiddies about Imports being rice. It was incredibly ironic since 4 days earlier, I was having to set an idiot straight about how American cars are not cheap, slow, junkers. Of course, I've also been told not to create accounts to troll the GT vs FM poll thread when I've been there 2 years longer than the accuser.


Point is, it's only a matter of time before you'll try to correct someone & then find out where the majority of the forum sits on a topic while they attempt to insult you. And the best part is, you'll be right & mature about the whole topic and still get PM'd by the mods & every one else just gets off free (Famine's issue with that forum) because the mods over there, find it easier to ban the 1 sensible person instead of the 6 retards the mod agrees with. 👎

Funny thing is you believe it to be any different here or on any other website.

 

[McLaren]

Funny thing is you believe it to be any different here or on any other website.

Did I say it was any different from any other website? No. I said he shouldn't waste his time. I've seen how Joey posts, & his logic would just be too far above the heads of the members at FM.net.

BTW, it is very different from here. If you think it isn't, please show me where the staff have banned 1 AUP-abiding person & left the rest of the flame baiters off without even a warning. I've been here 5 years, & never seen it. But obviously, you just joined, so you would know exactly how it works around here.

 

[albteman015]

Did I say it was any different from any other website? No. I said he shouldn't waste his time. I've seen how Joey posts, & his logic would just be too far above the heads of the members at FM.net.

BTW, it is very different from here. If you think it isn't, please show me where the staff have banned 1 AUP-abiding person & left the rest of the flame baiters off without even a warning. I've been here 5 years, & never seen it. But obviously, you just joined, so you would know exactly how it works around here.

I completely agree with you. This site is a lot different from many others I have accounts on. Usually the posts here are generally mature and that is probably the result of the moderating staff that is here. I can say that supercars.net is a prime example of how a forum should not be run. Moderators there were friends with some member and biased against other which made the forums a really hostile environment for flaming and fighting.

May I seriously ask why this topic is even being discussed because I don't have the time to look through such a large thread.

 

[FyreandIce]

Did I say it was any different from any other website? No. I said he shouldn't waste his time. I've seen how Joey posts, & his logic would just be too far above the heads of the members at FM.net.

BTW, it is very different from here. If you think it isn't, please show me where the staff have banned 1 AUP-abiding person & left the rest of the flame baiters off without even a warning. I've been here 5 years, & never seen it. But obviously, you just joined, so you would know exactly how it works around here.

I was actually refering to the reactions of members to other peoples opinions.

Also, different website, different rules.

Posting flame baiting threads on FM.net is against the rules.

 

[McLaren]

Iwas actually refering to the reacstions of members to other peoples opinions.

The only time I've ever seen members here react in the same way towards 1 person's post is in this section of the site & that's just because GT5 info was released, so it's that time of the year; so it's going to pass in a month.

Other than this area, nobody on this forum responds so poorly to other members' posts because it isn't allowed. However, the folks on FM.net are free to respond so poorly all they want, 24/7, b/c the mods there don't care.

Also, different website, different rules.

Rules hold no water when even the AUP-creator can't stick to it.

Posting flame baiting threads on FM.net is against the rules.

That has nothing to do with anything I just said.

 

[FyreandIce]

The only time I've ever seen members here react in the same way towards 1 person's post is in this section of the site & that's just because GT5 info was released, so it's that time of the year; so it's going to pass in a month.

Other than this area, nobody on this forum responds so poorly to other members' posts because it isn't allowed. However, the folks on FM.net are free to respond so poorly all they want, 24/7, b/c the mods there don't care.


Rules hold no water when even the AUP-creator can't stick to it.

That has nothing to do with anything I just said.

In my short time here I have seen quiet a few poor replies just like any other forum. Also, I rarely see much (in threads other then the flame baiting comparison ones) of it over at FM.net. Granted it still happens though.

Che didn't create the website let alone the rules.

You are talking about how people posting comparison threads over at FM.net should not result in a ban even though they were created with the purpose of "getting a rise out of people" (i.e flame baiting) which is against the rules.

 

[McLaren]

In my short time here I have seen quiet a few poor replies just like any other forum. Also, I rarely see much (in threads other then the flame baiting comparison ones) of it over at FM.net. Granted it still happens though.

And I bet they are all in this section, as I said.

Che didn't create the website let alone the rules.

Che is still the one who posted the AUP. The issue is that he does not follow it.

You are talking about how people posting comparison threads over at FM.net should not result in a ban even though they were created with the purpose of "getting a rise out of people" (i.e flame baiting) which is against the rules.

You obviously aren't reading my posts fully. I'm talking about how correcting people's inaccuracies leads to forum jumping on you for being a "fanboy" & the mods warning the innocent with a ban rather than the guilty.

This is not limited to thread creating. It has happened everywhere on that forum & has gone beyond the subject of comparing GT to Forza. If you had read my post, you would have seen that I myself, was warned for "causing trouble" even though I was simply correcting another member about Japanese cars & didn't break any rules. Everyone else who was insulting me, however, was fine because they continued to do so.

If you're still lost, the fact is that it does not matter if you create a thread about GT (with or without the intention of flame baiting), another game, cars, or even jump into a previous topic. If you attempt to correct someone on an inaccuracy the rest of the forum doesn't get, chances are you will be jumped on & insulted while the mods stand by and watch, waiting for a chance to give you a warning. The mods there do not exercise equality & even threaten bans should you try to show them their mistakes.