Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

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Lots of random and eclectic testing last night. FF: I ran the Spoon Fit Race Car at 430PP which just hasn't got any top end speed so I only managed 9:25.xx's, the Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS '03 at 440PP which had decent top end but killed its tyres so ran approx the same times and a Civic Type-R (EK) '97 (predictable I know) at 430PP which is definitely doable, I just need to look after the tyres.

I also decided to test some more powerful machinery to go up against the Audi R8 race car. I was looking for something in the region of the 8:40's to keep it close. I first tested the FTO Super Touring Car (587PP-?) and ran a 8:14.xx on the opening lap including having to pass everyone. OK, waaaay too much. I then tested the Amuse NISMO Super Leggera which at 532PP puts it down the pecking order of the pack. The test went up to the first pit stop on lap 5 and I was losing about 5-6 secs a lap, so that would indicated a relatively easy win and a very lonely run as I was miles clear of the pack.

Decisions, decisions...
 
axletramp, I take it your testing was under the old tyre wear regime?

Looks like it will be all-change for enduros now...
 
axletramp, I take it your testing was under the old tyre wear regime?

Looks like it will be all-change for enduros now...

Yep and I always run my tests in-race for accuracy. I haven't had a chance to install and test the new update. I'm aware the tyre wear has been adjusted. Is it worse or better now? Tbh it couldn't get much worse for the Eclipse.

Does that now make any previous runs null and void? ;)
 
I'm gearing up to do this event once I get my login bonus back up to 200%. What's the plan now with the latest update (2.02) and the new tire wear?
 
I'm wondering whether the new tyre wear system could be an advantage to lower powered cars. I could imagine at 200-250bhp the RH tyres might last 6+ laps giving an obvious pit stop advantage. Not going to get a chance to test that for a few days.
 
I'm very interested to see how tire wear is now. From what I'm seeing in other threads tires wear out much faster. This evening I'll do a test run.
 
Hi!
I've been following this thread as I'm also a big fan of the 4H of Nurb. I understand your quest to go as low PP as possible, but I think using Racing tires is missing half the fun.

Anyways, I was trying out the new GT-86, lightly tuned to about 475PP with Sport Soft tires, this proved quite insufficient to threaten the leaders (best lap around 9.11). I did 16 laps, at which point I was 2 minutes behind. But at least I saved the replay and will post a sample of times with the new tire wear (v2.02):

GT1: 8:55 9:14 9:34 (3 lap stints)
FT565: 9:01 9:08 9:25 9:57 (4 lap stints)
BNR34 00': 9:03 9:09 9:23 10:01 (4 lap stints)
CT230R: 9:06 9:09 9:21 9:30 10:07 (5 lap stints)
HPA R32: 9:07 9:15 9:55 10:02 (4 lap stints)
Z-tune-Z33: 8:57 9:55 9:41 (3 lap stints)
BNR34 06': 9:03 9:09 9:20 10:00 10:12 (5 lap stints)
380RS: 9:04 9:18 9:43 (3 lap stints)
R-Tune-R34: 9:09 9:16 10:15 10:04 (5 lap stints)
GT GT-R R34: 9:18 9:26 10:04 10:14 (5 lap stints)
400R:9:33 9:38 9:45 10:46 10:30 (5 lap stints)

The new system seems doesn't seem to very negative to the GT1, maybe because, as it does less laps doesn't need much fuel and can spend that time on the road, where it would otherwise be sitting in the pit waiting for the fuel to refill.
 
I ran the Motor Sport Elise a few days ago and was getting 9:15 or there about on RH. I'm thinking I'll run again and see how the tyre wear comes into play as I believe this car will outlast most on the rubber due to its low weight and power.
 
The new system seems doesn't seem to very negative to the GT1, maybe because, as it does less laps doesn't need much fuel and can spend that time on the road, where it would otherwise be sitting in the pit waiting for the fuel to refill.

Thanks for this. As I understand it the GT1 is running on RH tyres which may well be less affected by the new system. In fact I've read a couple of posts around here showing that some people are getting better wear with them than previously which might explain it.

I ran the Motor Sport Elise a few days ago and was getting 9:15 or there about on RH. I'm thinking I'll run again and see how the tyre wear comes into play as I believe this car will outlast most on the rubber due to its low weight and power.

Let us know how you get on. This could definitely show if the RHs are the way to go now in enduros.
 
The new tire model has definitely changed the 4 hour Nurburgring race. I think for the better, but I'm afraid that all our previous races now need an asterisk!

I've started a new race with a 500PP car on sport softs and can only get 4 good laps with a car that would have previously run 5 laps. After 90 minutes, I'm 30 seconds down to the Amuse S2000 GT1.

The AI is also substantially affected. The Amuse S2000 GTI that we've all run against can no longer run 6 laps. The Amuse S2000 that I'm running against has pitted 3 times so far (lap # 3, lap # 6, and lap # 9). Most of the other AI are only driving 4 laps on their tires, instead of the 5 or 6 lap stints that they used to drive. I'm running against the first lineup with the Mine's BNR34, the FT565 Audi TT, the NISMO Fairlady Z-tune, and the HKS CT230R. I don't know what the other AI cars are doing because of course the game doesn't inform us when they pit.

My feeling is that the Grip level of the sport soft tires is pretty equal to what it was before, but that they behave slightly different as they get worn out. Its easier to spin-out, so the tires feel closer to how they used to feel while driving on-line. I actually did a 360 leaving the final Hohenrain ess, which is a place that I've never spun out before. A new experience!

BTW - I like the new options where we are able to turn various items of the HUD on and off. Just don't turn on the tire wear one or you will get four spinning wheels smack in the middle of your windscreen!

Race update:
I'm now 2 hours and 20 minutes into the race and have the field covered except for the Amuse S2000, who is 40 seconds ahead of me. I'm afraid that I won't be able to catch him. He should pit on laps 18, 21 and 24 while I'll be pitting on laps 17, 21 and 25, so there's no additional time to be gained during pit stops that I can see. The Amuse doesn't lose the 30-45 seconds on his pit-in lap like he used to, so he's too strong for me and for the rest of the field. I don't think I could catch him even with extensive grass-cutting at this point.:grumpy:

Another race update:
I'm now 3 hours into the race and have about a 25 second lead over the 3rd place car who is just in front of the 4th place car, but I'm afraid that I'm now 60 seconds behind the leading Amuse S2000 who is pulling away. I intend to finish and take the 2nd place winnings tonite since I want to watch the replay to check on how all our main competitors have been dealing with the new tire model.

Final race update:
After 4 hours 2 minutes and 48 seconds I've crossed the Finish Line behind the Amuse S2000 GT1 and taken the 2nd place winnings and XP's. I ended up being a full 2 minutes behind the Amuse and slightly more than 1 minute ahead of the 3rd place HPA FT565 Audi TT, and another 15 seconds ahead of the 4th place Mine' BNR34 GTR Vspec. The margin to the Amuse should have been about 20 seconds less, but I actually drove past the pits on lap # 25 and had to turn around on the S/F straight to get back into the pits. I'm expecting to hear from the race stewards any minute now! The Amuse S2000 continued to pit every three laps and never really had a bad lap, so he's just too strong for the rest of the field. His margin to the second best AI, the HPA FT565 Audi was about 3 minutes and 30 seconds at the end of the race.

Finishing order/Margins/Average lap times:
1) Amuse S2000 ---- Winner------ 9m 15seconds
2) GTsail's RX-7 -- 2min-------- 9m 20secs
3) FT565 Audi TT -- 3min30secs - 9m 23secs
4) Mine's BNR Vspec - 3m45secs - 9m 24secs
5) HKS CT230R ------- 4m05secs - 9m 26secs
6) NISMO Fairlady Z - 6m37secs - 9m 31secs
7) Mine's BNR34 N1 -- 7m01secs - 9m 33secs
8) HPA Stage II R32 - 8m05secs - 9m 35secs
9) NISMO GTR R-tune - 9m00secs - 9m 40secs
10) NISMO 380RS Legg - 1 lap down
11) Nissan GT Skyline - l lap down
12) NISMO 400R ------ 1 lap down

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
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GTsail290 and all other endurance runners;

I am new to the whole experience, but have had back to back GV300's one each side of the update, details in my posts here...

I have yet to post my car details for the event, but would also agree that S:S are running very similar lap times, and can be pushed to go the same distance, but I think my error way trying for 20 laps both before and after the update..

I am starting to get a feel for the event, but any comments would be appreciated :)

I may soon start my assault on the 4hr Nurb - see you on the track ;)
 
Race update:
I'm now 2 hours and 20 minutes into the race and have the field covered except for the Amuse S2000, who is 40 seconds ahead of me. I'm afraid that I won't be able to catch him. He should pit on laps 18, 21 and 24 while I'll be pitting on laps 17, 21 and 25, so there's no additional time to be gained during pit stops that I can see. The Amuse doesn't lose the 30-45 seconds on his pit-in lap like he used to, so he's too strong for me and for the rest of the field. I don't think I could catch him even with extensive grass-cutting at this point.:grumpy:

Respectfully,
GTsail

So now a 500PP car on sport soft won't beat the GT1. In the past I beat the GT1 (not turbo) with a 480PP car on sport soft with ease.

Judging by Silent Bob's numbers the GT1 is now running 10 seconds a lap faster. Over the 26 laps that's 4 1/3 minutes.

If the GT1 Turbo benefits similarly... Well it's certainly a new ballgame now.

I just started a race with both the GT1 Turbo and the LMS. Judging by what they've done so far they look to be a bit slower than before. I'll report in the AM.
 
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R8 LMS 27 laps 4:05:08 Average 9:05
GT1 Turbo 27 laps 4:05:27 Average 9:05

Both pitted every 3 laps. The LMS had 0 rear tires the second half of the 3rd lap. The GT1 Turbo had 0 tires the last 1/3 of the 3rd lap.

CTR2 26 laps 4:03:43 Average 9:22

CTR2 also pitted every 3 laps.

The GT1 (which was not in this race) now runs only 5 seconds a lap slower than the GT1 Turbo.
 
R8 LMS 27 laps 4:05:08 Average 9:05
GT1 Turbo 27 laps 4:05:27 Average 9:05

Both pitted every 3 laps. The LMS had 0 rear tires the second half of the 3rd lap. The GT1 Turbo had 0 tires the last 1/3 of the 3rd lap.

CTR2 26 laps 4:03:43 Average 9:22

CTR2 also pitted every 3 laps.

The GT1 (which was not in this race) now runs only 5 seconds a lap slower than the GT1 Turbo.

Very interesting results you got there s2k2k3

The two top dogs only run 27 laps now instead of 28 because of all the extra pits stops they make and it seems that they are slightly slower. You mention the RUF CTR2. Did he come in third in your race? Who came in 4th and how far back was the 4th place car?

Thanks
GTsail
 
Very interesting results you got there s2k2k3

The two top dogs only run 27 laps now instead of 28 because of all the extra pits stops they make and it seems that they are slightly slower. You mention the RUF CTR2. Did he come in third in your race? Who came in 4th and how far back was the 4th place car?

Thanks
GTsail

I came in 3rd in a 111R, but I spent the whole time playing with tire wear. I tried 5 laps, 6 laps, and 4 laps on sport soft. Then I went to race hard and did 5 laps and 4 laps. Finished off on sport soft. The CTR2 was behind me. I don't know who was next. I'll have to check the replay later.

Edit:

RACE REPORT

Ran it again with the 111R, sport soft. The car weighs 905kg. I started the race at 500PP, 288hp. I finished at 493PP, 274hp

This time I was able to beat the LMS. Neither the GT1 nor the GT1 Turbo was in the race

I ran 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 4

My race time was 27 laps 4:05:25
My best lap was 8'51 but most laps were high 8'5X
If I ran 5 laps the tires were just below half when I pitted. 4 laps, tires were just above half.

LMS race time 27 laps 4:05:38

The slower time for the LMS was my fault. In my first test race I just let the 2 rabbits go by when they caught me. In this race I held my line and made him earn it. Plus he spun at least once on his 3rd lap of death.
 
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I am gearing up for this race right now. Im thinking about running my Scirocco built to the GT24 specs that I could find. On race hards, I can lap in 8'53s, but dont know about tire wear. It seems almost too much for the race. Any thoughts?
 
With the new tyre wear it will be more fun I guess, I just ran 2 laps with the BMW GTR Race Car against the Audi R8 LMS and it was head to head, but I had to stop because my rear tyres worn out after 2 laps and I thought RH can't be that bad? Apparently I put RS on my rear tyres accidentally, so I'm gonna do it again tomorrow
 
I am gearing up for this race right now. Im thinking about running my Scirocco built to the GT24 specs that I could find. On race hards, I can lap in 8'53s, but dont know about tire wear. It seems almost too much for the race. Any thoughts?

That's not too much for the LMS or GT1 Turbo. That's right in the ballpark of what I was running and my win margin was only 13 seconds over the LMS. And... I was driving defensively and not letting the LMS pass me. If I hadn't done that I would not have won.

In your heavier car with race hard tires you may find the GT1 (non turbo) will be a tough fight.
 
Does anyone fancy making a pair of small (line of text-height) icons - "Pre-2.02" and "Post-2.02" - preferably different colours (say... primary ones)? I'll add them to each race in the first post to give us better benchmarking.
 
That's not too much for the LMS or GT1 Turbo. That's right in the ballpark of what I was running and my win margin was only 13 seconds over the LMS. And... I was driving defensively and not letting the LMS pass me. If I hadn't done that I would not have won.

In your heavier car with race hard tires you may find the GT1 (non turbo) will be a tough fight.

Its 1170kg. I havent run any tests with tire wear on, so I have no idea as of yet how far I can go on tires. Pretty sure the car can do it, but my driving on the other hand, will probably let it down.
 
Does anyone fancy making a pair of small (line of text-height) icons - "Pre-2.02" and "Post-2.02" - preferably different colours (say... primary ones)? I'll add them to each race in the first post to give us better benchmarking.

Something like this?

preicon.gif


posticon.gif
 
Something like this?

preicon.gif


posticon.gif

Oooooo fancy.

I completely forgot that the new tyre wear system will make much of the current data irrelevant in regards to pit stops and overall race laps.

I wonder if it's now possible to contend in a lower power, light weight car running RS and hope for the win on pit strategy. I feel a test run coming on......should I ever finish updating to 2.02. :(
 
Oooooo fancy.

I completely forgot that the new tyre wear system will make much of the current data irrelevant in regards to pit stops and overall race laps.

I wonder if it's now possible to contend in a lower power, light weight car running RS and hope for the win on pit strategy. I feel a test run coming on......should I ever finish updating to 2.02. :(

I accidentally put RS on my rear tyres on a BMW GTR Race Car and it doesn't last full laps, so I guess no more RS 👍
 
Just ran some testing with the Scirocco R I plan on entering one of these days. RHs were good for 2 and a half laps with it. Went through 30 liters in those 3 laps. I can only hope that the AI cant go long on theirs now. Looks like I might have a shot if I can do 2 qualifying laps every stint.
 
Just ran some testing with the Scirocco R I plan on entering one of these days. RHs were good for 2 and a half laps with it. Went through 30 liters in those 3 laps. I can only hope that the AI cant go long on theirs now. Looks like I might have a shot if I can do 2 qualifying laps every stint.


A 2 lap stint on RM´s is quite enough if you can keep up with the 2 Frontrunners ( GT 1 and FT565 ).
You shouldn´t have more than 10 seconds deficit after the 1st lap and not more than 17 seconds after the 2nd lap.

Inlap around 9:07 and Outlap not more than 9:30.

Had a testrun recently with a 450 PP car on RM´s.Was on par with the GT1 after 9 laps (we were 1st and 2nd).If I hadn´t made a lot of mistakes on previous laps (cost approx 20 secs in the 9laps) , I had a comfortable lead.


raVer
 
So, in theory, my 500pp Scirocco on RHs is around the 8'53 range over the inlap. Really, I am only concerned with how much time I will lose by making 12-13 pit stops over the 4 hours.
 
So, in theory, my 500pp Scirocco on RHs is around the 8'53 range over the inlap. Really, I am only concerned with how much time I will lose by making 12-13 pit stops over the 4 hours.


8:53 is nearly overkill :).
If you do a 2 lap stint with a 8:53 in and maybe a 9:25 outlap , you would be far ahead at the half of the race. ;)



raVer
 
Hi!
I finally got around to doing this event with the GT-86 and the new tyre wear system (v2.02). I did a couple of test runs and found the best challenge would be with the following setup:

Car:
Toyota 86 GT '12 (Orange Metallic/Original Wheels)

Stats: (Before/After)
BHP: 341/324
Kg: 1131
PP: 499/491
Km: 303/935

GT Auto:
Oil change
Aero Parts: Type A (Front/Rear/Wing)

Tuning Shop:
Chassis Weight Reduction Stage 2
Engine Tuning Stage 2
Sports ECU
Sports Intake Manifold
Sports Air Filter
Titanium Semi-Racing Exhaust
Sports Exhaust Manifold
Catalytic Converter: Sports
Single Plate Clutch
Sports Flywheel
Height Adjustable Sports Kit Suspension
Sports Soft Tyres

Settings: (I only changed these, everything else left untouched)
Downforce: 0/20
Ride Height: -5/-5
Spring Rate: 10.5/3.5
Dampers: 3/3

Opponents:
BNR34 VSpec
FT565
S2000 GT1
400R
R32
CT230R
GT-R R-Tune (R34)
Z Z-Tune (Z33)
BNR34
Gran Turismo GT-R
380RS Super Leggera

Pit Strategy: 4-4-4-4-3-3
Fuel Strategy: 30-30-30-30-20-20


The Race:
(Lap #: Position / Time / Gap)

L1: 4th / 9:13 / -7.7
L2: 3th / 9:03 / -8.7
L3: 2nd / 9:08 / -8.8
L4: 4th / 9:18 / -3.0
L5: 2nd / 9:36 / -4.9
L6: 1st / 9:04 / +20.2
L7: 1st / 9.08 / +20.6
L8: 1st / 9.18 / +25.0
L9: 1st / 9.38 / +0.0
L10: 1st / 9:04 / +29.4
L11: 1st / 9:12 / +11.6
L12: 1st / 9:19 / +6.5
L13: 1st / 9:42 / +0.0
L14: 2nd / 9:04 / -0.0
L15: 1st / 9:17 / +9.7
L16: 1st / 9:23 / +20.8
L17: 2nd / 9:38 / -22.6
L18: 1st / 9:07 / +15.0
L19: 1st / 9:14 / +4.1
L20: 2nd / 9:20 / -11.9
L21: 1st / 9:31 / +31.4
L22: 2nd / 9:07 / +0.1
L23: 2nd / 9:14 / +1.2
L24: 1st / 9:30 / +18.7
L25: 1st / 9:04 / +11.7
L26: 1st / 9:10 / +0.1

The GT-86 is a pretty decent car. A bit weak in stock condition, but easily improvable while keeping superior handling. As expected, the strongest opponent was the S2000 GT1, which was at least 5 seconds faster than me on fresh rubber (fastest laps: GT86: 9:03 / GT1: 8:58).
This was a clean race with very consistent driving. I didn't make any major mistakes and I may have lost a maximum of 10 seconds in small mistakes in the whole race. In the first third of the race I did continuous progress and even stayed in first place for some laps. Then, the effect of the oil change began wearing off and lap times declined somewhat.
The second half of the race was very interesting, lots of changes in the lead and the race was never decided until the last seconds. Even though the GT1 was clearly faster than me I never blocked him intentionally.
The last lap was amazing! I knew he was going to catch me at some point and that's what happened. I drafted the long stretch and made a crazy dive to overtake the GT1 on the last corners without any contact between the cars. In the end I did have to protect my position on the very last meters and win by the smallest margin.
I encourage everyone to try completing this race with this car and setup. You won't be disappointed!



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I took a swing at it with the Motorsports Elise, bone stock. I spent the whole time catching the rear end. It was quick enough to win but I wasn't enjoying the drive.
 
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