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So nobody still doesnt know if the way the fuel runs out is just based on distance traveled or how hard or easy u drive push the car.and i imagine fuel doesnt efffect the weight of the physics either.
Fuel
- Thread starter Sleek Stratos
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Actually, I would have to disagree with you on that one. If you have ever watched the Top Gear episode where Jeremy Clarkson tries (and succeeds) to break the 10 minute mark around the 'Ring in a Jaguar diesel, you will understand why I say thisthe Interceptor
Diesels are great for every day driving, however, what they are not great for is racing. In racing, you spend most of your time in the high-rpm range, exactly where diesels do not make their peak power and torque. Diesels generate their peak power at very low rpm in comparison to gasoline engines, and despite having more power than the 120i, the 120d really isn't suited for the characteristics of racing.
Diesel engines will lose their power dramatically after the midrange rpm band (where they make their peak power), whereas gasoline engines usually make their peak power at an rpm range which is higher than that of a diesel. This really doesn't suit well for a racing application, where you want power to be still relatively accessible in the higher rpm range, so you can take advantage of the power when you shift into a higher gear. Let's say a diesel engine makes its peak power at 2,200 rpm, and you shift into the next gear at around 6,000 rpm (diesels generally do not have a very high rpm range). The point at which the engine will engage the next gear will be, let's say, around 3,500-4,000 rpm. This is not ideal, since all of that torque the diesel engine makes is at 2,200 rpm, you are out of the power band, and are not optimising the use of gear changes or the engine itself.
Now take a gasoline engine, which makes its peak power at, let's say, 6,500 rpm, and has a max rpm limit of 8,000 rpm. When you shift into the next gear at max rpm while you're racing, you will engage the next gear at around 5,000-5,500 rpm, coming right into the heart of that engines optimal powerband, so that you can take advantage of the gearing, and more importantly, use the power of that engine more effectively (ie. using its full potential).
You can now see why a diesel isn't exactly optimal for racing, but of course it is great for driving on the road
- 587
Majarvis
I would disagree with you somewhat, since you can always choose to shift at the optimal shift point for the car you're in. My STi runs out of air before I get to redline, so I set my shift point in the 6500-6800 range. I don't take it to redline because I accelerate slower than I would if I shifted into the next gear sooner. You can do the same thing with a diesel, and shift at the 3500 rpm point, so that you are always in the powerband.
the Interceptor
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@ Majarvis:
To make it short: I drive a Diesel in real life, so I know that they are no racing engines even if they are quick. And I do have the BMW demo, therefor I sassily suppose you don't, cause if you had played it you'd have noticed, just like I did, that the 120d is quicker on the track than the 120i.
Besides that, I generally agree that Diesels don't suit racing very well, although there are (few) very successful racing Diesels. Oh, and I watched that Top Gear episode as well - a good one. 👍
Cheers,
the Interceptor
To make it short: I drive a Diesel in real life, so I know that they are no racing engines even if they are quick. And I do have the BMW demo, therefor I sassily suppose you don't, cause if you had played it you'd have noticed, just like I did, that the 120d is quicker on the track than the 120i.
Besides that, I generally agree that Diesels don't suit racing very well, although there are (few) very successful racing Diesels. Oh, and I watched that Top Gear episode as well - a good one.
👍Cheers,
the Interceptor
the Interceptor
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- theInterceptor77
Kind of true, but not a problem really. Let's say a Diesel has its power band from 1500 - 3500 revs. If you shift at 3500, you'll get to 1500-2000 revs in the next gear. So actually, you can use a diesel like a gasoline engine, just that the usable rev band is a few rpms lower.ExigeExcel
Yes, but if you chose to shift at (lets use my example) 2,300 rpm *100 rpm above maximum power* you would bog/stall the engine, since when you shift into the next gear, it would be very low in the rpm range. Not to mention you wouldn't be taking advantage of the gearing available, and you would "run out of steam" in the top gear.Minnesota01R6
the Interceptor
so true. In real life, I test-drove both the 120i and the 120d.
The 120d starts to give loads of torque at about 1800 - 1900 rpm, and pulls trough to let's say 4000 - 4100 rpm, that's where the power stops. When shifting at about 4000rpm you drop back at around 2300 - 2600 rpm (depending the gear you are in and you're selecting next) so you don't really feel a lack of rpm's, since the power is all there.
The 120i though, has his power at about 4000rpm to , lets say, 6500 rpm. It's the same for shifting if you wanna go hard : go to the 6500 rpm-zone, shift up... and then there is something like a hole.. You're missing quite a lot of torque, compared to the diesel I drove first.
Two things : Gasoline engines always sound better & diesel engines are more economical.
But as you see, you can have a really good diesel-engine that provides you some fast driving-fun.
the Interceptor
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Ok, but your assumpion implies that there is no power if you get over 2200 rpm. 2200 rpm may be the point of maximum power, but that doesn't mean there's no power around 2200 rpm. Like I said, I do drive a diesel, the limit is 5000 rpm, it's usable up to 4000. So I can use the power from 1500 up to 4000 which is enough to get through all the gears very well. Like minnesota said, you can be quick in a Diesel if you know how you have to use a Diesel engine.Majarvis
@ Timothy:
Cheers,
the Interceptor
120d's 0-62mph is 7.9 seconds
120i's 0-62mph is 8.7 seconds
I have looked up 3 sources and all said the same thing.
But its unfair to compare the two since the 120d is turbo'd and the 120i is N/A. In other words slap a turbo on the 120i and it'd walk all over the 120d.
Diesels aren't made for racing, sorry guys...
120i's 0-62mph is 8.7 seconds
I have looked up 3 sources and all said the same thing.
But its unfair to compare the two since the 120d is turbo'd and the 120i is N/A. In other words slap a turbo on the 120i and it'd walk all over the 120d.
Diesels aren't made for racing, sorry guys...
- 4,394
I am SO ******* PISSED right now!!!!!!!!!!
I just did the 150 miles on super speedway with my Jaguar lemans car. I was winning with over 1/2 a lap over the Nissan R92CP.
I first pitted at lap 34, then lap 68, so that the last leg of the race my tires wouldn't be as worn.
Well I'm on lap 100/100 and all of a sudden the car ******* BRAKES to 50mph and stays there. I look at my fuel and it is empty. That is mathematically impossible and completely unrealistic.
Then I remember when I pitted on lap 68 that when the tires were all on, it stopped putting fuel in and it let out at about 74/80, I didn't even think twice because I didn't think it would matter and I forgot about it.
WHY did it do that? I know it happens in real races but son of a ***** the game should have an option for me to let all the fuel go in......I never saw one! If there is one can anybody show me how to put all the fuel in?
Even if we negate the idiocy of the absence of letting me control the amount of fuel that goes into my car, the way the car ran out of gas was EXTREMALY unrealistic for 'the real driving simulator.' I still would have WON if the car coasted from 200mph to zero like it SHOULD HAVE - INSTEAD - it freaking put on the brakes! Why? That is the single worst aspect of this game.
I just did the 150 miles on super speedway with my Jaguar lemans car. I was winning with over 1/2 a lap over the Nissan R92CP.
I first pitted at lap 34, then lap 68, so that the last leg of the race my tires wouldn't be as worn.
Well I'm on lap 100/100 and all of a sudden the car ******* BRAKES to 50mph and stays there. I look at my fuel and it is empty. That is mathematically impossible and completely unrealistic.
Then I remember when I pitted on lap 68 that when the tires were all on, it stopped putting fuel in and it let out at about 74/80, I didn't even think twice because I didn't think it would matter and I forgot about it.
WHY did it do that? I know it happens in real races but son of a ***** the game should have an option for me to let all the fuel go in......I never saw one! If there is one can anybody show me how to put all the fuel in?
Even if we negate the idiocy of the absence of letting me control the amount of fuel that goes into my car, the way the car ran out of gas was EXTREMALY unrealistic for 'the real driving simulator.' I still would have WON if the car coasted from 200mph to zero like it SHOULD HAVE - INSTEAD - it freaking put on the brakes! Why? That is the single worst aspect of this game.
- 198
diesels have to have turbos so that when they get into higher revs they still have power because almost all the power that diesel creates has gone at around 4000 rpm(rough estimate) i think that fuel is a good idea aslong as you have the choice to switch it on or off
no way was i going to read this whole thread, i just saw it was the most active one relating to fuel, so sorry if this has already been answered
everyone who has ever even HEARD of Formula 1 knows that fuel strategy is crucial. the biggest question at the beginning of the day is "who's running with the most fuel"
now in a lot of these short races i'll only use 2-3 bars of fuel... is there a way so that i can start with half a tank or so instead of a full tank in order to reduce weight? i've been looking all around in the game but cant find anything like that
everyone who has ever even HEARD of Formula 1 knows that fuel strategy is crucial. the biggest question at the beginning of the day is "who's running with the most fuel"
now in a lot of these short races i'll only use 2-3 bars of fuel... is there a way so that i can start with half a tank or so instead of a full tank in order to reduce weight? i've been looking all around in the game but cant find anything like that
- 1,128
well sinse it's already been bumped (sory cant resist)...
The wrx is a 2 liter, the Z06 in question is (probably) a 5.7 liter.
The engines in the BMW 120i and 120d are both the same size, so yes, one having a turbo is an advantage. flip flop the hp and torque figures of the 120d and that'd probably be about right for a turbo version of the engine in the 120i.
- 142
Bump!
Okay I love the BMW 120d! Its fun, small car to drive and with a few upgrades pretty darn fast.
I tried to test the fuel theory during the 'Ring 24 but B Spec stops for fuel too often. The reality is I can go at least 8-10 laps before I need to stop for fuel but I need to find a shorter race so I can see if I can really leg out a difference.
Okay I love the BMW 120d! Its fun, small car to drive and with a few upgrades pretty darn fast.
I tried to test the fuel theory during the 'Ring 24 but B Spec stops for fuel too often. The reality is I can go at least 8-10 laps before I need to stop for fuel but I need to find a shorter race so I can see if I can really leg out a difference.
- 2,587
Fuel consumption on Nurburgring 24 hours makes sense to test, and for B-spec too stop to often makes sense, Nurburgring Nordschleife is a 20.8 kilometer track, which translates to 12.92547 miles long. An average speed on the track would most likely be 70 miles an hour throughout turns and around 120-160 through straights. Most cars are not built to take such speeds at a constant. The fuel consumption at higher speeds makes sense in real life, although I'm not sure if they did put that into practice on GT4. In real life an average car gets about 20 miles per gallon at highway speeds I.E. 70 miles an hour. However at higher speeds, fuel consumption changes to around 10-15 mpg depending on the car. An average car will also have a 20 gallon tank equipped. So B-spec stopping to pit every couple laps would make sense. Bottom Line B-spec'ing Nurburgring and having the car pit every couple laps makes sense. Also, your B-spec driver isnt just stopping to get fuel, He's stopping to get new tires. The extra fuel, is just for good measure.
And if you're looking to compare tracks, go do a track meet on Motorland for a couple hours. Then do a track meet on Nurburgring for the same amount of time. The differences will be noticable.
Woo that took forever.
Has anyone ever done a test where they run laps shifting early, keeping the revs down, and compared it to an otherwise identical session where they run it into the red line? Or maybe two tests comparing half throttle to full throttle runs? Elementary stuff, and it would show whether it's based on anything other than displacement and distance traveled.
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- GTP_ty00123
I'm currently running the Le Sarthe 24h, using a Mazda 787B. I had noticed that when I shifted right when the "redline" light came on (about 500 rpm past the tachometer's redline), I would run out of fuel about 1/4 mile from the pit entry after 9 laps. When I shifted on the tachometer's redline or just before it, I noticed that i could pull into the pits with 1-2 units left. So no, it's not based exclusively on displacement/distance traveled.
