General Discussion

[Dotini]

Thanks for asking about that, tizocspeed8.

The only races I have not attempted in A-spec are Sarthe I and Sarthe II, although I am well prepared with a Pescarolo-Judd (http://www.gtvault.com/gt4/setup-view/s_sid::7385/Pescarolo-PlayStation-C60-Judd-Race-Car/) when the mood strikes. Recently I have been preoccupied not only with my major passion, real world kart racing, but also a few other more mundane issues around the house and garden. So my GT4 kit has been put away for quite a spell now and is likely to remain that way until karting season is over. Please don't look for me to make a run at the A-spec point maximum. I really haven't the skill of many of our younger members here at GTPlanet, although I must admit to a great love and respect for this game because it's so great for the old eye-hand coordination and very fun for this old motorsports freak.

Thanks again for asking. How are your own tally and ambitions working out?

 

[GTsail]

What races do you still have left Dotini?

And how much points do you have Gtsail?

I now have 103,830 A-spec points. They have started to become harder to get, since I have very few races where I have no points (nine, I checked). The races that I have left are ones that I have already won for 75 to 125 points, so I just need to go back and pick up the remainder. GTsail290

...I will put another 5000 miles on the car before giving up and buying another car. I will let you know how it turns out.

GTsail290

I gave up!! I put another 5500 miles on my Megane and it still has 126HP at the garage screen (and will only give me 166 points in the OM Race). My Megane now has 27,500 miles on the odometer.

I have gone back to the dealer and purchased another Megane. I ran it for 14,000 miles on the Test Track (while watching LeMans,congrats to Peugeot)(I first installed the Stage 3 turbo), and it now has 125HP at the garage screen (123HP at the sell screen). I took it to the Megane Cup and was able to get my coveted 169 A-spec points!!

I don't know what the story is. The only thing significantly different between how I wore out the Megane's was that on the first one I used the NA upgrades, while on the second one I used the turbo upgrade.

Perhaps my first Megane had a hand-built engine with all the titanium parts!

I will eventually go back to the first Megane and install the Stage 3 turbo and run it for some more miles at the Test track to see if its possible to wear out. Right now B-spec Bob will not get back into that car. He told me that he wore out all his CD's so he has nothing to listen to as he goes round and round (I don't know if I can believe him, I think he might have intentionally lost them).

GTsail290

 

[tizocspeed8]

Thanks again for asking. How are your own tally and ambitions working out?

I've done most of the races for maximum, I still have 10 events left to max:

Super Speedway 150 Miles
Roadster 4hr
Copen race - Motorland reverse
Saleen S7 Club - Suzuka Circuit
SL Challenge - Apricot Hill
Suzuki Concepts - Seattle Circuit
Suzuki Concepts - Tsukuba Circuit
Hyundai Sports festival - Autumn Ring, Tsukuba Circuit
1000 Miles - Nurburgring

In some of those events I have a couple of points, but the 1000 Miles! and Roadster races are still at zero. I haven't yet attempted those, as i expect them to be very difficult. I'm currently at 110 595 points. Earlier I did Super Speedway for 120 points. My first points in about four months. I haven't played over the past couple of months, since my studies have kept me very busy. I'm on a break now, so hopefully I can get those last couple of points needed for maximum before I have to go back. I plan to finish the Saleen S7 next, which currently sits at 134 points. I should've finished it by now, on four or five occasions I was in the lead on the third lap. Somehow, the AI just seems to get a lot stronger on the last lap, and they keep knocking me into the sand to take the victory! I should complete it by this week though.

Have you done 1000 Miles! yet? Oh, and I don't think I've credited you for this before, but thanks for the Civic setup! It worked wonders for the Civic race which i had long struggled with.

I now have 103,830 A-spec points. They have started to become harder to get, since I have very few races where I have no points (maybe three). The races that I have left are ones that I have already won for 75 to 125 points, so I just need to go back and pick up the remainder. GTsail290

Good luck with the remaining points, they are the hardest to get! Have you done FGT yet? 1000 Miles? and how many endurances do you still need to do?


I'll take the chance to also extend my congratulations to Peugeot. It's good for LeMans that a team other than Audi is winning, it keeps the competition alive. And it was won by a French team! Excellent performance. I'm reminded of my LeMans win with the Peugeot 905 for max A-Spec earlier this year, lol. Hopefully the 908 will somehow make it on to GT5. One can only hope.

 

[Dotini]

tizocspeed8, congratulations on your points total and the very small number of races you have remaining to max out.

To answer your question about my 1000 Miles!, I have maxed it out except for the Nurburgring, where I'm standing with 179/200 with a BLRA-3 (http://www.gtvault.com/gt4/setup-view/s_sid::6725/Nissan-Skyline-Sport-Coupe-(BLRA-3)/). It's a lovely event, and I will be delighted to consummate this one later in the year.

Thanks for your citation of my Civic setup for being of some help to you. It gives me a pleasurable feeling to help a fellow human to defeat the computer AI. I suppose that makes me really a closet Luddite at heart.

 

[GTsail]

... Good luck with the remaining points, they are the hardest to get! Have you done FGT yet? 1000 Miles? and how many endurances do you still need to do?...

Tizocspeed8 - Congrats on your A-spec point total so far!

Its quite an achievement. Good luck on the rest. If I can get to 110k like you I would be completely satisfied. For me, the max is probably out of reach, but I think I might be able to get to 107 or 108k, and maybe even 109k but it will take a while.

I have previously won all Formula GT races, however, only one of them was for the maximum A-spec points. I have won five others for about 75 points and the rest for none since I let B-spec Bob take over the races once I was ahead by a comfortable margin. These nine races are the only races for which I have no A-spec points.

I have won all the Endurance races in A-spec mode, however, for about half of these I won them with a car equal to the competition, so I have only received 60 to 80 A-spec points. So for about half of the Endurance races I need to go back and win them with a de-tuned car.

At the 1000 miles, I have only a few points. I ran the races quite a while ago. I ran two of the races with my 1969 Camaro, and the other two with my AC Cars 427, which I think only gave me 10 points!

So overall, I have quite a few more races to go, but I still enjoy the quest. I might even go back to the Test Track with my Megane! NOT!

GTsail290

 

[tizocspeed8]

Until yesterday, I'd felt invincible. I did (difficult races I think) Hyundai Autumn Ring & Tsukuba, Suzuki Tsukuba, Saleens at Suzuka, Copens at Motorland and 1000 Miles! Nurb, in this past week. I even shocked myself, because until 14 June i hadn't played GT in four months, and i thought it'd take a week or two for me to get back into A-Spec mode. But yesterday, the feeling of invincibility left me. I came across the dreaded "Roadster 4 hour Endurance". After a couple of tries I immediatley knew this wasn't gonna be as 'easy' as 1000 Miles Nurb.

I plan to practice Roadster Endurance all weekend, with hope of completing sometime in the next couple of weeks. I'm at 111 613 now. This is my last race for maximum, and is still at zero A-spec points.


Thanks to:

Austin343 for the Suzuki Concepts at Tsukuba video
and
AMG for his Super Speedway 150 Miles strategy.

 

[GTsail]

...I plan to practice Roadster Endurance all weekend, with hope of completing sometime in the next couple of weeks. I'm at 111 613 now. This is my last race for maximum, and is still at zero A-spec points...

WOW! So close!

I look forward to seeing the "813"

GTsail290

 

[Austin343]

That's amazing, tizoc. 👍 The impression I get is that you breezed through all of these notoriously hard races without much trouble. Was it really that easy for you? If so, then you deserve a . I'm a better GT4 player now than I was a year ago, when I did these one-make races, but I still found some of them (really only the Hyundais, though) very hard and needed a couple hours of playing time to figure out the correct corner-cutting and AI-bashing strategy for each one. If you're good enough to win these races without too much of a contest, then you're definitely good enough to win the Roadster race. 👍

 

[AMG.]

Impressive feat Tizoc. 👍. I hope to be updating post 222 soon
Thx fot the '150SS thanks'.

AMG.

 

[tizocspeed8]

That's amazing, tizoc. The impression I get is that you breezed through all of these notoriously hard races without much trouble. Was it really that easy for you? If so, then you deserve a . I'm a better GT4 player now than I was a year ago, when I did these one-make races, but I still found some of them (really only the Hyundais, though) very hard and needed a couple hours of playing time to figure out the correct corner-cutting and AI-bashing strategy for each one.

I did the Copens and two Hyundai races on Wednesday night. The Copens took about two hours, Hyundai at Autumn took about 2 hours as well and Hyundai Tsukuba took me about half an hour. I guess doing the race in Suzuki Concepts prepared me for it. Only hard thing was getting used to N1 tires. Merc SL Challenge I did on my first try. I couldn't beleive my luck. Nurb 1000 Miles! wasn't too difficult. I searched for an average lineup with no slow cars and blocked out the competition. I may do these races again some day, they were quite fun when I drove perfectly Roadster will not be so easy or so fun though. I expect to work very hard for my last 200 points

 

[Austin343]

Whew! It's good to know you're at least human. Still, not being totally confounded by these races after such a long break is quite an achievement. Good luck with this last 200. 👍

 

[GTsail]

I did the Copens and two Hyundai races on Wednesday night. The Copens took about two hours, Hyundai at Autumn took about 2 hours as well and Hyundai Tsukuba took me about half an hour...

Nice work Tizocspeed8!

I am impressed. I am afraid that you are a better driver than me. I recently spent two hours in my nearly worn out Copen and was only able to garner 147 A-spec points in the Copen One Make Races (not the 166 points on offer). I can win on N2/N3 tires, but when I switch to N1/N3 tires I can only win at Tsukuba (Motorland and Autumn Ring Mini are beyond me).

Having to layout for all to see (in response to your question just above) that I have nine races with no A-spec points is embarrassing.

So over the weekend I took my Minolta Toyota 88CV Race Car to Infineon in the Formula GT Series and won 139 A-spec points (a close race since I am somewhat rusty in full blown race cars, even if I can kick butt in my 14HP Subaru 360). And then since LeMans was the prior weekend, I took my Black Mazda 787B to Le Sarthe in the FGT Series and won 200 A-spec points. Yeah! Now I have only seven races with no A-spec points, and I feel much better!!

Winning the above Copen races (even at my lowly skill level) and crushing the opposition in my Subaru 360, plus the FGT wins has pushed my A-spec points total over 105,000.

By the way - When I was checking my spreadsheet last night to see which races I have remaining to do, I noticed that my spreadsheet has 68 more points than the Game's status screen on my TV (and since you can't believe everything you see on TV, I am sure my spreadsheet has the correct number). So this means that when/if I get to the maximum, I will have 111,881 A-spec points! Eat your hearts out! Perhaps we will hear from Route_66 once I pass his points total.

Edit: I just ran my Nissan Motul Pitwork Z at Nurburgring in the Real Circuit Tours Series for 200 points and it coughed up the missing 68 points , . I guess I won't have a cushion on the way to the max!

GTsail290

 

[Open Addict]

GTsail290

Just be thankful you didn't have to check 75% of the game to find your missing points.

Edit: On the copen races, I too found them dificult until I found some great settings. trails off to find.

try these

 

[GTsail]

GTsail290

... On the copen races, I too found them dificult until I found some great settings. trails off to find.

try these

Thanks Open Addict for the suggested suspension setups.

I will probably give the Copen's another try this weekend. As you know, getting the Copen's to turn on N1 tires is tough.

Right now, B-spec Bob is wearing down my Lotus Elan at the Test Track in anticipation of some easy points in the Lotus Classic One Make Races. I should be able to pick up another 375 points there.

GTsail290

 

[tizocspeed8]

I also had the same problem, gt sail. At one time, my spreadsheet total was also different from game total. But eventually they became equal to each other. You may or may not be in the same situation

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I now have 103,830 A-spec points. They have started to become harder to get, since I have very few races where I have no points (nine, I checked). The races that I have left are ones that I have already won for 75 to 125 points, so I just need to go back and pick up the remainder. GTsail290



I gave up!! I put another 5500 miles on my Megane and it still has 126HP at the garage screen (and will only give me 166 points in the OM Race). My Megane now has 27,500 miles on the odometer.

I have gone back to the dealer and purchased another Megane. I ran it for 14,000 miles on the Test Track (while watching LeMans,congrats to Peugeot)(I first installed the Stage 3 turbo), and it now has 125HP at the garage screen (123HP at the sell screen). I took it to the Megane Cup and was able to get my coveted 169 A-spec points!!

I don't know what the story is. The only thing significantly different between how I wore out the Megane's was that on the first one I used the NA upgrades, while on the second one I used the turbo upgrade.

Perhaps my first Megane had a hand-built engine with all the titanium parts!

I will eventually go back to the first Megane and install the Stage 3 turbo and run it for some more miles at the Test track to see if its possible to wear out. Right now B-spec Bob will not get back into that car. He told me that he wore out all his CD's so he has nothing to listen to as he goes round and round (I don't know if I can believe him, I think he might have intentionally lost them).

GTsail290

Sorry, I just saw your post about your problem with the Megane.
Glad to see you overcame. I didn't have a problem "wearing down" any other car but the Copen. However some took longer than others. I don't recall any taking more than about 12,000 and usually the standard 9,000 or less.

 

[AMG.]

@ RaidoGT,

With the exception of the stock car thread that has its own set of rules the 200 race subforum was put together to assist those that want to obtain one or two goals; reach 100K points or maximum. How this is achieved is up to each player.
There are no rules whatsoever other than obtaining 200 points. Not everyone is a Schumi and will therefore in some races need to resort to dirty tactics to get those 200 points. I am pretty sure that all of those that have managed to realise either goal or are working on it are clean drivers. I don’t have “gentleman driver” in my sig for nothing. I have raced online and face to face with the best on GTP and they can attest to that.

Most of the A-spec nutters as I prefer to call them, would I am quite sure prefer to obtain 200 points cleanly. They’ve been at it since 2005. Some prefer to obtain as much as possible to do it without the use of NOS. Some prefer to do it using a different car for each race. Unfortunately GT4 is not a perfect game and to reach our goal(s) mentioned earlier we sometimes need to apply dirty tactics. In some cases it is the only way to win 200 points. None of those nutters however have imposed their rules on others.

You are of the opinion that a win is only a win if it is clean. We respect that.
However in 7 out of 10 posts (so far) in this subforum you have been trying to enforce your views on us and have nothing to do with the the subject matter in which you posted them.

I have on two occasions asked you politely to refrain from these comments as they bear no relationship to the goals of these threads. I have also asked you in a polite way to read post #1.

Your first post

Only when you're kidding yourself. Wallriding to a "win" isn't a win at all. It's a DNF, plain and simple. Always.
Wins only count if they're completely clean. No wallriding. No spinning off. No kerbriding to cut corners. No help from any driving aids.
That's a win - a real one, an actual win. Anything else is just cheating yourself.

Could have been phrased somewhat more polite.

e.g. In my opinion Wallriding to a "win" isn't a win at all. It's a DNF, plain and simple ...
or
In my book Wins only count if they're completely clean ...

It leaves an opening for someone to respond without being pushed in to a corner and possibly even feel threatened. These kind of "mud throwing conversations" usually escalate and turn ugly. This forum prides itself on good spirits and camaraderie and doesn’t need this kind of behaviour. You’ve been here ....what, a total of three weeks and you’ve already managed to piss off more members than befriend them. Not a very good start.👎

If you want to continue to push your opinion..... fine, you are entitled but please create your own thread in the general GT4 section and discuss it there ad inifinitum.

AMG.

 

[RaidoGT]

How this is achieved is up to each player.
There are no rules whatsoever other than obtaining 200 points.

Yes there are.

Unwritten ones perhaps, but still. And you yourself will acknowledge them.

Or would you want to state that Notepadding yourself to 200+ points is allowed as well? Or using a PS2 cheat cartridge to turn the cars or the track walls into ghost objects, allowing you to run right through them?

Of course there are rules, even if they're so basic you don't need to write them down. Every game needs them or playing would be basically impossible; you wouldn't know what you'd need to do.
Now in games/sims like GT4, by and large we race on the honour system. On the Internet, after all, it's too easy to just falsify results. That can be done, but then getting a result would have no value (as I'm sure you would agree).

And so it is with this one. There is no value in cornercutting or wallriding yourself to a win, 200 points or otherwise. (That's not just coming from me; that's the concensus on just about all simracing forums.)

None of those nutters however have imposed their rules on others.

I'm not imposing anything on anyone. I'm just reminding some of the drivers here that wallriding and cornercutting ain't how you're supposed to win a race game.

If that's the only way to get to 1st place in some GT races, then that's basically the programmers' fault, not ours. But in such cases, the best maximum points result while playing it "for real" will have to do. Because the alternative would be faking it - and that's not the goal here, since we all would like to be known as the best *racers*, not the best fakers.

If you want to continue to push your opinion.....

What opinion?


Wallriding, corner-cutting or banging off your opponents isn't a win, it's a fact.


At least in a game that's supposed to depict real racing, where all that isn't allowed either (heck, it will get you DQ'd.)
Everybody who races knows that (even if some preferably wouldn't admit to it).

There's no problem about just having a go at GT4 at home and racing dirty for the heck of it; - why should there be? We should be able to go and bash those brainless AI about at our leisure.

However, *if you are going to announce a WIN in a public forum, even if it's this one*... (meaning *you* performed well at something, and announcing it means you can deservedly take the credit): It'd better be a real one. Because otherwise, sooner or later, *someone*, even if it's not me, will stand up and call you a cheater.

And that, too, is a fact. Good night.

 

[mafia_boy]

I can see both sides of the argument here and want to supply a little moderation to it but I am siding more with AMG on this issue.

RaidoGT, I know what you mean that getting a win means clean racing, but what about the times in Special Conditions where the AI hits you and you get the 5sec penalty?? Is that fair?? No. And it becomes a game of tit for tat, if the AI can do it to you, you can do it back.

Seperately, you are implying that people will as you put it "bang" the AI off the track. Now, let's look at racing in the real world. NASCAR, bumping and banging all the time. At places like Bristol you will not see ANY car out of that 43 car field without a dented panel. That's how racing is sometimes, biff and barge. Same with V8 Supercars here in Australia, there's a lot of contact between the competitors, and sometimes this results in a car spinning off. A lot of times this becomes a "racing incident" and only the victim is penalised because he ended up off the track as a result of the incident. GT4 can be played in the exact same way, a little bit of biff & barge NEVER hurt anyone and if you need to door rub, bump a bumper here and there then it's fine by me.

Then you complained about wallriding. Okay, let's go there now. Look at the WRC with some of the scandinavian rallies (Norway, Sweden) and even Monte Carlo where they are racing in the snow. The WRC drivers CONSTANTLY wallride and bang their back ends against the snow banks to get a better drive out of those corners. Sometimes it works and they come zooming out of the corner, others misjudge it and end up plowing through the snowbank. The best example of wallriding would be Tommi Makinen, he used to be able to do that to perfection in his Evo's and made a right mess of it one year in the Subaru. From your analogy, Tommi Makinen didn't "win" those rallies, but history has it that he did, and no offence to you, but your opinion doesn't mean squat when it's placed next to a history book. You'll be long and gone, and history will always tell of Makinen winning those rallies, for forever and a day.

Now, in saying that, if you ARE deliberately punting people (like hitting the car infront at 300km/h at a 50km/h corner) then yes, that is cheating like you say and we're all in agreement to a point with that style of driving being frowned upon. But to say ANY form of contact means you are a cheat, then no, you are very well mistaken.

 

[Open Addict]

Sorry, I just can't help myself.

....And so it is with this one. There is no value in cornercutting or wallriding yourself to a win, 200 points or otherwise. (That's not just coming from me; that's the concensus on just about all simracing forums.)

Not this 200 Point forum.

....What opinion?


Wallriding, corner-cutting or banging off your opponents isn't a win, it's a fact.


At least in a game that's supposed to depict real racing, where all that isn't allowed either (heck, it will get you DQ'd.)
Everybody who races knows that (even if some preferably wouldn't admit to it).

It is a win, and many "REAL LIFE RACER'S" will do this, and they HAVE become Champion's in their sport.

...However, *if you are going to announce a WIN in a public forum, even if it's this one*... (meaning *you* performed well at something, and announcing it means you can deservedly take the credit): It'd better be a real one. Because otherwise, sooner or later, *someone*, even if it's not me, will stand up and call you a cheater.

And that, too, is a fact. Good night.

It is not a fact that majority of the A-spec collector's are cheaters, we have learnt to bend the rules. Just like REAL LIFE RACERS. And if you don't like how the majority of the A-Spec enthusists like to collect their points, then maybe this forum is not for you.

Night.

 

[shepzki]

Wallriding, ramming AI, cutting corners, to me this is not cheating at all. It is simply playing the game within the boundries of the game, albeit stretching them a little but still within the confines of what the game will allow. Cheating is IMO getting your Codebreaker out and turning off the AI to win/get 200pts or any other way of artificially increasing your standing in the game.

 

[Dotini]

nemesis01 makes an intelligent and suggestive point, i.e., that the game quite obviously allows what we might call "advanced video gaming techniques". Indeed, I might go so far as to suggest that the game subtly invites such tactics.

For instance, at R246 on the Shuto Ko Expressway, there is what looks like a large white gift-wrapped package, figuratively a "gift", sitting just outside the outer fence which is strategically placed just at the point where a "wallride" might be successfully initiated. True students of the game may point out other such "anomalies", or visual cues, which IMHO exist in profusion. If this sort of cue only happened once, we could write it off as happenstance. Twice could be merely coincidence. More than that and it's deliberate action.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Wallriding, ramming AI, cutting corners, to me this is not cheating at all. It is simply playing the game within the boundries of the game, albeit stretching them a little but still within the confines of what the game will allow. Cheating is IMO getting your Codebreaker out and turning off the AI to win/get 200pts or any other way of artificially increasing your standing in the game.

nemesis01 makes an intelligent and suggestive point, i.e., that the game quite obviously allows what we might call "advanced video gaming techniques". Indeed, I might go so far as to suggest that the game subtly invites such tactics.

For instance, at R246 on the Shuto Ko Expressway, there is what looks like a large white gift-wrapped package, figuratively a "gift", sitting just outside the outer fence which is strategically placed just at the point where a "wallride" might be successfully initiated. True students of the game may point out other such "anomalies", or visual cues, which IMHO exist in profusion. If this sort of cue only happened once, we could write it off as happenstance. Twice could be merely coincidence. More than that and it's deliberate action.

Well said by all.

I think it's pretty obvious, at least to me, that the "find a way to win" prospect of the Max. A spec point feature, unorthodox as it maybe, is part of the intented challenge of it.

IMHO it adds tremendous additional scope to the game, and in my case a wealth of additional game play.

 

[GTsail]

I would like to contribute my opinion in response to RaidoGT's comments.

I think that RaidoGT has missed the overall point of this area of GTPlanet. Those of us who have caught the A-spec point "bug" from Route_66 (and others) are trying to reach the maximum A-spec point total that the game provides. Some of us (like myself) may never reach the maximum of 111813, but will try to get as close as our skills allow.

In my opinion, some of the very best drivers on GTPlanet (myself excluded) have entered this arena to test their skills against the game and compare themselves to the other skilled drivers. The more skilled drivers have an easier time at this quest and probably race as clean as suggested by RaidoGT. However, as one works your way thru the maximum point quest, it becomes apparent that a number of races are all but impossible unless "enhanced driving tactics" are employed. I think both Open Addict and SuperCobraJet have pointed out some of these races.

Since the goal of this quest is to achieve the maximum point total, then "enhanced driving tactics" are employed where possible and as necessary to achieve this goal. Some, like myself, may have to resort to using every tactic allowable by the game and then some to win the tough races (for example, I used the Holland Tunnel shortcut to win the New York race in my Mini One). While some of the better drivers may not employ any of these controversial tactics like wallriding, opponent bashing and chicane cutting.

If I win a race using these tactics, I do not say that I am as good a driver as someone who did not. I freely acknowledge that my skills are of lessor quality. However, don't tell me that my skills are so bad that I should just stay home. Some of the tough races like the Daihatsu Copen One Make at the Autumn Ring Mini, require tremendous driving skills even if "enhanced driving tactics" are employed. Perhaps if RaidoGT would try to win a couple of these tough races, he might acknowledge the driving skills necessary to win (no matter what tactics are employed).

Now in real life driving, some of these "enhanced driving tactics" would not work. But that is not the point, we are talking about GT4. In real life racing if a driver employed some of these tactics (like bumping the leader off the track to get by, or wallriding the armco) I would like to think that they would be penalized (especially since they would be so dangerous). However, especially in Nascar, you can get by with some of these tactics. Even so, I think less of a driver if these tactics are employed. Like AMG said, some drivers are more gentlemenly than others.

I think that the use of these tactics is not some pass/fail measure (as implied by RaidoGT) but a shade of gray, and an acknowledgement by the driver that one's skills are not adequate to win otherwise. If RaidoGT would read some of our race posts, he would see that we mention when we win a race cleanly versus when we could not. I can remember reading a post about someone doing a 24 hour endurance race completely clean (which is impressive since I normally cut a chicane here and there) which shows that we value clean racing and that it is a goal to which we strive but can not meet in all cases.

I remember a recent post of mine that was trying to help someone win races in the Supercar Festival. To test what I was going to say in my post, I took my Ford GT and easily won a couple of races without employing any "enhanced driving tactics". When I originally won this race some two years ago, I remember having a difficult time of it and having to wallride and bump a few cars (so obviously my driving skills have improved). I think we can agree that my more recent race win was "better", but hopefully we can also agree that while my first win shows lower driving skills, it was still a "win" (especially since the game gave me credit for it).

Remember, playing GT4 is about racing cars, and having fun while doing so. It is not about imposing the most rigid rules to racing, so that only one or two "alien" drivers could ever hope to win all the races.

Since it sounds like RaidoGT is a very good driver, it is my hope that his future posts will be about 200 point wins and how he achieved them (so others can follow in his footsteps, and if the wins are completely clean, then that additional degree of difficulty should and will be acknowledged) and not about how other people's wins don't count.

Respectfully,

GTsail290

 

[RaidoGT]

It is not a fact that majority of the A-spec collector's are cheaters, we have learnt to bend the rules. Just like REAL LIFE RACERS.

...Golly, if you're going to defend your point, at least try and pick a good one. 'Bending' the rules up to a point is one thing, but breaking them outright is another.

And in "Real life racing", as you say, deliberate corner-cutting or punting off other cars will get you DQ'd (unless you're lucky and/or unspotted); wallriding will get you DNF'd (in most cases in about 0.5 seconds, since your suspension and tyres won't last).

Last time I checked, Prost and Fangio didn't get their titles by cutting half their corners, banging off the lead drivers and wallriding to victory. You can bang shoulders in NASCAR or DTM a bit, but they won't allow much more "GT-bending" trickery either before the marshalls call you out.



@Mafiaboy: I agree, PD programmed rather stupidly in the area of 5 sec penalties - the AI should have gotten them too. But then, in terms of AI, the programmers at PD seem to have developed rather a bit of brain damage over the years (4 versions of GT and they still couldn't get it right).
And as said, a bit of bumper-banging in sports cars is fair game as well, although punting your opponent off outright (or abusing his rear end to brake for corners) is a different matter of course.
Agreed, too, that during snow rallies some wall-butting is used IRL... ..And as such it's by and large "the exception that confirms the rule", as we say over here (rally drivers won't do it deliberately when the walls *aren't* made of soft snow, since their cars would be wrecks quite soon). But that doesn't go for regular real-life asphalt racing, where whacking into a wall/rail full speed will both slow you down *and* break your car beyond repair within a corner or two.

It's just that GT4 doesn't incorporate damage, but abusing a technical flaw does not a great driver make (not even a great gamer!) - and of course it voids any results gained, since deliberate wallriding is simply not part of racing. (Heck, putting driver aids on isn't realistic either, so I never used them so far, but I do wish that using them would deliberately slow you down a lot, like in GPL - it's a much smarter system.)

Wallriding, ramming AI, cutting corners, to me this is not cheating at all.

Well, then you're simply wrong, since it is. For a racing game that's supposed to depict real racing, in any case. Can you bend the rules and get 200 points that way? Yes - but that's a *flaw* in the game code, not a bonus.
And are those drives valid, especially in terms of being a good drive? No, they simply aren't (I can wallride myself to all kinds of wins. But it wouldn't mean *zip*, even in GT4). That's noob/Mario Kart-style of driving anyway, and if you're playing a more realistic game like GT then I'm sure you can do better.

Indeed, I might go so far as to suggest that the game subtly invites such tactics.
For instance, at R246 on the Shuto Ko Expressway, there is what looks like a large white gift-wrapped package, figuratively a "gift", sitting just outside the outer fence which is strategically placed just at the point where a "wallride" might be successfully initiated.

Hm, I've been *on* the actual Shutoko and in the R246 vicinity, and let me assure you there are no such gifts there, so the programmers simply took rather big liberties here (Besides, it's in the area of the imperial palace and the Diet parliament, and that zone is generally swarming with cops and security cams.. so even if we tried we wouldn't get far. )
Seriously though, it doesn't really mean anything. Wallriding your way to a 1st place simply will never be a win, but it will get you 200 points in GT4 - and that's just a flaw in the game, just like the Dodge RAM 200pt bug.

 

[RaidoGT]

trying to reach the maximum A-spec point total that the game provides. Some of us (like myself) may never reach the maximum of 111813, but will try to get as close as our skills allow.

No, I did get the point. But the maximum points attainable isn't something that was a set goal in GT4 (it was never put as such in PD's documentation afaik); it was simply thought up afterwards, as a way to see what we'd get in total if we'd string all 200 points wins together.

But the 200 points system is flawed and highly inaccurate anyway (gives some veeeeery strange points awards in lots of places), so reaching 111k points doesn't result in accurate results either (unfortunately). And some races were clearly unattainable without resorting to dirty driving, which voids the results in any case; but more importantly, that again showed that PD's programmers weren't always playing attention - those races *should* be winnable by properly tuning the AI, but they didn't think enough of the A-spec points system to work them out for each and every race.


Basically, it's all about coding faults and flawed AI. Not our fault, but that's what makes a points total rather a vague and misty goal in GT4 in any case.

If RaidoGT would read some of our race posts, he would see that we mention when we win a race cleanly versus when we could not.

I did, but maintain that the max points in such cases is the max that can be achieved by an actual win; and that where the game allows 200pts wallride wins *or* makes it impossible to achieve clean wins, it's badly coded. GT4 is just not very good in some areas (in others it shines for a PS2 game though).

I can remember reading a post about someone doing a 24 hour endurance race completely clean (which is impressive since I normally cut a chicane here and there) which shows that we value clean racing

That *is* highly impressive indeed, if you can achieve that. Most 24h races would be largely B-specced (or relieved by co-drivers in real life) though.

Since it sounds like RaidoGT is a very good driver, it is my hope that his future posts will be about 200 point wins and how he achieved them (so others can follow in his footsteps,

I'm not that good. Don't get me wrong here, it's not like I think people here aren't good drivers just because they wallride now and then - from the look of things a lot of them may be *very* good. And I certainly wouldn't say I was a brilliant simrace driver either, since I'm not (I don't intend to drive all kinds of races in GT4 anyway - would mean too much time off from GPL).
I can win some 200 points races clean, sure, already did that, so I guess I'm not the worst; but that doesn't mean I'm claiming I can win the impossible ones whereas others cannot. I'm just pointing out that the game is technically flawed, that it can be abused, but that this does not a real win or a good driver make.

 

[shepzki]

Edit - NM.

 

[Dotini]

the 200 points system is flawed and highly inaccurate anyway (gives some veeeeery strange points awards in lots of places), so reaching 111k points doesn't result in accurate results either (unfortunately). And some races were clearly unattainable without resorting to dirty driving, which voids the results in any case; but more importantly, that again showed that PD's programmers weren't always playing attention - those races *should* be winnable by properly tuning the AI, but they didn't think enough of the A-spec points system to work them out for each and every race.

Basically, it's all about coding faults and flawed AI. Not our fault, but that's what makes a points total rather a vague and misty goal in GT4 in any case.

RadioGT makes the point(s) that the 200 point system is flawed, the coding and AI is flawed, that "wins" in GT4 are actually not wins unless done his way, and that, by implication, players doing it any way other than his are also flawed.

While not denying that there are flaws aplenty in us and our world, I'd like to suggest one additional flaw, i.e., that RadioGT is conflating fantasy with reality. The reality is that GT4 is a lovable video game that gives the charming illusion that there are cars racing and that you are driving one of them. It is also true that the points system gives a way to compare apples to apples so that players of the game can easily measure their respective achievements against each other and against the standards inherent in the game. But in no way at all is GT4 real racing or real driving.

I know a little something about real racing. I've been competing at the amateur level in sports cars and karts since 1967, and have numerous local championships and two at the national level. Real racing involves real danger, bruising G-forces, intense vibration, pungent and eye-watering fumes, searing heat and deafening sound not remotely present in GT4. It also involves being honest with yourself about your limitations and ego.

After all this time, I've learned that it is a primary error to confuse reality with fantasy. It seems to me that RadioGT so fervently longs to identify with real racing that he confuses fantasy racing with real racing, and seemingly needs to insist that fantasy racing, along with those that do it, conform to his vision of how real racing ought to be done.

RadioGT, you are on a slippery slope. Others before you have been on the slippery slope that leads from reality to fantasy and on down into madness and danger for yourself and others. We have seen that you are invoking aliens in your logic. What next, Hitler or Manson? Before you once more lash out at others not sharing your peculiar vision quest, it may be salutary to spend some quality time with older, wiser members of your family, or perhaps the family physician or counselor.

In conclusion, I'd like to note that we are all imperfect beings presumably trying to make the best out of our challenges and opportunities, and maybe having a little fun along the way. This 200 A-spec forum is dedicated to those of us trying to have a little fun along the way. I'd like to think that my contributions have been hopeful, helpful and humorous to those trying to share in the fun. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all say the same thing?

Sincerely wishing all the very best,
Dotini

 

[Open Addict]

RadioGT, Double posting is not a good way to put your point across.

One on the best things above you have said, and I think this is how we are clashing.
200 Point wallriding is not *technically* winning however is does gain you 200 points.
I will agree with you on this. Although it is *technically* not a WIN.
It is (and i am not the only one who thinks this) playing the game to get maximum points available.

This forum was created, to help other members ACHIEVE maximum point available, which we all know is 111,813.
And if ACHIEVING this maximum you have to cut corners, bash the AI or ride a wall, we are happy to do this.

Maybe you could start your own thread for "real honest, real racing, No wallriding, bashing or corner cutting, maximum points WINS"

 

[ajbownes]

You know, I'm sure we would all love to be able to win every single race totally clean like all the great drivers do but this is a video game, this isn't real life. I do feel a greater sense of achievement from winning like that but it isn't going to happen every time. You have to take advantage of the little things that the game gives you.

You can deny it all you want but you have tried to force your opinion that you have to race perfectly for it to be a win. In the real world, that would be true. But this is just a video game and is meant to be enjoyed and played however you want. If you don't like that, tough. That's just how it is.