- 117
If not for the understanding folk here at GTP, GT4 would surely have driven me completely insane by now! 👍 
General Discussion
- Thread starter daan
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SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
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- Virginia USA
- SuperCobraJet1
Following the discussion the last few posts about Super Speedway 150 Miles that "imtheleprechaun" describes in such ventingly honest terms.
Remembering back, I have to agree, its every lousy thing he says it is, and maybe more.
I can remember after the first couple of attempts at it how utterly futile and ridiculous it seemed. There were many other Max pt. races where you are left with the same initial impression.
I think this one is probably the most blatant example in GT4, of employing total and complete "fantasy" to win a Max. pt. race.
You might survive some "wall riding", "rough driving", "grass cutting","crashing and even bashing" to win a race, although admittedly "not likely", but you could never by any stretch survive the kind of double impact with the wall per lap required to accomplish this race.
Nevertheless........ there it sits like all the rest. Looming like a taunting bully,
Nah, nah nah nah nah, you can't beat me, nah, nah nah nah nah, you can't win 200 points. So on and so forth.
Ahhhh, the Great Dotini! 👍
Remembering back, I have to agree, its every lousy thing he says it is, and maybe more.
I can remember after the first couple of attempts at it how utterly futile and ridiculous it seemed. There were many other Max pt. races where you are left with the same initial impression.
I think this one is probably the most blatant example in GT4, of employing total and complete "fantasy" to win a Max. pt. race.
You might survive some "wall riding", "rough driving", "grass cutting","crashing and even bashing" to win a race, although admittedly "not likely", but you could never by any stretch survive the kind of double impact with the wall per lap required to accomplish this race.
Nevertheless........ there it sits like all the rest. Looming like a taunting bully,
Nah, nah nah nah nah, you can't beat me, nah, nah nah nah nah, you can't win 200 points. So on and so forth.
Ahhhh, the Great Dotini! 👍
I tried searching but didnt find what I was looking for...
What modifications do not affect points? I know most drivetrain stuff, anything else? Brakes, suspension, etc..
Ive knocked most of the easy 200pt races out of the way, I think Im right around 45-47k. Im taking my sweet time (when I have it) to go through the FGTC and seem to do fairly well with a stock R8, but any race that uses the Group C/LMP cars I cant get. The Merc CLK GTR is horrible combined with my driving style, Im dusted in the first few laps so Im leaving those alone for now.
I want to start running the manufacture races, which brings me to my question of mods that dont take away points.
What modifications do not affect points? I know most drivetrain stuff, anything else? Brakes, suspension, etc..
Ive knocked most of the easy 200pt races out of the way, I think Im right around 45-47k. Im taking my sweet time (when I have it) to go through the FGTC and seem to do fairly well with a stock R8, but any race that uses the Group C/LMP cars I cant get. The Merc CLK GTR is horrible combined with my driving style, Im dusted in the first few laps so Im leaving those alone for now.
I want to start running the manufacture races, which brings me to my question of mods that dont take away points.
This should make things a it easier....
With the Saleens I see it listed in places that the max you can get is 145...I had ballast set all the way to the rear, n2 tires, no2 and 9500 miles and I got 197 for all five races. It was dirty though, very dirty. Is this frowned upon?
With the Saleens I see it listed in places that the max you can get is 145...I had ballast set all the way to the rear, n2 tires, no2 and 9500 miles and I got 197 for all five races. It was dirty though, very dirty. Is this frowned upon?
AMG.
Staff Emeritus
- 3,116
- NL, Leiden
- GTP_AMG
Only by one or two 'holier than thou' GTP members.
Of course we prefer if you don't do it but if you're going for max points the less skilled driver (most of us) will on occasion need to resort to dirty tactics.
See also [post=2458945]this post[/post]
P.S. 200 points is obtainable.
AMG.
More like unholier than thou
Well, there's us few and about 99 per cent of the simracing world, if one dares ever venture outside GTPlanet of course. ..Which will void any actual results, of course. Dirty = Auto DQ/DNF. Always.
...But like he said, if you're going for max points and don't care about actual driving, just the (meaningless) points, then hey... bash away any way you like.
- 985
More like unholier than thou
..Which will void any actual results, of course. Dirty = Auto DQ/DNF. Always.
...But like he said, if you're going for max points and don't care about actual driving, just the (meaningless) points, then hey... bash away any way you like.
However being the fact that this is GTPlanet, and that this is the 200 A-Spec Races thread, no-one (well except you), really cares about your opinions.
Welcome to the hunt seanyb505. Most of us in here, will be happy to offer assistance to your quest. However there are a few who will offer resistance.
I'm currently working on a "perfect" game save for max A-spec points...
Basically, every completed race is a new win for max A-spec points. No losses, no race repeated. So far, I've also only done championship races as complete championships, no single races.
Just wondering if anyone else had been down this path. It's a little more time-consuming this way, as I generally wind up winning the tough races at least twice; first time through, I find a good AI lineup which can be replicated, work out my settings, practice at it until I can win... Then I reset without saving, get to the lineup again, and now I have to win it on the first attempt; if that fails, practice some more and go back and do it again.
I don't know if I'll ever actually finish and get to the magic 111,813 points, but I think 100,000 will be fairly easy to do. So far I've been sticking with the 200 pointers for the most part, although I did knock off the MG Challenge at 180 points per race; this leaves me right now at 350 wins out of 350 races, with 78,400 A-spec points. (345 wins at 200 points each, 34 missions at 250 each, and 5 wins at 180 each.)
One general question about this -- is it actually possible to sweep the FGT championship straight through at 200 points per race? I gather that the FGT car has trouble winning the Super Speedway event, and I don't relish the thought of trying to sweep the entire 15-race series in anything else....
Basically, every completed race is a new win for max A-spec points. No losses, no race repeated. So far, I've also only done championship races as complete championships, no single races.
Just wondering if anyone else had been down this path. It's a little more time-consuming this way, as I generally wind up winning the tough races at least twice; first time through, I find a good AI lineup which can be replicated, work out my settings, practice at it until I can win... Then I reset without saving, get to the lineup again, and now I have to win it on the first attempt; if that fails, practice some more and go back and do it again.
I don't know if I'll ever actually finish and get to the magic 111,813 points, but I think 100,000 will be fairly easy to do. So far I've been sticking with the 200 pointers for the most part, although I did knock off the MG Challenge at 180 points per race; this leaves me right now at 350 wins out of 350 races, with 78,400 A-spec points. (345 wins at 200 points each, 34 missions at 250 each, and 5 wins at 180 each.)
One general question about this -- is it actually possible to sweep the FGT championship straight through at 200 points per race? I gather that the FGT car has trouble winning the Super Speedway event, and I don't relish the thought of trying to sweep the entire 15-race series in anything else....
The black Mazda 787B with a Stage 4 Turbo and the Audi R8 are both great choices for the series, and are probably better than the FGT is for 200 points. Of course, each race has an optimal car choice, whether it be the Mazda, the Audi, the Chaparral 2J, or the FGT itself, so you're adding difficulty to the championship by doing it this way, but it can definitely be swept with either of the first two cars I mentioned. 👍
I don't mind difficulty, but what would be a bummer would be to find halfway through the series that the chosen car just can't win by any means possible. Sounds like you're saying that the black 787B is a good choice. I'm coming up soon on the week when that car is available in the used car lot, I'll have to make sure I have enough cash around to pick it up. (Currently at about 1.8 million in the bank, and I've bought nearly every car that I will need for the manufacturer's races, so I should be set as long as I don't squander the cash.)
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
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- SuperCobraJet1
Some of the points are relatively easy to obtain and could be considered meaningless.
However, many points are extremely difficult to obtain and would only be meaningless to those who, unwilling to brave the 200pt. challenge gauntlet, will never know the skillful effort and tenacity involved to prevail.
Granted, these points are probably not obtainable by the average sim driver.
- 985
Open discussion question...
How different would this forum be if PD had not capped A-spec points at 200?
Obviously there would be no talk of 200 point races, it would just be max A-spec point racing... But how far would people be willing to go? For one thing, you'd have to think that you haven't maxed out a race until you've run it with worn out oil, N1 tires, minimal downforce, and maximum ballast. Which is only true today of about a dozen different manufacturers' events.
There would be no "finish line" of 111813 points, obviously. I doubt that anybody could ever claim that they've gotten all of the A-spec points that they could. Somebody would come along and point out that they could have gotten more points in a worn out MX-5 on N2 tires and with 100 ballast, and that in fact, the race has been won in such a car, probably by some racer with super-human talent...
Most of us are familiar with how the A-spec point calculation works, based on Wild Cobra Z28's tables. If not capped at 200 points, just how high could you go and still win the race? Imagine some of the easier 200 point races, then think how much more handicap you could take on and still win the race...
I imagine that 500 point races would be possible in the Dodge Ram, since the Dodge Ram seems to give about 300 points more than it really should based on its true capability. So do an "honest" 200 point race in the Ram, and you'd get an uncapped 500 points.
How different would this forum be if PD had not capped A-spec points at 200?
Obviously there would be no talk of 200 point races, it would just be max A-spec point racing... But how far would people be willing to go? For one thing, you'd have to think that you haven't maxed out a race until you've run it with worn out oil, N1 tires, minimal downforce, and maximum ballast. Which is only true today of about a dozen different manufacturers' events.
There would be no "finish line" of 111813 points, obviously. I doubt that anybody could ever claim that they've gotten all of the A-spec points that they could. Somebody would come along and point out that they could have gotten more points in a worn out MX-5 on N2 tires and with 100 ballast, and that in fact, the race has been won in such a car, probably by some racer with super-human talent...
Most of us are familiar with how the A-spec point calculation works, based on Wild Cobra Z28's tables. If not capped at 200 points, just how high could you go and still win the race? Imagine some of the easier 200 point races, then think how much more handicap you could take on and still win the race...
I imagine that 500 point races would be possible in the Dodge Ram, since the Dodge Ram seems to give about 300 points more than it really should based on its true capability. So do an "honest" 200 point race in the Ram, and you'd get an uncapped 500 points.
If they weren't capped, maximum point racing would be a disaster. I'm perfectly fine with having a few manufacturer events in which outrageous tactics are necessary, but having to do so in each and every race would be painful. Victories in such races are satisfying to a point, but it would become very tiresome very quickly. At that point, calling GT4 a racing simulator, as you're playing it, would really be a stretch (more than it already is). And you would constantly have to revert to the same cars - GSX, Ram, etc. - and sift through countless lineups in order to really maximize your potential. Needless to say, I'm very glad that 200 points is the most that can be offered.
Without the 200-point cap, the term "rat race" comes to mind to describe the search for more and more points. It would become a challenge to beat others, not to reach a personal goal (100,000, 110,000, 111,813), and the consequences would include situations like the one you mentioned. 
It wouldn't take long to become a case in point of diminishing returns, and it would only serve to make you thoroughly frustrated with the game. It simply wouldn't be fun any more.
Edit: There's also something fundamentally unsatisfying about a system in which there is no maximum level to attain. Computer games with high-score leaderboards are often addictive for the people who end up near the top, but I think I'm right in saying that they probably don't enjoy themselves much when they're playing. In 200-point races, you naturally feel (even if it's irrational) that you've done something to its fullest, and if you were earning 235 points per race, you would always have the thought nagging in your mind, "but there could be someone who's earned 238 points - I need to return to this with a better lineup."
It wouldn't take long to become a case in point of diminishing returns, and it would only serve to make you thoroughly frustrated with the game. It simply wouldn't be fun any more.Edit: There's also something fundamentally unsatisfying about a system in which there is no maximum level to attain. Computer games with high-score leaderboards are often addictive for the people who end up near the top, but I think I'm right in saying that they probably don't enjoy themselves much when they're playing. In 200-point races, you naturally feel (even if it's irrational) that you've done something to its fullest, and if you were earning 235 points per race, you would always have the thought nagging in your mind, "but there could be someone who's earned 238 points - I need to return to this with a better lineup."
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GTsail
Premium
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- Florida
- GTsail2/GTsail3
I'm glad that there is a "finish line", even if I personally end up 100 points short of it.
If the A-spec point system was totally open-ended, this would give us a nebulous goal, and we would probably all lose our requisite focus.
Also as mentioned, since the A-spec system is somewhat flawed, I'm afraid that we would end up only being experts in driving the Dodge Ram!
Respectfully,
GTsail290
If the A-spec point system was totally open-ended, this would give us a nebulous goal, and we would probably all lose our requisite focus.
Also as mentioned, since the A-spec system is somewhat flawed, I'm afraid that we would end up only being experts in driving the Dodge Ram!
Respectfully,
GTsail290
I'm probably dating myself a little bit, but reminds me of my Astrosmash playing days in the early 80s on Intellivision. Basically a game where rocks, missiles, flying saucers, etc., appear and you shoot them. The thing is, that after you reach I think 20,000 points and the flying saucers show up, the game never really changes after that except to get faster and faster as your score goes up.
IIRC, the game didn't really get difficult for me until I hit 750,000 points, and it usually took an hour or more to reach that score, at which point the speed seemed to crank up a notch and you went from the relative boredom of getting to that level to the relative terror of watching all of those extra "lives" that you accumulated now steadily getting eaten up.
All of that might have been worth it if there was some reward, some easter egg, some prize, new "enemies" at a million points, whatever... But no, a higher score just ended up proving that you survived longer than you did last time against the never-ending onslaught...
I guess there was an "ending" to the game once you reached 10,000,000 points, because the score display got corrupted, and you could say that you had "beaten" the game because you had exceeded its design parameters.
I never made it that far...
- 985
The other problem I see, if the were no cap, would be if some-one was able to get two more points than you in a specific race, would said person then be willing to share that information. I mean share like the original 111,813 hunters of the past did (like Route66, ANK, Slotcard and the rest), probably not. And therefore only the real die hard hunters would probably ever give this a go. I myself probably would not (time restraints).
Being that I knew there was a finish, i gave it a go, (lucky to get there) and I feel that is why others are still trying and new people come on board. Because there IS a finish line (pardon the pun).
Being that I knew there was a finish, i gave it a go, (lucky to get there
) and I feel that is why others are still trying and new people come on board. Because there IS a finish line (pardon the pun).
- 3,770
- Manning, SC
I have discovered a way to wear down the Daihatsu Copen for us NTSC players that are having problems getting that last 1 hp out of their car. 👍 First you need to buy a new Copen and equip it with the following parts:
stage 3 turbo
racing intercooler
racing muffler
sports chip
racing suspension
racing transmission
triple plate clutch
racing flywheel
The only setup changes required are transmission autoset to 12 w/ 0.600 5th gear, minimum ride height, and camber set to 0.0/0.0. Run the car in B-spec mode (3X) at Test Course for approximately 8900 miles and it should show 111 hp with all power upgrades on the change parts/settings screen, 57 hp without any upgrades. Now 166 A-spec points in the Copen races is possible!
stage 3 turbo
racing intercooler
racing muffler
sports chip
racing suspension
racing transmission
triple plate clutch
racing flywheel
The only setup changes required are transmission autoset to 12 w/ 0.600 5th gear, minimum ride height, and camber set to 0.0/0.0. Run the car in B-spec mode (3X) at Test Course for approximately 8900 miles and it should show 111 hp with all power upgrades on the change parts/settings screen, 57 hp without any upgrades. Now 166 A-spec points in the Copen races is possible!
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
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- Virginia USA
- SuperCobraJet1
This is what I finally used to subdue the Copen:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2783608&postcount=164
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2783608&postcount=164
- 39
I got a note on Wild Cobra's excellent work on the A-spec data, and some of the posts I read on this forum.
It might have been mentioned before, but I didn't see it on this (or any other) forum, so here it goes.
Although it would be extremely hard to find any numerical values for this,
changing the suspension can change the A-spec value, by changing the downforce of a car (changing the downforce the game 'thinks' a car has, not changing the values of the downforce in the setup screen)
To do this one would have to alter the angle of the car, i.e. changing the front ride height relative to the rear (or vice versa).
I'm 99% sure I encountered this once, but didn't keep a record nor did any research.
Physically, this makes sense though, effectively changing the angle of attack, see this wikipedia-page about aerofoils, but remember they're upside-down on a car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfoil
It might have been mentioned before, but I didn't see it on this (or any other) forum, so here it goes.
Although it would be extremely hard to find any numerical values for this,
changing the suspension can change the A-spec value, by changing the downforce of a car (changing the downforce the game 'thinks' a car has, not changing the values of the downforce in the setup screen)
To do this one would have to alter the angle of the car, i.e. changing the front ride height relative to the rear (or vice versa).
I'm 99% sure I encountered this once, but didn't keep a record nor did any research.
Physically, this makes sense though, effectively changing the angle of attack, see this wikipedia-page about aerofoils, but remember they're upside-down on a car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfoil
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No, it never does. At one point, someone could have sworn that changing the ride height of the Chaparral 2J altered A-spec points by affecting the vacuum beneath the car, but that proved to be false. GT4 just isn't sophisticated enough for suspension settings to affect the A-spec points subtracted for downforce, even though the two are obviously closely interrelated in reality.
- 39
Hmmm, that pseudo-encounter happened when I was just starting GT4 (or any other GT)
little over a year ago, something else must have affected the points, mileage or so, didn't get that back then.
OT: What does OLR-clean mean in your sig?
little over a year ago, something else must have affected the points, mileage or so, didn't get that back then.
OT: What does OLR-clean mean in your sig?
Yeah, you probably installed a power upgrade or added some ballast, and then played around with the suspension and forgot that you had changed the car's point value. Fortunately, the oversight in A-Spec calculation does mean that you're free to use the suspension to your advantage to create downforce, to whatever extent that's possible in GT4.
- 985
Being that Austin has missed this part (maybe) OLR-clean would be "On Line Racing - Clean" meaning that two wheels on track all the time and no deliberate contact with AI?
