Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[mister dog]

At least their office should be always clean.

You know, knowing PD i wouldn't be surprised if it would be all dirty and dusty over there, as all the hoover resources are used for sound sample generation.

On the other hand they would have troubles during beta testing, if the cleaning lady would hoover at that moment (synchronized sound etcetera), so i'm guessing that's why they left all the beta testing to their day 1 customers

 

[Griffith500]

I can't see a patch coming to change every car sound in the game to be realistic, that would be a huge patch and a **** ton of work for 1200+ cars, i think kaz just said that for everyone to get off his ******* back.

Kaz also said that they've been working on it for years. I personally think it's entirely possible; there's hardly been a new car sound come out of PD since GT2. That's plenty of time to have characterised 1200 cars for the new system.

I wouldn't expect it tomorrow. It'd be nice, though.

 

[diegorborges]

Kaz also said that they've been working on it for years. I personally think it's entirely possible; there's hardly been a new car sound come out of PD since GT2. That's plenty of time to have characterised 1200 cars for the new system.

I wouldn't expect it tomorrow. It'd be nice, though.

Yep. People expecting it tomorrow or in any time frame less than 6 months from now are prone to disappointment.

I would expect it for something like a "Spec2" update in the end of this year, after all other important features are already implemented: course maker, community, etc.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Yep. People expecting it tomorrow or in any time frame less than 6 months from now are prone to disappointment.

I would expect it for something like a "Spec2" update in the end of this year, after all other important features are already implemented: course maker, community, etc.

Expecting from them is always something prone to a bitter disappointment.

 

[Griffith500]

Expecting from them is always something prone to a bitter disappointment.

The expectations are formed in your mind from the information given to you. It is your responsibility to verify the integrity of that information, if you plan to act upon it. As it stands, there is no information. Forming an expectation in that situation is therefore insane, and bitter disappointment is surely the least of your worries.

Also, expecting nothing is not the same as expecting disappointment.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

The expectations are formed in your mind from the information given to you. It is your responsibility to verify the integrity of that information, if you plan to act upon it. As it stands, there is no information. Forming an expectation in that situation is therefore insane, and bitter disappointment is surely the least of your worries.

Also, expecting nothing is not the same as expecting disappointment.

Oh, but there is.

Kaz himself said something about a overhaul in sounds, updates and all that, am I right?

And, mind you, to be true, I am not building any kind of expectation (and even if I did, would be something based upon things said by the allmighty Kaz himself, not you). The sounds won' be improved. And I am fine with that.

What bugs me is the excuses made by fans, willing to neglect the reality just to cut some slack for them.

And in GT7 they'll be, probably. But even than, all the shortcomings will be "hardware's fault", as always.

 

[Griffith500]

Oh, but there is.

Kaz himself said something about a overhaul in sounds, updates and all that, am I right?

Yes, and these were advertised at first as being unlikely to be in the game at launch, and then definitely not. They will be added in an update, they said. Disappointing? That's up to you. It always was.

And, mind you, to be true, I am not building any kind of expectation (and even if I did, would be something based upon things said by the allmighty Kaz himself, not you). The sounds won' be improved. And I am fine with that.

I only told people to expect new sounds on PS4, so you'd be right to believe Kaz over me, from the evidence as much as from the simple logic of the situation. As you might expect, I was pleasantly surprised to be wrong in this case. I still expect the PS4 will bring noticeable improvements, quite what will depend on what the updated sounds for GT6 actually are.

To state that the sounds "won't be improved" (aside from being uninformed) clearly, in your mind, gives you licence to lament disappointment at every step. Again: expecting nothing is not the same as expecting to be disappointed. And expecting to get nothing is not the same as expecting nothing - i.e. having no expectations at all.

What bugs me is the excuses made by fans, willing to neglect the reality just to cut some slack for them.

And in GT7 they'll be, probably. But even than, all the shortcomings will be "hardware's fault", as always.

Hardware has never, and will never be "enough". That's how programming has always worked. If you're personally unwilling to accept that, again, that's your issue. If you're unable to tell the difference between a programming issue and a design issue, either learn it for yourself, or keep it to yourself.

We have enough bilge poured over these forums daily from people regurgitating half-understood "truths" as interpreted by people with ulterior motives. The least anyone can do is make sure their bilge is correctly informed.

Finally, constructing your own "reality" to be disappointed at is no better than denying actuality either.

 

[avilab]

The only reason I struggle to think that Kaz will include full new sounds for GT6 is that once that is completed, it might affect people upgrading to GT7 in a year or so. Especially if they release GT6 for PS4 down the road.

 

[Griffith500]

The only reason I struggle to think that Kaz will include full new sounds for GT6 is that once that is completed, it might affect people upgrading to GT7 in a year or so. Especially if they release GT6 for PS4 down the road.

The reason, in my opinion, for the new sounds to be so long in coming is because of difficulties in adapting them to the PS3. That implies simplifications, compromises (on top of compromises) and flat-out omission.

That should still leave lots of room for improvement on PS4, although whether that will be noticeable (to the same degree) as what should be possible on PS3 already is debatable. I'm sure for those who claim that sounds are important to them, there will still be room for improvement with the new sounds, and on PS4 even.

 

[starknight97]

I think I see the problem here, the majority of players think the sounds are fine because they haven't heard really good engine sound samples for example. I was talking about gt5 with a sort of casual player (basically the majority of the customer base) I tried to talk with him about the fact that the engine sounds are bad but he just said that they are good . I'm guessing that is the same opinion of %80 percent of the gt6 customer base because either they haven't noticed it yet, thought about, heard good engine sounds in a game or discussed it.

 

[mister dog]

I think I see the problem here, the majority of players think the sounds are fine because they haven't heard really good engine sound samples for example. I was talking about gt5 with a sort of casual player (basically the majority of the customer base) I tried to talk with him about the fact that the engine sounds are bad but he just said that they are good . I'm guessing that is the same opinion of %80 percent of the gt6 customer base because either they haven't noticed it yet, thought about, heard good engine sounds in a game or discussed it.

To backup your point, couple of years ago whilst still playing GT i was mostly disturbed with the extremely annoying ones (vacuum cleaners from hell kinda type), and didn't really mind the majority that much... until i played FM4; engine sounds were so real and impressive there that afterwards you just realize how ridiculous the ones in GT are.

After experiencing proper engine sounds, you can never go back to the Dyson orchestra that GT is.

The reason, in my opinion, for the new sounds to be so long in coming is because of difficulties in adapting them to the PS3. That implies simplifications, compromises (on top of compromises) and flat-out omission.

That should still leave lots of room for improvement on PS4, although whether that will be noticeable (to the same degree) as what should be possible on PS3 already is debatable. I'm sure for those who claim that sounds are important to them, there will still be room for improvement with the new sounds, and on PS4 even.

Hardware excuse again eh?

 

[snoopybg]

Given the way things have been unfolding we may get new sounds for GT6, but Ithink GT7 will be GT6 with better graphics on PS4. Especially if they plan to release it this year.

 

[Griffith500]

...

Hardware excuse again eh?

Laugh all you want, but you clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. Ideally, you'd run an exact replica of the entire car, down to every sub-atomic particle. Why don't we? Well, the interesting effects are probably at the macro-molecular level at the lowest (even classical continuum mechanics is a convenient approximation), but that isn't possible to achieve on current hardware either (in real time at least; but it's probably not even explicitly "solvable" at all for many phenomena).

Everything is an approximation, and as a result everything could be better with better hardware, because the approximations can be made with finer strokes, and less of the "real" behaviour can be omitted as a result. You call it an excuse, I call it a fact of life - to get a 1:1 replication, you literally need a 1:1 replication. There will always be room for improvement.

Remember, though, that I was talking primarily about the new sounds. The existing sounds are just "placeholders", as we've been told, and as the new X-cars rather aptly demonstrate.

 

[mister dog]

Laugh all you want, but you clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. Ideally, you'd run an exact replica of the entire car, down to every sub-atomic particle. Why don't we? Well, the interesting effects are probably at the macro-molecular level at the lowest (even classical continuum mechanics is a convenient approximation), but that isn't possible to achieve on current hardware either (in real time at least; but it's probably not even explicitly "solvable" at all for many phenomena).

Everything is an approximation, and as a result everything could be better with better hardware, because the approximations can be made with finer strokes, and less of the "real" behaviour can be omitted as a result. You call it an excuse, I call it a fact of life - to get a 1:1 replication, you literally need a 1:1 replication. There will always be room for improvement.

Remember, though, that I was talking primarily about the new sounds. The existing sounds are just "placeholders", as we've been told, and as the new X-cars rather aptly demonstrate.

Look Griffith, you've been by far the most vocal person in this thread analyzing the term "sound" in every way possible, just to find possible reasons why they still use samples that date back 10 years.

Fact of the matter is GT has the worst engine sounds of any racing game for a loooong time now, and other developers don't get pulled back by hardware restrictions or other excuses and can deliver good sounds AND a good racing game with many other features.

There comes a time you just have to admit PD does not give a crap about sounds, and keep them as they are as long as people still buy their franchise in the millions. Laziness they call it...

 

[EAGLE 5]

Look Griffith, you've been by far the most vocal person in this thread analyzing the term "sound" in every way possible, just to find possible reasons why they still use samples that date back 10 years.

Fact of the matter is GT has the worst engine sounds of any racing game for a loooong time now, and other developers don't get pulled back by hardware restrictions or other excuses and can deliver good sounds AND a good racing game with many other features.

There comes a time you just have to admit PD does not give a crap about sounds, and keep them as they are as long as people still buy their franchise in the millions. Laziness they call it...

I'm going to have to agree on this one. The Xbox360 is technically an inferior machine to the PS3 (not by much) and yet Forza's sounds are amazing.

Keeping it apples to apples just listen to EAs titles (mostly NFS) on the PS3. They are also great. So what's the problem here? Effort or technical ability on PD's part? I doubt it's technical ability, perhaps they should invest more time on polishing up the audio/visual connection to the game rather then packing it with additional cars that don't sound great or have missing things like gauges not working, wrong specs etc. etc.

Less but good imho is better than more but mediocre.

 

[Griffith500]

Look Griffith, you've been by far the most vocal person in this thread analyzing the term "sound" in every way possible, just to find possible reasons why they still use samples that date back 10 years.

Fact of the matter is GT has the worst engine sounds of any racing game for a loooong time now, and other developers don't get pulled back by hardware restrictions or other excuses and can deliver good sounds AND a good racing game with many other features.

There comes a time you just have to admit PD does not give a crap about sounds, and keep them as they are as long as people still buy their franchise in the millions. Laziness they call it...

You can believe what you want, mister dog. I don't actually care what you think, or what you claim to know. What I know is that you're in here spouting baseless accusations of laziness and apathy on PD's part just to make yourself look good and feel better.

You can highlight my technocratic approach and denounce it on technophobic nonsense, but the fact is that I can demonstrate what I'm talking about - all you have is a grudge, a chip on your shoulder, an attitude. Yes, all developers are held back by hardware. Yes, PD hasn't produced any new sounds (that we've heard) since before GT4, but based on the evidence available (and not some emotional hunch), it was clear since GT5 Prologue that they were up to something - now we have confirmation that new sounds do exist. It all adds up.

Let me remind you: I'm talking about the new sounds, as previewed by the X-cars. You'd understand better what I was talking about, if you had the game.

 

[mister dog]

You can believe what you want, mister dog. I don't actually care what you think, or what you claim to know. What I know is that you're in here spouting baseless accusations of laziness and apathy on PD's part just to make yourself look good and feel better.

I don't need a videogame forum to look good and feel better eh.

 

[Griffith500]

I don't need a videogame forum to look good and feel better eh.

Sure you don't.
That's why every post is filled with veiled emotional justifications for your purchasing decisions.

 

[TheGame21x]

Laugh all you want, but you clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. Ideally, you'd run an exact replica of the entire car, down to every sub-atomic particle. Why don't we? Well, the interesting effects are probably at the macro-molecular level at the lowest (even classical continuum mechanics is a convenient approximation), but that isn't possible to achieve on current hardware either (in real time at least; but it's probably not even explicitly "solvable" at all for many phenomena).

Everything is an approximation, and as a result everything could be better with better hardware, because the approximations can be made with finer strokes, and less of the "real" behaviour can be omitted as a result. You call it an excuse, I call it a fact of life - to get a 1:1 replication, you literally need a 1:1 replication. There will always be room for improvement.

Remember, though, that I was talking primarily about the new sounds. The existing sounds are just "placeholders", as we've been told, and as the new X-cars rather aptly demonstrate.

This is some of the most elaborately asinine apologist nonsense I've ever seen. Not just on this forum and not just for Polyphony Digital, but ever.

On one hand, you're technically correct, to get a perfect 1:1 recreation, you need to have a perfect 1:1 recreation. On the other, that has nothing to do with this.

The Playstation 3 is every bit as powerful as the Xbox 360 but Forza Motorsport has always had better audio than Gran Turismo. Always. Even going back another generation to the Xbox. There is no excuse for Gran Turismo to have such bad audio after all these years. Hell, other games on the PS3 like Need for Speed Rivals and many other racing games have better audio than Gran Turismo.

So the hardware excuse doesn't fly. There's no technical reason for Gran Turismo's audio to be as bad as it is and there's no excusing it. The reason Gran Turismo's audio is so poor is because Polyphony Digital has been too lazy or too stubborn to fix it. They've had this entire generation and two massive budgets between Gran Turismo 5 and 6. The fact that people are still making excuses for them after all this time and two games is as much laughable as it is sad.

 

[Griffith500]

This is some of the most elaborately asinine apologist nonsense I've ever seen. Not just on this forum and not just for Polyphony Digital, but ever.

On one hand, you're technically correct, to get a perfect 1:1 recreation, you need to have a perfect 1:1 recreation. On the other, that has nothing to do with this.

The Playstation 3 is every bit as powerful as the Xbox 360 but Forza Motorsport has always had better audio than Gran Turismo. Always. Even going back another generation to the Xbox. There is no excuse for Gran Turismo to have such bad audio after all these years. Hell, other games on the PS3 like Need for Speed Rivals and many other racing games have better audio than Gran Turismo.

So the hardware excuse doesn't fly. There's no technical reason for Gran Turismo's audio to be as bad as it is and there's no excusing it. The reason Gran Turismo's audio is so poor is because Polyphony Digital has been too lazy or too stubborn to fix it. They've had this entire generation and two massive budgets between Gran Turismo 5 and 6. The fact that people are still making excuses for them after all this time and two games is as much laughable as it is sad.

Congratulations on missing the point. 10/10

I'll repeat for the hard-of-cognition: I'm talking about the new sounds.

 

[TheGame21x]

Congratulations on missing the point. 10/10

I'll repeat for the hard-of-cognition: I'm talking about the new sounds.

You say that as if the new sounds are on par with the competition.

They aren't.

 

[United6694]

It's not just PD though
Take the M4 all new yet sounds terrible, has no one at BMW thought hang on a sec, the car in the game sounds nothing like real life.

Unless it really does sound like that in which case BMW have lost the plot

 

[Griffith500]

You say that as if the new sounds are on par with the competition.

They aren't.

I have reason to believe they're ... incomplete.

Nobody else is doing that kind of thing; the level of expression possible from such techniques is not matched by anyone from the "competition". They just need to get it tuned right, and running efficiently. That's a technical challenge impacted by the hardware, by the way.

EDIT: manufacturers will surely have been privy to the new sounds.
Also, don't expect miracles, but PD should make a large step forwards with their update - whether that's better than any "competition" will be down to the individual.

 

[MKVSupra]

Anyone notice the Toyota Ft1 sounds awesome, the turbo BOV, i love it when she downshifts multiple times.

by the way lots of cars sound mediocre in real life.

 

[MeanElf]

...Hardware excuse again eh?

Vacuum jokes again...really?

 

[TheGame21x]

I have reason to believe they're ... incomplete.

Nobody else is doing that kind of thing; the level of expression possible from such techniques is not matched by anyone from the "competition". They just need to get it tuned right, and running efficiently. That's a technical challenge impacted by the hardware, by the way.

EDIT: manufacturers will surely have been privy to the new sounds.
Also, don't expect miracles, but PD should make a large step forwards with their update - whether that's better than any "competition" will be down to the individual.

Incomplete, inadequate, it matters not. The fact of the matter is, there are a large number of games on the market today that have much, much better audio than Gran Turismo. And I don't mean better as in subjectively better, I mean objectively better because the sound is more accurate and far closer to the sound the real car the game's replicating makes.

Of course running the audio efficiently is a technical challenge. I'm not saying it isn't. But what I am saying is that the hardware running these games has been more than adequate, given the ability of other developers working on the same platform and platforms that are roughly equivalent to produce far better results than Polyphony Digital.

And I've heard it all before. "Don't expect miracles but they should get it right this time" "This time, you'll see!" "Just wait until GT6 comes out!". I'm not falling for it again. Again, Polyphony Digital has had upwards of eight years to get their act together in the sound department and massive budgets to work with and they still haven't done it. So trust me, I'm not expecting a miracle. Heck, at this point, I'm barely expecting passable.

EDIT: But, of course, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Sydbom]

Anyone notice the Toyota Ft1 sounds awesome, the turbo BOV, i love it when she downshifts multiple times.

by the way lots of cars sound mediocre in real life.

You sir are absolutely right!
Even some of the worst sounding cars in this game probably sounds even worst then that in real life!
Most cars dont really have a sound at all!
And even cars that sound amaaaazing in real life rarely sound good from the inside! Its just the people outside the car that gets to enjoy it!
I mean this is the reason us guys (and girls!) rev it up in tunnels!!!

The porsche carrera gt for example! It has one of theeee most fantastic exhaust notes ever! But you cant hear that when driving it! Sure it doesnt sound like these cars from the inside but you understand what I mean.

I think the replay sounds from the outside in this game is for the most part ok! Even really good some of them. The inside... Not so much.

Fm5 is aaaaamaaaaazing in this department! Its just to bad its a little too realistic since they do not sound as good on the inside as they do from the outside, and I always drive cockpit view

 

[Griffith500]

Incomplete, inadequate, it matters not. The fact of the matter is, there are a large number of games on the market today that have much, much better audio than Gran Turismo. And I don't mean better as in subjectively better, I mean objectively better because the sound is more accurate and far closer to the sound the real car the game's replicating makes.

Of course running the audio efficiently is a technical challenge. I'm not saying it isn't. But what I am saying is that the hardware running these games has been more than adequate, given the ability of other developers working on the same platform and platforms that are roughly equivalent to produce far better results than Polyphony Digital.

And I've heard it all before. "Don't expect miracles but they should get it right this time" "This time, you'll see!" "Just wait until GT6 comes out!". I'm not falling for it again. Again, Polyphony Digital has had upwards of eight years to get their act together in the sound department and massive budgets to work with and they still haven't done it. So trust me, I'm not expecting a miracle. Heck, at this point, I'm barely expecting passable.

EDIT: But, of course, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

You're still missing the point, and beginning to piss me off with it. I was talking about the success of the new sounds being dependent on hardware, nothing more. You, and the others, have brought this other dimension of emotional nonsense by embellishing meaning to my words. It is not my intention to pass a quality judgement on the current sounds, nor those of any other game.

 

[TheGame21x]

You're still missing the point, and beginning to piss me off with it. I was talking about the success of the new sounds being dependent on hardware, nothing more. You, and the others, have brought this other dimension of emotional nonsense by embellishing meaning to my words. It is not my intention to pass a quality judgement on the current sounds, nor those of any other game.

at the "and beginning to piss me off" part. That's just rich.

In regards to the rest of your post, especially the "success of the new sounds being dependent on hardware" bit...

In other news, water is wet.

 

[Griffith500]

at the "and beginning to piss me off" part. That's just rich.

In regards to the rest of your post, especially the "success of the new sounds being dependent on hardware" bit...

In other news, water is wet.

So, why exactly do you believe that stating such a thing is to be making an "elaborately asinine apologist nonsense" statement?

Is it because you reading comprehension fail? Or are you just another vulture, picking on the bones of someone else's imagined "fight"?