Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[TheGame21x]

So, why exactly do you believe that stating such a thing is to be making an "elaborately asinine apologist" statement?

Is it because you reading comprehension fail? Or are you just another vulture, picking on the bones of someone else's imagined "fight"?

Thank you for reminding us that sound replication is dependent on hardware. I'm sure we already knew that, but thanks anyway.

So?

What, exactly, are you trying to prove? Are you even trying to prove anything at all? If not, what the heck was the point of posting that in the first place? What value is there to simply come into a thread and state the obvious for its own sake? Perhaps I misinterpreted the original point I replied to but I'm not placing "emotional nonsense" into my posts, I'm merely arguing a point.

But whatever, if you're simply stating the obvious and not trying to argue, I'll back off.

 

[Sydbom]

I dont think you two guys should discuss this anymore.
Thats best for everybody.
There wont be better sounds until ps4 anyway. Not dramatically different anyway.

Kiss and make uuup!

 

[Griffith500]

Thank you for reminding us that sound replication is dependent on hardware. I'm sure we already knew that, but thanks anyway.

So?

What, exactly, are you trying to prove? Are you even trying to prove anything at all? If not, what the heck was the point of posting that in the first place? What value is there to simply come into a thread and state the obvious for its own sake? Perhaps I misinterpreted the original point I replied to but I'm not placing "emotional nonsense" into my posts, I'm merely arguing a point.

But whatever, if you're simply stating the obvious and not trying to argue, I'll back off.

You're arguing against a point that wasn't even being made; that GT6's current sounds are the way they are due to hardware limitations. That's why you went on (and on) about those other games.

I was talking about the time it's taken to get the new sounds working on PS3, as prompted by another post, when you lot jumped on it, blind with bloodthirst (as is now too usual).

If I was indeed stating the "obvious", I'm sure such "misunderstanding" would never happen. But it does, all the time. I'm beginning to believe it's not often accidental. Even if it was, it sickens me the lack of forethought people exercise, then try to claim it's the fault of everyone else.

If you can't admit you made a mistake, you need to not get into a position where you have to "back off" in the first place.

The only reason I struggle to think that Kaz will include full new sounds for GT6 is that once that is completed, it might affect people upgrading to GT7 in a year or so. Especially if they release GT6 for PS4 down the road.

The reason, in my opinion, for the new sounds to be so long in coming is because of difficulties in adapting them to the PS3. That implies simplifications, compromises (on top of compromises) and flat-out omission.

That should still leave lots of room for improvement on PS4, although whether that will be noticeable (to the same degree) as what should be possible on PS3 already is debatable. I'm sure for those who claim that sounds are important to them, there will still be room for improvement with the new sounds, and on PS4 even.

For your convenience; this is where it all started. Stating the obvious? Maybe; but that's not what was reacted to.

 

[IneedSchool]

I don't think this problem has to do with the hardware, because the PlayStation 3 can still do amazing stuff. However, I also think that Polyphony is capable of doing a decent job in the sound department after listening to certain cars (Mazda 787B, The Rudbull cars). Most likely, it is Polyphony making odd decisions. It's like they CAN do it, but they choose not to for some odd reason. I expect they will fix the sounds effects when Gran Turismo 7 hits store shelves but if they add in a patch that fixes at least the sounds for SOME cars, that would be great.

 

[Griffith500]

I don't think this problem has to do with the hardware, because the PlayStation 3 can still do amazing stuff. However, I also think that Polyphony is capable of doing a decent job in the sound department after listening to certain cars (Mazda 787B, The Rudbull cars). Most likely, it is Polyphony making odd decisions. It's like they CAN do it, but they choose not to for some odd reason. I expect they will fix the sounds effects when Gran Turismo 7 hits store shelves but if they add in a patch that fixes at least the sounds for SOME cars, that would be enough to satisfy me.

My impression has always been that PD have been playing the long game this gen. It does mean we've been waiting very long for the "goodies", should they even come at all, but it should at least be promising for the PS4. Will it be enough? Again, that's for the individual to decide when the time comes.

 

[eSZee]

That doesn't really sound that great.

I can't see a patch coming to change every car sound in the game to be realistic, that would be a huge patch and a **** ton of work for 1200+ cars, i think kaz just said that for everyone to get off his ******* back.

Hmm. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, as usual, but what if they'll change the way the current samples are processed/converted/outputted instead of giving us 1200 new sounds?
Is it possible for them to change the way they present the current samples to make them better or do they really have to have a huge patch with new sounds?

 

[OdeFinn]

Still having high hopes on patch what will help on sound processing and make them better audible.
Many of current samples are fine, just processed badly or mixed out on "wrong" way.

 

[IneedSchool]

My impression has always been that PD have been playing the long game this gen. It does mean we've been waiting very long for the "goodies", should they even come at all, but it should at least be promising for the PS4. Will it be enough? Again, that's for the individual to decide when the time comes.

I honestly think Polyphony is up to something there with the sounds. It's very likely they'll put in the new sound effects in Gran Turismo 7, but I could see that they are "testing" on Gran Turismo 6 too. I noticed that the new Rudbull cars have a distorted sound that even sounds good on high revs, making it sound more "F1-sh" if that makes any sense. But after driving like my grandmother on the Le Mans straight and Special Stage Route 5, I realize that what makes the car sound great, is that it is you can only hear the sound of the exhaust but the sound of the transmission whine is more quiet. So I think that in future Gran Turismo games, even though Polyphony will aim at realism, the cars might just have a rougher, meatier sound due to their new method of recording the exhaust.

 

[Zelalem]

You're arguing against a point that wasn't even being made; that GT6's current sounds are the way they are due to hardware limitations. That's why you went on (and on) about those other games.

2+ years later...
[...], that GT7's current sound are the way they are due the hardware limitations. I defended PD in the past, but i'll will not do this in the future anymore.

 

[mister dog]

2+ years later...
[...], that GT7's current sound are the way they are due the hardware limitations. I defended PD in the past, but i'll will not do this in the future anymore.

Exactly 👍

Vacuum jokes again...really?

If you want i can start using electrical blenders as a comparison, just to keep it a tad original

 

[andy0a]

Time is the biggest factor here. Waiting game is one game that I hate to play.

There was a saying associated with the PD sound department, I believe it was:

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." and mates, I've been fooled more than twice.

 

[fet_thunderdome]

2 things:

1 hardware is not a point at all. It only justify PD laziness or stubbornness or both. (there are plenty of games even from past generations which sounds way better than GT)

2 x-cars doesn't sound THAT good. They can't compare with other games sounds. They just are better than the average.

There is a fact: PD bothered to mix real engine audio (or at least what it appears to be) with Bathurst trailer. That's curious if not trolling, considering the fact that in my opinion PD has no plans of establishing an effective sound department. They just don't care as long as cars are depicted so close to reality. Obviously we'd like less detail for the wheel nuts if the same attentions are subtracted from making sounds more attractive. That said I appreciate the new gravel sound from under the car.
Sounds for Kaz are like damage: something he's not interested about. Let's deal with it.

 

[Dodzzz]

I don't think this problem has to do with the hardware, because the PlayStation 3 can still do amazing stuff. However, I also think that Polyphony is capable of doing a decent job in the sound department after listening to certain cars (Mazda 787B, The Rudbull cars). Most likely, it is Polyphony making odd decisions. It's like they CAN do it, but they choose not to for some odd reason. I expect they will fix the sounds effects when Gran Turismo 7 hits store shelves but if they add in a patch that fixes at least the sounds for SOME cars, that would be great.

In my opinion, the 2 cars you mentioned just have overly dramatic distorted sounds, not a real good realistic engine sounds at all, but casual people easily like it, just like the way they like the sound of hollywood actors punching the bad guy with such overly big bassy sound *BHAGGGHH BHUGGGGHHH* where in real life the sound of punching is completely clean and different, just watch some real martial art videos to compare.

My point is, the GT6 sound is still as horrible as ever, and I partly blame the hardware limitations (mainly RAM size) it only has a 🤬 256MB of ram (it is the size of my PC RAM 14 years ago, where game was only 640x480 to 800x600 at that time), and also blame PD for the lack of effort to record proper engine sounds. but I still can understand how difficult it is to gather the cars and schedule the recording sessions one by one.. Race cars and expensive sports car are not easy to get you know. (and PD can't just steal engine sounds from youtube, I believe not)

 

[fet_thunderdome]

Maybe the RAM is mostly dedicated to graphics so remains less room for sounds. SOLUTION: standard cars will look bad as usual but will sound great!

 

[IneedSchool]

In my opinion, the 2 cars you mentioned just have overly dramatic distorted sounds, not a real good realistic engine sounds at all, but casual people easily like it, just like the way they like the sound of hollywood actors punching the bad guy with such overly big bassy sound *BHAGGGHH BHUGGGGHHH* where in real life the sound of punching is completely clean and different, just watch some real martial art videos to compare.

My point is, the GT6 sound is still as horrible as ever, and I partly blame the hardware limitations (mainly RAM size) it only has a 🤬 256MB of ram (it is the size of my PC RAM 14 years ago, where game was only 640x480 to 800x600 at that time), and also blame PD for the lack of effort to record proper engine sounds. but I still can understand how difficult it is to gather the cars and schedule the recording sessions one by one.. Race cars and expensive sports car are not easy to get you know. (and PD can't just steal engine sounds from youtube, I believe not)

These sounds are actually not that bad because it actually produces a rough sound. In my opinion, I'll take these sounds over the "vacuum-cleaner" sounds anyday, because at least it sounds great at high revs. And I don't know what you mean by "hollywood" because first of all in real life, the Mazda 787B is loud enough to make you deaf and the Redbull cars don't even exist in real life!

 

[PepeMickey]

Personally I like how the 787b sounds in GT5 over the one in Forza 4 and I'm such a fanboy of that car. The FM4 one sounds more consistent through the whole rev range though but the sound itself is bad, GT replicates the sound of the car better but once you go above 4500 rpm it becomes a vaccum cleaner. T10 went with the common "it sounds like a F1 car" mistake and destroyed the sound.

 

[Griffith500]

That doesn't really sound that great.

Hmm. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, as usual, but what if they'll change the way the current samples are processed/converted/outputted instead of giving us 1200 new sounds?
Is it possible for them to change the way they present the current samples to make them better or do they really have to have a huge patch with new sounds?

I'm more-or-less certain the old samples will be discarded altogether. The Redbull X-cars point to the future, a future without samples - one I've been banging several drums about for what seems like years now.

That's what I'm excited about, because I've been astounded that no-one has cottoned on to the fact that there are better ways of re-synthesising engine sounds in real time. Now I've heard something that is objectively better than anything I've created by myself (as I had hoped developers would do; it's hard work), and something I've demonstrated should be tuneable to sound more sedate, balanced and realistic (than the current X-cars), I'm somewhat (cautiously) optimistic.

Everyone else can remain a skeptic, that is perfectly reasonable; but there's being a skeptic and then there's inventing truths through ignorance: "PD are lazy", for instance. Because someone cannot conceive of what is actually going on, they can only make one particular conclusion, apparently; in reality, they should not be drawing conclusions at all. And that applies to any game, or anything outright. "Freedom of speech" has created several monsters, one of which is the apparent sense of entitlement to have your "opinion" carry as much weight as anyone else's, however ill-informed, illogical or insane.

2+ years later...
[...], that GT7's current sound are the way they are due the hardware limitations. I defended PD in the past, but i'll will not do this in the future anymore.

I'm not defending anything, simply imparting information. Please don't make the mistake the others did by putting words in my mouth.

The new sounds are real, so this is not the same situation as the last 10 years. That's just information; not "defence", not taking sides and certainly not "apologist".

 

[fet_thunderdome]

If x-cars are the future, why other new cars doesn't not sound good?

 

[Griffith500]

If x-cars are the future, why other new cars doesn't not sound good?

Ignoring the double negative, the fact that the X-cars have an obviously unique synthesis method, but still only have an exhaust layer and are way over amped (presumably to compensate for the single layer - again, see the demonstration I made), and that all the other cars still have the same old recycled samples, plus all the annoying sound streaming issues (drop outs, glitches etc.), it implies that there are other layers coming - certainly, at least, that the X-cars' sounds are not "complete" in some way.

The conclusion I've made is that they're having issues with dynamic sound stream switching (more layers means more "channels", so you have to select a sub-set of those to play back at any time - hardware limitations!), and when they solve that, they will switch all the cars over to the new method with that new, dynamic mixing.

Stated simply:
Most cars: old method, old mixing - exhaust layer only, plus whizzy engine - too few, too short samples!
X-cars: new method, old mixing - bespoke tuning of new exhaust synth for demonstration purposes (sneak preview)
New cars: recycled samples -> old method, old mixing. Every one can be compared to an existing car.

Update: new method, new mixing - likely mostly finished, possibly on-disc already.

 

[IneedSchool]

Personally I like how the 787b sounds in GT5 over the one in Forza 4 and I'm such a fanboy of that car. The FM4 one sounds more consistent through the whole rev range though but the sound itself is bad, GT replicates the sound of the car better but once you go above 4500 rpm it becomes a vaccum cleaner. T10 went with the common "it sounds like a F1 car" mistake and destroyed the sound.

To be honest, even though Forza wins in the sound department, the one exception is the 787B in Forza where it sounds like a retarded fly. I'm actually serious.

 

[fet_thunderdome]

Ignoring the double negative, the fact that the X-cars have an obviously unique synthesis method, but still only have an exhaust layer and are way over amped (presumably to compensate for the single layer - again, see the demonstration I made), and that all the other cars still have the same old recycled samples, plus all the annoying sound streaming issues (drop outs, glitches etc.), it implies that there are other layers coming - certainly, at least, that the X-cars' sounds are not "complete" in some way.

The conclusion I've made is that they're having issues with dynamic sound stream switching (more layers means more "channels", so you have to select a sub-set of those to play back at any time - hardware limitations!), and when they solve that, they will switch all the cars over to the new method with that new, dynamic mixing.

Stated simply:
Most cars: old method, old mixing - exhaust layer only, plus whizzy engine - too few, too short samples!
X-cars: new method, old mixing - bespoke tuning of new exhaust synth for demonstration purposes (sneak preview)
New cars: recycled samples -> old method, old mixing. Every one can be compared to an existing car.

Update: new method, new mixing - likely mostly finished, possibly on-disc already.

I have to suggest you to play some other game. GT sounds cannot really stand against any other competitor. Just too weak and no x-car can make me hope for a brighter future. They're SLIGHTLY better, but still doesn't feel like I'm racing.

 

[diegorborges]

Exactly 👍


If you want i can start using electrical blenders as a comparison, just to keep it a tad original

You guys exaggerate a lot. We know the sounds are far from perfect but there are good ones here and there.

If my blender ever sound like the Corvette C6 or the BMW M5 for example I would blend everyday.

C'mon. The jokes are getting old. And boring. And very annoying. There's some old members that doesn't even post on GT6 forums much, it's useless with all these stupid jokes... people don't discuss the important questions like they should.

Bad jokes & whining = constructive criticism

What Griffith does in this thread is what most of us should be trying: thinking before we post and trying to contribute with valid opinions and ideas...

"OMG PD sux, they're vacuum cleaners YO" doesn't help in anything.

 

[mister dog]

I think you missed the point of that meme there.

 

[diegorborges]

I think you missed the point of that meme there.

Nope, just check your latest posts, you just tried to be the badass with your blender joke... and btw, do you have the game? Do you play GT6?

 

[IneedSchool]

Nope, just check your latest posts, you just tried to be the badass with your blender joke... and btw, do you have the game? Do you play GT6?

You type the truth.

 

[Griffith500]

I have to suggest you to play some other game. GT sounds cannot really stand against any other competitor. Just too weak and no x-car can make me hope for a brighter future. They're SLIGHTLY better, but still doesn't feel like I'm racing.

Sorry, a non-sequitur says what?

 

[mister dog]

Nope, just check your latest posts, you just tried to be the badass with your blender joke... and btw, do you have the game? Do you play GT6?

Yes very badass to propose talking about a blender instead of vacuum cleaners, why they don't cast me for action movies i'll never know.

"Do you have GT6" is the weakest troll you can use to try to invalidate my opinion, you know damn well it has the exact same flaws as GT5, especially if this thread is about engine sounds... good try though kiddo 👍

 

[fet_thunderdome]

Sorry, a non-sequitur says what?

Less snob man, fly down to earth with us, miserable mortals. And by the way sorry for my English. That's not my native language.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

"OMG PD sux, they're vacuum cleaners YO" doesn't help in anything.

Saying that "there are good ones here and there" doesn't help either. Is the same line of thinking of Kaz himself, when he went saying that the "sounds are already too perfect".

The point is... people will make jokes and fun about the way that GT sounds because it's pretty much laughable.

Nobody, here, will stop that.

Griffith500 loves to say that disapointment with PD way of doing things comes in proportion of your expectations. So, let's apply that here, shaw we?

If you expect that people will praise a game that missed, for now, entirely sound quality, you'll get very disappointed.

Life is way too short to arguing about a racing game where the sounds aren't good enough saying they are and, yes, the blender comparisson is, still, very accurate.

Which is very sad.

 

[PepeMickey]

To be honest, even though Forza wins in the sound department, the one exception is the 787B in Forza where it sounds like a retarded fly. I'm actually serious.

Yes exactly, it's like a mosquito, there a few other cars that have the same issue in FM4 though, almost all high pitched V12s suffer from the same annoying mosquito-like sound and the loud as **** little hatchbacks are annoying too but oh well, they at least tried unlike PD with GT.