- 2,955
- Curitiba
Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 347,801 views
- 616
But it's true.
- 35,128
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
So I went to watch the replay thinking maybe I'll hear a trace of the old sounds but surprisingly One interesting thing about the Red Bull Sounds is that unlike the BMW V12 LMR, there is no trace of the sound in the replay or in the Data logger. They seem completely separate. I can't hear any trace of the Old sounds from GT5 in the replay and likewise, no trace of the GT6 sounds in the Data logger. I don't how that's even possible, but its really like night & day between the two.
- 8,704
Someone complained, almost immediately on its release, that the sound of the FT-1 in the Data Logger was "too smooth", so naturally I gave it a go myself. It uses filtered control data from the replay (so much less than the physics rate you get in-race) which causes a lot of the weirdness, and there is no localisation (spatial mixing) and extra effects.
But then I had the idea to try the Red Bull cars, knowing what I knew about the sounds they made; sure enough, the new components of the sound were missing, to be "replaced" by some awful-sounding samples. So far, so similar, but I also thought that these samples can't be heard in the game normally, but I was wrong (someone else had already told me that they thought there was some other sound, though).
Slightly more recently, and at the risk of deafening myself, I turned the volume right up with headphones after hearing some strange noises in the middle of the rev range of the Junior. Using H-pattern, you can get the engine to tick-over slower than 2k rpm, and sure enough, that's where the samples are most audible. The actual exhaust sound that makes all the noise is definitely synthetic, and it cuts out around 600 rpm - at that speed, it sounds awfully similar to some of the things I've tried (sort of "puffy", steam-engine-like), and there is no hint of the crunchiness you get with trying to pitch shift that slowly.
The samples, though, add a bit of texture around the idle speed. The problem with idle instabilities in a real engine is that it's a dynamic part of how the engine runs, and is caused by interactions of various acoustic, inertial and control aspects, distributed throughout the engine, that it's very difficult to actually "simulate". So an idle loop at the bottom end can fill that in.
However, the other samples are still there as well; as you progress through the rev range, you can hear them pitch shifting, clashing against the exhaust sound. It makes the samples sound even worse (and is a nice demonstration for those who might otherwise think pitch shifting is fine; I can't stand it now I've heard the alternatives.)
So the Red Bull cars have the new exhaust sound and traditional samples "playing" at the same time. Quite interesting.
I've not heard the V12 LMR, but I expect the difference is largely attributable to the exhaust flow noise effect that was introduced with GT5 Prologue (and the spatialisation I already mentioned). The BMW VGT suffers from that particularly, as it has twin exhausts; so the same sampled sound is played from each exhaust and the flow noise (modulated by the sound coming from the exhaust, i.e. the samples) is also duplicated at each location. So you get double flow noise (independent sounds / sources per pipe would not "double up" so much, they'd interleave better), made worse by the fact that the samples already have flow noise in them, and you also get the comb filter effect from the doubled sample sound.
This is clearly a provision for the new sound method; each pipe can easily get its own sound and the flow noise won't be so obnoxious. They could potentially, partially, "fix" the issue by delaying one pipe slightly, but it really needs a totally independent sound. They could turn off the flow noise, but you'd lose a large portion of the spatial character, making it sound dull in a different way.
great work
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
. First time I saw that video I played the end over and over where the engine gradually fades out on the back straight. Can't wait!!
- 35,128
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
So I did abit more digging around in the Data Logger and here's a few more I did;
Renault Megane Trophy '11: Surprisingly, this is actually not far off the real life sound. If anything, it appears to be higher pitched (which I can only guess is a result of the method they were using for these samples). If I can get my PVR to work again and record a video of that, I could put it in Vegas and pitch it down and it'll be a perfect match.
Honda HSV-010 GT Base Model '12: In replay, the onboard sound and the outside sound are separate but interestingly in the Data Logger, they are actually playing at the same time and at a much clearer, raspier quality.
Audi R8 LMS Ultra '12: As it turns out, the proper sound is actually present and clear but its slightly overshadowed by what appears to be a very synthetic layer. In the replay itself however, its hardly audible.
Also, has anyone here seen the video with the leaked GT-R GT3? If you listen carefully to it, it sounds nothing like the GTR GT3s currently in the game.
Granted this is solely based on one car and I'm not ready to fully rule it out, but perhaps there is some sort of sound update inbound? Just seems interesting to have essentially the same car from the same year with a sound totally different from the other.
Renault Megane Trophy '11: Surprisingly, this is actually not far off the real life sound. If anything, it appears to be higher pitched (which I can only guess is a result of the method they were using for these samples). If I can get my PVR to work again and record a video of that, I could put it in Vegas and pitch it down and it'll be a perfect match.
Honda HSV-010 GT Base Model '12: In replay, the onboard sound and the outside sound are separate but interestingly in the Data Logger, they are actually playing at the same time and at a much clearer, raspier quality.
Audi R8 LMS Ultra '12: As it turns out, the proper sound is actually present and clear but its slightly overshadowed by what appears to be a very synthetic layer. In the replay itself however, its hardly audible.
Also, has anyone here seen the video with the leaked GT-R GT3? If you listen carefully to it, it sounds nothing like the GTR GT3s currently in the game.
Granted this is solely based on one car and I'm not ready to fully rule it out, but perhaps there is some sort of sound update inbound? Just seems interesting to have essentially the same car from the same year with a sound totally different from the other.
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(no improvement, more likely getting worse)
- 8,704
Nice work RACECAR. The HSV-010 is clearly set up in game to have that "polar" sound quality by emphasising one source over the other. I'd thought perhaps the Data Logger plays only the exhaust sound but it seems you've found that it plays both the "engine" and exhaust sounds. I'll have to listen to those specific cars though and compare notes, because it's not behaving in the way I would have expected (always nice!).
That GT-R has one of the "generic rally car" sample sets, a four cylinder sound. One of the previous GT-spec GT-Rs had a mix of crossplane V8 and flatplane V8 samples, which was interesting. They are just placeholders, supposedly, so I guess we all hope an update isn't far away.
That GT-R has one of the "generic rally car" sample sets, a four cylinder sound. One of the previous GT-spec GT-Rs had a mix of crossplane V8 and flatplane V8 samples, which was interesting. They are just placeholders, supposedly, so I guess we all hope an update isn't far away.
- 2,792
Far out. I just did the Redbull junior over and over to buy the Team Oreca SRT Viper (one of my favourite GT cars since GT2) only to find that it sounds nothing like a Viper!
It used to sound ok but PD seem to have switched the sound file for GT6? And why does the the M3 GT2 sound like an electric car? Honestly GT is a mess when it comes to sound
It used to sound ok but PD seem to have switched the sound file for GT6? And why does the the M3 GT2 sound like an electric car? Honestly GT is a mess when it comes to sound
- 35,128
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 35,128
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I never even said it was close. Can someone not disagree about the sound without having things like that thrown at them? I'm well aware the sounds on this game aren't accurate and I'm not saying they are, I simply feel in my opinion that this particular sound is a few tweaks away from being accurate.
Sorry I'm not bashing it or throwing overused joke at it like people like to do, but I don't see how it'll make anything work faster.
well i heard it as well, both (m4/bmw vgt) share a decent amount of samples with the nissan gtr(r34 gtr sample gt3+gt5/6 r35 samples with a tad of noise+pitch added)
first thought i hear ghosts and switched to headphones but they are clearly are sample mix of some gtrs and stuff.
tested it with the original sony wireless headset/5.1 home cinema and some mid end in ear philips s1. all with no equalizers enabled(except for the natural sound coloring of the av receiver dacs/sony wireless stuff).
same goes with many other cars where pd just takes the same samples over and over again.
ok worse than bmw z4 gt3/m3 gt is nothing, but who the hell in pd got the idea that a gt3 r34 sample(must be their most loved one by the sheer number of cars using it) + a low rev v8 sample will fit together well...
imho i think the more quality(fidelity) or power a sound system has, the more sounds gt6 worse.
on my elac bs 63.2 satellites( tech specs here: http://www.elac.com/en/products/Line_60_2/BS_63_2/ ) hand made in my hometown it gets even worse than on the headphones(sony ones are crap, philips is ok quality wise) you can even here the samples not really blending in with revs, or even rev ranges with no sound at all except the normal idle loop.
but i have to admit, its the common standard, many of the videos here are sounding lifeless and flat(nfs), not mastered well(raceroom) or just like gt6(forza, every car sounds like a v8 with more or less engine displacement.
and yes i own a pc with decend sound hardware(xonar d2x) for nfs/raceroom+raceroom wip multiplayer closed beta/gtr/race07/etc and a xbox 360 for forza and guess what, even a ps3 slim for gt6
.another good example is how many racecars have the original gt3 toyota gtone sample.... it is just crazy
and my little hopes to project cars are so little, as they didn´t even get the doppler effect(or shift) not right, well at least not all cars share the same 1-2 dozen samples.
so in fact pd can´t do sounds for ****, that they are no way near the real ones is a yet complete different topic.
- 35,128
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Are you listening to these through the Data Logger or the replays themselves? That's where I've been really starting to pick up on things I didn't notice before.
Trust me when I say I too am miffed by that. It has to be said though that the R34 sample actually goes all the way back to GT2 where I first heard it on all the JGTC GT-Rs as well as the Nissan R390 GT1s
Really? Only one I know of using it is the BMW V12 LMR. Guess I'll need to buy more race cars and see.
- 11,775
- Marin County
I wonder if anyone could test to see if the X2014 JR really is implementing a sound simulation vs a sound sample. If it is simulating it in real time, all else being equal, it should put a bigger load on the processor. Is there a way to monitor the PS3's CPU load? One could run a control against an identical circumstance but a different car. Such as same track, same track settings, and to eliminate most other CPU calculations just free revving the car while stationary. Perhaps there isn't a way to moniter the PS3 vitals, but it would just a thought I had. (I don't currently have a PS3 here, so I cannot)
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 676
- Toronto, CAN
- Guynemer27
Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? this is the goal you want to reach? geez... then you really have very low standards!!! sorry but this sounds like (cannot say it here but you know what and it's very smelly) ...
In the meantime the Great sound guru Anthony Monteil at Simbin gave us another chef-d'oeuvre with this symphony of racing sound experience called the Audi 90 IMSA (amazing trackside sound at 2:02)
- 1,211
- Earth
- TheLordSnowden
- LordSnowden
More than 4k posts, nearly double of any other thread...
You'd think this could/would get some priority.
It's not a memory issue, they can down sample to the same footprint or merge Doppler effects. Its a labor intensive one... One they never planned for... Audio in games is quite complex compared to games 10 years ago...
You'd think this could/would get some priority.
It's not a memory issue, they can down sample to the same footprint or merge Doppler effects. Its a labor intensive one... One they never planned for... Audio in games is quite complex compared to games 10 years ago...
- 2,082
- Ohio
- SilverSylphide19
I lost hope in Polyphony the moment they said there would be a sound update before the game even came out. Im sick and tired of their fake promises and while ive supported them up until GT5 i cant take it anymore, the series is awful and nothing has changed. I wouldnt be surprised at all if GT7 still has crappy sounds and the pathetic "Standard" cars. It also doesnt help that most of the cars seem to share the same sound samples.
My god that sounds terrible in every way.
My god that sounds terrible in every way.
- 16,045
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
PD has a generic sound for each engine (V8's, 4 Cylinders, Straight 6's, V6's) so I though it would be a good idea to edit those generic sounds. I'll give you an example-if a V8 Supercar was put in, they could basically use the Falcon V8 sound and tamper with it slightly to create the ideal note.
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