Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[PepeMickey]

Cars in Forza sound like they have engines and in most cases the right configuration too and it's not entirely impossible in real life for cars to sound that loud.

GT has cars that don't sound like cars and cars with completely wrong sound samples and the ones with remotely recognizable notes are butchered at high rpms and lack intake noise and other important details.

No matter how you put it, Forza has better sounds period. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant (I don't like most of them), compare each car that is present in both games and there's no way you would prefer the GT sample over the Forza sample.

 

[Haitauer]

Havent participated too much to this on (and on) going (nowhere) sound discussion. Just please people separate "realistic sounds" from "good sounds".

Good sounds is what forza has.

Realistic sounds - well i thing GT6 might be closer to that. Just listen the stock street cars (which many of the GTs cars are) driving by and you mostly hear the noise from the tires and wind - only occasional sewing machine like sound when they accelerate hard.. Not even too many of the race cars sound that impressive if you see them going round a track ALONE. Its the noise/mix of 20 of them that sounds so great.

that said I would prefer Forza - even though it might have nothing to do with realism. This just might be a case of "overly realistic" by PD. They just have chosen this way of the two. I think they could make it sound like Forza, but if they really want it to sound realistic, then the hardware might very well be the problem. Separate soundfile for each car etc. .. not gonna happen.

THAT said - I still prefer GT6 as a whole.

 

[Tenacious D]

Cars in Forza sound like they have engines and in most cases the right configuration too and it's not entirely impossible in real life for cars to sound that loud.

Oh yes it is. A stock Beetle that sounds like a race car? Possible? Sure, whatever...

We had a VERY brief discussion about the race car-like sounds of all the stock cars in F4 on the official T10 Forza boards, and were politely ignored, except for a few fans who informed us that louder was better.

I wish you guys would just be honest and admit that realism isn't important, louder than hell is.

 

[Encyclopedia]

^Problem is Gran Turismo is neither.

 

[mister dog]

Oh yes it is. A stock Beetle that sounds like a race car? Possible? Sure, whatever...

We had a VERY brief discussion about the race car-like sounds of all the stock cars in F4 on the official T10 Forza boards, and were politely ignored, except for a few fans who informed us that louder was better.

I wish you guys would just be honest and admit that realism isn't important, louder than hell is.

Let's see, stock beetle in FM5:



Stock beetle in real life:



Sounds spot on to me. Frankly i think the line that the engine sounds in FM are too loud and unnatural because of it, is the only thing GT fans can use to counter people laughing with the hoovers, blenders and what not PD uses.

 

[PepeMickey]

Oh yes it is. A stock Beetle that sounds like a race car? Possible? Sure, whatever...

We had a VERY brief discussion about the race car-like sounds of all the stock cars in F4 on the official T10 Forza boards, and were politely ignored, except for a few fans who informed us that louder was better.

I wish you guys would just be honest and admit that realism isn't important, louder than hell is.

Remove the muffler and any car will sound 30 times louder than stock and as throaty and angry as a racecar. Older cars that didn't have a muffler to begin with are louder than modern cars.

However, it's impossible in real life for a Sauber c9 to sound like a hairdryer no matter what you do to it. Same for the V12 Lambos.

In Forza, different engine configurations sound like they should. You need to understand that liking a game's sound isn't the same as thinking it is realistic. I've been complaining about PCARS sounds for the past months because I think the game could sound a lot better but almost everyone seems to be ok with it. I want realism but when I look at GT I can't really complain. If we were comparing AC to PCARS and R3E to Forza then yes, Forza is the worst one of the bunch but we are talking about GT here and nearly every modern game out there sounds better. It doesn't matter how fake or exaggerated it is, it will still be closer to real life than GT, that's how bad GT's sound is.

You need to understand that it's GT the one that needs to catch up, others are doing just fine and will probably get better as new ways of producing sounds start being implemented.

 

[Tenacious D]

Let's see, stock beetle in FM5:

[youtube]

Stock beetle in real life:

[youtube]

Sounds spot on to me. Frankly i think the line that the engine sounds in FM are too loud and unnatural because of it, is the only thing GT fans can use to counter people laughing with the hoovers, blenders and what not PD uses.

Listen, you clearly missed that I was discussing Forza 4. A few of us were discussing Forza 4. Which does indeed use F-18 samples for all the cars. Gee, it seems like if the sound critics can make things up about Gran Turismo's car sounds, I can too, amirite?

Note also that the system Forza 5 is running on is essentially a gaming PC with 8GB of ram, a quantum leap in power and capacity over the XB360, so if Forza 5 didn't sound a little better, that would be an occasion to point fingers. And how many cars are in the game again??

Look how I've argued the sound issues with GT5 and 6:

I'm personally okay with the sounds in those games. They have improved, contrary to many critics' opinions on the matter. Does that make them good enough, no need for improvement? No. But is it okay to completely make things up about the quality of the sounds by saying that they all sound like vacuum cleaners, pencil sharpeners, a hoard of angry hamsters or whatever? The answer to this should be painfully obvious.

In fact, I have to wonder about the staff here who seldom will call out any grotesque exaggeration of any criticism of Gran Turismo, while a few of them routinely throw the AUP in the faces of fans who don't go a bit farther in trying to counter some rather ridiculous statements. Another reason why some have grown tired of this place and abandoned it.

But I should realize that a complaint thread isn't exactly the place to hope to find a balanced discussion. And who knows, maybe even though critics will sometimes tell boldfaced untruths, things will get changed in the upcoming iterations, in spite of it all.

Remove the muffler and any car will sound 30 times louder than stock and as throaty and angry as a racecar.

Oh good Lord...

 

[Tenacious D]

Well poop, I think I need coffee...

 

[mister dog]

Listen, you clearly missed that I was discussing Forza 4. A few of us were discussing Forza 4. Which does indeed use F-18 samples for all the cars. Gee, it seems like if the sound critics can make things up about Gran Turismo's car sounds, I can too, amirite?

Note also that the system Forza 5 is running on is essentially a gaming PC with 8GB of ram, a quantum leap in power and capacity over the XB360, so if Forza 5 didn't sound a little better, that would be an occasion to point fingers. And how many cars are in the game again??

Ok let's look at FM4:



To me the sample seems the same as such the right one, but FM4's dampening of sounds inside the cockpit is inferior making the sounds seem a lot louder.

Look how I've argued the sound issues with GT5 and 6:

I'm personally okay with the sounds in those games. They have improved, contrary to many critics' opinions on the matter. Does that make them good enough, no need for improvement? No. But is it okay to completely make things up about the quality of the sounds by saying that they all sound like vacuum cleaners, pencil sharpeners, a hoard of angry hamsters or whatever? The answer to this should be painfully obvious.

The only thing i heard which sounded a bit better than before is the new fantasy red bull car, apart from that i have heard 0 improvement over GT5. I recognize the same old samples all around to be honest.

In fact, I have to wonder about the staff here who seldom will call out any grotesque exaggeration of any criticism of Gran Turismo, while a few of them routinely throw the AUP in the faces of fans who don't go a bit farther in trying to counter some rather ridiculous statements. Another reason why some have grown tired of this place and abandoned it.

But I should realize that a complaint thread isn't exactly the place to hope to find a balanced discussion. And who knows, maybe even though critics will sometimes tell boldfaced untruths, things will get changed in the upcoming iterations, in spite of it all.
Oh good Lord...

I don't think people's comparisons of those sounds to sounds they recognize in real life when for example cleaning the house, or grinding meet for bolognese is an offence of the AUP

 

[RACECAR]

Don't mind me.

 

[Tenacious D]

Ok let's look at FM4:

[youtube]

To me the sample seems the same as such the right one, but FM4's dampening of sounds inside the cockpit is inferior making the sounds seem a lot louder.

If you really believe that there's no real difference between Forza 4's Beetle and F5's, you have issues, that's all I can say. And interior damping isn't the issue. If that's not what, dare I say, you're driving at, then I'm not sure what the heck you're saying.

The only thing i heard which sounded a bit better than before is the new fantasy red bull car, apart from that i have heard 0 improvement over GT5. I recognize the same old samples all around to be honest.

Then either you're fibbing or you again have issues.

I don't think people's comparisons of those sounds to sounds they recognize in real life when for example cleaning the house, or grinding meet for bolognese is an offence of the AUP

Okay champ, I can see that this discussion is about over...

 

[mister dog]

If you really believe that there's no real difference between Forza 4's Beetle and F5's, you have issues, that's all I can say. And interior damping isn't the issue. If that's not what, dare I say, you're driving at, then I'm not sure what the heck you're saying.

Yes i have many issues, but still i'm quite sure the sample is the same and interior damping causes the difference.

Eummm.. weren't we talking of improvements of GT5 to 6?

Okay champ, I can see that this discussion is about over...

Close the door on your way out!

 

[Spitty]

Hmm, how do I start this... my first post on GTP, hi guys.
First of all: I'm a fan of both Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport, I have all their games in my shelf, and I am disappointed in both of their latest titles.

Now people in this thread like to compare FM to GT sounds or to their real life counterparts, most of them make Forza look good, but as a fanatic about engine sounds, I easilly find flaws in certain cars from Forza, which stop me from driving them entirely. Forza 5 probably has the most annoying downshifting sound distortions I have ever heard, let's start with the Aston Martin DBR9 and the Mazda 787b:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mg_vgPIbvNk#t=70



I call these the dying birds. And it's a shame that Turn10 had the oportunity to record the real Mazda with their modern technology and in the end fail so badly at mixing these sounds properly.

With Gran Turismo I don't even know if Polyphony recorded any engine sounds after the first couple games, it would be great if somebody has some info about that.
The most annoying aspects of GT5/6 sounds is the immediate pitch change between gear shifts, unless you play with a H-shifter, it's especially weird when you drive a car that has a manual gearbox in reality.
And the lack of intake noise, which brings out the soul and passion of most naturally aspired engines out there.
So much for now, don't wanna make this too long hehe.

 

[PepeMickey]

Oh good Lord...

What? is it not true? in fact, the Forza sounds are actually quiet in comparison.

Hmm, how do I start this... my first post on GTP, hi guys.
First of all: I'm a fan of both Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport, I have all their games in my shelf, and I am disappointed in both of their latest titles.

Now people in this thread like to compare FM to GT sounds or to their real life counterparts, most of them make Forza look good, but as a fanatic about engine sounds, I easilly find flaws in certain cars from Forza, which stop me from driving them entirely. Forza 5 probably has the most annoying downshifting sound distortions I have ever heard, let's start with the Aston Martin DBR9 and the Mazda 787b:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mg_vgPIbvNk#t=70



I call these the dying birds. And it's a shame that Turn10 had the oportunity to record the real Mazda with their modern technology and in the end fail so badly at mixing these sounds properly.

With Gran Turismo I don't even know if Polyphony recorded any engine sounds after the first couple games, it would be great if somebody has some info about that.
The most annoying aspects of GT5/6 sounds is the immediate pitch change between gear shifts, unless you play with a H-shifter, it's especially weird when you drive a car that has a manual gearbox in reality.
And the lack of intake noise, which brings out the soul and passion of most naturally aspired engines out there.
So much for now, don't wanna make this too long hehe.

Yep, I can't stand the 787B in FM4 and most of the high-end V12s are very annoying too. In the case of the 787B I actually like the GT sample a lot better.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The 787 sounds more like an F1 car than a rotary

 

[Tenacious D]

Yes i have many issues, but still i'm quite sure the sample is the same and interior damping causes the difference.

Just... not even in the same universe, obviously. The difference is piercingly obvious to me.

Eummm.. weren't we talking of improvements of GT5 to 6?

Well, this is what threw me. See, this has been discussed a LOT, about when PD was going to discuss when their awesome new sound engine was going to be ready. Like in this thread, like a LOT, and we we waiting for some word. And I'm pretty sure you didn't just join a few days ago or something...

Oh, wait a minute. I see what you did there. Had me going for a while.

I mean, only someone dying from tinnitus would confuse some of these sounds for home appliances or feisty war gerbils. Okay, ya got me flat footed. Anyway, I'm gonna crawl the boards for a while and then go play with my GT mobiles, and you do... whatever you do with those golden ears of yours. Not sure I wanna know...

By the way, not really sure what to make of that weird 787 video above...

 

[Spitty]

The samples actually are the same, the main difference is that the XB1 can handle uncompressed audio, then there is some different mixing of course. It's not like they recorded the cars again.
Forza 4 had compressed and equalized audio.

 

[MasamuneDate]

This thread isn't about GT vs Forza, people, cut it out. It doesn't matter if Forza doesn't have good sounds either, Gran Turismo sounds are complete garbage, period. Therefore, this issue with the game MUST be adressed by Polyphony Digital in the future, simple.

Every thread about GT now seems to turn into an one-on-one battle against one of it's competitors. Just to show how flawed the game is.

 

[Spitty]

By the way, not really sure what to make of that weird 787 video above...

It's supposed to annoy you.
My intention was to showcase that all car games have flaws, none have real sounds.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Enthusia was the closest, IMO, to the 787B but there is definitely some weirdness on that game too. It's almost CVT sounding, which is weird.



At least the downshifts sound good.

For some reason the GT3 version sounds better than 4, 5, and 6. Less strange distortion. It's still present, but it sounds like the car has genuine ignition misfire on 4, 5, and 6

 

[avens]

To be honest it would be funnier to compare the GT series to ps2 and earlier, as we know for sure the GT series is the worst sounding of the current generation by far no matter what it is compared with.

 

[zepha121]

The 787 sounds more like an F1 car than a rotary

No it doesn't, the sound is pretty much spot on.

 

[RACECAR]

No it doesn't, the sound is pretty much spot on.

Not really, not to my ears anyway. The pitch in the higher revs is too high, much higher then the real car in that video.

 

[Chippy569]

Not really, not to my ears anyway. The pitch in the higher revs is too high, much higher then the real car in that video.

Like all very expensively-restored one-off racecars on demonstration events, the driver is not going flat out to redline in the video Zepha posted.

 

[Flying Kiwi]

For all those keen on promoting sound improvements on GT6 please visit here... (and "like" to count your vote)

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/sound-update.309334/


There is hope that Kazunori Yamauchi (PD) will pay attention to this Q&A Forum

 

[another_jakhole]

Please!

Without better "sounds", the entire virtual reality will be skewed beyond fixation. Don't do this to us! /sarcasm

 

[R.S]

Beetles in real life are pretty loud.
I used to live in a street with an old lady up the road who had a beetle. She would make that thing scream down the road. You'd know it was coming from several blocks away, even if it was only doing 40km/h.

Old cars also have basically no insulation to the cabin and very hard frames/mounts so the sounds would be loud in the cabin.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

it's as bad as iRenting in the cost to get it all.

By iRenting, I assume you mean iRacing? There's a pretty big difference from iRacing to GT. Yes, the cost of iRacing is very high but, you get 4 MASSIVE updates a year, perfect tracks down to the millimeter, and fantastic online racing. At least they aren't being PD and pulling a trick out of EA's book in reselling GT5.2 as GT6.

 

[SSQES]

By iRenting, I assume you mean iRacing? There's a pretty big difference from iRacing to GT. Yes, the cost of iRacing is very high but, you get 4 MASSIVE updates a year, perfect tracks down to the millimeter, and fantastic online racing. At least they aren't being PD and pulling a trick out of EA's book in reselling GT5.2 as GT6.

4 big updates a year? Even PD do more. The online racing (if you find a good lobby) in gt is very good too. The new tracks are very well modellised. And you don't have to pay every month to play it.

 

[Griffith500]

It goes to show that it's not just the samples that matter, but the way you control the playback of those samples also. Because the two interact and contribute to the overall sound, something I've been saying for a long time. It was PD's particular attention to the control of the sounds in GT5 Prologue that first hinted to me they were working on improvements.

The distortion in FM5's gear changes is actually the result of a sound control update rate that doesn't properly capture the way the player's control / physics inputs change over time. So you get nasty aliasing. It's common with any game powered by Fmod, because, given the way its built, it's a pain to change the tick rate and, more importantly, decouple it from the graphics rate. That's just the way most games have been made the last 30 years, everything worked on the graphics rate (physics was the first to be decoupled for obvious reasons). Eventually, (game) software system design will catch up to modern practices, and it'll all be decoupled and optimised per sub-system.


Also, a rotary should sound very different in the details; it's tuned in a different way from poppet valved piston engines, and the acoustic effects (controlling combustion chamber filling and discharging, and hence any noise that comes out of that chamber in any direction) are different as a result. Superficially, the peak to peak pressure traces are much higher, because the ports open much quicker, so rotaries have a much more pronounced "tearing" quality to their sounds; but other differences in the way the chamber volume changes, and the port volume and runners interact are also different, adding yet more unique colour. An F1 (~20k rpm V8) sound is far too smooth, despite being raw in itself.

It would have been interesting if sleeve valves could have been tweaked for high rpm use!