Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[Chippy569]

The distortion in FM5's gear changes is actually the result of a sound control update rate that doesn't properly capture the way the player's control / physics inputs change over time. So you get nasty aliasing.

this part is right.

It's common with any game powered by Fmod, because, given the way its built, it's a pain to change the tick rate and, more importantly, decouple it from the graphics rate.

this part is very false.


Anyway, this thread desperately needs some consistency in terminology, so allow me to propose some thoughts.

Game sound is comprised of two parts: the samples, and the system that picks which and how to play the samples. While the two are clearly related, it's important when criticizing sound to address which part your complaint is about. This is then glued together through a mix.

In the case of this thread, the "samples" part is the easiest to quantify. If you were to only listen to the audio source, the actual .wav files, would it sound "good" and "right" - you can measure thi in terms of accuracy or fidelity or detail or words like that. You can also talk about these qualitatively "ie some say the quality of the samples in GT is "washy" or "vacuumy"). You can also consider the amount of samples, or the depth of sound (that video i made some hundred pages ago now showcased why I think GT needs more samples per car). Samples are the spices that make up the flavor of the sound, i guess you could say. But ultimately samples can be swapped and changed very easily. What's more important to nail is...

...the physics driving the sounds. For car engine sounds there are things like RPM range, or engine inertia (ie how fast it revs) or driveline flex or shift behaviors or throttle or load-based dynamics. Many people may say things "sound bad" but when prodded the statement really is about the physics being bad -- high quality, high fidelity, high accuracy samples played in a poor physics environment will still sound wrong (imagine a 1960's muscle car that can rev as quickly as an F1 car, and shift as quickly too -- it's just weird). Sticking with the food analogy, this is the recipe for the sound.

There's also the consideration of the mix, which is how sounds all play together, to provide a polished experience. Audio mixes can happen at all kinds of depths. The game will have an overall mix, but each piece can have a separate submix. For example, the car itself probably has a mix among its components (like exhaust vs. engine), and the components might even have their own mix ("race" exhaust vs. "stock" exhaust). Usually when you have a critique about one sound in the game versus another (ie the wind noise is too loud compared to the car) that's a concern of mix.

Anyway, for the sake of this thread before you say that something "sounds bad" or "sounds good" or "sounds better than xyz" try to think a little bit further about specifically *what* sounds that way to you, or what the cause of the bad sound is. I bring this up because many posts in the last 10 pages or so have been people arguing about one component of one game having one of the three above parts good or bad, and someone refuting by talking about a different part.

 

[mister dog]

See, this has been discussed a LOT, about when PD was going to discuss when their awesome new sound engine was going to be ready. Like in this thread, like a LOT, and we we waiting for some word. And I'm pretty sure you didn't just join a few days ago or something...

The awesome new sound engine is only based on one of Kaz's vague statements (yes the placeholder one about GT6's sounds). PD have been saying "they've been looking into it", and "this and that might happen", but it never did. I do believe though sounds will finally be updated for GT7 as they just can't permit to continue with the ones they have at the moment, they've pulled that card long enough (same with porting standards).

 

[Griffith500]

this part is right.

this part is very false.

Well, no, it's easy to change the numbers. But that has knock-on effects for any software system designed to run its sub-systems synchronously. Which is practically every game.

EDIT: Plus, there are times when you want to run different parts of the sound engine itself asynchronously. The mixing matrix doesn't need updating at the physics rate, for instance.

 

[Johnnypenso]

4 big updates a year? Even PD do more. The online racing (if you find a good lobby) in gt is very good too. The new tracks are very well modellised. And you don't have to pay every month to play it.

You're not familiar with iRacing are you? Comparing PD's updates with iRacing's updates is like comparing a restaurant menu with War and Peace. If you have a couple of hours, make a sandwich, crack open a beer read through these build notes. Clear, concise and incredibly user friendly. Online racing in GT is terrible, even in most good lobbies, unless you are with a group where you know everyone and they know you.

 

[SSQES]

You're not familiar with iRacing are you? Comparing PD's updates with iRacing's updates is like comparing a restaurant menu with War and Peace. If you have a couple of hours, make a sandwich, crack open a beer read through these build notes. Clear, concise and incredibly user friendly. Online racing in GT is terrible, even in most good lobbies, unless you are with a group where you know everyone and they know you.

I am not very familiar with iRacing. I must admit, the build notes are very clear and very detailled. I just don't like how everybody tell how GT sucks and how any other game is awesome. iRacing is really expansive, 12 dollars per track (over 50 available), 50 dollars to play 1 year, 12 dollars a car. GT is probably less fun or less realistic racing, but for 40 dollars, i think it's good enough.
Sorry for the offtopic.

 

[Tenacious D]

The awesome new sound engine is only based on one of Kaz's vague statements (yes the placeholder one about GT6's sounds). PD have been saying "they've been looking into it", and "this and that might happen", but it never did.

Erm... memo: GT6 has been out less than six months. That's not a lot of "ever."

However, I agree with the naysayers that GT6 is pushing Cell so hard that I'm really dubious that any serious improvements like a big new sound build or Forza-level damage will be possible, unless PD reserved a lot of resources for that. And with all the improvements between graphics and physics, I'm doubtful. GT7 is going to be made for a PS4 which is equivalent to a pretty serious gaming PC, far better than me or my friends currently own, so let's see what happens then.

By the way, gonna refuse to race on any Standard tracks?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Also, a rotary should sound very different in the details; it's tuned in a different way from poppet valved piston engines, and the acoustic effects (controlling combustion chamber filling and discharging, and hence any noise that comes out of that chamber in any direction) are different as a result. Superficially, the peak to peak pressure traces are much higher, because the ports open much quicker, so rotaries have a much more pronounced "tearing" quality to their sounds; but other differences in the way the chamber volume changes, and the port volume and runners interact are also different, adding yet more unique colour. An F1 (~20k rpm V8) sound is far too smooth, despite being raw in itself.

It would have been interesting if sleeve valves could have been tweaked for high rpm use!

I live for that MG42-esque tearing noise. It's especially prominent in peripheral port motors. For those who don't know, the intake and exhaust ports on a peripheral port engine can be upwards of two inches in diameter.

Such CFM. So rotations.

Nice 'tearing' 13b-pp


This might be a little off topic. I love Wankels.

 

[Mulan]

Wish all could compare against Drive Club. Feels like it is the new standard.

 

[Spitty]

Wish all could compare against Drive Club. Feels like it is the new standard.

Not sure if trolling, or serious.

 

[Mulan]

Not sure if trolling, or serious.

No trolling, but there is nice sounds
there that i havent heard so good anywhere else. So if GT is to go somewhere then i would be happy if they went towards that.

 

[Marqus]

Not sure if trolling, or serious.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Mulan]

Also it gives an idea what PS4 can do. So hardware is not the problem.
If PD has the right methods for simulating sound then i think we finally may get the real deal.
Perhaps he will choose to answer more about this in Q&A if he chooses the most liked questions.

 

[Spitty]

That particular trailer isn't gameplay, we don't know how that will be implemented.
The recent gameplay vids sounded weak, especially the Zonda R.

 

[ScottPuss20]

No it doesn't, the sound is pretty much spot on.

That sounds more like it

 

[ScottPuss20]

I found out that the start-up sounds in GT are very accurate on many cars. My theory is that PD has the correct exhaust sounds, but haven't found a way to implement them into the game yet. I might be wrong, but I say this because several cars at the launch (at Ascari) are in the game, so how can they not record the sounds?

 

[Kamuifanboy]

If they say that they've upgraded the graphics for GT7, then there will probably be no sound updates. They'll probably use the increased level of graphics as an excuse as to why the sounds haven't been updated.

I honestly wouldn't mind them downgrading to 720p level of graphics in pursuit of more realistic sounds.

 

[ScottPuss20]

They need to balance out the two

 

[mister dog]

If they say that they've upgraded the graphics for GT7, then there will probably be no sound updates. They'll probably use the increased level of graphics as an excuse as to why the sounds haven't been updated.

That would be over the top, they really can't permit that anymore on next gen consoles; that would be stretching it way too far. PD copy pasted those ancient assets (sounds, standard cars, race format) as much as they could already hoping the fanboys wouldn't mind, but i'm sure they won't be that stupid to try and pull it off once again on PS4.

 

[Harry1987]

That would be over the top, they really can't permit that anymore on next gen consoles; that would be stretching it way too far. PD copy pasted those ancient assets (sounds, standard cars, race format) as much as they could already hoping the fanboys wouldn't mind, but i'm sure they won't be that stupid to try and pull it off once again on PS4.

they did it the last 4 gt editions, and gt5 spec 2 was just a wider bandwith version of older samples, so i bet they will do it again and the gt6 sound update maybe is just another bandwith enhancement.
and yes i think pd lost focus on quality long ago, and so jus doesn´t see the prob. just look at fukushima attitude off the Japanese goverment/atomic ministry:
there is nothing wrong even when everyone see there is something wrong.

thats a part of japanese culture.

 

[Samus]

Comparing sounds on a video game to the Government and how they deal with nuclear disasters is a bit much.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

Comparing sounds on a video game to the Government and how they deal with nuclear disasters is a bit much.

It is, but it isn't. He is entirely correct in his statement.

 

[Johnnypenso]

there is nothing wrong even when everyone see there is something wrong.
thats a part of japanese every government's culture.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Eager Snake]

That particular trailer isn't gameplay, we don't know how that will be implemented.
The recent gameplay vids sounded weak, especially the Zonda R.

I've just read an interview from a well-known spanish website about DriveClub, and one of the most commented things about the game was the in-game sound. According to them, it was SPECTACULAR.

They even had the oportunity to go to a private garage to check out the real cars, like the Berlinetta F12, and then try the same car in the game, and again, they say it was spectacular.

 

[Mulan]

There’s a team dedicated to hooking up 16 individual microphones onto each of the actual 50 cars in the game to have the most authentic engine sounds inside and outside of the car.
(taken from trusted reviews)

Dont know how PD does it but this seems like timeconsuming. Of course if it takes 6months to model a car they should have time for one week for sound.

 

[Spitty]

I've just read an interview from a well-known spanish website about DriveClub, and one of the most commented things about the game was the in-game sound. According to them, it was SPECTACULAR.

They even had the oportunity to go to a private garage to check out the real cars, like the Berlinetta F12, and then try the same car in the game, and again, they say it was spectacular.

So they recorded the right cars, ok. But that's still no guarantee that they will sound good in the game.
The only way to find out is to play the game, or watch direct feed gameplay with that Ferrari.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

No trolling, but there is nice sounds
there that i havent heard so good anywhere else. So if GT is to go somewhere then i would be happy if they went towards that.

Sounds good to me.

Try project cars, never look back

Also, driveclub have really messed up the zonda r sound

 

[Johnnypenso]

So they recorded the right cars, ok. But that's still no guarantee that they will sound good in the game.
The only way to find out is to play the game, or watch direct feed gameplay with that Ferrari.

Gamersyde HiDef Direct Capture Gameplay for Download

Gamersyde makes videos for all the major racing titles available in HD. What you see is what you get in the game, not a crappy, compressed, YouTube version you usually see. No Ferrari that I can see yet, but there's Maserati, SLS, McLaren etc. there. Download a couple and judge for yourself.

 

[Chippy569]

Try project cars, never look back

Also, driveclub have really messed up the zonda r sound

that exhaust view sounds really broken... hopefully that can be fixed. Sounds like a lot of other weird noise in the loops that aren't pitching well, leaving a swirly or washy "shwhwehwhshsh" sound (really noticeable in that clip when it's off-throttle). Also sounds like the loops themselves were recorded in a very reverberant space, so you have reverb baked into the samples, which is then fed through an environment system for more reverb, which leaves it sounding like i'm driving a youtube video, not immersed in driving a car.

That said, the cockpit sounds really good and I like the little bite of the throttle opening on the shifts when the RPM's line up right. The character sounds really aggressive without being distorted, and the cockpit effect is spot on. I like the mix between the car and tire, although holy hell that radio guy is loud.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That said, the cockpit sounds really good and I like the little bite of the throttle opening on the shifts when the RPM's line up right. The character sounds really aggressive without being distorted, and the cockpit effect is spot on. I like the mix between the car and tire, although holy hell that radio guy is loud.

As far as I know, all the individual sounds are scalable..tires, cockpit radio etc.

 

[scca_ziptie]

I like the cockpit sounds for sure - especially the noise of the brakes, quite realistic.