Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 353,128 views
- 132
this is bs. we are talking about engine sounds, not doppler effects, who cares about those anyway?
drive a v8 in forza and drive one in gt5... there is your difference. if you have crappy samples in gt5 with a glorious doppler effect then where is the use of that?
at the very least forza has the better compromise
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Me, and you should too, because virtually all racing games can't do it right which hurts the sound experience a lot. GT is the only game that has done it convincingly.
Only trouble is, the engine sounds are so bad in GT it really doesn't matter anyway.
And Forza, despite having very good engine sounds overall, fail completely in that area, making the sound experience not nearly what it could have been. Especially in replays.
Agree.
NCRthree
Premium
- 1,797
- Virginia
- ncrthree/GTP_ncrthree
Those distance effects are great. They add greatly to immersion. Makes headphone listening awesome.
I've got no experience with F4's sounds only a couple other PS3 titles one of which was Shift2. I hated the over the top sounds with street cars. Barely got into the game so only used a few starter cars. I laughed at how an unmodified GTI sounded like a full blown race car. Great for the pre-teen and teenager demography.
I understand most GT5 cars have inaccurate sounds and wish that could be addressed. Intake noises etc...Race cars sound too tame for sure. That I get. However I get the feeling that lots of people just want wilder sounds in general.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Can we move on, as others have done you should as well Fastlap. Learn to use the term "other game" like the rest of us, so flame wars don't arise, and learn to use the edit button and stop double posting. I tend to agree with the T10 way, but I also agree there are issues as well, just not as long standing and hair raising as GT. Either way as SimonK put it there is already a GT vs FM and PD has enough issues for this topic to stand alone without comparing to other sim racers.
- 8,723
We shouldn't really be comparing to other games, only to real life. Of course, it is relevant to compare games, but only as long as we bear in mind the differences in approach / method / underlying synthesis scheme. That's generally a bit beyond the understanding of most people, mind you, since nobody actually gives a 🤬 about all that technical stuff...
Whilst Gran Turismo has, in effect, sounded "the same" since about 1999, there have been massive changes to the underlying principles being applied. Although the samples have stayed the same in that time, little else has. GT is moving in a completely different direction from other games, but what's interesting is that, in the long run, it's probably the right direction. The reason I say that is because the fly-by "effects" in GT5 are not effects at all, but a simple product of the way the engine works - it is a simulation. Crisp Doppler-shift swings, transmission delay, filtering and overall mixing are a result of the modeling of the way sound travels, not "hand-drawn" / stylised, triggered effects.
One major issue with any traditional sample-based synthesis system, is that your samples need to be of a certain "base quality" in respect of the range they are meant to work in. For small ranges, samples can be shorter, but for larger ranges (say a whole octave), the sample needs a bit more detail (length) in order to not sound strange when its shifted through its operating range. At the moment, the short, sparse sampling and complete lack of intake mean that the underlying simulation doesn't shine as well as it should.
This does not mean PD need help, it does not mean they should copy other games, and it certainly does not mean that effort has been wasted.
If you consider that PD seem to approach their sound in the same way they do their graphics, but graphics seems to get all the resources it needs and sound generally hasn't, then things should look promising for the PS4.
For GT6, I think the best we should hope for is better allocation of samples so that, in particular, modified sounds are actually reasonably accurate for the engine in question. Also, I'd quite like to be able to choose the samples to use irrespective of the exhaust (/ intake) parts I have (except stock), since it's perfectly possible to tune the sound apart from the performance, to a degree.
Whilst Gran Turismo has, in effect, sounded "the same" since about 1999, there have been massive changes to the underlying principles being applied. Although the samples have stayed the same in that time, little else has. GT is moving in a completely different direction from other games, but what's interesting is that, in the long run, it's probably the right direction. The reason I say that is because the fly-by "effects" in GT5 are not effects at all, but a simple product of the way the engine works - it is a simulation. Crisp Doppler-shift swings, transmission delay, filtering and overall mixing are a result of the modeling of the way sound travels, not "hand-drawn" / stylised, triggered effects.
One major issue with any traditional sample-based synthesis system, is that your samples need to be of a certain "base quality" in respect of the range they are meant to work in. For small ranges, samples can be shorter, but for larger ranges (say a whole octave), the sample needs a bit more detail (length) in order to not sound strange when its shifted through its operating range. At the moment, the short, sparse sampling and complete lack of intake mean that the underlying simulation doesn't shine as well as it should.
This does not mean PD need help, it does not mean they should copy other games, and it certainly does not mean that effort has been wasted.
If you consider that PD seem to approach their sound in the same way they do their graphics, but graphics seems to get all the resources it needs and sound generally hasn't, then things should look promising for the PS4.
For GT6, I think the best we should hope for is better allocation of samples so that, in particular, modified sounds are actually reasonably accurate for the engine in question. Also, I'd quite like to be able to choose the samples to use irrespective of the exhaust (/ intake) parts I have (except stock), since it's perfectly possible to tune the sound apart from the performance, to a degree.
- 1
- greyelements
The acoustics of cars going through a tunnel should be added to GT6! Personally I think the GT series lacks this.
dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
GT5 does already have this feature. Probably it's not that great, but it exists.
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
Honestly...adding new cars is pointless if sound isn't going to be realistic..
- 5,301
- Tijuana, B.C.
- MRT_Cinnamon
And it is never going to be, no game will EVER mimic the same sound of a car just like it's real counterpart, that's something you'll have to learn somehow.
- 534
- Jakarta
- Chiyo_Cute
I agree it's not realistic, but it's still enjoyable especially with large speakers.
I even can still enjoy the engine sound of an old racing game Rad Racer:
- 10,958
- Canada
Pfft, don't for sound along as I can drive, that's all care about but at least update them alittle. T_T
SlowInFastOut
(Banned)
- 194
- United States
you mean ONLY in replays, doppler has no use whatsoever when actually playing the game, i would sooner sacrifice that than listen to ****** vacuum cleaners while driving and hear the same vacuum with doppler effects during the replay. 👎
R5
(Banned)
- 7,527
- Location, Location
Well, think of it like this. The sounds are okay on some cars, and we've all seen the improvements PD can make. But in the time it takes to make the sounds "Perfect" for 1200 cars, they can surely make a few more. Some cars such as the Murcielago SV sound amazing, even though its not realistic. I say tidy them up, but they'll never ever be perfect. Tis only a game after all.
SlowInFastOut
(Banned)
- 194
- United States
The only base quality that matters is the source audio, pitch shifting will leave artifacts regardless, they could easily record each gear to sample the entire range of each which would be ideal, the problem lies in the way they synthesize the rev range, it sounds like the loop length is entirely too short which results in a huge loss of the overall tone and character of the source audio, you can try it by playing any audio through a sampler and changing the loop length so it's shorter and shorter, it will sound a lot like PD's engines, very lifeless and it loses almost all characteristics of the original audio. you can shorten the length to the point where it just becomes a drone or buzzing sound, not hard to figure out where they're going wrong.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,753
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
And it is never going to be, no game will EVER mimic the same sound of a car just like it's real counterpart, that's something you'll have to learn somehow.
So lets just give up trying and replace all the car sounds with someone going "Brummmmmmmmmm"?
It doesn't matter than perfection is not possible, they should be able to get a lot closer than we have right now.
- 3
I wish GT was still relevant but I lost hope as did many when GT5 came out and now it seems GT6 will follow suit. This is iracing and here is a clip of me messing around in a v8 supercar, it literally sounds generations ahead of GT
theofilosz
(Banned)
- 409
- Greece
- the0f1l0s
Very good sounds! I don't know how the original car sounds but I definitely would love hearing those sounds while playing.
light driver
(Banned)
- 216
- Hjørring - Danmark
- light-driver
Eeh I used the dunce emoticon because it looks a bit like me I guess....And to be honest, I didn`t even know what "dunce" mean, I`m overall good in English, but I don`t know every word...So I use it mainly because I like the hat...But after Your latest post, I looked it up in my English wordbook, and it means something like an idiot....That idiot would of course be ME, trying to be clever...(Did You feel it coming Your way?? Sorry...)
The word I tried to spell...I could see that it was not right, but later it came to me the correct one will be "equation" - no l in it...(So Your è wrong too)
But the sound...I have nothing against PD to improve engine sound, BUT if they throw a lot of money in the "sound team" guys, and thereby can`t afford to solve other, according to me, way way way more important things, then it`s a pity....I find my "equation" serves well to pinpoint what I mean...
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- 8,723
Yeah, I said that.
Pitch shifting itself shouldn't really leave artefacts (although practically no-one uses sinc-function "interpolation" for non-native sample-rate playback, but that's probably overkill given the good that power could be used for), it's the blending of the next sample, shifted down, with the current one, shifted up, that does, because of constructive and destructive interference between the samples changing the sound of both.
Besides, pitch shifting samples is just physically wrong, except for Doppler, of course. What some games are doing is a more granular method, a bit like those time stretching effects you get with slow-motion effects in video editors, the ones that just slow the sound down without changing its apparent pitch.
Those are hard to do for general sounds, but since engine sounds are periodic and we know the engine speed, 'cause we're controlling it directly, you can literally play back only a short snippet of the sound, e.g. corresponding to a crank rotation, then repeat it a few times depending on how much "slower" it needs to sound, before moving onto the next snippet. For sped-up sounds, you miss a snippet or two out each time. There's a lot of fiddly technical stuff to avoid harsh clicks etc., but it's workable and a few of the big games use this, DiRT 3 being one for certain, and possibly RRRE.
The problem with that is the engine still sounds wrong in places where it's not sampled, still has sample-blending interference artefacts and potentially complicates the Doppler slightly (I think you just inject that into the snippet playback rate for a given sample, perhaps). I'm yet to work out if you can sidestep the "sounds wrong in places where it's not sampled" issue with a bit of "clever" consideration to the underlying engine configuration for pre-recorded samples, but it's perfectly possible with wholly synthesised sounds (with the problem that the base synthesis isn't easy to get sounding right).
I've also, for a few years now, been messing with a sampling system like LFS has, where you use a single, very short sample that corresponds to a crank rotation, and looping that. You actually have so much more fine control over it that there is no real lack of detail once you start modeling speed fluctuations etc. If you try to flatten the synthesised sound into a sample to be used elsewhere, it sounds awful, though, because that fine control isn't considered in the game, it's just expected to be in the sample (a big part of the reason iRacing sounds so good right now is the minuscule engine speed fluctuations arising from the drivetrain modeling - physical modeling appears to be PD's preferred method, too). You still have interference issues with these short samples, though, but I potentially have a way around that, too...
Given PD's sound guys don't do this in their spare time, and "simulation" is their job title, I'm fairly certain this is the sort of thing they've been "researching" "every day"; they're working on it. Probably not for PS3, mind you.
- 435
- Filip_Ovik
I agree, we need better sounds to the cars, it is just so important at least for me (and probably many others) how the car sounds!
R5
(Banned)
- 7,527
- Location, Location
What I don't get is the "I'm not buying GT6 because of the sounds"... Does it matter that much? GT has never had realistic sounds, neither has Forza, they just sound, as Kazunori-San said "Sexier" and that's what people want. It's hardly a deal breaker like people are making out though.
- 1,535
- Tarragona,Spain
- FOXIOL
To me the sounds in GT are soulless...far far away from "sexier".
Today I was testing the new build of R3E and some updated mods in rFactor 2 with my 5.1, and also testing some different configurations...and wow...blew my mind.
- 27
- Branson, MO
- fpscolonel
- VenomSD
I love GT but i really am hoping for better engine sounds in GT6.
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