Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[dr_slump]

Your signature is the perfect example of Kaz living in a distant universe of strange creatures and infants. In a universe where everything is a playground, were vacuum cleaners are treated like gods.

I mean to make such a sentence from a world known title as Angry birds clearly states that he is either living in his own distant little bubble knowing nothing about the real world or trolling us like hell.

You have problems...

I doubt Kaz is the only person who really likes to play bad piggies. It's actually a very good game and very enjoyable if you like that type of games. It runs pretty good and is made quite well.
Heck, it even got tons of excellent reviews and sells like mad. It was on top of the app store after just 3h.
It only costs one or two dollars or is even available for free.

Many reviews state is as the best mobile game of 2012. Wait, what was your point again?

 

[PepeMickey]

I think that statements that whether PD care or not, or that they are just not competent is just speculation and opinion.

I also think that the statements that sounds are nowhere as good as other games (shift 2, F1's, dirt) is just fact.

I'm not a game developer and have really no idea how games are actually made and programmed or whatever, so excuse my ignorance....what exactly is a 'placeholder' with regard to the sounds?

I'm thinking that a placeholder is just a sample sound that is added to the visuals like a special effect in a movie?

If the above is correct, how come they don't use the sound from a real car to dub over the video/game?

In fact, why don't they just do that for the game itself? Why aren't they recording the sounds from all the real car counterparts that are in the game and using them for the sounds?

It seems simple to me (someone who has no idea how sounds are added or made) that would be the best way to put the sounds in the game.

Or is it not how it's done? Do they have to generate the sounds artificially by writing them as code or something?

I just don't understand why it seems so hard, I would have thought in this day and age, something like adding a realistic sound to a video game (car engine, rifle shot, explosion, dog barking, woman screaming, man farting) would be easy!

Like I say I know nothing of creating sounds in a game, maybe I'm underestimating the process....

Anyway, with the news that pCars is not coming to PS3, a little piece of me died. I'm trying to stay optimistic and I hope PD have made that 'breakthrough', I'm hoping a lot of things for GT6, lets wait and see....

"Place-holder" means that they use an already existing sample from their catalogue until they finish the final one, this is what PCARS has been doing for the comunity to test physics and bugs for the cars first and then just substitute the "place-holder" sample with the final version of the same sample or a completely different one.

Basically, it's just means that a car is not finished yet but since you gotta show it to the world you have to use an emergency sample.

 

[jules283]

I think PD's problem is that they want to create a 'sound' engine.
They don't want to travel all over the world strapping cars to dynamometers and recording them 1200 times!
So, in the same way that they have a physics engine to simulate vehicle handling they want a similar idea for sound.
They want to vary inputs such as ;

No. of cylinders.
OHV or OHC.
Straight cut or helical gears.
Exhaust pipe diameter.
Turbo or Non-turbo.
Cam profile.
Etc.
Etc.

and use software to generate a SIMUATION of the actual sound.

Not an easy project-hence Kaz's hesitation on incusion in GT6 or not.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

You have problems...

I doubt Kaz is the only person who really likes to play bad piggies.

I may have made a fool of myself. Never mind that Bad piggies part.

I think PD's problem is that they want to create a 'sound' engine.
and use software to generate a SIMUATION of the actual sound.
Not an easy project-hence Kaz's hesitation on incusion in GT6 or not.

I think thats actually a good point.

 

[Flamingwaffles]

Quick question. How many of you use "Large cinema(?)" as the sound option rather than the standard one?

Ugh...If we have to go into the game menus to make the sound better that's a problem. And hell, even with the Large Cinema option the sound is still awful, it doesn't fix the super fake digitized sound.

ANY other game out there does better sound than GT. Any and every.

Pretty much this. I wish I could say otherwise, but honestly every racing game with real cars that has been released since 2010 has had better sounds.

I think PD's problem is that they want to create a 'sound' engine.
They don't want to travel all over the world strapping cars to dynamometers and recording them 1200 times!

The thing is it isn't even that complicated to get good sounds. People are acting like this is such a hard task to create realistic engine sounds....but it isn't. I think the problem is the lack of focus on car sounds in general. It's not just the engine sounds that suck, they've been using the same tire sounds since GT3. Remember the GT5 credits, where I believe there were only 2 or 3 people working on the sound? Theres your problem, there isnt enough effort put into it.

 

[Samus]

Also having to use a setting called 'large theatre' or anything other than 'home' in a home environment suggests there is a big problem, surely?

 

[R5]

Also having to use a setting called 'large theatre' or anything other than 'home' in a home environment suggests there is a big problem, surely?

That's true. It also only helps, it doesn't turn it to amazingly amazing sounds.

Still though, I don't mind sounds. I'll say this once again though (Man, twice) sorry for being a jerk on the matter. I'll just silently watch this thread.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The large cinema/theatre mode alters the sound mix composition and dynamic range. The main difference is the music volume gets very low, cockpit view sound considerably lower in volume and chase cam gets higher volume + more alive than small or living room. To feel the difference I use 5.1 setup - DTS. I am sure there's a slight difference with tv speakers or headphone - but they generally don't have enough punch or dB to make large setting stand out.

I just drove stock exhaust Dodge Challenger with large cinema + chase cam in a race at Monza - 5.1 DTS, cranked the volume on my AVR to -20dB, the idle rumble, low rev burble and high rev noise are all different than with living room or small cinema settings. An improvement for sure as the noise assaulted my ears

 

[RACECAR]

Is this one of those things where your four year old's finger painting isn't a work of art, but you love it because they made it just for you?

No it isn't and you are missing my point.

This isn't the world of fairies and rainbows. These guys are professionals. They don't get a free pass just because they tried really hard and still failed.

Where exactly am I giving them a "Free pass"? Did you miss the part where I said I've complained before about their decisions? If I was that daft and willing to give a "Free pass", I wouldn't complain nor acknowledge the issues.

Also, the "the world of Fairies" part wasn't necessary and it comes off as you needing to insult me to get a point across, something I have not felt compelled to do.

Frankly, there's fairly solid evidence that PD sound engineers do NOT care enough to motivate them to produce a premium product. GT5. If you've got evidence that they do care or that something else is going on that is stopping them, by all means share with us.

This is solid proof, or only examples of poor execution that have been turned into "Lack of Care" by people who are bitter (the same crowd who invented the idiotic "Vaccuum" joke)? I'm not gonna make the bold claim of "evidence" as you appear to be doing but PD deciding to just now working with a real world companies to improve various aspects has me thinking that it was more the matter of them unable to do it internally and finally deciding to improve various aspects with outside help. Care doesn't always equal Quality results and it hasn't always been the case. I don't say this as someone handing out "Free passes", I say this as someone who's seen it first hand (not PD specifically).

We'll just have to agree to disagree because clearly we're going circles at this point and have no meeting point. I'll just continue to question all this while waiting and seeing what happens.

 

[Eks]

The way I see it is this - sound isn't a high enough priority for PD. Not as high as it should be, at least.

 

[R5]

The way I see it is this - sound isn't a high enough priority for PD. Not as high as it should be, at least.

I'm forced to agree. It was excusable in GT3, hell maybe GT4.

(I'm hoping to get GT4 soon. CAN'T. WAIT. :3)

 

[jules283]

GTP: Are the engine sounds that we hear in the demo representative of what we will hear in the final game?

KY: “No, those are just in there as sound effects.”

GTP: So we will see some changes in that area?

KY: “Actually, we are doing research right now to generate the sounds in a completely different way. I’m not sure if it is actually going to make it into GT6 in time yet, but we’ll have to see.”

Note the last quote by Kaz -" in a completely different way "

This is why I think PD are building a sound generator/engine as mentioned in my earlier post.

 

[PepeMickey]

Funny, he said the same about GT5...

 

[TokoTurismo]

Funny, he said the same about GT5...

Funny. Where excatly did he say that before? I keep hearing it but no source?

 

[Eks]

Funny. Where excatly did he say that before? I keep hearing it but no source?

I don't doubt that he did, but I am wondering the same thing. Haven't seen exactly where he said this.

 

[FLEXOFFENDER]

Funny. Where excatly did he say that before? I keep hearing it but no source?

You would know if you've been following the series like most of us here.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I don't doubt that he did, but I am wondering the same thing. Haven't seen exactly where he said this.

Yeah excatly. They say Kaz said it before but where is the proof of him saying that?

You would know if you've been following the series like most of us here.

Well I have been following the series for a while now (ever since from GT2 ) so I would know.

It's just that these guys and even that King guy saids Kaz said somewhere he was going to fix the engine sounds in GT5, or at least when it was first announced? Okay, so wheres the proof of him saying that? I'm just thinking those guys were just talking out of their 🤬 if they can't even provided any proof. I'm not defending or anything but I've waited for days and still they given no source...

And because they haven't, I'm going to say these sounds from the demo are PLACEHOLDERS, period. Like Samus has said, we should wait and see (well hear ) at release, which imo is a really smart decision instead of arguing.

 

[Imari]

And because they haven't, I'm going to say these sounds from the demo are PLACEHOLDERS, period. Like Samus has said, we should wait and see (well hear ) at release, which imo is a really smart decision instead of arguing.

I dunno. If the sounds in the GT Academy release haven't changed I'd say that's fairly strong evidence that nothing major is going to happen.

One does not simply pull an entire sound system out of their rectal passage in three months. Not for 1200 cars.

There's always the potential that the full release will be different, but I feel that they're quickly approaching the time that no major new tech is going to make it into the game.

From what I know, games go gold about a month before release to give time for pre-production, so obviously no changes after that. You probably want a couple of months of solid QA before that, where the only changes made would be squashing bugs. If you're still adding features in QA, you're making the job impossible.

So say they're aiming for a release a week before Christmas, which is about as late as they could sensibly leave it. The last date to actually add something would then be about mid-September? They'd have two and a bit months from now to do whatever they're going to do.

If the demo is still the same, the best we could hope for is some sort of overarching generic patch to the sounds. A bit like the melty bumper damage model, something that just generically modifies what they have now. They couldn't possibly have time to redo any substantial amount of samples. One car in Forza 4 took about three days to patch samples together, from memory.

And even if they're working on simulating the engine, that's still going to take time per car to set exhaust and intake lengths, echo chambers, baffles, and everything else that could modify the sound. Maybe it's faster, but 1200 cars.

Honestly, I think it's GTA or bust.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I dunno. If the sounds in the GT Academy release haven't changed I'd say that's fairly strong evidence that nothing major is going to happen.

One does not simply pull an entire sound system out of their rectal passage in three months. Not for 1200 cars.

There's always the potential that the full release will be different, but I feel that they're quickly approaching the time that no major new tech is going to make it into the game.

From what I know, games go gold about a month before release to give time for pre-production, so obviously no changes after that. You probably want a couple of months of solid QA before that, where the only changes made would be squashing bugs. If you're still adding features in QA, you're making the job impossible.

So say they're aiming for a release a week before Christmas, which is about as late as they could sensibly leave it. The last date to actually add something would then be about mid-September? They'd have two and a bit months from now to do whatever they're going to do.

If the demo is still the same, the best we could hope for is some sort of overarching generic patch to the sounds. A bit like the melty bumper damage model, something that just generically modifies what they have now. They couldn't possibly have time to redo any substantial amount of samples. One car in Forza 4 took about three days to patch samples together, from memory.

And even if they're working on simulating the engine, that's still going to take time per car to set exhaust and intake lengths, echo chambers, baffles, and everything else that could modify the sound. Maybe it's faster, but 1200 cars.

Honestly, I think it's GTA or bust.

That was a nice read I've gotten. 👍 I do agree with you saying working on simulating the sounds is going to take time, especially with 1200+ cars. Maybe that's why Kaz said he isn't sure if the new sounds will make it in time for GT6's release?

The GTA demo sounds, I'm not to sure but I'm thinking it'll like the ones from the E3 demo.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Oh, I wonder how GTA will sound.

 

[DiVz]

The BMW sounds are terrible, and so is that whining sound you get from driving in cockpit view, even with stock transmission

 

[Jav]

I dunno. If the sounds in the GT Academy release haven't changed I'd say that's fairly strong evidence that nothing major is going to happen.

One does not simply pull an entire sound system out of their rectal passage in three months. Not for 1200 cars.

There's always the potential that the full release will be different, but I feel that they're quickly approaching the time that no major new tech is going to make it into the game.

From what I know, games go gold about a month before release to give time for pre-production, so obviously no changes after that. You probably want a couple of months of solid QA before that, where the only changes made would be squashing bugs. If you're still adding features in QA, you're making the job impossible.

So say they're aiming for a release a week before Christmas, which is about as late as they could sensibly leave it. The last date to actually add something would then be about mid-September? They'd have two and a bit months from now to do whatever they're going to do.

If the demo is still the same, the best we could hope for is some sort of overarching generic patch to the sounds. A bit like the melty bumper damage model, something that just generically modifies what they have now. They couldn't possibly have time to redo any substantial amount of samples. One car in Forza 4 took about three days to patch samples together, from memory.

And even if they're working on simulating the engine, that's still going to take time per car to set exhaust and intake lengths, echo chambers, baffles, and everything else that could modify the sound. Maybe it's faster, but 1200 cars.

Honestly, I think it's GTA or bust.

There is really no excuse for the morons at PD to get the sounds on the demo wrong. They already have decent enough sound samples to use on the cars that will be featured there, of course they are far from perfect but would definitely be an improvement if they managed to give every car the correct sound sample...

 

[MisterWhiskers]

I just want the sounds to sound like the ones in Drive Club. They are amazing!

 

[PepeMickey]

^This, if they don't even use suitable samples for the cars featured in the demo then it will be obvious that they don't give a damn, GT6 will be just as bad.

 

[finnracer]

The BMW sounds are terrible, and so is that whining sound you get from driving in cockpit view, even with stock transmission

Although it is a GT3 car, so it will have a racing transmission with straight cut gears as standard! Do agree the engine sound needs work though.

 

[PIP_36]

Thanks RattijuoppoFIN & pepeMickey for taking the time to explain about the real sounds and placeholders.

I'm pretty sure PD would have no shortage of volunteers if they put out a request to the GT community for them to bring their cars to them for a recording session... The fans would have a great day out and PD get free cars to sample...and we get real car sounds!

If only it were that easy...

 

[MisterWhiskers]

This is how the V6s should sound like :

 

[Jav]

This is how the V6s should sound like :

Not all V6 engines sound like that though, but they do have some good V6 samples that are good enough for that and the V6 cars we will see on the Demo, right now the sample being used on the Nismo GT-R GT3 is a stupid mix that does not belong in any car, they need to drop that crap and use any of the original GT-R racing exhaust samples used in GT5 for that car.

 

[RACECAR]

Off-Topic but am I the only one that finds the Ghibli just terrible looking?

 

[Filip_Ovik]

I agree, better sound from the cars would raise the quality of the game a lot! With a good ans realistic sound, I can just drive the cars in free run enjoying both the quality of the image and the sound